Linux Community To Adopt New Code of Conduct (kernel.org) 780
Following Linus Torvalds' public apology for his behavior over the years, the Linux Community said it will be adopting a new "Code of Conduct", which pledges to make "participation in our project and our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation."
Oh thank god (Score:4, Funny)
Just imagine how quickly kernel technology will advance now that the mailing list is a designated safe space for special snowflakes.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Funny)
fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Interesting)
BULLSHIT. [lkml.org]
-- Linus Torvalds, LKML, 21/1/2018
COMPLETE AND UTTER GARBAGE. [lkml.org]
-- Linus Torvalds, LKML, 21/1/2018
WHAT THE F*CK IS GOING ON? [lkml.org]
-- Linus Torvalds, LKML, 21/1/2018
Re:fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, but he's right.
Re:fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:4, Insightful)
Thanks for the edit, but most adults, and even some children, can do this on their own, usually while in the act of reading.
Interesting that your sig is labeling anyone who uses the term SJW a fuckwit. I almost self-edited that out. But that's okay cause being consistent is not in any way a trait of progressives.
Re:fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Insightful)
It's one thing to go on one of his really early rants about how he's amazed someone hasn't gotten themselves decapitated by a door and the hypersensitive language policing you're doing. If you really can't stand something as tiny as the slightly harsh language relating to a very serious set of issues then I recommend you get off the internet for a few weeks and try to put your life into perspective because if something as tiny as that irks you, then your priorities could use some re-organizing or you've got a really easy life.
Re:fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Informative)
Re: fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:3, Insightful)
Linus has always had a handle on his fiery pasdion. Theo de Raadt has not and always let his ego get in the way.
Do not apologize, Linus. Without your might, Linux will go the way of Windows 8 within a few short years.
Re: fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Insightful)
Ever deal with a retard that thinks himself a genius? Sometimes being offensive is the only way to blow past the idiocy efficiently.
Re: fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Insightful)
This, this right the fuck here.
I've seen more than my share of soi-disant developer gods (who, well, weren't), and sometimes the only way to shut them the hell up and make them listen is to nuke their ego from orbit and use a few harsh words to drive the point home while you do it.
This method works perfectly in the Military (has for literal centuries), and adapts nicely to the dev world.
Re: fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Insightful)
and sometimes the only way to shut them the hell up and make them listen is to nuke their ego from orbit and use a few harsh words to drive the point home while you do it.
There is an old leadership principle which goes something like "praise in public, criticize in private".
If your goal is to "nuke someone's ego", then you can do that in private. When you do it in public you 1) look like a dick, and 2) scare away people who very well may have good ideas but don't care to deal with your arrogant and insulting outbursts. Volunteers have a limited amount of time, and a lot of them already understand that wasting their time participating in a system where they can expect to get their ego "nuked" isn't worth it to them.
No, the goal of someone who uses "a few harsh words" in public to criticize others isn't to deal with that one person, it's to demonstrate their own power and scare off anyone else who would dare challenge it.
This method works perfectly in the Military
That you think a software development project has the same needs and concerns as a group where people can be and are ordered to their death, and failure to obey orders can result in other people dying, is interesting. The fact that we are having this discussion shows that no, it does not adapt "nicely" to the software development world. And "nicely" may have been deliberately ironic on your part, but I doubt it.
Re: fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:4, Interesting)
> When you do it in public you 1) look like a dick, and 2) scare away people who very well may have good ideas but don't care to deal with your arrogant and insulting outbursts.
>> This method works perfectly in the Military
This.The reason you rip someone a new one in front of other people is so that you don't have to do it in private again and again to the other people. I learned this in Basic Training. I got ripped for a mistake and nobody else ever made that mistake again. I figured this out immediately and didn't take it personally.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yup, for something like kernel dev you need strong leadership/management, like Linus was, until he somehow got confused weakness is a virtue.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
you need strong leadership/management
You are confusing "strong leadership" with "be an asshole and denigrate your followers". The two are not synonymous. In fact, those who feel the need to do the latter to be leaders truly are not strong leaders.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
ou can be hard on developers without offending a group of people, who attributes are unrelated to the topic that needs to be corrected.
Beautiful in theory. In practice, if a white male criticizes someone who isn't, the content of the criticism is irrelevant, and he's automatically a bigot. It's all political power games.
Fingers crossed that Linux avoids "get woke; go broke", but if Linus stays away it could go rotten as so many other things have,
Re: fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:4, Insightful)
James Damour. Fired for being right.
Re:fun game out of context, totally apropos: (Score:5, Insightful)
And this is why he's right:
"So somebody isn't telling the truth here. Somebody is pushing complete garbage for unclear reasons. Sorry for having to point that out."
He never trashes the human being, only the stupid thing they did, and people do stupid things and need feedback and correction. But the SJW culture has people focusing on their feelings and their fragile egos instead of what is being built.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I bet dollars to doughnuts that Linus is right 99.99% of the time but some wordings in his mails really sound childish.
How many tens of thousands of emails has he sent? How many are in public?
People get upset by the dozen in which he's finally lost patience and shown he's actually human.
I get that he has to deal with sub-par kernel engineers from company X pushing an agenda and being really stupid and they deserve an ass-chewing, but if I were him
You're not him though. None of us are. He's fucking remarkable, and I'm willing to accept that occasionally he might send an email that's less diplomatic than the other 99.99% of them.
Re: Oh thank god (Score:4, Insightful)
The standards are clear. Code is to be judged by quality and not by submitter.
I'm guessing the shrill screams are from those who can't compete on merit.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Probably faster, because there will be a lot less trolling and more focus on the technical issue at hand vs Alpha Geek Chest Thumping.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Funny)
Decisions, decisions. Protect fragile **egos** from entitled children and get nothing done, or state things like they are and/or come off as a jerk in the process, while getting shit fixed... I'll take the latter.
Just fixing shit, don't get offended now.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: Oh thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly, the snowflakes need to understand that criticizing their idea doesn't mean that they as a person are being abused.
But too many people these days think they've been insulted just because someone doesn't agree with them.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Informative)
None.
Linux is what it is as a result of the environment through which it arose.
There are no incredible ideas that went unnoticed because someone chose not to participate. There are very few original ideas about kernel development to begin with, inspiration comes mostly from hardware-side innovations that need to be incorporated. The idea that some meek, solitary genius would be the only one to notice is ridiculous.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
If he is too afraid to speak he can not be brilliant -- he hasn't had a chance to achieve brilliance without engaging with others and correcting, or standing his ground, based on their feedback.
Re: (Score:3)
Ideas, even good ones, are one dime a dozen. With a project like the Linux Kernel, it's all about the quality of work and the minimization of errors. The last thing you want is even more dudes voicing ideas without without being willing or able to back them up by excellent code.
So the better question is: How many bad ideas, unmaintainable code and bugs have been spared us, because a not so brilliant individual was too afraid to bring it up in fear of facing bulling and ridicule?
Fear of shame and ridicule is
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Not at all. A lot of the best parts of the kernel started out buggy and were then improved from prototype level by a number of different people. Very few parts were written by one person and delivered as a flawless fait accompli patch.
In fact the original CoC noted that almost no patches are accepted first time without changes. And Linus has reversed direction a number of times on things he realized he was wrong about.
Re: (Score:3)
The comment Linus famously makes are in the context of code reviews, not just out of the blue. He gets passionate when people claim something isn't a bug, or isn't important.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
Or, more contributors will stick around because now they don't have to deal with abusive dicks like you
Someone thinks because they wear a man bun , a fedora, and attended a couple month how to code camp they are actually skilled and knowledgeable.
I am sure the project is going to love having more people working on it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
Hopefully Linus is taking a break to hone his language skills so he can better destroy truly annoying people that have no business being near the kernel.
Re:Oh thank god (Score:5, Insightful)
Your argument fails in the fact perhaps that guy with the man bun or a fedora and attended those code camps are actually a brilliant person who can really contribute.
LOL
Or you do want Linux coded by all guys with a short hair cut, suites, and has PHDs.
Have. But you can haz cheezberger
Coding is 25% intelligence and 75% effort.
For bad programmers.
What's really amazing is that you were too stupid to understand what the Fred Brooks software engineering links meant but you just tried to lecture someone who has been at it, longer than you have been alive.
Yeah I see Linux doing real well now / sarcasm
Re:Oh thank god (Score:4, Insightful)
Your argument fails in the fact perhaps that guy with the man bun or a fedora and attended those code camps are actually a brilliant person who can really contribute.
Or you do want Linux coded by all guys with a short hair cut, suites, and has PHDs.
Coding is 25% intelligence and 75% effort. If someone is willing to do the effort then they should be able to contribute, if their code is crap, then don't put it in. As their current contribution didn't meet the standards needed for this deployment.
They should feel free to learn and try again, perhaps the next time they may have something brilliant.
Good coding is a combination of experience and intelligence with a side of knowledge.
If you think people won't be afraid to openly criticize code if it comes from *PROTECTED CLASS* when one is a member of *NOT-PROTECTED CLASS* then you've clearly not been paying attention to this part of the world.
It'd be nice to be wrong with this. It'd be nice for the SJWs not to eat this. It'd be nice if merit and not other considerations was the only determining factor. It'd be nice. It'd also be surprising
Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Informative)
===========
In the interest of fostering an open and welcoming environment, we as
contributors and maintainers pledge to making participation in our project and
our community a harassment-free experience for everyone, regardless of age, body
size, disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and
expression, level of experience, education, socio-economic status, nationality,
personal appearance, race, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.
Our Standards
=============
Examples of behavior that contributes to creating a positive environment
include:
* Using welcoming and inclusive language
* Being respectful of differing viewpoints and experiences
* Gracefully accepting constructive criticism
* Focusing on what is best for the community
* Showing empathy towards other community members
Examples of unacceptable behavior by participants include:
* The use of sexualized language or imagery and unwelcome sexual attention or
advances
* Trolling, insulting/derogatory comments, and personal or political attacks
* Public or private harassment
* Publishing others’ private information, such as a physical or electronic
address, without explicit permission
* Other conduct which could reasonably be considered inappropriate in a
professional setting
Our Responsibilities
====================
Maintainers are responsible for clarifying the standards of acceptable behavior
and are expected to take appropriate and fair corrective action in response to
any instances of unacceptable behavior.
Maintainers have the right and responsibility to remove, edit, or reject
comments, commits, code, wiki edits, issues, and other contributions that are
not aligned to this Code of Conduct, or to ban temporarily or permanently any
contributor for other behaviors that they deem inappropriate, threatening,
offensive, or harmful.
Scope
=====
This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces
when an individual is representing the project or its community. Examples of
representing a project or community include using an official project e-mail
address, posting via an official social media account, or acting as an appointed
representative at an online or offline event. Representation of a project may be
further defined and clarified by project maintainers.
Enforcement
===========
Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may be
reported by contacting the Technical Advisory Board (TAB) at
. All complaints will be reviewed and
investigated and will result in a response that is deemed necessary and
appropriate to the circumstances. The TAB is obligated to maintain
confidentiality with regard to the reporter of an incident. Further details of
specific enforcement policies may be posted separately.
Maintainers who do not follow or enforce the Code of Conduct in good faith may
face temporary or permanent repercussions as determined by other members of the
project’s leadership.
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:4, Insightful)
No more telling people they can deep-throat Microsoft if they want then. No wonder Linus needed to go and “find himself”.
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Insightful)
This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces when an individual is representing the project or its community. Examples of representing a project or community include using an official project e-mail address, posting via an official social media account, or acting as an appointed representative at an online or offline event.
Looks good. So if you are not acting on behalf of the project, use official project email for communication, or were officially appointed representative, then your conduct has no relationship with this. Extreme example - Nazi would still be able to contribute as long as Nazi-related speech is kept out of commits, discussions, mailing list, and group events.
Representation of a project may be further defined and clarified by project maintainers.
Ugh, what? Why bother defining the above applicability rules and then inserting this gigantic "scope is what project maintainers decide the scope is"? This seems like a huge flaw that has to be fixed.
Re: (Score:2)
Better not make a joke about dongles
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:4, Insightful)
This Code of Conduct applies both within project spaces and in public spaces
when an individual is representing the project or its community. Examples of
representing a project or community include using an official project e-mail
address, posting via an official social media account, or acting as an appointed
representative at an online or offline event.
Looks good. So if you are not acting on behalf of the project, use official project email for communication, or were officially appointed representative, then your conduct has no relationship with this. Extreme example - Nazi would still be able to contribute as long as Nazi-related speech is kept out of commits, discussions, mailing list, and group events.
Representation of a project may be further defined and clarified by project maintainers.
Ugh, what? Why bother defining the above applicability rules and then inserting this gigantic "scope is what project maintainers decide the scope is"? This seems like a huge flaw that has to be fixed.
You've confused a feature with a bug. That isn't a flaw. That's entirely by design. It gives the impression of being defined, but ultimately allows it to be fudged however the political winds are blowing. Neat, no?
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Because there may be times where they may be socially associated with an organization, but not acting on "official" behalf of them. As a contrived example, if they're attending an industry conference where they're not an "appointed representative", people may still identify them as a "Linux maintainer".
I don't disagree that it's ambiguous, but with people attempting to be hyper-literal in order to defend their terrible behavior as unactionable, I don't see any way it couldn't be. They have to leave themselves room to allow a case-by-case basis in egregious circumstances.
It should be unactionable, because alternative is subjective and selective policing and that is orders of magnitude worse. My view that it shouldn't be up to a project to police terrible behaviour that is not directly related to the project.
Re: (Score:3)
> if it is open then law enforcement would have no problems prosecuting such behavior.
What world do you live in? We can't get people to agree that sexual harassment is even a thing, or should be legally actionable; you really think "law enforcement" is going to "prosecute" that? For the record, law enforcement still asks questions on what victims did to deserve it.
As for your attempt to "flip the example", you will have tofurther define "sponsor" and "pro-life initiative"; one's an ambiguous term, the ot
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Interesting)
One thing is certain - codes of conduct exist to take projects away from maintainers. That's their purpose. They've been forced onto one project after another - they are the open source/free software version of entryism. Woolly wording... fuck all to do with actual technology... vague enough to be used to crucify men based on anonymous, worthless allegations.
Linus will end up regretting this. He'll be forced off the project by some bullshit made-up claim.
It's how this always happens. Mark my words.
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, this is generally what happens to a project. It adopts a CoC or enough anonymous/SJW complaints are created, big contributors leave or are forced out, the project dies or slows because it is spending inane amounts of energy on political discussions rather than technical.
It happened with NodeJS, Kubernetes, LLVM, Tor, Debian all of which are decent projects but kind of 'stuck' now that boards and bug lists are overrun by "complaints" rather than technical discussions. If the SJW's don't get their way, they fork the code, take a number of core developers and none of those forks have actually produced a decent competitor to their parent rather, some of them have spawned their own forks because SJW infighting. Instead of getting a better product, a bunch of energy and time is wasted.
It's happening with Python and Linux now. Expect Linux to slow down immensely.
Re: (Score:3)
Actually, this is generally what happens to a project. It adopts a CoC or enough anonymous/SJW complaints are created, big contributors leave or are forced out, the project dies or slows because it is spending inane amounts of energy on political discussions rather than technical. It happened with NodeJS, Kubernetes, LLVM, Tor, Debian all of which are decent projects but kind of 'stuck' now that boards and bug lists are overrun by "complaints" rather than technical discussions.
I wondered if what you said is true? Here's a graph of LLVM contributions. I pulled it from github's llvm-mirror/llvm repo, and used github's "Insights > Contributions" tab to display the graph. Github claimed that the graph shows up to September 2018 -- that's contradicted by the labels and tickmarks. I wonder if github's graph-plotting routines don't get the label+tickmark positions quite right? I aimed to include roughly equal spans before and after the code of conduct to see if there's a clear effect
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Insightful)
You don't see a clear trend in the graph you've provided? Contributions are trending upwards until the CoC is introduced, then they trend downwards until someone quits. I don't think we have enough data to see what the effect on the main contributors quitting is but you can see similar trends in other projects.
I'm not saying LLVM is dead, but as someone else said, there is a huge brain drain BACK to GCC which was the entire reason people jumped onto LLVM.
Same for NodeJS, there too you can see a huge difference, even though the number of contributors has risen, the number of commits goes down. Parts of this has to do that the SJW's split off NodeJS (a fork that is now dead), the leadership thought this was an issue back then, in a panic introduced a CoC which allowed the SJW to persecute another developer, the SJW then split it onto Ayo (now also dead). This drama keeps people from using their free time to do what they want as far as contributions and now they have to deal with leftist politics, it saps people from working on the core projects because either they start working on a fork that doesn't pan out or they just stay away from the drama.
I am a firm believer in free speech. Don't like what someone has to say, then ignore them. Persecutions and witch hunts kill organizations. I've seen it happen locally in various settings too, various clubs are dying because everyone has to introduce 'safe spaces' and falls over each other not to hurt someone's feelings.
Re: (Score:3)
At least that was the plan, now we're going back to Docker because filing a Kubernetes bug report gets you all sorts of grief about your formulations being too male-centric aggressive.
You have discussions like this: https://github.com/kubernetes/... [github.com] - where hundreds of dev-hours are spent on renaming something because they found "PetSet" to be offensive to animals AND THEY WENT ALONG WITH IT.
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:4, Informative)
Err, you left out the bottom part: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/commit/8a104f8b5867#diff-310ab816e1e15913bbe69e164b689ac9R77 [github.com]
Attribution
===========
This Code of Conduct is adapted from the Contributor Covenant, version 1.4,
available at https://www.contributor-covenant.org/version/1/4/code-of-conduct.html [contributor-covenant.org]
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Insightful)
Meanwhile, what was removed:
-The Linux kernel development effort is a very personal process compared
-to "traditional" ways of developing software. Your code and ideas
-behind it will be carefully reviewed, often resulting in critique and
-criticism. The review will almost always require improvements to the
-code before it can be included in the kernel. Know that this happens
-because everyone involved wants to see the best possible solution for
-the overall success of Linux. This development process has been proven
-to create the most robust operating system kernel ever, and we do not
-want to do anything to cause the quality of submission and eventual
-result to ever decrease.
-
-If however, anyone feels personally abused, threatened, or otherwise
-uncomfortable due to this process, that is not acceptable. If so,
-please contact the Linux Foundation's Technical Advisory Board at
-, or the individual members, and they
-will work to resolve the issue to the best of their ability.
So, the language that states "best possible solution" has been replaced language related to the "good of the community." Personally, I don't interact with Linux as a community (if my name isn't enough of a tip-off). I consume it as a product, and I want the best product I can get in order to go do something else, because work. If they think they can still get the best product while airing all this drama in public and trying to build sticks to hit each other with, whatever. Good on them. What I fear will happen is more "my ignorance is just as valid as your expertise, and if you don't think so i'm going to beat you with the CoC until you stop hurting my feelings." That's not going to result in a better product.
But, not my community, not my responsibility. But now that most of the world runs on this stack, I just want to see a consistently high level of quality. Lack of quality makes it my problem, regardless of whether or not it is my responsibility.
Re: Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:5, Informative)
FreeBSD has a lot of its own drama, yes. It also has some technical shortcomings that prevent me from using it at work. Some of of the attempts to fix those shortcomings have resulted in drama. The problem with literally everything is people, which sucks and can't be gotten away from. The further problem with open source is for some people it's a hobby, and for some people its work. And if it's your hobby, no one wants to be told your baby is ugly. If its work, you don't really want to deal with people insulting each other's babies. You just want to get your product done, with as few defects as possible.
But once you have a job, a family, and property and other stuff that needs attention and protection, interacting with the community becomes less of priority. And once it is, none of the shouting and jabbing and pushing around is worth it. I'm in the camp of "ignore the politics and just use the software" at this point, but in today's 24/7 live-streamed outrage culture, it is impossible to ignore the politics. The people with an agenda won't let themselves be ignored as long as you're plugged in.
So, computers for work only. Not really interested in spending hobby time on it anymore. I haven't been on IRC in months. I quit twitter because I couldn't spend more than 45 seconds on it without hating the whole world. Facebook is a time sink that isn't worth it. Frankly, Slashdot jumped the shark like 10 years ago but I still keep coming here anyway for reasons unknown. I should probably review that...
Re:Code of Conduct - Exact Text (Score:4, Insightful)
Of the 'traditional freedoms', I find one missing: the right to a political opinion. But I think we all know where this is going to end: it will be open season on those who voted Trump, for example.
Exceptions (Score:5, Funny)
I assume "works for Intel" is still fair game, right?
Re: (Score:3)
Can't be examined in isolation (Score:5, Insightful)
I really, really, really wish these had been handled non-concurrently. It's virtually impossible not to analyze or comment on the two events together, which leads to some unsettling connotations for some.
While I think Linus taking a breather to maybe not be as much of a dick while still demanding high quality code is an admirable moment of self-reflection, the roots of this Code of Conduct are quite unsettling.
One really can't discuss the wording of the CoC [github.com] without discussing the Contributor Covenant [contributor-covenant.org] and the larger philosophical goals of the Post-Meritocracy manifesto [postmeritocracy.org].
From the CC:
From the PMM:
These are explicitly political documents... and they should be addressed as such. I don't think anyone has a problem with "don't be a jerk, and don't make it personal" in an open source project. Arguably, Linus has stepped over the line on occasion. The adoption of this document goes far beyond rectifying a mere lack of teeth in telling people to "Be excellent to each other [github.com]"
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
No shit. This is the beginning of the end for Linus and quite possibly Linux in its current hugely successful form. It won't happen tomorrow, but the sort of social justice lunatics wanting to take over the project are celebrating. See the nodejs fiasco for an example. He had to ensure he was never alone with a woman because of their machinations and using women to get alone with him before making allegations... and this is the next stage.
Codes of conduct exist to take projects away from maintainers. That's
Re:Can't be examined in isolation (Score:5, Interesting)
One really can't discuss the wording of the CoC [github.com] without discussing the Contributor Covenant [contributor-covenant.org] and the larger philosophical goals of the Post-Meritocracy manifesto [postmeritocracy.org]
I think you can. Nothing in CoC states that you must also adopt the manifesto. Sure, this CoC was produced by dubious people with very questionable intentions. Likewise, GPL license is based on Stallman's ideas. This doesn't mean that we have to adopt all of the Stallman's extreme views about software in their entirety. I am still hopeful that sanity will prevail and it won't go past CoC. However, I do understand and share your concerns.
Re:Can't be examined in isolation (Score:5, Interesting)
One really can't discuss the wording of the CoC [github.com] without discussing the Contributor Covenant [contributor-covenant.org] and the larger philosophical goals of the Post-Meritocracy manifesto [postmeritocracy.org]
I think you can. Nothing in CoC states that you must also adopt the manifesto. Sure, this CoC was produced by dubious people with very questionable intentions. Likewise, GPL license is based on Stallman's ideas. This doesn't mean that we have to adopt all of the Stallman's extreme views about software in their entirety. I am still hopeful that sanity will prevail and it won't go past CoC. However, I do understand and share your concerns.
You're correct, the CoC doesn't absolutely require adopting the PMM. However, it would be very hard to ignore the fact that both were written by the same person with the same overall agenda in mind and what the previous person said is 100% correct, this is a political agenda and has nothing to do with technology and only relates to being respectful to people insofar as the ways in which that advances the political agenda in question.
The previous "code" Linux had was fine. If a change was needed, an amendment of "Also, don't be a dick" would have worked. However, they have ripped out a code which specifically called for quality and good engineering above all and replaced it with one written by someone who is, by their own words a "Notorious Social Justice Warrior". I don't know the person, I could be misinterpreting their words and maybe it is tongue-in-cheek. I tend to doubt it.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
You what's going to happen next, quotas on the percentage of women and minorities contributing to projects. These people are cancer and it's about time they stopped.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
To be clear though the Code of Conduct doesn't say any of that, or even hint at it. And the text from the Contributor Covenant that you quoted isn't actually from the Covenant itself, it's from the preamble on the web page that introduces it.
So I think your "context" here is just fear-mongering. Can you point to anything you find problematic in the actual Code of Conduct?
Re:Can't be examined in isolation (Score:4, Interesting)
To be clear though the Code of Conduct doesn't say any of that, or even hint at it. And the text from the Contributor Covenant that you quoted isn't actually from the Covenant itself, it's from the preamble on the web page that introduces it.
So I think your "context" here is just fear-mongering. Can you point to anything you find problematic in the actual Code of Conduct?
I don't see how the explicit preamble on the main page is to be dissociated from the code itself. That's like saying that the FSF's philosophy is distinct from the GPL. By its nature, a debate about which copyright license to use (say, GPL vs BSD vs MIT) touches on the philosophical underpinnings of the licenses themselves, not solely on the text, nor solely on the utilitarian effect of the license on project use.
To answer your question, though, yes. The previous code referred to humans individually and did not prioritize, label, or categorize the use of various "classes" of persons. The new conduct policy is vague as to conduct, guarantees corrective action without indicating guidelines on what that is, describes a "professional environment", which (despite individuals being employed at times) implies a regulatory framework on the project as a whole, explicitly brings in public behavior outside the context of the project as subject to the jurisdiction of this, and implies there are additional rules to come.
Off-hand, I'd say the Code of Conduct from near the end of the movie Pleasantville was less oppressive.
Re:Can't be examined in isolation (Score:4, Insightful)
Notably that while they were making room for all that moderately flowery language about inclusion, they removed the parts where they warn that there may be criticism, because criticism is an important facet. Since a frank warning that *appropriate* criticism was deemed too scary, I suppose they omitted it.
This is an excellent point. A presumed reason for it being called a "Code of Conflict" was an acknowledgement that there would be conflict, and that management of that conflict was crucial for any human endeavor. Conflict is natural, and our justice system itself is based on an adversarial interaction (lawyers for the prosecution and defense debate in front of a jury according to given rules). In that context, going from "conflict" to "conduct" itself is a notable change.
Re:Can't be examined in isolation (Score:4, Insightful)
That's a stupid argument.
Merit cannot be measured _perfectly_, same as all other metrics. Not the same as saying it can't be measured at all, which is just obviously wrong on its face.
Wheaton's law - Don't be a Dick (Score:3)
Re:Wheaton's law - Don't be a Dick (Score:5, Insightful)
Except Wheaton is one of the biggest violators of that.
this is madness.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Is everybody insane?!
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Linux: survived Microsoft, killed by SJWs (Score:5, Insightful)
The only "code of conduct" ought to be: "my code doesn't care about your feelings". You can't develop good code in a Safe Space.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What words specifically are you worried about?
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The lack of any discussing how good the contributed code should be.
Re:Linux: survived Microsoft, killed by SJWs (Score:5, Insightful)
For example: "fostering an open and welcoming environment", plus all notes relating to that.
It would be better if the environment was not particularly welcoming and friendly to those people who can't produce the highest quality code. If you can't keep up, get out of the way.
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It would be better if the environment was not particularly welcoming and friendly to those people who can't produce the highest quality code. If you can't keep up, get out of the way.
Citation needed.
I've found it better to reject code that isn't high enough quality in a friendly and welcoming manner -- from my personal experience from my 15 years in the industry, I've found that a quicker and more successful way to motivate substandard coders to become good and productive coders.
It reminds me of the Aesop's Fable about when the sun and the wind made a bet to see who could get someone to take off my cloak -- so I assume my experience reflects a more or less universal human experience.
But
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I also don't see how being open and welcoming would prevent feedback being given and code improve before being accepted
What's a nice way to say that the code is a total disaster area and that it has no business being near the kernel ? What if "code improve" means that it needs to rewritten from scratch by someone else who actually understands ? Plenty of people simply have the wrong idea about how to solve a problem. Having those people in the team just slows everything down, and arguing with them, or trying to explain how to improve, can be a waste of time. In order words, you just want to fire them from the project, beca
Re:Linux: survived Microsoft, killed by SJWs (Score:5, Insightful)
"The end of Linux as we know it"? Gee, overreach much?
No, it won't be the end of Linux as we know it. If anything it could make Linux better by not pushing away code contributors thanks to a sometimes toxic community.
The issue, which you surely know and are willfully ignoring/misrepresenting is NOT that my code cares about your feelings, but that people in the development community shouldn't be assholes when dealing with each other.
And you can write good code in a "Safe Space". I've worked at several companies that had very strict rules about conduct in code reviews, problem reporting, and, more generally, meetings. And you know what? We did good and sometimes great work, because we could focus on our work, the stuff we loved about coding, and not the petty personal crap that tends to creep into nearly all workplaces. If someone got out of line, no one even had to complain; word of what happened would inevitably get to mgmt who would discreetly step in, talk to the offender behind closed doors, and that would be the end of it.
If you value your opportunities to be a jerk more than creating a comfortable, productive work environment, then there's nothing anyone can do to help you.
Re:Linux: survived Microsoft, killed by SJWs (Score:5, Insightful)
You can't develop good code in a Safe Space.
Personally, I don't see how you develop good software in the middle of a jerk factory bro party either other than by pure luck. But that's me.
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The fact that you use the word "hate" to describe any words or actions that do not agree with your totalitarian socialist worldview, indicates that you don't have anything useful to contribute and are part of the problem.
My code doesn't care about your feelings. Go make me a sandwich.
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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http://thedailywtf.com/ [thedailywtf.com]
Take your pick. Most of those can only be described with: WTF which is not very welcoming or inclusive.
I'm sure you could flower it up and give people a short manual on how to code correctly every single fucking time they have to correct something.
Sometimes short and to the point is better, faster, easier and more productive than "oh, this code is somewhat unreadable and you're doing it in a way I would not recommend people do code, not to say you do it all the time, but ... now don't
Somehow it doesn't surprise me (Score:2, Funny)
Somebody Else's Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
The kernel is an engineering project. As such, meritocracy is the only sane way to run it - just like building bridges or ships - if your code is good then it's in, no matter who you are or what you or anyone else identifies you as. There's simply no reason to accept someone or their work if it's sub-standard no matter how hard their lives have been (or are perceived to have been).
The issue of diversity is a social issue and has to be/needs to be solved elsewhere.
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The issue of diversity is a social issue and has to be/needs to be solved elsewhere.
Exactly...
On the Internet, nobody knows you're a dog.
Or cares about it in the LKML
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Leftists who score high in the victim hierarchy are going to let you know whether you want to or not. That's so that they can then attribute anything negative you say to or about them to your supposed prejudice and bias.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
It's over (Score:3, Insightful)
The extremists from the left, the cultural Marxists, the SJWs have so far destroyed anything they got their hands on: Academia, schools, the media. Linux will be no exception.
If there is any doubt on their agenda, read "The Post-Meritocracy Manifesto", but in fact, the title says it all. What we're experiencing is a Maoist cultural revolution and the new mob rulers will install themselves in each and every corner of society.
Enforcement Kangaroos (Score:3)
Now how the Hell are we supposed to rip on someone's shitty code and general incompetence?
Maintainer's Hurtful Comment: "We don't merge kernel code just because user space was written by a retarded monkey on crack."
Contributor's Complaint: "[Piercing whine] The Maintainer's comment was harassing and hurtful by ridiculing my autism and other learning disabilities when calling me retarded, belittled both me and my contributions as unimportant by revealing my minority status as an uplifted rhesus monkey, and has created an exclusionary and hostile working environment by holding me up to ridicule by publishing private information about my struggle with non-prescription drugs."
Enforcement Kangaroos: "After careful review and deliberation, this Technical Advisory Board has determined that the while the Maintainer in question has maintained the kernel with an exceptional level of quality and transparency for many years. Further, the Technical Advisory Board finds that the Contributor has made no positive contribution of any kind an any point to this Project and an objective analysis has shown that the Contributor has proven to be an ongoing hindrance to this Project.
"Nevertheless, despite the facts uncovered by this review, the Technical Advisory Board has determined that the Maintainer has not followed or enforced the Code of Conduct in good faith, continues to express public distain and disregard for the Contributor. The TAB has decided that while the Maintainer's comments are objectively true and the Maintainer's actions are objectively justifiable, that the Maintainer is, effective immediately, permanently removed from the Project because the appearance of meanness is more important than the actual success of the Project."
Re: Not covered (Score:2, Funny)
RMS is not a kernel développer you know.
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Gender identity is about what you are- male, female, unsure, etc. Sexual identity is about what you want to fuck- male, female, both, etc.
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Right. And the code of conduct says it should be irrelevant on the mailing list as well- that people should be treated with respect regardless of all that. Sounds fine to me.
Re:Am I missing something? (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see why somebody's gender or sexual preferences even need to come up in the first place on a mailing list discussing technical issues about the code.
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Compilers don't run or manage the project.
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Sure, you should be able to behave. In an open source endeavor, I see a formal document saying so as superfluous. You want to kick out someone for being a bad actor, kick them out. It's not like they can come back and sue you for not accepting their contributions. Professional environments engage in codifying a code of conduct because they want things as clear as possible to protect against wrongful termination suits if they decide they need to terminate someone for being a racist. If the kernel commun
Re:Opinions (Score:4, Insightful)
In post-modernist theory, those two things are the same though.
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