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Microsoft Operating Systems Windows Linux

Microsoft Exec Urges Linux Developers To Try Windows 10 (softpedia.com) 403

Posted by msmash from the Microsoft-loves-Linux dept.
An anonymous reader shares a Softpedia article: Microsoft has finally acknowledged the potential that the open-source world in general, and Linux in particular, boasts, so the company is exploring its options to expand in this area with every occasion. Most recently, an episode posted on Channel 9 and entitled "Improvements to Bash on Windows and the Windows Console" with senior program manager Rich Turner calls for Linux developers to give up on their platforms for Windows 10. "Fire up a Windows 10 Insiders' build instance and run your code, run your tools, host your website on Apache, access your MySQL database from your Java code," he explained. Turner went on to point out that the Windows subsystem for Linux is there to provide developers with all the necessary tools to code just like they'd do it on Linux, all without losing the advantages of Windows 10. "Whatever it is that you normally do on Linux to build an application: whether it's in Go, in Erlang, in C, whatever you use, please, give it a try on Bash WSL, and importantly file bugs on us. It really makes our life a lot easier and helps us build a product that we can all use and be far more productive with, he continued. Editor's note: The original title from Softpedia was edited because it was misleading. A Microsoft employee doesn't represent the entire company (at least in this instant he wasn't speaking for the company), and at no point has he asked "all Linux developers" to "give up" on Linux.
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Microsoft Exec Urges Linux Developers To Try Windows 10 More

Microsoft Exec Urges Linux Developers To Try Windows 10

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  • LOL (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday November 28, 2016 @01:41PM (#53378767)
    Yeah, sure...

    • Certainly. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Right after Microsoft releases Office for Linux.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        Not even then, Windows 'tis an abomination unto mine eyes. Never touch, for it is unclean. And Office isn't sweetening the deal.

    • Re:LOL (Score:5, Funny)

      by stooo ( 2202012 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @03:35PM (#53379771) Homepage

      >> Microsoft Update Servers Left All Azure RHEL Instances Hackable --> Microsoft Exec Urges Linux Developers To Try Windows 10

      MS is always in for a good joke :)

  • Why? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MightyMartian ( 840721 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @01:45PM (#53378787) Journal

    Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this? It's not as if Windows 10 offers any significant, or even real, architectural advantage, and it's not like Linux doesn't have plenty of its own development tools. So far as I can tell, Windows 10 has absolutely no developer advantages at all, and in fact, simply represents a pointless extra layer for any developer working on Linux.

    You know, I almost preferred the Gates-Ballmer Microsoft, because it was brilliantly maniacal. The new Microsoft is just a whining pathetic pack of halfwits who can't really even decide what direction their company should go. Sure, they may be more open source friendly, but so the fuck what?

    • So far as I can tell, Windows 10 has absolutely no developer advantages at all

      In the mobile and server fields, I'd agree. But in the desktop field, the advantage of Windows is in the economies of scale of having far more users than X11/Linux has.

      • But the whole point of this plea isn't to get more Linux developers writing Windows software, but rather to switch to their Ubuntu-on-Win10 subsystem to continue developing Windows software.

      • Windows does with developer tools.

      • The desktop is running Linux. It is just in your hand, and not on your desk anymore.

        Desktops became laptops, became Smart Phones. The modern "desktop" is touch based running on your phone.

        IF Microsoft could explain how to develop Android (or iOS) on Windows 10 is better than any other platform, I'd be all ears.

        • Re:Desktop Windows has more users than X11/Linux (Score:5, Insightful)

          by fisted ( 2295862 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @02:03PM (#53379009)

          The modern "desktop" is touch based running on your phone.

          But what device do you use to do actual work then?

          • I can use anything I get my hands on. I have windows servers I can RDP in from just about any device I have. I have Google Drive for my documentation that surpasses anything Microsoft has to offer, and again, I can have access from just about any device I have. I have SSH to manage my Linux Servers, which I have access from just about any device I have.

            So, I am not sure what you mean by "actual work" ;)

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by Clsid ( 564627 )

              DevOps or MIS perhaps, but I really would like to see you programming without a proper workstation or laptop.

              • I can write programs on ChromeOS just as easy as Windows or Mac. ChromeOS is Linux based. I can program fine on Raspberry Pi and Ardruino , with a keyboard ... just fine. What you lack is imagination. Your limitation is "proper".

                Or, as my dad used to say ... "A poor workman always blames his tools"

            • I can use anything I get my hands on. I have windows servers I can RDP in from just about any device I have. I have Google Drive for my documentation that surpasses anything Microsoft has to offer, and again, I can have access from just about any device I have. I have SSH to manage my Linux Servers, which I have access from just about any device I have.

              So, I am not sure what you mean by "actual work" ;)

              I've tried SSH over phone to my servers, works nicely for monitoring, works terrible for writing code. YMMV.

              • Re: (Score:3)

                by Fwipp ( 1473271 )

                Agreed, I've done it a few times for easy or urgent bugs, and it's not fun.

                Interestingly, as much as I love vim on the desktop, it's so much more useful (comparatively) when you're stuck on a phone keyboard.

          • Smart Phones, and Tablets

          • Re:Desktop Windows has more users than X11/Linux (Score:5, Funny)

            by thegarbz ( 1787294 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @03:52PM (#53379877)

            But what device do you use to do actual work then?

            I do all my real written on by phone. I can't think of anything else that souls by neuter. Isn't in typing this puts using predictive heresies to you right vote.

            - Posted from a Samsung Galaxy S. Please forgive the typos.

      • Your economy of scale is being thinned by CIO's that think cost is important.

      • Re: (Score:3)

        by Lussarn ( 105276 )

        So far as I can tell, Windows 10 has absolutely no developer advantages at all

        In the mobile and server fields, I'd agree. But in the desktop field, the advantage of Windows is in the economies of scale of having far more users than X11/Linux has.

        I'll be sure to tell the 1% of developers still building apps for desktop OS:es.

        Newflash: It's a dead market. The web won.

    • We are talking desktop here now, right? Microsoft used to have legions of developers, and neither Apple nor Linux ever came close. So where are they now? Has breaking things since the journey to Windows 8 ticked them off? Also, iirc, Linux and Unix APIs are completely different from win64, so how is this something that a Linux developer can even do?

    • Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this?

      As far as I'm concerned, two reasons: First,because I'm developing cross-platform software, and if I don't have to reboot or go to a VM, bonus. Second, because Visual Studio is a fucking fantastic IDE compared to the IDEs available on Linux. KDevelop is alright.

      If your application is linux-only, and you don't need it to also run on windows, then yeah, I'm with you. Work in the environment the app will be used in. However, their new ability to build for Linux from Windows, if it works well (and that's a

      • Each to their own I suppose but I do write cross platform (server/system) software and prefer to write it in Linux and only boot Windows on Virtualbox in order to create a Windows binary in order to spend as little time in Windows as possible. For me productivity would go down the drain if I where forced to work in Windows only even with access to the Linux subsystem.

      • Second, because Visual Studio is a fucking fantastic IDE compared to the IDEs available on Linux. KDevelop is alright.

        What are your views on Eclipse? I installed Neon a week ago and I'm still waiting for it to start.

    • Re:Why? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by TheCarp ( 96830 ) <sjc AT carpanet DOT net> on Monday November 28, 2016 @01:59PM (#53378969) Homepage

      If you mean "try it" or "use it sometimes" then there are lots of reasons, esp if you need to maintain a windows box for any reason (there are some games I really like and have had too many headaches trying to switch)

      I would much prefer to do any and all development/real work on a Unix platform and preferably linux. However... having the tools I know and love available to me is always a bonus....even if its in the ridiculously stupid, disrespectful surveillance malware of an OS Windows 10 really aspires to be.

      I would never trust Windows as a platform. Its a game box, the windows 10 PC is a glorified game console that also doubles as an acceptable platform for shit-talking on the web.

      That will always be the extend of its usefulness, because that is as far as I can trust it.

    • That's, " whining pathetic pack of H1B halfwits"; personally, it makes more sense if one uses "zombies" instead of "halfwits."

    • Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this?

      Mainly because some of us have jobs where we need to use commercial applications Illustrator, MS Office etc. for teaching and admin and yet still want to be able to code for research. It used to be that many of us in this situation used Macs because they combined an underlying UNIX OS with the ability to run commercial software. Sadly Apple is going off the rails now and while I used to despise Windows XP and earlier (the last ones I ever really encountered), Windows 10 is a very different beast.

      I've on

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by TWX ( 665546 )

      Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this? It's not as if Windows 10 offers any significant, or even real, architectural advantage, and it's not like Linux doesn't have plenty of its own development tools. So far as I can tell, Windows 10 has absolutely no developer advantages at all, and in fact, simply represents a pointless extra layer for any developer working on Linux.

      While I agree with you, back when Microsoft's .net platform came out an acquaintance of mine got deeply involved in the Mono project. I felt this was the exact wrong approach to take given Microsoft's embrace/extend/expunge model, but he was undeterred.

      As far as I am concerned, as long as the OS is essentially reportware I want to stay as far away from it as I can. Bad enough I can't avoid Windows 8.1 on a particular convertible tablet/laptop, I have no interest in running Windows 10 when it will repor

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by wasted ( 94866 )

      Why?

      Masochism?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Luthair ( 847766 )
      As a long time Windows & Linux user. The Windows 7 desktop was by far the best, however the Windows 10 is categorically terrible.

    • Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this?

      To get longer build times because of slower process launching?

    • You know, I almost preferred the Gates-Ballmer Microsoft, because it was brilliantly maniacal. The new Microsoft is just a whining pathetic pack of halfwits who can't really even decide what direction their company should go.

      You've got to be kidding. The new Microsoft under Satya is *far* more entertaining: advertising right on the desktop, spyware baked in, forced "upgrades", forced updates and reboots while trying to work... the level of whining from Windows users is higher than ever with this stuff, and

    • Why the fuck would any Linux developer want to do this?

      The quote in the original posting is incomplete:

      "Fire up a Windows 10 Insiders' build instance and run your code, run your tools, host your website on Apache, access your MySQL database from your Java code"

      ...send telemetry data about what you're developing to Microsoft so that they can bring a competing product to market before you, making it look as if you're just copying Microsoft.

  • Uh... sure. How much is worth to you? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by mark-t ( 151149 ) <markt AT nerdflat DOT com> on Monday November 28, 2016 @01:47PM (#53378803) Journal

    Because seriously, there is positively no way I will ever put Windows on any computer that I ever own unless I am being paid what I think my time is worth for the inconvenience.

    So since it's clearly not worth your time to pay me to use it, it's not worth mine to install it.

    • Re: (Score:3)

      by skids ( 119237 )

      But they did say please:

      please, give it a try on Bash WSL

      If you're going to solicit charity, IMO you should be a charity, not a for-profit company.

  • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by tepples ( 727027 )

      Major video game consoles are even more closed and more proprietary than desktop Windows, yet they somehow still have companies developing applications for them.

    • This assumes that everyone who uses Linux cares about open-source software and isn't using it because of the price (free) or because it's just a good tool/solution for their problem. You can get more people to use Linux for the latter reasons than because of FOSS principles.

      Even if I were an FOSS zealot, if you could prove to me that using Windows 10 to develop my FOSS software made me considerably more productive, I'd be a bit of a fool not to use it. Ideology is worth less in my book that being pragmat
  • It's never been the ability to run Linux programs on Windows that's kept me from moving to Windows 10, I can build just about any program designed for Linux to make use of Windows...perhaps with a bit of code fiddling depending on how ingrained Linux support was made. What keeps me from swapping to Windows 10 is the fucking back doors that MS wants to run by default....and the fact that Windows 7 still runs quite well inside the sandbox.
    • Exactly, technically it seems Win 10 is pretty good. What kills it for me it's the hideous mobile-like UI but mainly the spying and blatant pushing of Ms' own products inside of Windows itself. An OS should let the user take control. Windows 10 takes part of that control away from the user but most of all an OS should not have spying nor publicity.

      • What really irks me about Win10 is the instability of some of its feature. The Start Menu, even fully updated, seems prone to some pretty strange failures, all of which end up requiring weird DISM commands to fix. On my workplace network, we just back up user profiles, and when the Start Menu or Cortana go screwy, we just wipe out the profile and replace it with a week-old backup. Part of the problem here, I suspect, is MS moving to XML files, and the greater likelihood, or so it seems, of those files being

      • technically it seems Win 10 is pretty good. What kills it for me it's the hideous mobile-like UI but mainly the spying and blatant pushing of Ms' own products inside of Windows itself.

        How about the forced updates and surprise reboots? How about notification popups in the middle of full screen slide presentations? How about the endless stream of malware infections? How about the zillion horrible annoyances that one tends to forget about until they bite you?

        How about not being able to look at the source when you want to know what's wrong with it?

  • It's not how well the OS operates. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    During development of any project, configuration and the ability to own the software environment often comes into play. It really comes down to, I'd rather not have them in my system changing things without my permission.

  • Comment removed (Score:3)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @01:52PM (#53378869)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • I'm using a W10 work laptop. Just this morning I pulled up the Calc app for some minor numerical twiddling. Just as I was dismissing it*, it had some pop over asking me how I was enjoying the app (or something to that effect). And I used to regularly get notifications asking me how I felt about W10 and would I recommend it to my friends. And lets not forget that W10 updates keeping bring back shit that you don't want or need**

    I know that at some point will have to get a W10 system for my home dev work,

  • No. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Remove the forced updates and spyware first.

  • Unfortunately it is the airheads at Canonical that helped them with this. It was obvious that this would help Windows only and Ubuntu showed themselves to be so clueless and easily taken advantage of to go along with it. It is an advantage on the MS side since it gives people a reason to use Windows rather than Linux and thus hurt the Linux kernel. Of course many people know that Windows will take away the ability to control and audit the OS and would bring people under the enslavement of the Windows OS, a

    • Honestly, I stopped using Ubuntu about six years ago, and went with straight-up Debian (though SystemD has irritated me a bit). I have no intention of returning to Ubuntu.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Dwedit ( 232252 )

      Wat? They could have used any distro for this, didn't have to be Ubuntu. Once you have Kernel land all nice and emulated, you can take any linux Userland and run it on there.

  • Why would I EVER want to run Java from Apache?
    This guy is just throwing around some random buzzwords he remembers from the previous decade.

  • Advantages of Windows? For development? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward

    "Turner went on to point out that the Windows subsystem for Linux is there to provide developers with all the necessary tools to code just like they'd do it on Linux, all without losing the advantages of Windows 10"

    lol, wut?

    There has never been a time developing on Linux where I thought, "gee, I wish I were on Windows right now." When I'm on Windows, I hate it. Everything is so tedious on Windows, and everything from the registry to using escape characters for path delimiters just makes no sense.

  • I develop daily on OSX, Linux, and Windows. Guess what, ALL operating systems SUCK. The strengths of one tend to be the weakness of others.

    Windows 7 works perfectly fine for my needs. I neither want nor need your spyware laden Windows 10.

  • Please go monkey dance "developers!" to your visualbasic developers instead!
    Even if we can run linux tools on windows kernel, the system is still to heavy, outside our control... and have a still shitty company behind, just look to all the user tracking MS added to it and "edge is safer than firefox and chrome" bullshit... not, MS is still a shitty company

    on the good side... MS is clearly jumping to the "then you win" step from the First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then yo [brainyquote.com]

  • If your platform is good, then you don't have to beg people to use it.

  • host your website on NOT IIS , access your NOT SQL Server database

    Wow, somebody's trying to get NOT EMPLOYED today.

  • Advantages for whom? Microsoft and its extreme data harvesting?

  • The irony here is that my experience with Windows 10 is what finally drove me to switch to Linux full time on my personal laptop.

    • I'm in the same boat. Once I looked at the stream of data being sent back to Microsoft, I formatted my remaining laptops with Linux Mint. If I have to use Windows (I only use Windows 7) for a project, I spin it up in a VM.

      I see no advantage to Windows 10 whatsoever. It's the spyware that interrupts ("How are you enjoying this App?") or worse, plays sneaky Pete and does things without your permission or actively misleads you (e.g. making the X actually download and install a brand new OS).

      No, Microsoft has i

  • ...so they can use their "telemetry" to sell you to advertisers.

    Great argument, there, Microsoft. Since changing all the end-user agreements so they're all biased toward M$'s income, and their operational assumption that YOU bought your computer, but M$ owns it, lock, stock and barrel...sure, let's all start using the unnecessary and irrelevant "Windows 10" layer to build Linux apps on.

    Bellevue seems to be surrounded by mirrors, reflecting every image back to it's occupants.

  • I use Linux because I care a lot about my freedom and privacy. Why would I subject myself to such an OS/product in stark contrast with what I care about, and as a developer, create things to encourage others to do so too? Come back when you care more about freedom and privacy than about maximum profits.... see you never.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Over my dead Zune! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @02:20PM (#53379149) Journal

    Over my dead Zune!

  • Local BBQ joint asks Orthodox Jews to try pork (Score:3)

    by istartedi ( 132515 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @02:25PM (#53379191) Journal

    Film at 11.

  • Linux Developers know, why they use linux. They know windows. Of course, who doesn't. Most know OSX. And they are linux developers. And they know, how to do stuff efficiently on linux and what a PITA it is to use windows for the same things.
    Why does MS even think, they can convice them (expect with a lot of money, of course)? I guess the people who try an image campaign, never learned linux themselfes.

  • I actually did install this, and I have to say it's pretty good. MS did a decent job with this.

  • Turner went on to point out that the Windows subsystem for Linux is there to provide developers with all the necessary tools to code just like they'd do it on Linux, all without losing the advantages of Windows 10.

    I assume he means good compatibility with modern games and a greatly lightened wallet?

  • Microsoft Exec Urges Windows 10 Linux Compatibility Layer Developers To Try Native Windows 10 Code

    I mean, after all, you've switched to Windows. Why go through all the extra trouble of writing code that would run on Linux? We've got some wonderful vendor lock-in for you.

  • First they ignore you,
    then they laugh at you,
    then they fight you,
    then you win.

    -- Mahatma Gandhi

  • And maybe it will be worth my time to look at it, or not. Right now, Linux does everything I need. Unless there's a compelling advantage to Windows 10, then no.

  • Why would it be desirable to run bash on Windows 10 when I'm going to get a better experience using bash on anything else be that Linux, BSD, either native or virtually. I can understand for some people this might be their only choice, but that doesn't make it good, it's just making the best of a bad situation. If they want me to try it, they'll have to make it better than on Linux, not just "good enough to ship". Because if I'm going to use Windows 10, it had better have some concrete benefit given all

  • If you are a developer working for a corporation, there are tools that run only in Windows (Outlook/Exchange, lotus notes come to mind). Instead of developing in Linux and using a VM for the Windows tools (with the corresponding comsumption of resourses of resources) you may as well develop in Windows10 altogether.

    Or, if corporate forces you to use Windows (I am Looking at you Huawei), instead of firing up a VM with linux, or using the half baked cygwin, you can develop on Win10 Bash...

    Or, if you develop a

  • I don't develop for Linux but I do build keyboards & program them using TMK or QMK firmware. Getting a development environment for this stuff installed in Windows in the past has been a bear. I just yesterday installed the Linux subsystem and it really does work. This is great 'cause I'm about to begin another keyboard project & I don't need to dual boot just to build the firmware.

  • "Whatever it is that you normally do on Linux to build an application: whether it's in Go, in Erlang, in C, whatever you use, please, give it a try on Bash WSL, and importantly file bugs on us. It really makes our life a lot easier and helps us build a product...

    Fuck you, PAY ME.

  • No thanks.

  • Might be controversial but its not bad at all (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kangsterizer ( 1698322 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @03:27PM (#53379701)

    I always think about Spender from GrSecurity when I read this. He uses windows to develop for Linux because it makes him more productive.

    As a long time every day user and programmer (Linux, FreeBSD since year 1, MacOS for 28 years, Windows for 20 years), of all major platforms I'm using Linux desktop primarily (and most of my colleagues use OSX) but.. I cannot disagree with Spender. I'd be more productive on Windows for my Linux code (than on either OSX or Linux). I just choose the Linux desktop for other reasons ("I like it" "ideology" "its slowly getting there").

    Still, today, Win10 is still the faster, more productive environment for Linux code.. oh and its always extremely good for Windows code too - as long as you don't use old APIs, which really, you shouldn't anymore.

    Basically, the Windows platform is very much underrated. No nonsense, super compatible, very fast. They just have a terrible, terrible reputation.

  • And the value proposition is what, exactly? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by dskoll ( 99328 ) on Monday November 28, 2016 @04:23PM (#53380123) Homepage

    So let me get this straight. I should switch from a free development environment, that I can install on as many machines as I want, that doesn't feed me ads, that doesn't phone home with my information, that doesn't auto-update unless I configure it to and that ships with source code, to a system that costs money, costs more money to install on multiple machines, feeds me ads, phone home with my information, auto-updates by default and is closed-source?

    What's the value proposition here, again?

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