Linux Now Dominates Azure (zdnet.com) 160
An anonymous reader shares a report: Three years ago, Mark Russinovich, CTO of Azure, Microsoft's cloud program, said, "One in four [Azure] instances are Linux." Then, in 2017, it was 40 percent Azure virtual machines (VM) were Linux. Today, Scott Guthrie, Microsoft's executive vice president of the cloud and enterprise group, said in an interview, "Slightly over half of Azure VMs are Linux. That's right. Microsoft's prize cloud, Linux, not Windows Server, is now the most popular operating system. Windows Server isn't going to be making a come back. Every month, Linux goes up," Guthrie said. And it's not just Azure users who are turning to Linux.
"Native Azure services are often running on Linux," Guthrie added. "Microsoft is building more of these services. For example, Azure's Software Defined Network (SDN) is based on Linux." It's not just on Azure that Microsoft is embracing Linux. "Look at our simultaneous release of SQL Server on Linux. All of our projects now run on Linux," Guthrie said.
"Native Azure services are often running on Linux," Guthrie added. "Microsoft is building more of these services. For example, Azure's Software Defined Network (SDN) is based on Linux." It's not just on Azure that Microsoft is embracing Linux. "Look at our simultaneous release of SQL Server on Linux. All of our projects now run on Linux," Guthrie said.
If only (Score:2, Funny)
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The reality is that even internal to MS, Windows Server was always thought of as a glorified file server, not an application server. Applications were supposed to run on the main desktop OS and link back to either files or a database, but true multi-user networked applications were anathema to Windows desktop sales and the whole .Net runtime idea. The heavy lifting was local, and the network resources were light. Now, what choice to you have with Azure? You can't run applications locally, so that "advan
Re:If only (Score:4, Informative)
https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]
Maybe not so if you're allergic to filling out forms, but it seems not to care very much about the information provided. It has long been possible to do this, even without MSDN or Technet. Sometimes the evaluation disks are distributed with learning material, also.
Regarding development, Windows Professional versions typically meet all of the requirements, unless you're trying to interact with stuff that simply does not exist in consumer Windows versions.
Re: If only (Score:2, Insightful)
It's a lot less trivial than downloading a Centos .iso, and as you mentioned it's only good for a few months.
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MS will not match this.
No, they wont and can't. What they're trying to do is pollute the apt-get sources with sqlserver/powershell.
It's not catching on. They're pivoting on python, I've noticed a great deal of their new software is not written in powershell. Poweshell is worse for windows than php was for linux.
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The other comment is mine, (I was wondering why it wanted a captcha) I was going to add that while you can import .Net system calls into Powershell, it's a scripting language, it's not language to be compiled, either with a CLR or into binaries.
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Powershell is bash equivalent.
That's subjective. I've spent a lot of time with powershell, more than I want, it does not come close to bash, it is a weak slow and inconsistent language.
The problem with bash is that you can only pipe strings, which works great under Linux, but sucks for Windows as internally in Windows it's all objects. In Powershell everything you're working on is objects, that object could be a string, an int or a hash. It has inbuilt XML / CSV parsers, and can pull in data from SQL server, Exchange, Azure Blobs and all sorts of other places with modules.
$ dd if=/dev/urandom bs=4096 | gzip -9 >/dev/null
Doesn't look like there's any trouble using these fds without strings.
In regards to a console scripting language, it's a lot faster for me to write something in Powershell than bash, and I end up writing a lot smaller scripts because I can use a lot of internal functions than having to write that code myself.
PHP was for websites and generating HTML code, it was never intended as a replacement for bash as far as I was aware. I think if PHP was anything, it was an open source replacement for ColdFusion.
I don't know why you find powershell faster to use, maybe you're doing very windows related things which don't yet have CLI tools.
Yes, there is a powershell parser for CSV, a bit like Text::CSV in perl, but requires about 10 times the
Re:If only (Score:5, Insightful)
If only Windows Server OS was free as in beer.
I still wouldn't trust it.
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If only Windows Server OS was free as in beer.
I still wouldn't trust it.
I'm gonna lose the rep I give in this thread by posting here, but fuck it.
I would. I work (and have worked) on both Linux (RH, Ubunto, CentOS), and Windows 2012/2016 (as well as a variety of other operating systems, including real-time OSs as well as old stuff from long ago - DOS, VAX, PICK).
I would not ever start a bizness or a system with the backend running on Windows simply because of the price.
But Windows has come a long way on the server side. I could run a good shop on Windows alone with SQL S
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The only OS Microsoft cares about is the one that makes them the most money. Money. That's M-O-N-E-Y. They'd throw Windows under the bus if it stopped performing to the cash flow they calculated. Clippy would designate a replacement, something BSD-ish so they wouldn't have to share. Then write a skin over it so the nerds can still find their ribbons and autoexec.bat.
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If only Windows Server OS was free as in beer.
If only Linux on the desktop wasn't a pile of unusable shit that makes Windows 10 look good.
Says the WIndows fanboy who never learned to use Linux or is afraid to try.
(Now, tell me you tried it 20 years ago and it didn't work)
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If only Windows Server OS was free as in beer.
If only Linux on the desktop wasn't a pile of unusable shit that makes Windows 10 look good.
Says the WIndows fanboy who never learned to use Linux or is afraid to try. (Now, tell me you tried it 20 years ago and it didn't work)
Windows now has the worst driver support bar none.
I received a nice new W10 Laptop. I did some work on it and wanted to print off the resullts. Shouldn't be an issue.
No driver for either of my printers - no driver available. I guess Microsoft decided that perfectly good printers needed to be chucked.
My Mac's latest MacOS has drivers. Every Linux install has pain free drivers for them. I could still by inkjet and laser carts, so I just incorrectly assumed they would work on the Windows 10 machine. Wrong
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Just because it has the printer drivers doesn't mean they work.
Now there is a strange statement. I've used the two printers for years, they print perfectly. Meanwhile, My Win10 Laptop hasno driver - period.
Same thing happened with USB to serial converters. I was setting up some dual boot laptops that used the converter . I set up the Linux side first. Worked great. You have to add yourself to dialout to use them because Linux considers Serial port a security risk. But hardly an effort at all.
But trying to set up the converter on the Windows side failed. Some dete
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Yet half the stuff I ask about configuring Windows the result is "oh it's easy, just edit these registry entries or run these PowerShell commends" which is no different.
Familiarity is often mistakenly conflated with intuitiveness.
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It's the rampant elitism that linux is /better/ that keeps it bad.
Um, no it's not. The problems you describe are issues with constantly changing hardware. Windows supports more hardware because hardware manufacturers and Microsoft have small armies of programmers to make sure the consumer doesn't have to think about anything...including the spyware they installed.
Sigh. (Score:1)
Guess it's time to move to FreeBSD.
FreeBSD on Azure (Re:Sigh.) (Score:2)
Mark Twain would certainly agree [medium.com], yes.
But I remember seeing virtualization-related commit-messages in FreeBSD, that indicated being sponsored by Microsoft. There are even official FreeBSD images for the cloud [theinquirer.net].
I think, the company would like to have alternatives to Linux work well on Azure. If only to keep Linux from becoming a monopoly — a monopoly, Microsoft will be unable to control...
I'm surprised they're using outside product (Score:4)
I always read that Microsoft had a policy of using its Own software, so the staff could easily identify bugs & bad user interfaces (and improve them). Maybe they've abandoned that philosophy.
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They realized there was no advantage to identifying bugs & bad user interfaces. They weren't going to be fixed anyway.
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They'd already seen their fair share of this [wordpress.com].
Re:I'm surprised they're using outside product (Score:5, Insightful)
It's more that if you are doing complicated, unique, serious stuff at a HUGE scale, Unix/Linux is just better. It's built for that kind of thing. The networking and storage functionality/flexibility alone is enough to make Linux the obvious choice for stuff like Azure services. And, of course, you can script literally anything in Linux. You can't in Windows.
Yeah, Microsoft *could* add all that stuff into Windows, but why? Who would use it besides them? And it would cost them a ton of money to develop. Linux is free.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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Agreed.
Has there been any product released by Microsoft in the last, say, 5 years, that doesn't have a scriptable PowerShell interface?
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...until you invoke sc.exe in a non-interactive manner (unless things have changed recently).
Then it promptly goes to shit.
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Agreed.
Has there been any product released by Microsoft in the last, say, 5 years, that doesn't have a scriptable PowerShell interface?
Have you actually tried to use PowerShell on a regular basis? I have. Just because it exists, it doesn't mean it's easy, or even possible to install the powershell version you want without a) upgrading the OS or b) breaking something.
I've worked and maintain large multi-platform COTS that run on Linux and Windows which require some type of scriptable configuration. Every single time, the Windows/PowerShell part was an effing nightmare compared to doing its Linux counterpart.
Honestly I don't mind the we
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today...
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Re:I'm surprised they're using outside product (Score:5, Insightful)
For little itty-bitty microprocessors, Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For appliance type devices (Home automation, etc), Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For embedded uses (cars, machinery, etc), Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For powerful hand-held computing devices, Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For services, Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For large horizontally-scaled services, Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For scientific computing, Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
For supercomputing, Linux is better than anything Microsoft has.
The only holdout of Windows is the desktop and gaming market, and god help them if they ever manage to kill off Windows as a viable gaming choice in the hope that it would boost their XBox division: consoles spend much less time dominating in each generation.
Even if they manage to make XBox the number one console in a single generation they are never going to hold on to that crown in succeeding generations.
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Personally I prefer Linux on the desktop.
Why would I give a FAAAAAARK what anyone else thinks?
I actually pray all the plebs stick with Windows. Let them stick with their spyware infested shtanky OS. It gives malware writers a sweet sweet target which keeps them away from me.
BTW SteamPlay for running winblows games on Linux is awesome. Give it a try.
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> spyware infested shtanky OS
First they came for the spyware infested shtanky OS users, and I did speak out - ...
Because I was not a spyware infested shtanky OS user.
Then they came for the SteamPlay users
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You've forgotten about business critical applications. Granted more and more are going cloud, so then a switch to Linux is possible, but there is still a plethora of Windows only options (even many cloud ones are just remoteapp/citrix xenapp). Microsoft Office is also a compelling reason for those already ingrained in their ecosystem.
It's a stupid company that ties it's very core to an Operating system. But hey - we saw the Internet Exploder 6 web app phenomenon too.
Meanwhile I've been setting up Apache Office pr places, and I've used it pretty exclusively for years, since it is compatible on Linux MacOS and Windows. Microsoft Office isn't even compatible with itself.
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Add to that statement that Linux is also better for gaming on a technical level, just not a support level. Unless you are trying to use SLI (and why would you?*) there is no technical advantage to Windows.
* My PC is SLI right now, but never again, and I will probably take the second card out soon anyway just for power consumption reasons. I got one GTX 950 AMP! as a warranty replacement for a 750 Ti from Zotac and I bought another one, but it's been a PITA and if I went back in time and had it to do again I
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The only holdout of Windows is the desktop and gaming market
Don't be silly. You're ignoring the single largest Windows user base: Corporate desktop / workstations.
For centrally managed and highly vertically integrated user services Windows is better than anything Linux has.
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Better for whom? Engineers? Scientists? Developers? No, no, and no. It's good for the *company*, and only then for managers and secretaries who do nothing more than email, presentations, and spreadsheets. For everyone else, the restrictions a large corporation puts on the standard disk image are counter-productive. In my company, we all just shake our heads and waste time with it, knowing there's nothing to be done about it.
I'd argue that the only thing that's REALLY holding back a corporate move to Linux i
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Better for whom? Engineers? Scientists? Developers? No, no, and no. It's good for the *company*
Read what I wrote: Centrally Managed, Highly vertically Integrated. I never said anything about end users.
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And, of course, you can script literally anything in Linux. You can't in Windows.
After years of advocating against the CLI, and having products squarely aimed at gui use (even the name windows implies a gui), they are now focusing on powershell - a cli - for their server offerings
Re:Poorly Made Argument (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure! Linux is free if your time is free. Or did you mean Free As In Beer? Perhaps you meant Free As In Freedom? Well now we've opened the can of worms for sure, haven't we?
The exact same can be said of windows...
If you don't have the skills or the time to invest, then the end result will be unstable and massively insecure. Getting a windows environment running decently and keeping it that way requires a significant investment.
Linux isn't any different, but unlike windows it doesn't pretend to be.
The idea that "linux is free" applies mostly to very large tech companies like amazon and google, they do have the skills to implement linux or windows, yet they choose linux because it scales better both technically and financially.
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Actually, you'll have more free time with Linux (at least, according to my small sample size of a few of us in the office).
Trying to (say) run an application on Linux is pretty easy: Terraform a VM, use userdata to install and run the app, optionally use a CM tool to keep the system looking good after the fact.
Windows: Pay the additional for a VM, have to scale up the VM by a notch or two because Windows is so slow. Try to use user data to install and run the app, decide it's better done in a powershell scr
You are right about 2 and 3...but.. (Score:2)
Here's a simple question for you...if Windows is better or even as good as Linux as a server, then why are now half of the VMs in Azure Linux, and every month it goes up? This is according to Microsoft's VP of the Cloud and Enterprise group.
Not surprised at all (Score:4, Insightful)
I think this is a great development and I respect where Satya Nadella is taking the company. I like the prospect of Microsoft being a powerful, profitable software company that plays well with others. I get the impression Nadella does as well.
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Native Azure services are often running on Linux
I always read that Microsoft had a policy of using its Own software
Fun fact: Azure storage runs on Midori [wikipedia.org], or at least did a couple years ago (I believe there's a new project now). Midori is the MS OS written in "Native C#". It had no threads, and no memory protection, and was rumored to be very fast as a result (though few have the skill to code for that kind of environment safely these days).
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AFAIK Midori was largely written in a language that was based on C#, but had memory management similar to Rust (I think). I don't think it was ever used in production, though.
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It definitely ran Azure storage servers circa 2013 - MS Research was proud of that. Maybe it still does, though Wikipedia says it was retired in 2015.
"Outside product" can be fuzzy (Score:3)
Lest we forget: Microsoft contributes a lot of code to the kernel, mostly to make their products run better. So in a broad sense, Linux is part of Microsoft's own dog food.
This might seem incongruous -- it sure does to me! -- but I am reminded of something Vernard Martin said about Linux: its role isn't to beat Microsoft, but to keep Microsoft honest.
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Maybe they've abandoned that philosophy.
Can you blame them? It's never worked.
Re:I'm surprised they're using outside product (Score:5, Funny)
I always read that Microsoft had a policy of using its Own software, so the staff could easily identify bugs & bad user interfaces (and improve them). Maybe they've abandoned that philosophy.
The problem is that Windows' networking is poop. Linux, on the other hand, has AFAICT the fastest and most capable networking stack of any full-fledged OS on the planet outside of FreeBSD... and have you ever dealt with BSD users? I'd rather take a performance hit.
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Re:I'm surprised they're using outside product (Score:4, Funny)
and have you ever dealt with BSD users? I'd rather take a performance hit.
*sadface*
I literally got into Linux because the FreeBSD users I knew were ever so much more RTFMish than the Linux users. At the time, just getting BSD installed was a PITA, and mind you, I was a SunOS4 sysadmin and SunOS4 was BSD based. Sun's documentation was worlds ahead of that of FreeBSD, whereas with Linux I didn't even need documentation.
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If I'm reading your question correctly, you're doing it wrong.
I've found most nics under windows refuse to accept vlan tagging without virtualizing them in some way. But that doesn't require installing any of the hyper-v components. You can do it with standard teaming. And this can be done with a single nic.
new-netlbfoteam -name whatever -teammembers ethernetalias -whateverotheroptions
set-netlbfoteamnic -name whatever -vlanid 123
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No reason they couldn't improve linux...
Many "bugs" in commercial software are actually just features which serve the purposes of the vendor and are contrary to the needs of the user.
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Not always:
https://scs.senecac.on.ca/~ibc... [senecac.on.ca]
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MS contributed a lot of code to the linux kernel, so yeah, it's still their own software, kind'a.
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Were that the case, there wouldn't be so many persistent UI issues in Windows going all the way back to at least Windows 95. Why do windows still open with 50% of their contents not visible? Why are nodal dialogue boxes still so prevalent? Why are there still windows that can be resized, but the contents don't expand to fit the new size? And before anyone asks, it's not only third party applications that exhibit these issues. It's MS's own software, too. Even at the OS level. It's dumb.
Not surprising...they use Git and not TFS (Score:2)
But... I guess they bought github, so that's sort of a roundabout way to safe face.
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I always read that Microsoft had a policy of using its Own software, so the staff could easily identify bugs & bad user interfaces (and improve them). Maybe they've abandoned that philosophy.
Windows, the OS itself, that was developed and built on AIX or DEC Alpha, I don't remember which.
They surely use their own software, but they need to cater to where customers are going, so...
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Point in case: Configuring an IP address is the exact same thing as it was in windows 95. Well, up until 7 it was, dunno what they did afterward.
At least with NT/2000/XP/7, etc you could change the IP without having to reboot the computer for it to take effect. I remember with my laptop I could cheat by changing the IP, then removing and reinserting the PCMCIA card.
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I was implying win 9x you had to change reboot the computer, but not with NT(or NT based such a XP, 7 etc).
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The "extend" bit is not going to plan. I thought when I heard powershell for linux or sqlserver for linux that MS would do more to promote that use, but I doubt anyone is going to adopt either of those. It looks more to me that MS are adopting open source than proprietary taking hold on linux.
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So, you're saying that DOS was a Disk Operating System... Interesting... ;)
Re: I'm surprised they're using outside product (Score:2)
But I would definitely would like to see a open source alternative to Linux having a good share of market.
Linus runs Linux development with a iron fist. And because Linus has a good moral understanding about how Linux should proceed it stays on the track of being a good open source kernel.
But Linus won't live forever. One day his "dictatorship" will end.
Who will replace him? Who will say "No" when huge corporations t
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Note to self! (Score:2)
Note to Self, use products that actually work the way they're suppose to win. Force yourself to take the corporate cool-aid, lose....
Just get over it, MS (Score:4, Interesting)
It's not just on Azure that Microsoft is embracing Linux.
Just make your next desktop OS (Windows XI ?) be a Linux based, MS ripped-from-somewhere GUI, and you're all set. No reason you couldn't include the usual spyware in such a system. Linux zealots would work hard to make such a desktop perform excellent across the widest choice of hardware options out there.
After that's said 'n done, Linux on Azure is just another day in the office.
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Who knows, maybe that's where they're going with Xamarin and official support of C# on Linux. Most MS-written stuff is C# these days. Who can they buy to get DirectX working well on Linux? That would get all the games too.
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SteamPlay for Linux already works like a champ.
Does it work for any games at all that have non-Steam DRM (i.e., most non-indy games)?
Re:Just get over it, MS (Score:4, Insightful)
Just make your next desktop OS (Windows XI ?) be a Linux based, MS ripped-from-somewhere GUI, and you're all set.
That won't work. Their spyware depends on being in the OS, not just in the GUI. Let's say they made a non-GPL GUI that was bundled with the GPL OS. They'd still have to publish the OS sources, and then people would just take the spyware out (and put in features designed to block any spyware embedded in the GUI.) It's not just that they "wouldn't" do that, they can't.
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it wouldn't be a bad move, and they could also invest/contribute to wine for backwards compatibility.
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Not happening.
On Azure, specially their infrastructure, nobody pays for Windows, so Linux it is. On the desktop, the hardware sellers pay for Windows, no need for Linux there.
Microsoft will soon provide virtual managed desktops running on Azure. Perfect where you already are paying for a Windows Enterprise desktop OS + Office subscription per user - just add your Azure usage charges and you can use whatever old POS (or mobile device with external screen) still runs and connects to the network, and get your inhouse Win10 image delivered anywhere. https://www.microsoft.com/en-u... [microsoft.com]
What's after "Embrace, extend"? (Score:3, Funny)
Remind me again, I forgot.
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Why, "Contribute back to the community," of course!
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Bill monthly :)
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Quotation.
After embracing something typical users who don't understand how EEE works will just jump straight to quoting the line without realizing why it's not at all relevant.
Where is the justice? (Score:2, Interesting)
I wish there was a way to prevent MS from using Linux after all the effort they put into thwarting it. (FUD, SCO lawsuit, etc.) They fact that they are making money from it now, does not seem right. Maybe now that they are adopting it (only because their customers demanded it), means this is the beginning of the end for Windows.
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this is the beginning of the end for Windows.
Here are two different perspectives on that:
1) The end of Windows started a long time ago when Android became a real competitor, free of charge and with excellent hardware compatibility out of the box.
2) The end of Windows will not really happen. It just becomes an OS commanding a smaller share of overall number of OS buyers than back in the day. How this corresponds to real market share (in money) and to real revenue, I don't know.
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So here's what I think is actually going on:
Microsoft have finally understood that they are incapable of making a good operating system. They also see they are making far more money off of Linux than Windows 10 so have every intention to pivot ti Linux as their main server OS, then Desktop later.
Its obvious whats coming next, straight out of their play book: Embrace-extend-extinguish.
I'm actually convinced they are behind this CoC nonsense as a a strategy to fragment Linux at its core (via many secretly pai
If Bill Gates were dead... (Score:3)
he'd be rolling over in his grave.
This is great news, but dominate is a strong word (Score:2)
To be clear, I am a Linux user/lover - desktop and server. I'm happy Microsoft is making good money supporting Linux. It's just a slight majority is not what I would normally call domination.
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Oh, I see, you're not from the corporate world.
Translating his corporate spin into English is pretty easy; subtract the downplay of bad news he was trying to deliver and you basically have this translation:
Yes, Linux is kicking our ass in Azure and we're looking at 75-90% of Linux servers vs Windows servers.
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It doesn't matter which 'free' OS (free for Microsoft) tops the Azure lists. Whether it's Windows or Linux, MS doesn't pay a dime in licenses as people rent more instances.
MS would be similarly happy if, say, WFWG 3.11 VDIs came to be a sleeper hit with developing world users (super fast, cents per user/year, no license impact, no cannibalisation).
But if OSX, Irix or VMS instances began to gain on Azure, MS would worry about revenue sharing with OS copyright holders.
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I hate to be a stickler for words, but "Slightly over half of Azure VMs are Linux" is not the traditional definition of dominate.
It is after what microsoft said about Linux and how much effort they put into killing it.
OMG though this thread is rocking it old school. Let's party like it's 1999. I should have spelled it Micro$oft. OK my parties may have sucked a bit back then.
Nelson: Ha-Ha! (Score:2)
If Windows Server was THAT much better then Linux according to all the FUD, er "research", MS paid off from the Gartner Group, etc, W.R.T. ROI, etc., then why is there such a HUGE upswing in Linux?
What are the areas tha MS is _publicly_ admitting where Linux does a better job then Windows?
Azure is backwards (Score:5, Insightful)
Running a Linux VM on windows makes it dependent on Win10's vulnerabilities, security holes, etc...
Better would be to run Win10 as a VM on Linux.
Better yet, don't use Win10 at all. Save yourself hundreds of bucks and forget Win10's problems. Isn't being on Microsoft's cash treadmill for 20 years enough punishment?
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Running a Linux VM on windows
Shows that you don't know how Azure works.
makes it dependent on Win10's vulnerabilities
Shows you don't know how Hyper-V works.
Better would be to run Win10 as a VM on Linux.
Shows you don't realise that Linux is far better optimised and performs far better in a Hyper-V / vSphere host, than Windows does on a Xen / KVM host.
Better yet, don't use Win10 at all.
Ding ding ding. We have a winner. Incidentally that's exactly how Azure works when you run Linux.
Waiting for.. (Score:2)
Next, windows' window manager (Score:2)
And everything from Microsoft will be Linux based.
But Linux is dead? (Score:2)
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As I read things, it is a possibility, but a small one.
The much more likely, and therefore concerning possibility, is that people who can be publicly identified as not leaning heavily Marxist will be discouraged from making future improvements to the kernel. Since Marxists are either ignorant or psychopathic, or both, almost by definition, this means the quality of the kernel codebase, as well as the kernel community, will decline over time, until saner and better people decide to fork it.
Not posting as AC
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You really didn;t already know that Microsoft are always multiple years behind the curve?
Just in time... (Score:2)
Just as the CoC weirdos have chased Linus out of Linux, dooming it to be a pile of shit in the next few years. It was a good run, but Linux quality is going to go down starting now.