Samsung To Let Proper Linux Distros Run on Galaxy Smartphones (theregister.co.uk) 226
An anonymous reader shares a report: Samsung has announced it will soon become possible to run actual proper Linux on its Note8, Galaxy S8 and S8+ smartphones -- and even Linux desktops. Yeah, yeah, we know Android is built on Linux, but you know what we mean. Samsung said it's working on an app called "Linux on Galaxy" that will let users "run their preferred Linux distribution on their smartphones utilizing the same Linux kernel that powers the Android OS." "Whenever they need to use a function that is not available on the smartphone OS, users can simply switch to the app and run any program they need to in a Linux OS environment," Samsung says. The app also allows multiple OSes to run on a device. Linux desktops will become available if users plug their phones into the DeX Station, the device that lets a Galaxy 8 run a Samsung-created desktop-like environment when connected to the DeX and an external monitor.
Now I get to troubleshoot X windows on my phone (Score:2)
About time. (Score:5, Insightful)
About time. Why can't my phone be my PC? Plug in a monitor, wireless keyboard, and voila! Unless you are running seriously heavy software (Where you would probably use a desktop anyway) a smartphone could probably run 99% of your stuff. I am only talking as software developer here.
My daily-driver laptop is an 8GB RAM 128GB SSD i7 8 core computer.
I can get a, say, Samsung Galaxy Note8 with 6GB RAM and 128GB SSD ARM 8 core CPU. Definetly not fast as my laptop, but probably fast enough to compile some files and run a development environment.
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It's not just about the hardware. I want to be able to buy a reasonably priced phone that doesn't phone back my private life to Google and yet has apps like Uber/Lyft so that I can travel without getting ripped off by cabs. Too much to ask?
Depends on what you call "Reasonably Priced"; but you can get a CURRENT MODEL iPhone SE, with a 4.7" screen, 12 MP camera capable of shooting 4k video, 64-bit A9 Dual Core ARM, WiFi, Bluetooth, Fingerprint Reader, etc. etc. (and a headphone jack!) for only $349 for 32 GB or $449 for 128 GB, Brand New. UNLOCKED (Carrier-Free) directly from Apple! Or you can get Carrier-Subsidized models for around $15 per month.
https://www.apple.com/iphone-s... [apple.com]
Personally, I call that pretty Reasonably Priced. ...And it will
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Thank you, to both TFTC and anonymous. It looks like that it definitely does and I'll be looking into it tonight.
No problem! Glad to help!!!
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He means they don't make you the product.
And no, they don't. They just commit daylight robbery with their prices. And contribute happily to the liberal censorship in Silicon Valley.
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He means they don't make you the product. And no, they don't. They just commit daylight robbery with their prices. And contribute happily to the liberal censorship in Silicon Valley.
Oh hey, no they do. They do that too. Apple is busy selling you as a product just like Google does, they just aren't as good at it.
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erm... Get a Windows Phone with Continuum while it still exists?
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So just buy any Google phone. You know a Google account is optional right? As is running Google's Launcher, and anything else by Google on it.
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Yeah, just like I "rip off" the grocery store clerk by shopping at the grocery store with the lower prices.
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So... those farmers markets are a big no-no then. I'll keep that in mind.
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If you are happy conflating Uber with a black/grey market, then I am absolutely thrilled to return in kind.
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Life works that way. As a species we are resource-constrained, so we jockey for resources. Barring a perfect intelligence that can make perfect resource allocations, we are always going to have resource winners and losers. My kids think this is deeply unfair, and they are right. But at the end of the day, you need to get yourself into a position as a resource allocator by out-competing the rest. If you still want to live like a monk and strive to make stuff fair in that position, go nuts - it will make you
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In my case, I'd rather have a $200 phone and a separate $300 desktop that far outperforms said phone than need to buy a $600 phone to get less performance. Sync is a solved issue, so I don't really see the benefits of using a single device.
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Good luck putting that desktop in your backpack.
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You are going to carry around the dock, monitor, keyboard, and mouse for your phone? No, probably not. You leave the desktop sitting wherever it is you planned on sticking the dock.
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Now imagine you're someone who 1) wants a $600 (or more) phone anyway 2) doesn't do anything with a computer that a phone couldn't do and 3) uses your phone much more heavily than your computer. Now a phone dock starts to look more attractive.
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I'm just trying to picture the teeny-tiny little overlapping circles on the Venn diagram for how many people fit that description.
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Why can't my phone be my PC?
Because it's a PHONE, dammit!!!
Just because it has a LITTLE computer inside of it, like your Microwave Oven, DVD/BD Player, and Set Top Box, does NOT make it a "Desktop Replacement", FFS! There are a MILLION reasons why; not the least of which is an entirely different CPU architecture. Yes, I've heard of Compiling for a different Target; but that only solves 80% of the problems, and the other 20% are the toughies...
Remember, PHONES are optimized for BATTERY LIFE. Slow-Ass RAM (as compared to a modern Deskto
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Why can't my phone be my PC?
Because it's a PHONE, dammit!!!
Earth to you: no it isn't! Phones stopped being primarily phones years ago, and are now general purpose computers.
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Why can't my phone be my PC?
Because it's a PHONE, dammit!!!
Earth to you: no it isn't! Phones stopped being primarily phones years ago, and are now general purpose computers.
I get it. Do you think I don't own a Smartphone?
But seriously, there are a bunch of reasons why Smartphones/Phablets will always remain VASTLY inferior with what you can put together in a desktop or rack system, and will LIKELY remain VERY inferior with even what you can do in a laptop. For some things, we're already " there" with phones; but never kid yourself that they are in any way a replacement for desktop and laptop systems in many applications.
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About time. Why can't my phone be my PC? Plug in a monitor, wireless keyboard, and voila!
You are seriously asking? Seriously: because Android UI sucks for basically anything that does not resemble media consumption. I know what I'm talking about, I've been using Android this way for years, and it's a slit-your-wrists painful experience, with exactly one advantage: it runs on the tablet, with typically 3-8X battery life of a laptop, doesn't give you spinal curvature when carried in a backpack, and fits on an airline folding tray. Oh, and has touch screen, gps, etc... stuff that somehow didn't ma
A step in the right direction (Score:5, Insightful)
After all, it is totally ridiculous to carry around powerful universal computers and restrict them to be used as a phone and phone-type app only.
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Of course that could just mean you can get by with a cheaper, less-powerful phone. Spend the money on your upgradeable computer.
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The issue is more about the form factor : small screen, no keyboard, no mouse.
Even if my phone had all the capabilities of a full Linux PC, I don't think about any app that I would use that doesn't have a better adapted alternative on Android.
Attempts to address this issue with docks have all failed. If you want to stay mobile and do real work, the proper tool is a laptop. All solutions that involve a phone, or, to a lesser extent, a tablet, feel like a kludge.
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After all, it is totally ridiculous to carry around powerful universal computers and restrict them to be used as a phone and phone-type app only.
Actually, media consumption device, and most importantly, advertising media consumption device. Ridiculous to you, certainly, but not to the billionaires at Google.
Crouton anyone? (Score:2)
Isn't this just Crouton for Android?
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Well somebody caught the drift ... (Score:2)
... on how to catch the attention of the opinion leaders. Sort of like Apple with Mac OS X back in the day.
If they can get feasible convergence on its way, more power to them. It's just a shame that I find Samsung's phones and their UI so ugly.
But this might prompt other vendors to follow suit and fingers get convergence going. It's not that today's phones aren't powerful enough.
I wish (Score:5, Interesting)
I wish they would just run Linux natively and dump the whole Android part.
Re:I wish (Score:4, Insightful)
This to me sounds like the Worst Idea Ever (TM).
A few companies have put a huge amount of effort into making GNU/Linux usable on a smart phone and have failed spectacularly. You only wish for Linux on your smartphone because of altruism not because you have put any thought into how well in its current form it would actually work.
Wrong type of company (Score:2)
A few companies have put a huge amount of effort into making GNU/Linux usable on a smart phone and have failed spectacularly
Those companies were working at the problem from the hardest possible angle... if you are doing software only then you have to reverse engineer all the device drivers. If you ARE the hardware vendor on the other hand you have significantly more power over manipulating this effort (albeit at other cost).
Samsung have opted for the most economical option possible here by actually sidestepping that whole hardware support issue, but it's a pretty big compromise (kernel level virtualisation)... By using the same
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Sorry but you have that backwards. The spectacular failures were all the result of what the phone was trying to be and none at all to do with the hardware / drivers which basically were provided by partners as it was. Driver support was not some great difficulty, and it wasn't some basement neckbeard reverse engineering some half-arsed support to bake into the kernel.
GUI design is hard. GUI design for a touch is even harder. Adapting an existing GUI to a completely different form factor universally results
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GUI design is hard. GUI design for a touch is even harder. Adapting an existing GUI to a completely different form factor universally results in the train-wre[c]k...
What is so hard about adding optional, familiar window decorations to existing Android full-screen windows? Just do it like QT, those sunk research costs are so done years ago, there isn't a lot it doesn't already do in a perfectly elegant way. For one thing, let's have our fucking sensible keyboard shortcuts back, it's not like that essential functionality has to be reinvented or anything.
You never had an N900 (Score:3)
The N900 ran native Linux and it ROCKED.
I could compile and run just about any unix/X-windows program on that thing.
It had USB networking built in.
I could write apps using standard python libraries like gtk. You could add/modify GUI widgets with python scripts.
It was a Debian system that used standard repositories with thousands of apps.
Plus it made phone calls. It could make cell calls, voip calls, XMPP calls, all from the same app.
Yes, the average moron would not care about most of this stuff, but for a
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Baloney.
If my phone ran Linux I could simply dump my work laptop/desktop and keep/do everything on my phone.
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If my phone ran Linux I could simply dump my work laptop/desktop and keep/do everything on my phone
If your Linux also includes support for all the phone functionality you currently get with Android. That's a pretty big if. Not rocket science, but practical obstacles are in the way, mostly put there by vested interests.
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I wish they would just run Linux natively and dump the whole Android part.
You do; but hardly anybody outside of this website would agree with you.
As shitty as Android is (and it IS shitty!), it's STILL more-optimized for being a "phone appliance" than anything that would run under stock Desktop Linux.
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As shitty as Android is (and it IS shitty!), it's STILL more-optimized for being a "phone appliance" than anything that would run under stock Desktop Linux.
That's a broad claim. One thing a stock Linux system can do is, run thousands or millions of user-installed programs. For example, when you run Kodi, it makes your Linux desktop look and act exactly like a DVR, because, ahem, Kodi is exactly the same software the DVRs run (on top of basically stock Linux, for that matter).
In case it isn't clear, what I just said is: run Android as an application, if you must.
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As shitty as Android is (and it IS shitty!), it's STILL more-optimized for being a "phone appliance" than anything that would run under stock Desktop Linux.
That's a broad claim. One thing a stock Linux system can do is, run thousands or millions of user-installed programs. For example, when you run Kodi, it makes your Linux desktop look and act exactly like a DVR, because, ahem, Kodi is exactly the same software the DVRs run (on top of basically stock Linux, for that matter).
In case it isn't clear, what I just said is: run Android as an application, if you must.
Yeah, that's a practical example! Kodi's a dumbass pseudo-embedded application, that you should be able to run on any 8 bit microcontroller from the 1980s. Impressive that Linux running on hardware easily few thousand times more powerful could pull that off, LOL!!!
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...a copy of Unix, might as well use the real thing and run iOS.
Exactly!
Both iOS and macOS are Darwin-based at their Core.
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Because there's lots of Linux apps that I'd like to run on my phone.
And because then I can unistall all the pointless crapware and spyware that I dont even want on my phone.
But mostly because I could then finally get my phone to work how I actually want it to, not how Samsung/Google thinks I should change myself to fit their phone.
So (Score:3)
Friggin awesome (Score:3)
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Serious, obviously. It just made up my mind to pick up an S8... I've been waffling about which way to go for my next phone for a while now.
After 8 long years, the Nokia N900 done right. (Score:3)
Bloat (Score:3)
So, while I appreciate the theme of being able to run a full blooded Linux environment, it doesn't fix the fact that the basic OS provided by Samsung is complete crap and not worth keeping on the phone. Unnecessary processes and constant unwelcome intrusions are the main reason that I replace the OS. Adding a compatibility layer doesn't remove the underlying problem that Samsung's out of the box OS experience is craptacular and abusive.
I'd run a pixel over this any day.
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It used to be, especially prior to KitKat, but it stopped being "complete crap" a long time ago and now is little more than personal preferences. Samsung's launcher is a bit weird, but easily replaced. Underneath though it's pretty much as Android as Pixel and seems to run just as well.
"Unnecessary processes" don't run. Hell half the shit people complain about are basic functionality of the phone. If you want a feature phone, get a feature phone instead of a phone with features. Most of the "unnecessary pro
Year of the Desktop! (Score:3)
Wouldn't it be hilarious if 2018 turned out to be the year of the desktop because of mobile phone adoption?
Disappointed (Score:5, Informative)
I though at first that Samsung was unlocking the bootloader so you can install the OS of your choice.
But no, this is an app. Meh.
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Disappointed? Why? When have you ever not been able to unlock the bootloader of a Samsung device other than maybe on the day of release?
Hell I used to preference Samsung phones because other OS images were so well supported on them. But now ... workphone. Sigh. Just as well they got a bit better at making software.
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Yes, all the Samsung phones can be cracked to unlock the bootloader (sooner or later). This is what I do. I was disappointed because I thought this might have indicated a change in attitude about these things from Samsung, but it's not.
Is this a good idea? (Score:2)
Considering that Samsung can barely get updates out for their devices as it is, how do they have the bandwidth to put out linux distros? The last Samsung device I owned was an S3, and based on my experience with it I will never own another Samsung device again. Trusting Samsung to support their devices is like the frog trusting the scorpion on it's back not to sting him.
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Considering that Samsung can barely get updates out for their devices as it is, how do they have the bandwidth to put out linux distros?
What the fuck are you talking about when was the last time you use...
The last Samsung device I owned was an S3
ooooh. Yeah man, get with the times. Samsung have kept their devices up to date with security patches since the patching framework in Kitkat was released. Hell even the Galaxy S4 received updates this year.
VR + BT Keyboard w/ USB-C port (Score:2)
Programing on a 6in screen? No way! But... (Score:2)
Checking a .c or .h file to clarify something, or checking and quick changing a config file, or checking a document or making a quick memo in Libreoffice, or quick answering an email in Thunderbird, or quick testing a website with desktop Mozila while conmuting or taking a break in the coffe shop... count me in!!!
the posibilites are endless.
It would be mighty fine that all my environment is with me all the time, and in my pocket, not in a magical cloud, were you live and die by the quality of the connectivi
Already possible, since the first Android phone? (Score:2)
I could swear that I once installed and ran some version of Debian on the first Android Phone, the HTC Dream.
Obviously super slow, and IIRC, the display worked via VNC. Was a fun little thing to show off back in 2009, though!
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I get what Samsung is trying to do, and while I think the idea is clever, I'm not sure the "Dex" platform is the solution.
Clearly Samsung should've called Motorola for some been-there-done-that information. Moto tried this whole thing with the Atrix line (which was an awesome phone with the best biometric implementation), and it BOMBED!!! Web-dock, Desktop-dock, TV-dock; no-no-no.
I get that they exist to make money, but if they think a few thousand Penguin worshippers are going to affect the bottom line...might be time for some new employees. Also, I'll be interested in the EULA.
P.S. "Penguin worshippers" is meant lovingly...
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I was seriously tempted by the Atrix, but the main thing that turned me off was the expense of the various docks. There's nothing the docks do that shouldn't be possible with a simple MHL cable and bluetooth peripherals, or a relatively cheap dock/hub. I believe there were hacks to force the Atrix into webtop mode with other things, but I can't recall now.
It looks like the DeX dock is just under $100 on Amazon which isn't terrible, but could really add up if you wanted one in multiple locations. Give me a c
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Forget the cheap cable...miracast should be the answer (and charge a DeX license fee instead of selling hardware if they want).
I actually proposed this to the engineers on-site for the launch event and caused some consternation at the time. I was "that guy" asking for the feature they didn't have, didn't think of, and pretty much would make their product useless :)
With that said, I have one and use it. It needs some refinement around the apps and all to be truly useful by itself. Instead it does work as
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Didn't one of them have a cellphone that docked in a laptop chassis that never made it to market. The cellphone that can dock and become more is a good idea but the hardware hasn't been ready, it probably still isn't but it's a lot closer.
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It's not quite that the hardware hasn't been ready - it's that the natural audience for the hardware (those businesses that would want to stock a bunch of generic cubicles) is still stuck with Windows. And now with Windows Phone out the window, that audience isn't likely to be served. Of course, there's that other audience (schools, etc, that hand out Chromebooks) that might do well with a dock students can use to plug in their own phones and have a desktop-style browser with all their personal stuff as w
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The new Windows 10 ARM is supposed to be out in December depending how expensive it is... it will be running on the same soc.
Re:Yeah, but can it run linux? (Score:4, Interesting)
An S8+ with Dex system is actually very close to perfect for me, what Canonical's Unity aspired to be probably. Even the Standard Android Dex desktop "thing" is pretty close to acceptably good. It's actually only really let down by the quality of the apps, I can't find a decent resizable "sh"-ish terminal or SSH client. There's quiet a few but they all have their own little oddities. After that there is a little bit of clunkiness in the GUI because Android isn't really "desktop" orientated but it's better than some tablet UI's.
They're very, very close. If this works well they'll potentially have nailed it.
Re: Yeah, but can it run linux? (Score:4, Informative)
Termux. launches Bash and provides a debian-style package management system for extra tools. think Cygwin for Android.
If you have a [physical keyboard then your phone can essentially become just a screen.
The one thing I wish it could do on a stock phone is talk to a USB-OTG serial adapter. unfortunately that requires root and I haven't felt like modifying my phone's base system to get it.
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If you have a [physical keyboard then your phone can essentially become just a screen
I busted my ass to get this 27 inch screen, so you'll have to pardon me when I give this bit of news a big whoop-dee-freakin-doo
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An S8+ with Dex system is actually very close to perfect for me, what Canonical's Unity aspired to be probably. Even the Standard Android Dex desktop "thing" is pretty close to acceptably good. It's actually only really let down by the quality of the apps, I can't find a decent resizable "sh"-ish terminal or SSH client. There's quiet a few but they all have their own little oddities. After that there is a little bit of clunkiness in the GUI because Android isn't really "desktop" orientated but it's better than some tablet UI's.
They're very, very close. If this works well they'll potentially have nailed it.
Close to perfect?
So you won't mind having to RECOMPILE every-single-Linux-Application from scratch for ARM, AND solving all the x86-isms in it?
Yeah, sounds like a GREAT idea... NOT! Just like that ARM laptop that MS announced a day or so ago...
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This was the problem with Ubuntu Touch. I had the tablet and would have loved it except it's a different processor architecture and the software you are used to is not available. They did provide LibreOffice and a couple other minor things but other than that there is only so much that can be done in HTML 5. Maybe if a major manufacturer like Samsung does this and provides a relatively easy IDE or even starts / funds a project to compile software for the architecture it will take off.
Well, speaking from Mac experience, most, if not all, of the Linux -> macOS Cross-Compiling tools (like Fink and MacPorts) and sites that supported them haven't exploded in popularity over the years (although they ARE still being actively maintained!), and that is WITH the same Processor Architecture!
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I'll second the recommendation for Termux. SInce you can install python, clang, go, lua, etc. and a ton of console apps, you get a goodly portion of Linux desktop functionality right there on Android. No X, but you can be a Real Programmer and use the CLI.
I'm finding less use for Linux each day. (Score:2, Interesting)
Linux used to be the core of my computing experience. I used it on my desktop, I used it on my laptop, I used it on my servers, and I used it on my phone (through Android).
But changes within the Linux ecosystem have been ruining the experience for me. Systemd brought me some serious reliability problems. While GNOME 2 was excellent, GNOME 3 has been terrible. Wayland has never worked on any system I've tried it on, and X is feeling long in the tooth. PulseAudio meant that my sound would often not work. Even
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And just like clockwork, the AC above was punish-modded by all the Fandroids and Linuxbots, because it praised Apple and denigrated Linux and Android.
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And just like clockwork, the AC above was punish-modded by all the Fandroids and Linuxbots, because it praised Apple and denigrated Linux and Android.
And, just maybe, because of being a lazy-ass cowardly AC. Just maybe.
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And just like clockwork, the AC above was punish-modded by all the Fandroids and Linuxbots, because it praised Apple and denigrated Linux and Android.
And, just maybe, because of being a lazy-ass cowardly AC. Just maybe.
Don't try to. Kid a kidder: An anti-Apple AC does NOT get Punish-Modded on these here pages!
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an ass kicking would be more appropriate. maybe grab you by the feet and bash him with your corpse.
Big words coming from an ANONYMOUS COWARD.
Logon and say that, fucker!
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...Linux's filesystems have stagnated, with us still using the old and limited ext4 FS, while other OSes are getting excellent modern filesystems like ZFS.
You may think that ZFS is excellent right up to the point you side-by-side it with Ext4, and discover it makes your desktop run like a tablet and hogs all the memory. And if/when ZFS blows up, there is no such thing as e2fsck to bail your ass out.
ZFS always sounds great, to hear people talk, who never side-by-sided it with anything else. In reality, it's a giant creeping ooze of a grandiose exercise in system bloatware. For one thing, there is no way a file system should ever inhale the volume manager insi
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While I haven't read anything about how this works beyond the Slashdot summary, it sounds to me like this could appeal to the type of people who have a smartphone as their only computing device. They may not want to get a "new computer", but if they could plug their phone into a dock when they want to write a document, or browse the web with a normal keyboard in mouse, they might go for it.
A room full of... (Score:5, Insightful)
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As someone who daily needs VT-100 emulation... I appreciate the imagery behind horse-drawn computers.
We do that with laptops (no assigned CITY) (Score:2)
Our company does basically that, with laptops. Most people work from home most of the time, but I can go into any of the company's office buildings and find a seat. Of course I have to use my badge to get into the building.
Most people have a "home" office or cube they *normally* use, but you're not restricted to only using that one. If you feel like sitting by the window today, do so. I use "my" office once a week, working from home 4 days a week. When I'm not there (most of the time), someone visiting fr
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Yep, hot-desking, where you just plug in.
It happened where I worked with consultants. The idea was that they were too busy with work out in the field with clients to require a permanent desk.
Yo dawg. (Score:5, Funny)
We heard you like Linux, so we put Linux in your Linux so you can run Linux in your Linux.
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And then, run Android inside your Linux on Linux running Linux.
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Aren't you late to the party? In 2017, you should be lecturing us on correct use of preferred gender pronouns and evils of Columbus Day and Cinco De Mayo. Although I am curious on overlap between language Nazi crowds now and then. Maybe there is a generational tradition too?
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why it should be called GNU/Linux, e.g., often iterated by Richard Stallman
Well of COURSE he would say that. He's behind GNU and would love his name associated with Linux. Don't assume his main push for technical accuracy is technical accuracy.
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Mod parent up. This is Slashdot, not Huffington Post. We should expect a higher level of accuracy in the details we know most about.
Regarding the labeling, Stallman cleared up that confusion decades ago, by insisting that the complete OS be called GNU/Linux. More recently, in 2011, he also made the Android naming clear:
"Android is very different from the GNU/Linux operating system because it contains very little of GNU. Indeed, just about the only component in common between Android and GNU/Linux is Linux,
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Which always confused me with Microsoft and Canonical's collaboration.
Windows Subsystem for Linux contains very little Linux and mostly GNU running atop an NT kernel.
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Android contains Linux, but not GNU; thus, Android and GNU/Linux are mostly different." -- RMS
No they aren't, they are only mostly different if you try to pretend that the kernel is a simple little component. It isn't, it is in fact a gigantic pile of literally hundreds of essential APIs with tentacles reaching into essentially every library and application on the device, whether the device is running Android on top, or libc, or whatever. And BTW, Android bionic is a gnu libc clone with very few differences at the API leve. It's really disingenuous to say it has nothing to do with standard Linux.
Wha
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There is also Debian noroot [google.com] with some performance hit (it rewrite paths with strace). It's a shame that anything uses hardcoded paths in 2017. Ideally userland should run on Android/ChromeOS with at most a recompile and replacement "X" libraries that do native graphics.
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Even that's not true. Have you ever tried to downgrade to an older iOS release?
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Even that's not true. Have you ever tried to downgrade to an older iOS release?
That's a matter of policy (Code-Signing); not a technical restriction.
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Which means that "Apple....lets you" is false. Maybe read what I replied to.
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Just because you can't install it after they stop signing it doesn't mean you can't run it. It will run just fine, if it's installed. Sheesh!
Tru dat!
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And Sailfish running on Xperia.