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Open Source Windows Linux

Linux Pioneer Munich Confirms Switch To Windows 10 (techrepublic.com) 336

The German city of Munich, once seen as a open-source pioneer, has decided to return to Windows. Windows 10 will be rolled out to about 29,000 PCs at the city council, a major shift for an authority that has been running Linux for more than a decade. From a report: Back in 2003 the council decided to to switch to a Linux-based desktop, which came to be known as LiMux, and other open-source software, despite heavy lobbying by Microsoft. But now Munich will begin rolling out a Windows 10 client from 2020, at a cost of about Euro 50m ($59.6m), with a view to Windows replacing LiMux across the council by early 2023. Politicians who supported the move at a meeting of the full council today say using Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible applications and hardware drivers than it has been using a Linux-based OS, and will also reduce costs associated with running Windows and LiMux PCs side-by-side.
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Linux Pioneer Munich Confirms Switch To Windows 10

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  • Guile theme rolling

  • by MindPrison ( 864299 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:18PM (#55616973) Journal

    You have to understand users, whatever is easy - and whatever gets them trough the every day life - is what they will chose.

    I'm a Linux user since 1998. I still use the Linux platform (Mint 18.1 right now, but I was a slacker...slackware for most of the time, I just grew old and didn't want to spend endless time finetuning everything), but I use windows 10 for my gaming pleasures, and at work we use windows 10 too (I work at a HUGE worldwide company now), and it doesn't suck. In fact, I'd wager that after 1 year...windows 10 actually kinda rule. It's easy to use, it's not ugly, it's functional, it's not breaking down every second day, it's fairly well protected and it actually just work. I'm a fan already, but it was a long road, because at home - I'm one of those 50+ something that still is a gaming freak, I have the latest hardware as always (1080Ti graphics card, and the latest i7 generation motherboard and processor), and on windows 10 it just doesn't suck. Not even at work, where we have MUCH less hardware, we're using vanilla Dell laptops with i5 processors, SSD storage devices, and D6000 Dell docking stations with 3 screens connected, works like a charm every day.

    So yeah, I totally get it - if it works perfectly, if it runs smooth every day, if I don't have to concentrate on my freaking setup every day...but can concentrate just on my job - then I'm all for it!

    Good job MS, for once!

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

      This is something that often gets lost on Slashdot. People are so busy complaining about privacy (which the average user can't give a crap about), or lost work because you haven't saved your work for the night and ignore the notifications that an update is pending (which the average user can't give a crap about), and all the talk about start menus and control panels (which the average user can't give a crap about) to realise what has actually changed under the hood.

      In the mean time we have an OS that in its

      • by Kjella ( 173770 )

        Aren't you just putting put a straw man and cutting it down? The first time I saw a stable Windows machine was when I ran Win2k RTM. The last time I saw an unstable Windows machine was like early Vista like 2007-ish, probably a bad driver. If there was a Windows version that promised:

        1) Runs Windows applications including DirectX
        2) At least 10 years of security patches (like XP and Win7)
        3) No other "features" like telemetry etc.

        I'd be ready to buy and so would a lot of other people, I imagine. As an OS, I d

        • The last time I saw an unstable Windows machine was like early Vista like 2007-ish, probably a bad driver. If there was a Windows version that promised:

          Cool so we agree then and we on Slashdot can stop with the Windows is unstable and shouldn't ever run any important software then. The only difference between your and my comment is the timeline.

          But apart from the fact that I fundamentally can't trust Microsoft it's a good OS.

          Exactly. Something as I said seems to be lost on much of the IT community who do nothing but repeat tired jokes from the turn of the century. It's actually more telling how popular and widely used Microsoft's OS is *despite* their hostility towards users.

    • Windows 10 doesn't break down every second day. It just breaks down every six months or so (on a Surface Pro 4), like Ubuntu.

      Or some critical feature doesn't work out of the box, like the taskbar and start menu, due to some other undesired feature like Cortana. (I should probably let that go,...)

      In my experience, Windows 10 is becoming more like Linux, in a bad way.
      • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

        Windows 10 doesn't break down every second day. It just breaks down every six months or so (on a Surface Pro 4), like Ubuntu.

        Sorry but no it doesn't. I've been running the same load of windows since 2009 when windows 7 first came out. I have upgrade through service packs, skipped windows 8, and did a in place upgrade to 10. I've swapped out hardware several times, including complete rebuilds, and my system has been rock steady for years at a time.

        The only time it got unstable was when I had a bad harddrive in my system. I replaced it and it went right back to being rock stable.

        Of course if you have wonky hardware or yo

    • by jwhyche ( 6192 )

      I'm a Linux user since 1998. I still use the Linux platform

      Welcome to my boat. Have a seat, there is cold beer in the cooler.

      I've been apart of the Linux community since day one. I started with dual tar ball install on an Amiga 3000. I still use a headless Linux box for my household file server.

      But my general workstation is windows 10. So is my workstation at work. An the reason is it simply works 99% of the time. I don't have to fuss with strange Xwindows settings or wonder why my sound doesn't work.

      Windows just simply works.

    • by theCoder ( 23772 )

      So yeah, I totally get it - if it works perfectly, if it runs smooth every day, if I don't have to concentrate on my freaking setup every day...but can concentrate just on my job - then I'm all for it!

      There's a lot of "if" coming off that statement. Perhaps Microsoft really improved Windows with version 10. At my employer I have a Windows 7 laptop which I use mostly for compiling software (my main desktop is Linux, thankfully). The Windows interface may be familiar to most people, but as a regular Linux

    • Windows 10 is possibly the worst spyware ever made [networkworld.com]

      Quote: "Buried in the service agreement is permission to poke through everything on your PC.
    • You have to understand users, whatever is easy - and whatever gets them trough the every day life - is what they will chose.

      Nice fiction. This decision was made by greased palms, not by users.

  • by gweihir ( 88907 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:19PM (#55616975)

    The did about the most dumb thing possible: They blamed Linux for their dysfunctional organization. They will have pretty much the same problems after the move with some new ones on top. And the only sane alternative, moving everything to web-apps, was not even considered.

    What happened here is that the ones in charge let themselves be bought by MS.

    • The did about the most dumb thing possible: They blamed Linux for their dysfunctional organization. They will have pretty much the same problems after the move with some new ones on top. And the only sane alternative, moving everything to web-apps, was not even considered.

      Windows software not working on Linux is a problem that isn't fixed by Windows?
      Windows users needing to learn a different OS is a problem that isn't fixed by Windows?
      The solution to 3rd parties not supporting alternate OSes with many bespoke systems is to ask 3rd parties to move to a complete alternate cloud based platform?

      What happened here is that the ones in charge let themselves be bought by MS.

      No what happened here is that a Slashdot user has no idea about the situation and thus feels qualified to come up with solutions.
      The other thing that happened is that the same Slashdot us

      • by gweihir ( 88907 )

        Well, obviously you have no clue what went in in Munich. It is fascinating though that you think I have no idea how government works in Germany, I only grew up there...

      • What he's saying is that Linux was used as a scapegoat for broader organization problems. Statistically speaking, idiot management is going to be one of the biggest problems, and be an actual concern way more than the same tired bullet lists MS trolls trot out.
    • Really? What problems are you implying?
    • by malkavian ( 9512 )

      No, they needed to run a set of commercially available software, that had no Linux running version.
      I've seen it so often, it's painful. There just isn't the commercially developed software ecosystem for enterprises out there (well, apart from server stuff). If you can't purchase up to date commercial software to support what you want to do, there's only one avenue left.. Go back to Windows where there's a glut of it.
      Now, this could be a good money spinner for people who want to produce good software in th

  • It's probably time (Score:5, Interesting)

    by bobstreo ( 1320787 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:20PM (#55616995)

    To do a quick financial audit of the officials making this decision.

      Lobbying is really just another term for paid bribes.

    • Yes, I would be very interested in knowing how much money microsoft has spread around to governments all over the world to use their products. Billions? It's not really a fair fight is it?
      • Look at where the Microsoft HQ in Germany is located for one small hint.
        • Munchen! In the Parkstadt Schwabing. How could you not switch to Windows 10 after such a magnanimous gesture. I'd rather that my sister had sex with the Pittsburgh Penguins (all three forward lines) than switch from Linux to Windows 10. But, if you offered me enough money ...
    • Wondering the same thing. There was a recent election in Germany, but don't know if that involved local city councils also under the election. The question is, did Microsoft provide "assistance" to the winners or others already in office?
    • Lobbying is really just another term for paid bribes.

      So, let me get this straight. The only reason the city of Munich would switch back to Microsoft is because someone got bribed. Does that mean someone was bribed to switch to Linux in the first place?

      Not all lobbying is bribery, sometimes lobbying is from honest concerned citizens. If all the bad decisions a government makes were from being bribed then all the good decisions were also from bribery.

      If all lobbying is bribery then who paid for the lobbying to make drunk driving illegal? I'm not saying I su

  • Paid off (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Major_Disorder ( 5019363 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:22PM (#55617007)
    I suspect someone got paid off big time.
    Seems to me that is the only way that spending $59.6 Million on windows could be seen as a method of reducing costs.
  • Reasons (Score:5, Interesting)

    by duke_cheetah2003 ( 862933 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:22PM (#55617013) Homepage

    While no one but the actual deciders know for sure, but I'd be more than willing to step out on the limb and say: This has absolutely nothing to do with Linux or Windows fitness for the job. They've been doing it for 10 years now, I'm pretty confident any bumps were long ironed out and everything works pretty decently.

    Just as TFA said, Microsoft had been lobbying heavily. Never said they stopped. Obviously they kept at it, and finally got their foot in the door. Greed seems to be on a helluv a winning streak in our society.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by thegarbz ( 1787294 )

      They've been doing it for 10 years now, I'm pretty confident any bumps were long ironed out and everything works pretty decently.

      You've never worked in a government have you? In many cases 10 years is just the time it takes to finally get a project cancelled. I'm not saying that's what happened, by all accounts I'm sure the new MS headquarters in Munich, and the new head of the department being a happy MS user in the past had a big hand in it. But assuming that just because something has been in place for 10 years it has had it's bugs ironed out is laughable enough in a large private corporation, in a government such a statement is o

  • by prefec2 ( 875483 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:23PM (#55617021)

    MS moved its base in Germany to Munich. Subsequently, Munich had a new election for the city council. Surprisingly, the new major decided that Linux does not work and that there are too many security restrictions with Linux. This is what effective lobbying can do for you. Still other cities and towns go in the the other direction.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    Linux in the server room, Windows on the desktop.

  • by Anonymous Coward

    In the case of gnope, every release either breaks something, or takes away some functionality that distributions have to excessively patch in order to give some consistency to their userbase. And kde has never been more buggy. Just when a version starts to get stable, they ditch it and start over. The whole Linux mantra of "release early and release often" just doesn't work for desktops (or phones for that matter). Users want consistency and stability, which neither gnome or kde give them.

    • "Release new products early, then release updates to them often" is great for users.

      "Release new products early and release their complete replacements often" is bad for users.

      The Linux community does the second, rather than the first.

      Instead of this for a single tool, library, application, or environment:

      10.0 this month
      10.1 next month
      10.2 the month after that
      10.3 the start of next year

      Linux does this for a single tool, library, application or environment:

      10.0 this month
      2017.3.51 next month
      Project Congo Fre

  • Cheers (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Microsoft and the intels of the world congratulate you! Happy stolen data, Munich!

  • It is astounding to see the number of controversy theorists in the comments talking about lobbying and bribed officials. Does it really hurt your ego to accept that for a particular organization of a particular scale and type, Linux might not be the best option ?

    I am a research scientist. I spend my time analyzing large amounts of microscopy data in Python, R etc. on very capable hardware. But you know what I found ? Windows 10 does fine. Everything works. I have no reason to use Linux. I went from Linux al

    • Windows 10 does fine. Everything works. I have no reason to use Linux. I went from Linux all the time, to dual-booting Linux just in case I needed it, to Windows all the time in 10 years.

      Funny thing ... if you swap the words "windows" and "Linux", the above statement would perfectly reflect my experience over the last 10 years.

      • by nashv ( 1479253 )

        Exactly my point. There is no reason my particular choice should apply to you. And it doesn't make either of us stupid or dishonest to make disparate choices.

  • Politicians who supported the move at a meeting of the full council today say using Windows 10 will make it easier to source compatible applications and hardware drivers than it has been using a Linux-based OS

    I can fully understand why. I've been using Linux on and off for over a decade and a half, even paid for SuSE!!!!. I've run Linux Mint on a Thinkpad for a few years, no problems. Decided to put it on my desktop. Only problem is I have a NVIDIA Geforce 1060 GTX graphics card. Little did I realise just what an absolute nightmare it was going to be even to just get the Live DVD to boot to a GUI. Ended up having to re-enable onboard Intel Graphics just to be able to boot the live distro and install it. I then w

    • by xfizik ( 3491039 )
      So how is any of your troubles with a gaming video card relevant to the city of Munich choosing their desktop OS for work?
    • by JustNiz ( 692889 )

      Dude Use nVidia's Linux driver, not the stupid opensource nouveau driver that is the default on most distros only because its open, not because it actually works.

  • by evolutionary ( 933064 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @05:11PM (#55617247)
    Okay, working with a few groups that have to keep confidential data and medical data secure I can say that Windows 10 sends out data routinely that you cannot shut off that people working with such data can't afford to have leaving the organizations part of whose mandate is to protect that data. Moving to windows will probably introduce problems, is unlikely to fix any, and with Windows 10 (they can get Windows 7) they are sending out citizen data to a foreign power. (The USA loves this). This was recognized by China who told Microsoft point blank they were required to make a special China version of Windows 10 that would not send data to a foreign power. Microsoft of course said "yes" to this. If it got out that private public data was being sent directly to a foreign power, the German people would be up in arms. Germany's privacy laws are more strict than most countries. If they insist on this experiment (which will be a death march, just watch), they should at least use Widows 7.
  • Looking at how LiMux was botched one has to stand in awe and amazement over the sheer incompetence with which the project was driven against the wall. I'd love to wrap those responsible into barbed wire and shoot them into the sun. That would be a gain for humanity.

    Meanwhile Schwaebisch Hall has done the transition to Linux just fine. And without all the press and drumming.

  • A counterexample (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Voice of satan ( 1553177 ) on Friday November 24, 2017 @06:49PM (#55617615)

    Some people have argued that Linux does not work out for bureaucracies, civil servants or "large organizations". That made me laugh.

    The French Gendarmerie (miltarized police) switched to Linux. But the organization was different. For example in lieu of bitching about non microsoft word processors not being compatible enough with whatever version of microsoft word, they dropped the proprietary formats and went to the .odt format. So, microsoft incompatibilities are not their problem anymore.

    Because they made choices. And it worked out for them. A wikipedia summary here:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]

    P.S. I sense an army of astroturfers on this topic, you guys aren't good at what you are doing.

  • You heard it here, folks - 2020 will finally be the year of the Windows Desktop!
  • Sad but completely foreseeable, or at least it should have been by them. Of all tht things that could hinder Linux adoption, requirements to use Windows-only proprietary software is the one thing that can't be overcome in a reasonable fashion but should also have been easy to quantify. What were they expecting to happen when their organization apparently depended on hundreds of different Windows-only applications?

  • Windows 10 has a number of nice features, such as the UWP, support for modern hardware like touch screens (with a touch compatible interface), high resolution screens, HDR, fast wake up etc, and great integration with the cloud, especially Office 365.

    Linux may be the more solid operating system, but it offers none of the those features. So if you want to use them, Windows 10 is the winner by default.

  • Meanwhile (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Bruha ( 412869 ) on Saturday November 25, 2017 @01:25PM (#55620735) Homepage Journal

    Verizon ditched office for Google for business. Even their email is handled by google and employees can use Linux or Mac as their OS.

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