Linux Mint Hack Is an Indicator of a Larger Problem (techrepublic.com) 254
An anonymous reader writes: On February 20th, a hacker working under the handle 'Peace' took control of the website of Linux Mint, a popular Linux distribution derived from Ubuntu (and Debian) targeted toward non-technical users and power users unhappy with modern desktop environments. While these attacks are regrettable, and part of an infrastructure problem rather than a problem with the distribution itself, it increasingly appears that the Linux Mint team is spread too thin when it comes to security. The distribution itself blacklists updates that work perfectly in Ubuntu and Debian, and the graphical utilities don't update the kernel. Because the value added by Linux Mint is in Cinnamon, why do the developers need to distribute a broken version of Ubuntu when the Cinnamon DE could be distributed as an Ubuntu spin?
Wake me (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Offtopic)
As long as the Franklin Mint is okay, then I'm fine. I'm in too deep with them. I've got all my entire retirement invested in their Princess Diana commemorative plates. THEY CAN'T BE ALLOWED TO FAIL!
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Look into Slackware
Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr (Score:5, Insightful)
Xfce has stagnated.
Great! I'd rather have something that goes nowhere at all than something that goes downhill. Software that improves itself while avoiding the eventual downhill part is extremely hard to come by, which is backed up by all the examples you posted. Putting a bunch of developers on a project yet managing to make it worse is just a waste of human resources.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know what to do at this point. Switching to FreeBSD is looking like the most likely option. It still suffers from some of the same problems as Linux distros do, due to it using a lot of open source software, too. But at least it will minimize the problems by FreeBSD itself being of an extraordinarily high quality, and it using better alternatives (like Clang and LLVM instead of GCC) where possible.
I can install and use Clang and LLVM under Linux as well. Interesting troll though.
Re: Quality problems not specific to a single dist (Score:5, Insightful)
You want a nice little machine to fellate you?
Apparently I've been buying the wrong computers. Tell me more about these nice little machines.
Re: (Score:2)
You want a nice little machine to fellate you?
Apparently I've been buying the wrong computers. Tell me more about these nice little machines.
Well, it's generally illegal (and socially frowned upon) to outright purchase them. However, you can request one. Random expenditures (patterned fabric, very small bits of precision forged metal, and colorful plants) and dialog are usually requirements, and their firmware is generally considered to be difficult to understand and changes frequently with minimal documentation. If you manage to acquire one in exclusivity, upgrading is incredibly expensive.
Re:Quality problems not specific to a single distr (Score:5, Insightful)
Write your own and open source it
Exactly what is wrong with opensource right now. So much crap. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's not crap. Please, please. Don't just start your own code unless you know what you're doing.
Value Added (Score:5, Insightful)
and the graphical utilities don't update the kernel. Because the value added by Linux Mint is in Cinnamon, why do the developers need to distribute a broken version of Ubuntu when the Cinnamon DE could be distributed as an Ubuntu spin?
My guess would be that most - or allot - of Mint users are looking for more than just Ubuntu with Cinnamon. If that is all Mint users where looking for, there would not be a KDE version, a XFCE version, or a Mate version. If that is all they wanted, they would download Ubuntu and add the ppas for their desktop of choice. People find value with those "graphical utilities".
The author is confusing what he wants from Mint for what others want.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
No different than Mandrake shadowing Red Hat releases in the 90s and early 00s... RedHat 6.2 ships, a month later Mandrake 7.2 ships. Didn't even bother replacing "redhat" in the installer screens, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
Why don't you use the Mint Debian edition then? It shouldn't have these issues, right? Maybe it has different issues.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
So what distribution would you recommend for someone looking for something like Mint? Less Ubuntu than Ubuntu, but solid and well supported.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
The Linux Mint team should just cut their losses and focus all their resources on their secondary project, Linux Mint Debian Edition. Making this the primary project and the new default "Linux Mint" would help because they'd be less dependent on upstream changes from Ubuntu, while providing usability improvements to Debian that are not considered important enough to implement in Debian proper. Heck, it's exactly the method of how Ubuntu came about, but Linux Mint's mission goal is just to make the best desk
Re: (Score:2)
Mint Debian.
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks, I'll take a look.
Re: (Score:2)
That would provide end users with exactly what we want - a well maintained, well supported, operating system whose desktop is actually modern and usable rather than trendy and terrible.
This is ironic, since the whole reason I tried Mint in the first place several years ago was because I was tired of Ubuntu being "trendy and terrible," while Mint appeared to supply a "well-maintained, well-supported, operating system whose desktop is actually modern and usable."
I'm not defending Mint. But I find this very funny, given how broken Ubuntu typically was a few years back and how they seemed to jump on any unstable crappy bandwagon to do the new trendy thing. ("Yeah, look at my wobbly window
Re: (Score:2)
The "Value Add" is more than Cinnamon (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually, Linux Mint's value add was originally (and still is) providing an Ubuntu distribution that includes non-free software and codecs pre-installed and configured right out of the box (e.g. DVD playback, MP3 playback, 3D graphics drivers like then visual binary blob, Flash, JAVA, etc.). Yes, these features can be separately stalled by users in Ubuntu. But for first time or novice users, this could be difficult and Linux Mint took the approach of making sure these features were installed, configured, and working out of the box.
Cinnamon is a separate project to provide an alternative to Gnome3. Linux Mint sponsored it and is the primary user of it. But it's not the only "value add".
That said, Linux Mint did make some weird design decisions. I always thought it would be easier to just create and publish a custom Ubuntu spin that included these features rather than create a whole distribution from scratch.
Re: (Score:2)
I installed Lubuntu 10.10 on a Pentium 3 with 256MB and it was fine, even surprisingly good at showing non-fullscreen web video. It was an interesting franken computer, with the 16:9 LCD monitor and a Firewire card.
LXDE runs on Rapsberry Pi 1, which is a worse computer than that (but with HDMI and hardware H264 decoder)
It makes sense actually, why would software need to spend a billion cycles to open a start menu or a run box etc.
Re: (Score:2)
LMDE 2 is on current debian stable already.
I tried it and well, nothing special.
I still have the same opinion : debian is about the same as Ubuntu, except when you find out it's missing a piece of software or a driver or whatever. By all means get debian stable if you want debian stable. Just that it being more "solid" or whatever on a desktop is a myth.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks for pointing that out, hadn't heard of the project. And after spending some time on the site, it looks like you may be right. This may be the distro that fixes the damage from the UI wars. Going to try it in a VM and throw a few bucks in the tip jar just because they seem to have their heads screwed on straight.
Well for one thing... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
I also thought LMDE was right for my needs about 2 years ago, but I was very disappointed when I realized they didn't do regular security updates other than Firefox and Thunderbird. Specifically, IIRC, OpenSSL's "heartbleed" hole took weeks to be (partly) patched, and I didn't see any updates of LibreOffice, ffmpeg, libnss, apt and others when vulnerabilities were announced in them.
I switched back to regular Mint, which uses Ubuntu
Re: (Score:2)
There will be an upgrade path from LMDE 2 to LMDE3, since they're using stable instead of frozen testing versions like before.
nonsensical summary - anti-Mint FUD (Score:5, Insightful)
The site in question used WordPress, which gets hacked early and often. Being hacked had nothing to do with how many Mint developers there are; it's more a commentary on flaws most php based platforms have.
Linux Mint chooses to blacklist certain applications in line with the project goals; these of course can be overridden at user's choice.
What a pile of FUD, I smell jealousy of Linux Mint's success as unlike Ubuntu the team does listen to end user needs and wants; while Ubuntu instead crams badly designed UI (Unity) down throats that neither meets needs nor was requested by anyone
Re: (Score:3)
Ubuntu ...crams badly designed UI (Unity) down throats that neither meets needs nor was requested by anyone.
You obviously haven't visited the Ubuntu forums since Unity was introduced. According to the forums, it seems that all the diehard Ubuntu fans liked Unity so much after it was forced down their throats that their collective love for it reached backwards through time and requested it from the future.
Re: (Score:2)
yes and systemd near the end of this year will have evolved to the point where it reached back in time and demanded its creation. If we see that happen again and again we know it's just systemd doing it up/down oscillation screwup thing it sometimes does
Re: (Score:2)
huh? it what way did Linux Mint be a bubble that in any way shape or form "burst"? only thing that happened was wordpress blog cracked and link changed.
Linux mint offers more than just cinnamon or mate, you seem to be uniformed on the differences.
You also seem to be grossly exaggerating the event as somehow a bad reflection of Linux Mint quality. Ubuntu and Debian both have done far, far worse things. Like Debian's epic SSL blunder a few years back.
Because the value added by Linux Mint is not only (Score:2)
I use it with Mate since day one.
I'm not a developer but Software architect and Mint Mate just do the job without any cumbersome thing to make it works with a normal stable DE unlike ubuntu.
And The distribution itself [DOESN'T] blacklists updates that work perfectly in Ubuntu and Debian, and the graphical utilities [DO] update the kernel when correctly configured when YRTF !
Re: (Score:2)
They were trying to portray as bad certain packages are by default not allowed, but its because of design decisions. of course that can be overridden...but I don't even get what basis their claim of no kernel updates comes from, of course it does them but doesn't jump kernel versions
Linux Mint just works. (Score:5, Informative)
That's the value for me, it works out of the box for all the hardware I've used it on so far. Unlike Ubuntu which has issues of it's own lately for me. Before the hack hit I had Mint installed on an MSI laptop with and Nvidia card and the thing fired up out of the box with no issues. Only thing I had to do was turn off that secure boot garbage in the bios which was easy.
Maybe Mint isn't the ideal distribution for people and maybe it could be done better. Still it's doing things right enough for me to use it and run Steam on it with no issues for all the games that provide native Linux ports. Could Ubuntu do it? Maybe but I hate Unity and Gnome 3. I also don't want one of the side distributions because unlike Mint I feel like they're treated as second class from the main one.
Submitter forgot 'no shopping lens' (Score:2)
While I understand that the overlords of commerce like to pretend that nothing could ever be wrong with anything even remotely advertising-related, the reality is that Ubuntu foundation did itself some irreparable damage with that incident.
Kernel updates actually are in the GUI (Score:3)
It's in "Update Manager", "View", "Linux Kernels".
Also allows to delete kernels although that is slow, and must be done one by one.
It has to be said, although updates to the kernel are never automatic. Thus pproximately no one does them I'd say.
In fact, with straight Ubuntu I had to do the apt-get get dist-upgrade described in the story to update the kernel (which I did very rarely) and I did not bother with graphical tools. Now there's a likable graphical tool for updates, so instead of the graphical stuff disabled or not present I get notified for every software non-kernel update that comes up.
I don't know about security updates held up, and I don't use Cinnamon (can't buy an Intel graphics card to run a desktop). This I believe is where's most of the hackery due to e.g. GTK3 upstream constantly trying to ruin the game for devs that are not building UIs that look like a cross of Mac OS and Windows 8.
The article seems fairly preposterous. For me the Mate and Xfce editions are where it's at and yes the default themes etc. are a good reason, along with cross-DE tools. Not gonna using and pushing some hastily thrown together desktop with e.g. a black task bar on top rather than a gray task bar on bottom, ugly icons and wallpapers and so on.
Re: (Score:2)
I installed Linux Mint around a year back but I did not like getting a lot of conflicts whenever I perform a dist-upgrade. The conflicts had to do with branding between Mint and Ubuntu. Does it still happen with the current version?
Re: (Score:2)
been using Linux Mint since july 2011 but never saw that, which package/apps were involved with that problem? only problems I've had in past were getting nvidia driver to be stable, sometimes the one Mint wanted to install was the best, other times I'd have to manually install order or newer version right from nvidia site. in last 18 months the distro one (with updates) has been stable
Wow (Score:2)
Mark Shuttleworth, is that you?
Re: (Score:3)
I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments (Score:5, Informative)
I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I agree with your interpretation. I even (unlike you, probably) kind of agree with the original author's point. I would be pretty happy if the Ubuntu team offered Cinnamon as an alternative of Unity. But of course they never will, because they specifically developed Unity to replace Gnome in the first place, thus creating all this demand for Cinnamon and Linux Mint.
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments (Score:5, Funny)
I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I agree with your interpretation. I even (unlike you, probably) kind of agree with the original author's point. I would be pretty happy if the Ubuntu team offered Cinnamon as an alternative of Unity. But of course they never will, because they specifically developed Unity to replace Gnome in the first place, thus creating all this demand for Cinnamon and Linux Mint.
and now we're telling the folks at Mint to go fork themselves?
{ducks}
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't see why it couldn't be moved to Ubuntu.
The only reason reason why not would be if it takes away developer or test time and resources from their other, higher priority offerings. It would be an alternative, and Ubuntu does already offer alternatives. Unity or not, as long as the only work they had to do was minimal, offering the choice seems to not harm Ubuntu at all.
Re: (Score:2)
I think it means three things: "Why do people use Mint when Ubuntu is better in every way? Some people think the only answer is 'Cinnamon' . Ubuntu should port that over so they are the awesome and Mint can die"
I agree with your interpretation. I even (unlike you, probably) kind of agree with the original author's point. I would be pretty happy if the Ubuntu team offered Cinnamon as an alternative of Unity. But of course they never will, because they specifically developed Unity to replace Gnome in the first place, thus creating all this demand for Cinnamon and Linux Mint.
There are a variety [kubuntu.org] of [xubuntu.org] different [lubuntu.me] Ubuntu [ubuntugnome.org] 'flavors' [ubuntu-mate.org], which is basically Ubuntu+Alternate DE. So why couldn't Linux Mint be like that rather than a much larger project that's harder to maintain?
Re: (Score:2)
Cinnamon (2.6.13) is available in Ubuntu universe repositories. For me, apt-get wants to install 88 additional packages when installing that meta package.
http://packages.ubuntu.com/wil... [ubuntu.com]
I haven't tried to use it so I have no idea if works well.
Re: (Score:2)
This message brought to you by Mark Shuttleworth
Re: (Score:3)
It's what passes for trash talk from anonymous story contributors, a loaded question like 'when will the developers stop beating their wives?' Mint is not just Cinnamon, of course, and not all versions are even based on Ubuntu, 'broken' or otherwise. Mint fans might want to point out that Ubuntu-Mate, by far the best version of Ubuntu (see what I did there?), owes a great deal to Mint's support of the MATE desktop project...
Re: (Score:2)
I'm running mate on debian.
So the point is why a desktop environment needs its own distro, rather than polishing debian/ubuntu upstream.
Re: (Score:2)
So the point is why a desktop environment needs its own distro, rather than polishing debian/ubuntu upstream.
Mint isn't a single desktop distro, quite the reverse - the Ubuntu-based edition is available in MATE, Cinnamon, Xfce and KDE versions, and the Debian-based version in Cinnamon or MATE. It exists for much the same reason as any other distribution - the developers wanted to do something different to what was already out there, and their changes weren't limited to the DE (before Gnome 3 and Unity happened, Mint ran Gnome 2 like Ubuntu, but still had its own character).
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3)
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments (Score:4, Informative)
Re:WhipslashPleaseGetRidOfSubjectsInComments (Score:4, Informative)
Encrypted DVDs don't play out of the box on Ubuntu, you have to manually install libdvd-pkg. Which admittedly isn't hard, but it is an extra step. And there may well be other codecs they don't support I'm not aware of.
Re: (Score:2)
Well they also have a debian edition and there was some discussion a while ago, no idea if it is still happening, of shifting their base from Ubuntu to debian.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
But isn't Ubuntu just a derivative of Debian? They probably use 80%+ pure Debian in their releases so you could argue why don't they just partner with Debian instead of rolling their own.
I also could be biased though as Mint is my distro of choice. I prefer its interface and how it works to every other distro I have used. As for the comments in the article it feels to me more that he has an axe to grind because he doesn't agree with how mint is structured. He talks about why not partner with cannonical
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
What the author is saying is given Mint is just Cinnamon + Ubuntu, why distribute this somewhat hacked together kludge, rather than collaborating with Canonical?
I don't get how that's a hacked together kludge. Ubuntu + repo + default packages seems like it's using the package system exactly the way it's supposed to be. I mean, every person I know running linux adds extra repos, and switches out the default packages at some point. This doesn't sound like a kludge so much as a slightly differently configured base install. Whether that's a significant enough difference to merit a new distro name might be a reasonable question, but it doesn't sound very kludgey.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Better than what came to my mind first.... C....untu....
Re: (Score:2)
I like the subjects in comments, douche nozzle.
Re:That's it... (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm moving to Arch
Good for you. Arch is not for newbie users as it lacks a tool to perform automated installs, but once it is up and running i'd venture to say is the most reliable, easiest to use distro out there.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Top 5 reasons why Arch Linux sucks:
1) Lead arch developer got his computer hacked 3 times. see: https://web.archive.org/web/20120805043450/https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=12192&p=1
2) Unstable. Go check out arch's forum instead of listening to the fanboy to see the enormous amounts of issues.
3) Unprofessional. Arch isn't used in any professional environment for a good reason. Made by amateurs.
4) Community. Pretentious, trendy, ricer, hippie morons.
5) Forum. Full of noob questions (can't help i
Re:"for non-technical users" (Score:5, Informative)
You mean like the Anonymous Coward who says "graphical utilities don't update the kernel"
This person should simply click the Mint update manager on their bar which brings up the graphical Update Manager Window. Then you click "View", and from that drop-down menu select "Linux Kernels". From there you can choose from all of the available kernels for Linux Mint.
I don't know about you, but that is certainly looks fairly graphical to me!
Re: (Score:3)
That's why they do it. The official line is "Don't replace the kernel unless you have a reason to."
Kernels update automatically as part of the graphical process. The kernel replacement procedure above is to change kernel versions. I've currently go 3.16.0-38 installed. As long as I don't do anything, any updates to 3.16.0-38 will automatically be installed.
If I want a newer version of the kernel I can bring up the kernel upgrade dialog mentioned above and scroll down through all the available kernels. I
Re:"for non-technical users" (Score:5, Interesting)
Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
I wish this was true so I wouldn't have to deal with so many support requests from Mac users.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
"Non-technical users should use $WHAT_I_THINK_IS_BEST_FOR_THEM_BECAUSE_I_UNDERSTAND_ALL_USE_CASES as it simply works". Gotcha.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
"Non-technical users should use $WHAT_I_THINK_IS_BEST_FOR_THEM_BECAUSE_I_UNDERSTAND_ALL_USE_CASES as it simply works". Gotcha.
Some of the better IT shops are giving users the choice between Mac and PC. From what I've seen in the field, non-technical users and engineers prefer the Mac. Macs and PCs are pretty much interchangeable these days.
Re:"for non-technical users" (Score:5, Interesting)
Macs and PCs are pretty much interchangeable these days.
Not really. Macs require a much more current IT staff. Unfortunately many IT departments have been force fed the Microsoft dribble for so long that they don't know what real IT looks like. Adding Macs to corporate infrastructure should be done carefully.
It's not about the user or the OS. It's about the infrastructure behind it.
Re:"for non-technical users" (Score:5, Funny)
Macs require a much more current IT staff.
A tech manager who been with the company for 15+ years recently threw a fit. He was trying to replace the hard drive in a new Dell laptop. There was no slot for the 2.5" hard drive he wanted to install. He took the whole laptop apart and couldn't find the hard drive. Some of the techs pointed out a card on the logic board that was the new hard drive standard. He screamed that the card was the wireless card, and got madder when they pointed to the wireless card with the antenna connections. The laptop remains on the back shelf because he can't fix it with a standard 2.5" hard drive.
If the IT department is not current, it's a management problem and not a technology problem.
Re: (Score:2)
That's a problem well beyond being current. His problem is his unwillingness to get current when it wouldn't take a whole hour on the net to learn what he needs to know. It seems he may even have somehow taken it personally that some new tech came along and made him not current.
Re: (Score:3)
His problem is his unwillingness to get current when it wouldn't take a whole hour on the net to learn what he needs to know.
His problem is typical of full-time employees with many years at a company. They stop learning, become comfortable and panic at the slightest hint of change. I had two friends with software engineering degrees who fell into this trap, getting great jobs out of college and getting laid off six years later in the dot com bust, unable to find a job with obsolete skills, and still working as drug store clerks years later.
Re: (Score:3)
I'm using Windows 10, but I'll use whatever is in front of me if it does the job. I gave my father my Mac mini when it was no longer fast enough for me, and he's required virtually no tech support in the years since, other than doing a fresh install of Mavericks for him.
What I'd like is to have OSX on my parts-built PC without doing a Hackintosh. Apple should know by now that opening up the OS to other hardware would mean making even more off the App Store.
My only caveat for friends who look at buying Mac i
Re:"for non-technical users" (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple should know by now that opening up the OS to other hardware would mean making even more off the App Store.
Apple tried licensing to third-party hardware makers and saw their hardware sales decline as the cheaper Macs became popular. That was the first thing Steve Jobs killed off when he came back to Apple.
Re: (Score:2)
That was two decades before the App Store came into being. The slice they take on that would make up for the hardware sales now easily.
Windows 10 will pay for itself out of its own App Store and MS knows it.
Re: (Score:2)
Windows 10 will pay for itself out of its own App Store and MS knows it.
I ignore the App Stores on both Mac and Windows. Neither company are making extra money from me by having an app store.
Re: (Score:2)
You also read Slashdot, and probably get a lot of apps from GitHub, like I do.
But there are tons of people who like the convenience of app stores.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup, and even if you go through and set up the settings that *can* be turned off, the next patch turns them right back on again by default.
It has also changed my default apps like Notepad++ back to the MS equivalents after a patch too.
I do like some of the features of it, like on my tablet I can switch between a tablet UI and a full windows desktop for mouse and keyboard usage cleanly (much better than the nasty windows 8), but damn if the intrusiveness isn't a major downside.
Re: (Score:2)
[...] probably get a lot of apps from GitHub [...]
Nope.
Re:"for non-technical users" (Score:5, Informative)
Oh for mod points. Amen.
"Non-technical users"? Fuck off. It's an OS that is designed to be used, not endlessly fiddled with. But for some self-appointed gatekeepers, that's somehow become an unbearable eternal-September thing for linux.
Re: (Score:2)
Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
Well, the problem is that the cost to buy (including maintenance) a Mac is a lot more expensive than to buy a PC... $500 may be little to you, but it could be a much higher value to many others...
Re: (Score:2)
Well, the problem is that the cost to buy (including maintenance) a Mac is a lot more expensive than to buy a PC.
My 2006 MacBook lasted for eight years. The only reason I retired it so soon is because it had a 32-bit processor and many of the programs I've used stopped upgrading the 32-bit version. The only repair job I had was a replacement fan and a new battery in 2014. Most Macs maintain high resale values because they're better made than many PCs.
Re: (Score:2)
My Minis didn't last anywhere near that long. Comparable PCs have outlasted them by a wide margin. Normal PCs just keep on chugging along until you don't know what to do with them any more.
Plus you can upgrade them (PCs) and extend their useful lifespan even further, long after a Mac would be an obsolescence driven doorstop.
Re: (Score:2)
Do you actually believe that PCs are made like crap compared to Macs when they both use the same parts?
The Dell, HP and Lenovo laptops that are issued to non-technical workers in a corporate environment are typically crap. A comparable Mac laptop is better engineered and last longer. My company recently gave me a $3,000 Dell laptop as a desktop replacement, which is much better engineered than any Mac Pro laptop that I ever used.
He's still using it as his primary computer.
My nine-years-old gaming system is still using the original AMD 690 motherboard and DDR2 memory, second processor (dual core to quad core), and fourth OS (Windows Vista to Windows 1
Re: (Score:2)
You can get 4GB DDR2 sticks of memory from ebay for real cheap (a pair of them). They only run on AMD deskops.
Re: (Score:2)
You can get 4GB DDR2 sticks of memory from ebay for real cheap (a pair of them). They only run on AMD deskops.
Do I get more DDR2 memory for a nine-year-old AMD 690 motherboard that limits my quad-core processor to 800MHz and maxes out at 16GB RAM. Or do I buy a brand new AMD 970 motherboard that runs my quad-core processor at 1600Mhz, maxes out to 64GB, and upgrade to an eight-core processor at later date. Decisions, decisions, decisions.
Re: (Score:2)
Non-technical users should use a Mac, as it simply works.
Since I use a mac, I really really wish that were true... but it's not.
Well, the problem is that the cost to buy (including maintenance) a Mac is a lot more expensive than to buy a PC... $500 may be little to you, but it could be a much higher value to many others...
Yes... but no. The purchase cost of a computer really is the least important cost. If it is frustrating to use and wastes your time, saving a few hundred dollars on purchase was a poor bargain.
Depends on what you want to do, of course. Either option has advantages for some things. Windows machines do have some bargain basement units... but you may have to make up that cost in problems. Or you may not. Depends on what you need it for
Re: (Score:3)
Macs are really only suitable for top level security experts. Certainly not non-technical users.
You obviously haven't spend much time at an Apple Store. I seriously doubt that Grandma is a top level security expert.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A friend uses Samba on his Linux Mint machine to read video on the set-top box, which presumably runs linux.
The nice part is he set it up by himself! likely by right-clicking the directory. Formerly known as the guy whom every body wouldn't dare touch his Windows XP PC full of god knows what spyware and inscrutable cruft.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Watch your free space though, adding a kernel takes hundreds of megabytes.