WLinux, the First Paid-for Linux Distro for Windows 10, Goes On Sale on Microsoft Store (techrepublic.com) 207
puddingebola shares a report: WLinux is a $20 open-source, Debian-based distribution, designed to run on Windows 10's Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). The WSL allows Windows 10 to run various GNU/Linux distros inside Windows as Microsoft Store apps, providing access to Ubuntu, openSUSE, Debian, Fedora, Kali Linux, and others. The WSL has disadvantages over a running a dedicated GNU/Linux system. For example, there's no official support for desktop environments or graphical applications, and I/O performance bottlenecks, but it is being improved over time. The developers of WLinux describe it as a "fast Linux terminal environment for developers", saying it is the first distribution to be "pre-configured and optimized to run specifically on Windows Subsystem for Linux". Announcing WLinux's availability, Microsoft program manager Tara Raj, called out the wlinux-setup tool, "which allows users to easily set up common developer toolchains, and removes unsupported features like systemd."
Hell just froze over (Score:5, Insightful)
Did Microsoft just release a Linux distro without systemd?
Up is down and black is white, the world has gone mad.
Re:Hell just froze over (Score:5, Informative)
While the other distros have systemd in the repository, it doesn't actually run under WSL.
So while this one is unambiguously systemd-free, the other distros are effectively systemd-free while under WSL.
Working around the systemd-isms without being able to run systemd has been a big part of the whole WSL endeavor.
Open source? (Score:3)
So how easy to pull the source and compile it? Save $20!
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Actually, I use 'links' for that.... I didn't even know that lynx was still around!
I still also like the text-based, no javascript, browser for checking out suspicious links in e-mail to see, for example, if it is a credential capture attack or a download/other attack vector.
Re:Hell just froze over (Score:4, Informative)
Actually, I use 'links' for that....
No, no. The OTHER stupid router :p
But seriously, Lynx is better for security because it doesn't support graphics and it can white/black list cookies, or totally disable cookies altogether. Lynx is still being developed, so don't forget about it.
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Also, if you are using a shitty network route to reach a cross-globe website, and you don't care about graphics, Lynx can be blazingly fast.
Re:Hell just froze over YOTLD!!!!! (Score:2)
Year Of The LINUX Desktop!!!
Brought to you by your good friends at Microsoft!!
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Year Of The LINUX Desktop!!!
Brought to you by your good friends at Microsoft!!
Just without the Linux bit.
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Nope, this is the beginning of the end of Windows.
Yeah yeah, Year of the Linux Desktop is coming. Been hearing that for the better part of 3 decades now.
Now Windows has Linux running in it.
No it doesn't. All of these "Linux distributions" running on WSL in Windows are precisely not Linux at all, they are the distributions with Linux stripped out. Linux is an operating system kernel, WSL enables applications built to run on the Linux kernel to instead run on the Windows kernel.
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Some mods have no sense of humour it seems.
It's not Linux if the Linux Kernel is not being ru (Score:4, Insightful)
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there is no VM
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what a load of nonsense that article is. i mean, sure it's 'GNU/Windows' technically. but the whole 'it has nothing to do with Linux' thing is ridiculous - it's emulating Linux syscall functionality with high-enough fidelity to run a large percentage of Ubuntu (or whatever distro's) user-mode code. it's not emulating BSD or Solaris. it's emulating Linux. besides, it doesn't need to run GNU software at all, it's a kernel emulation layer - you could have init run anything.
and the whole bashing MS out of the s
Re:Hell just froze over (Score:4, Informative)
No, they certainly did not.
Others may be confused over what WSL is, so it's worth repeating. No init system of any kind (sysv or systemd) make any sense in the WSL as it's currently designed. Windows itself is the init system for WSL. The Window kernel and the WSL is process 1 (calls itself init in the emulated Linux process list) and spawns linux binaries directly.
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And we now have just heard from a kinder, gentler Linus Torvaldis.
Your phone is ringing.
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Did Microsoft just release a Linux distro without systemd?
No, Microsoft did not release this. It was released by Whitewater Foundry, apparently independent.
Re:Hell just froze over (Score:4, Insightful)
1) Embrace...
I believe you know the rest
Ooh, I know this one!
2) FUD
The WSL has a very limited use case. It is not going to suddenly become the defacto way that we use Linux, and therefore will never be in a position to extinguish anything any more than Windows Services for UNIX [wikipedia.org] killed it off and any more than WINE has killed off Windows.
anti-gateway drug (Score:3)
first, Microsoft is pretty much aware that they've lost the server/cloud game to linux (and router. and embed. and smartphones. and SBC. basically, desktop/workstation is the single niche that Microsoft is still holding)
BUT they know they hold the desktop, and would very much to keep holding it.
some of the logic going in the heads of microsoft is that wsl can be a bit of anti-gateway drug.
for all these devs, who have a mostly windows environment but need a bit of unix in their workflow. (devs that need to w
Re:anti-gateway drug (Score:4, Informative)
basically, desktop/workstation is the single niche that Microsoft is still holding)
Not true in north america at least.
They are still a major player for email servers through exchange server. https://www.quora.com/What-is-... [quora.com]
They still have one of the best on premise server OS with over 70% of the market cornered: https://www.computerprofile.co... [computerprofile.com]
They are remaining strong in the virtualization server area with about 35% of the market. Note their market share of this was 0% until 2008 so 35% is not bad.
They still have the best office suite available for corporate use. Home use is a different story but that could be debated either way.
some of the logic going in the heads of microsoft is that wsl can be a bit of anti-gateway drug
Opinion more than fact. They actually believe in providing the tools required to do the job. As a multi platform developer I appreciate the ability to create Linux environments in my environment of choice.
the problem (for them, but advantage for us) is that it might end up the other way around:
You make it an "us versus them" argument. I don't understand why any tech professional would think that way. Maybe you're just a kid that hasn't been in the real world yet. If so, you've already closing your mind to a number of possibilities.
Microsoft devs (Score:2)
If you're a professional developer, and you prefer Windows, you're not a professional developer.
I would think about two categories :
- Game dev, either targeting Windows or XBox as main platforms, and not giving much fucks about server-side code, or about cross platform ports (with these handled by other devs in the crew, and thus definitely the kind that will need to run some linux tests once every blue moon and thus target for wsl)
- Legacy dev, stuck maintaining horrendous in-house custom apps that where designed before web apps were all the rage (I suspect that one day, the various V
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Even the cloud servers running Linux are just hosting Microsoft Azure services for the most part. All .NET based, you don't touch the underlying Linux stuff, e.g. no filesystem or case sensitivity issues etc. All development done on Windows in Visual Studio.
At least that's how it was explained to me.
extend part (Score:2)
The "extend" part is what is technically impossible to achieve.
This strategy has been successful in the past in killing competitor, by having microsoft releasing a proprorietary variation with their own incompatible microsoftian twists inside. (Think Microsoft's flavor of Java).
This is what enabled to flow into the "extinguish" part (Microsoft manages to become the "default go-to" provider for that either because "nobody got fired for buying Microsoft" (as a variation of the previous generation's IBM memes)
Re:Hell just froze over (Score:4, Funny)
It ends with extinguish. First used over 20 years ago, used to describe microsoft's approach to a wealth of product categories (browser, email, messaging, java ... the list goes on) none of which it managed to extinguish (and at a managerially distinct Microsoft for all intents and purposes.)
The people who are overly concerned with it don't seem to really know their tech history and/or are giving Microsoft a lot of credit it hasn't earned in 20 years of trying.
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baddly functioning clones (Score:2)
... DOS which had horribly buggy implementation of the add-ons!
Microsoft mostly managed to kill markets by turning people off with their horrendous reimplementations.
People default to Microsoft's built-in. Said built-in catastrophically blows up on them. People decide to abandon the technology.
Microsoft is happy to have gotten rid of a competitot (but technology stagnates).
see: Stacker vs. DoubleSpace/DriveSpace for an exemple.
there are numerous others.
some might wonder if the horrible quality of Internet
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some might wonder if the horrible quality of Internet Explorer wasn't actually an attempt to kill the whole internet in the same way
Some people who have comically distorted senses of proportion and perception might, sure.
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... DOS which had horribly buggy implementation of the add-ons!
Nothing ever stopped you from using the alternatives.
some might wonder if the horrible quality of Internet Explorer wasn't actually an attempt to kill the whole internet in the same way.
The alternative to that was Navigator, which was horrendous and by the time we got to Navigator 4 it was almost completely unusable and just like IE it included its own non-standard extensions that led to the same sort of "Best Viewed with Netscape" banners that we saw with IE. IE was never a good browser but it was still the least worse.
If Netscape had won the browser wars we would never have had a Firefox and instead browsers would be a paid add-on with
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IANAL
Not really a revelation there. How does any of that relate to the topic at all? Windows doesn't ship with any of this, it's an application that runs atop it just like any other application. Just because you run a GPLv3 program on Windows doesn't suddenly make Microsoft beholden to the terms of the license of the program you chose to run.
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What crack are you smoking?
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he's right. there's no Linux kernel in WSL.
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He didn't say WSL.
Re: Hell just froze over (Score:2)
Okay... so what is he talking about that _does_ have a Linux kernel in it?
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A Linux distro for Windows vms called Wlinux.
Why pay? (Score:3)
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I'd say if these guys are providing a service that further avoids switching environments back and forth, maybe it's worth it.
The real question is: why isn't the FOSS community making such tools or preparing distros like these? If there's gimp, Open/LibreOffice among other FOSS apps for Windows, and they have a solid user base and provide necessary functionality for the community (which gives back), why is the FOSS community allowing this niche, but each day more meaningful scenario left to business players
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FOSS is staying cautiously away, as this WSL thing is relatively new. Soon enough someone will decide they want to script the install, and then share it. And the project is born.
Neck, why haven't you started it if you think it's that important?
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There is a tool called "LxRunOffline" that lets you manage WSL distributions outside of the Windows store.
You can run debootstrap, chroot and tar to generate a Debian or Ubuntu image for WSL. It turns out a little bigger than the ones from the Windows Store, but it does work.
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I'd say if these guys are providing a service that further avoids switching environments back and forth, maybe it's worth it
I think the point the GP was making was that openSUSE and Ubuntu for example already run in WSL and provide precisely that functionality.
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maybe you should consider countries and communities where, considering scenarios piracy is not applicable such as government as education, there is still a need for office an productivity suite but there isn't 200 fucking usd/eur/gbp for a standard office license. Get your thinking out of your developed economy bubble and you might actually figure these apps get used. A lot.
And for reference, I use libreoffice all the time for minor, in-Linux edits or scratches that prevent me booting Windows (where my empl
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I take it you haven't used it in a LONG time.
It used to be slow, but the recent versions are way fast.
Don't know what bugs you are talking about, so can't comment on that. I don't run into any.
The UI used to be kind of plain, but now there's several to choose from, even one that emulates that horrid MS Office Ribbon.
Libre only sounds gay when combined with Nacho.
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Open/LibreOffice. That thing sucks big time. Is there anyone who really uses it?
Just a hundred million people or more? Nobody knows for sure but there are over a million downloads per month just from the LibreOffice site and that would be nearly all Windows users because Linux users get it from their distros. It is also widely offered by freeware download sites, I would never risk that but I understand it's perfectly normal for a Windows user.
LibreOffice is really great, gives you everything you need in a productivity suite plus gets better all the time with unlimited upgrades includin
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"One reason Windows needs this is programming. Windows has significant difficulties that OSS solves."
Derp...
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hey, some pleople always thing:
if you pay for it, it is better than the free version ... go figure!! :D
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err... need to sleep!
s/pleople/people/
s/thing/think/
MS please consider to sell laptop without windows (Score:2)
Why not call it "Winux" (Score:3)
At least that's pronounceable.
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Can't have that, sounds too slick.
Re:Why not call it "Winux" (Score:4, Funny)
Why not call it "VILE": Vile Is not a Linux Emulator.
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Linux on windows (Score:3)
Is the same as doing heart surgery in the hospital toilet. It can work in theory, but you end up swimming in shit.
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This comment brought to you by ignorance. But we can provide the same thought process in reverse: Why would anyone run Linux or Unix? I don't understand it, I won't research it, but from what I have seen the only thing it has ever done for us is let the dinosaurs out in Jurassic Park.
First, I don't think so (Score:2)
Not the first, far from it. There have been various paid-for boxed set Linux offerings, including Xandros, Suse [opensuse.org] and even Red Hat before they went all weak kneed on the desktop.
Possibly the most successful? Well, the price is right. I seem to recall Xandros was $200 at the time. I can see numerous Windows users who previously swallowed the company line of Linux as cancer doing a 180 at this point for a tryout. Whether Microsoft is sincere in offering a polished product or whether their real goal is to make L
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Oh I see. No box. $20 for a download, that's pretty rich, but maybe it's just normal for Windows victims.
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It's a WSL distribution designed to be well integrated and useful for the group of people who use WSL (Mostly people developing on Windows who need, or can benefit from running Linux applications locally in a container with relatively unfettered access to their operating system- including sharing network interfaces, including localhost)
No one is being victimized.
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Should there be a $20 fee to download Libreoffice? Seems to be about the same argument you just made.
What's with the "sigh"? To show how smart you are? You must be a fun guy at the watercooler.
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A fee for built FOSS projects isn't abnormal these days.
The "sigh" was in response to your snarky tone.
As for showing how smart I am, overt demonstrations aren't really necessary when interacting with you.
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The "sigh" was in response to your snarky tone.
And your patronizing tone gets a pass according to you. Feeling a bit sorry for anybody who knows you IRL.
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what value does this offer above, say, Ubuntu on WSL?
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Is it worth $20? I suppose that's up to the buyer.
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Good for you, answering posts on Slashdot. But posting as Anonymous sends the wrong message, even if you do sign the post.
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Users do not pay $1500+ for Oracle tweaks to Centos, those are all available under open source licenses with no added restrictions on the binaries. Instead, users pay Oracle for support and related services like bug tracking. So what are users buying when they buy Wlinux? Traditionally, "selling" Linux involved just charging for the media. But if Wlinux is just a download then the media cost is nearly zero. So what is the buyer buying for their $20?
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Microsoft 'sells' linux on their store for $0.
this is not that. this is some guy trying to make a quick buck.
Promo for Mono (Score:2)
Given who is running the Linux section at Microsoft, old Xamarin retreads, it's a safe bet that there will be a shit-ton of promo for Mono build in, with a view to getting Windows Linux users hooked on DOT.NET.
Naturally, expecting a bunch of slimy tricks. It's Microsoft after all, and some Linux turncoats.
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OK, corrected about the relationship between Wlinux and Microsoft. So there is nothing stopping you from offering a desktop like KDE, except maybe that would annoy Microsoft?
No thanks (Score:2)
I will stick to the free versions. don't need windows at all.
I have linux on all of my computers. over the years I may have had one computer that either dual boot or just windows" just in case." but for the last couple of years I have not needed windows except to make sure it was updated so it is now gone.
Tried visual studio code editor (Score:2)
Downloaded Microsoft's proprietary, heavily restricted build of this editor [github.com] which Microsoft suggests is an editor for wlinux. WTF? Doesn't run in text mode. But wlinux is text mode only. WTF.
And this is written in javascript. Again. WTF? Takes a full second to start up. Seriously, WTF?
Is this what it's always like in Microsoft land? I don't miss it a bit.
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How can it possible take 1 second to start Visual Studio Code editor every single time? How could anything possibly so slow? Do you have any idea the depth of crappyness that this indicates? I suppose you don't.
An editor written in Bash would be faster.
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yeah, i sit around all day just closing and opening my text editors. i wish they would open quicker, i would save _so_ much time.
let me know when your bash-based editor reaches feature-parity with vscode. i can't wait (another second).
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Anybody who codes anything in node.js is an idiot. It's just one huge steaming pile of crap. But javascript hacks don't know anything else so they chant themselves into a lather believing it doesn't suck. But it does, and javascript hacks don't know that because they don't know anything else.
Re: Tried visual studio code editor (Score:2)
Ah. Youâ(TM)re one of those.
Re:I wonder who will buy it (Score:5, Interesting)
This was my impression. I use MacOS with Windows in a VM. I don't have a Linux VM because I have so many other systems that I can ssh into and do stuff either from the shell or an X app.
But if Windows were my primary operating system and I wanted to use Linux, I don't see why a Linux VM wouldn't be better than this halfway solution.
Re:I wonder who will buy it (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I wonder who will buy it (Score:4, Informative)
Exactly. Installing VirtualBox with any of the great Linux distros works like a charm. I almost don't understand why would someone pay for this crippled solution.
Because it's faster and better in certain scenario's to do it like this.
Faster because:
A. To start it up, it's one click or one word away from a CLI. Virtualbox needs to be installed, spun up, wait till it's booted or restored, and taking up a truckload of RAM and CPU power. Just for running a simple command line tool. VB is total overkill when all you need is a simple CLI tool.
B. The executable runs natively. There's no virtualization overhead. This means full or better speed for execution and network (and other i/o) access.
Also, it works right on your own filesystem. No need for a 'shared folder' with you VM. Your drives are available as-is. And so are your gnu tools. So i can do anything with my files i want, no matter where they reside, without the hassle of copying them around to this shared-with-VM-folder.
Then, as far as security goes.. A VM not really adds any security here, i trust my ubuntu (or whatever) distro the same as on any native linux box. Why would i want to virtualize my gnu/linux environment.
There's other reasons as well, probably others will fill you in here. But to me just the ease and the speed are saving my sanity. Running anything in a VM still sux, even in 2018.
You can also reverse the argument, and compare it with using wine on gnu/linux. That's a pretty fair comparison as WSL and wine actually work in a very similar way. Yes, you could run anything you run with wine in a VM. Sometimes you even have to. But you'd rather not, for various reasons, but mostly because wine usually performs better and is less hassle.
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I don't want a another desktop environment when i already got one and don't need one. And i never said 'development' although there it gots is uses too. I said 'gnu tools'.
WSL is actually what makes using W10 a bearable experience. I'd almost say it's a game changer. I would prefer using gnu/linux altogether. But when stuck on windows 10 it's just great to have all the command line tools available as fast as native. (and if you bother to set up a x server even a lot of gui tools). I don't get all the hate o
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> WSL is for people that don't have the balls to use anything but Windows
LOL!
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I haven't tried it yet, but my understanding is that it's relatively lightweight compared to running a VM, and it has direct access to your Windows filesystem. I used to use Cygwin to run a script to resize my photos, I could see this being used in a similar way.
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This particular product simplifies the installation and setup. You're paying for convenience. With cloud services using Windows and Linux boxes, having both available as dev environments without having to dual boot is nice, and an installer that does most everything for you is nice.
I plan to install my own choice of distro, but many people don't be comfortable doing that. And yes that means they probably should not be doing cross platform development.
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You're paying for convenience.
You're paying to download it directly from the developer. Nothing stops you from getting a copy from your friend, which is perfectly legal and might be even more convenient.
They would probably be better off with a pay what you want model.
Re:I wonder who will buy it (Score:4, Informative)
I use Cygwin, but not on Windows 10 because I use WSL for that. Cygwin and WSL are very similar - the difference is the level they interface at. Cygwin is a translation layer between POSIX (or really SUS) APIs and the Win32 API. As far as Windows is concerned, every Cygwin application is just a console Win32 application.
WSL is lower level, and basically implements the Linux syscall interface on the Windows kernel. So applications talk to Linux based libraries which make system calls as Linux would expect, except they're being trapped by the Windows kernel and executed there. They are not technically Win32 applications and don't really have the interactions with Win32 that Cygwin applications would have. This would be the closest to "GNU/kWindows" you can get
Note that the Windows kernel is still enforcing security and other things, so WSL cannot be used to bypass permissions since the kernel is still involved with regular enforcements.
WSL is actually more like the BSD Linux personality - where the base kernel pretends to be Linux to run Linux binaries.
Not an odd choice... very useful (Score:2)
I use Cygwin, but not on Windows 10 because I use WSL for that. Cygwin and WSL are very similar - the difference is the level they interface at. Cygwin is a translation layer between POSIX (or really SUS) APIs and the Win32 API. As far as Windows is concerned, every Cygwin application is just a console Win32 application.
WSL is lower level, and basically implements the Linux syscall interface on the Windows kernel. So applications talk to Linux based libraries which make system calls as Linux would expect, except they're being trapped by the Windows kernel and executed there. They are not technically Win32 applications and don't really have the interactions with Win32 that Cygwin applications would have. This would be the closest to "GNU/kWindows" you can get
Note that the Windows kernel is still enforcing security and other things, so WSL cannot be used to bypass permissions since the kernel is still involved with regular enforcements.
WSL is actually more like the BSD Linux personality - where the base kernel pretends to be Linux to run Linux binaries.
I find this interesting because I am an long-time linux user but work at a windows shop. When we needed to edit large (5MM row) csv files, people were trying to open them in Excel. I installed msys64 and using vi and other gnu tools sed/awk/cut/etc. I was able to quickly edit their files to do what they needed. Later on I wrote a shell script to take inputs and generate the csv files... and it was soooooo slow. It was faster to ssh to my home machine, run the script there, zip up the csvs, and send them
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We are unfortunately required to maintain a few Windows servers for certain software suites, and WSL has been a dream come-true in being able to get our standard Linux instrumentation, monitoring, and automation working.
That and using konsole via Xming instead of cmd.exe or powershell's interface window is worth any fucking overhead.
Bussinesses and people re-implementing other stack (Score:2)
People who don't want to screw around often buy commercially supported software. If you are going to run a windows shop the techs you hire are (eventually) going to know WLinux if they know any Linux. Likewise if you use Azure and purchase a configuration you know will just work well because microsoft will make sure it does.
And finally people who want re-implement some stack that is already working on WLINUX. it's cheap.
Eventually however I think the log game is IBM is going to move into the Azure linux
Re: I wonder who will buy it (Score:3)
Youâ(TM)re confusing WSL (which is Microsoftâ(TM)s system for running Linux distros on windows without using the Linux kernel) with WLinix which is a 3rd-party district that runs on WSL.
WSL is definitely worth it - itâ(TM)s free and the convenience/compatibility trade off is excellent. Sure, youâ(TM)ll need to run a VM if you need to test explicitly Linux kernel stuff like systems or iptables (for example), but for almost everything else, it just rocks. I use it all the time at work.
WLin
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Youâ(TM)re is Microsoftâ(TM)s
OK JarJar, when Naboo gets a Microsoft Store, get back to us.
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huh?
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You know, as funny as that was on your end, we actually can't even see you and so we missed the entire physical comedy routine and only saw the word "huh?"
Sorry JarJar, internet is hard, I know. Keep trying, you'll get it.
Re: I wonder who will buy it (Score:2)
Whatever, troll. Nice try.
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You laugh but over on Coder Radio, Mike (one of the hosts) has mentioned several times that he's having increasing difficulties hiring people with real Linux experience because most of his young college-age applicants say, oh yes I have Linux experience, but it turns out it's just playing with Ubuntu in WSL. When it comes to actually installing Linux on bare hardware, as his work requires, they are clueless. This is increasingly becoming the norm, and this is by design. MS recognizes the value that Linux
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> Not a bad strategy either. And it could backfire on them as whe some users get enough experience in WSL, it's easier for them to try the real thing at some point because it will be familiar to them. Especially the command-line aspects of Linux, which the WSL focuses on.
Would that really be a backfire? Windows doesn't represent that much of their revenue any more, a huge portion of their revenue comes from subscriptions. They get revenue from people running Linux on Azure. They get revenue from the sale
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As long as you had a WSL-compatible *userspace* init, setting up other basic userspace interfaces as expected, the said distro would run flawlessly on a Linux kernel as well with zero binary modification.
I love it when people have no idea what the fuck they're talking about.
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WLinux is a scam. WSL is the windows subsystem for linux.
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reasons to run windows:
1) windows applications
2) windows development
3) a desktop environment that doesn't suck
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MS is not charging you $20 for this. Microsoft's WSL (with ubuntu, debian, suse, etc...) is free ($0). this WLinux crap is someone else charging for something that _should_ be free.