Dell Continues Shipping Fresh Linux Laptops 123
jones_supa writes: In its latest move, Dell will be bringing Ubuntu 14.04 LTS to its top-of-the-line Precision M3800 workstation laptop and the latest model of the Dell XPS 13. Both systems will be running Ubuntu 14.04.1. According to Barton George, Dell's Director of Developer Programs, programmers had been asking for a better, officially-supported Ubuntu developer laptop. This came about from a combination of the efforts of Dell software engineer Jared Dominguez and enthusiastic feedback. Specs of M3800: 15.6" LCD @ 3840x2160, Intel i7 quad core CPU, NVIDIA Quadro GPU, up to 16 GB RAM. The bad news is, as Dominguez explained on his blog, this version of the M3800 doesn't support its built-in Thunderbolt 2 port out of the box. However, thanks to the hardware-enablement stack in Ubuntu, starting with upcoming Ubuntu 14.04.2, you will be able to upgrade your kernel to add some Thunderbolt support.
XPS 13 works great (Score:5, Informative)
Re: XPS 13 works great (Score:1)
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At least it works for my Lenovo's with nVidia.
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Awesome
Cinnamon
Fluxbox
FVWM
GNOM
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Why would I want to run PCBSD? With Ubuntu or Fedora, I can easily download lots of software with the package manager. There's lots of people running Linux on the desktop (1% of the total market qualifies as "lots"), so there will be lots of community support. I've had Linux immediately recognize printers I had to do fiddling to get Windows to acknowledge. What do the BSDs have to compare with that? (This is a legitimate question.) What would the advantages be?
Currently iff I want BSD on the deskto
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They do come with some,
Skype and Dropbox.
not knowing what Thunderbolt is (Score:1)
...wouldn't bother me that a kernel doesn't support it.
So that's not a dealbreaker for me.
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USB vs Thunderbolt = VHS vs Betamax. VHS more widespread due to it being cheaper yet betamax won in video production by being superior. Same with Thunderbolt.
Thunderbolt is Sony/Apple competitior to the original USB. It is higher performing with I/O bound to the host vs in the peripherals of the original USB design. It was more expensive so USB won but due to its superior bandwidth and processing it is used for ilink/thunderbolt video cameras, vga dongles, and ethernet.
Thunderbolt comes with MS Surface and
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Could have sworn that the betacam format used in video production has very little in common with the betamax format sold to the public.
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You just compared USB and Firewire, not thunderbolt.
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USB vs Thunderbolt = VHS vs Betamax.
You can run multiple USB connections over a single Thunderbolt, so it makes USB work better, rather than replacing it. You can also use Thunderbolt to daisychain multiple monitors, disk drives, network connections, etc. It has a bandwidth of 20Gbps. It is the standard connector on Apple computers, and is becoming more widely adopted by other vendors.
Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is (Score:5, Informative)
Thunderbolt is Sony/Apple competitior to the original USB. It is higher performing with I/O bound to the host vs in the peripherals of the original USB design. It was more expensive so USB won but due to its superior bandwidth and processing it is used for ilink/thunderbolt video cameras, vga dongles, and ethernet.
You sound like you're describing Firewire [wikipedia.org] (developed by Apple, Sony, and a number of others), not Thunberbolt [wikipedia.org] (developed primarily by Intel).
Thunderbolt comes with MS Surface and any Apple product to connect vga, ethernet, dvd, HDMI, video cameras, and other dongles. Mac users use them too. USB 2?? Well it can't handle these well or at all.
This paragraph confuses me, what are you talking about when you say USB can handle these well or at all? Dongles are almost always used on the USB port.
An easier explanation is that Thunderbolt is a functional, external PCIe bandwidth connection. I see it far more often in Pro Audio and Pro Video than any other purpose as its high bandwidth allows better access. It's still a young tech (2011) as opposed to USB (1996) and Firewire (1994), so there's plenty of things that still can come from it.
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Though it requires active cables, which cost quite a bit more. So it might have a place for bleeding edge stuff, but not so much for economy.
Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is (Score:5, Informative)
Thunderbolt combines PCI Express (PCIe) and DisplayPort (DP) into one serial signal alongside a DC connection for electric power, transmitted over one cable. Up to six peripherals may be supported by one connector through various topologies. [wikipedia.org]
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Thunderbolt comes with MS Surface
No.... it doesn't. Not as far as I can tell. None of the spec sheets I can find list Thunderbolt. Your coworker's Ethernet adapter is almost certainly USB.
Security risk (Score:1)
Thunderbolt is basically an incompatible security risk
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yeah, reading this thread has left me so utterly confused I've actually (gasp!) taken to actually reading up on it. Seems Thunderbolt is a serial connection comprising PCIe (essentially extending the PCIe bus with external channels) and DisplayPort, and DC power, through a 20-pin Mini Displayport connector. Each host port can drive up to four discrete devices, six in a daisychain, including direct serial connection with other Thunderbolt hosts. The difference between Thunderbolt and USB/Firewire is that Thu
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Thunderbolt is dead in the water. Nobody knows what problem it solves.
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Big fat hariy deal...
apt-get install thunderbolt-driver
If it's really bad, then it's...
apt-get install thunderbolt-kernel
Re:Hardware enablement? (Score:4, Insightful)
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You should read the release notes for any RHEL minor release. They do all kind of crazy stuff in their enterprise kernel. The entire KVM virtual machine layer for example, that came in with RHEL 5.2, a minor update that you got automatically. They also break stuff occasionally, but I've not had that happen very often.
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You've described the exact same scenario for Windows.
The only difference is Windows is more popular and if hardware manufacturers stopped supporting their products on new version of Windows, they'd go bankrupt.due to lack of sales.
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3 sales from you alone! Wow, that's just paid for 6 hours of one of their employees time.
Linux actually a radio button option for a change (Score:5, Interesting)
It's nice to see that Dell have put Linux as an OS option right next to WIndows (and $101 cheaper than Windows too). A bit strange for them to ship a Linux release that initially has no Thunderbolt support, though I suspect not many people use Thunderbolt-only hardware outside of the Apple ecosystem.
Defaults to an HDD in the config options which is also weird, especially since it appears to have 2 drive bays, so surely you'd want an SSD in there in one of the bays?
The higher res screen is only a $70 bump, so it would appear to be a no-brainer to pick that option. If the final price wasn't so eye-wateringly high (and me being in the UK probably means it'll either not appear on the UK dell site or be a dollar to pound conversion), it would be an attractive high-end Linux laptop.
VAT isn't in US sticker prices (Score:3)
and me being in the UK probably means it'll either not appear on the UK dell site or be a dollar to pound conversion
Currently 1 GBP is worth about 1.50 USD. Sales tax is much higher in the UK and other EU countries than in the US, and included in the sticker price in the UK and other EU countries unlike in the US. This accounts for about 0.30 USD of the difference. The other 0.20 USD, if any, is probably shipping from North America and the increased warranty requirements of the EU.
Re: Will it void the warranty (Score:1)
Dell restricts aftermarket wifi card options because they must do so to stay compliant with FCC requirements. Wireless radios are certified as a system - card plus antenna (built into the laptop). Refer to question 5 https://apps.fcc.gov/eas/comments/GetPublishedDocument.html?id=208&tn=830118
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Have fun trying to boot your Slackware install DVD from the non-existent DVD reader.
It's pretty easy to create bootable USB flash drives with the Linux distro of your choice these days.
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dd if=myinstaller.iso of=/dev/sdX
works for me...
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Slackware works with USB. Comes with a windows installer and everything. You don't load the whole thing. You have to mount the volume where the ISO is for the install itself. It's very straightforward and one of the fastest installs I've seen.
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i find usb (powered) bluray burners ($80+ on amazon) work on any usb 2.0 or better connection. if you're on a budget a bd-rom/dvd-rw or just a dvd-rw will work. i recommend BD simply because i prefer it to dvd.
Re: Will it void the warranty (Score:2)
Who the hell uses discs anymore?
My two year old laptop doesn't have one, and I haven't missed it one bit.
I have a couple of USB drives with SystemRescueCD on them. Plug it in, boot it up, and install whatever you need through there.
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If you're buying a laptop with Linux on it, I don't think you're buying video games on discs.
Even more so if you plan to install Slackware on it.
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my four year old netbook doesn't have an optical drive.
I usually reimage using the SD card slot or a thumb stick in one of the usb ports.
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Given that Dell doesn't support even Ubuntu, what difference does it make?
In fact, when I got my Inspiron 17, w/ Windows 8, due to the problems I had w/ it, I just replaced it w/ PC-BSD. Didn't bother Dell at all, as I knew it wouldn't be supported. As long as I have no hardware problems - which I don't, so far, I'm fine. It's a pity I couldn't get iwn working for PC-BSD - the Centrino internal WiFi wasn't supported.
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Fedora LTS version is RHEL which is expensive, though they could install CentOS
But manly, it is a laptop and not a server they are selling. RedHat has never been interested in selling a desktop solution (just to contradict me, I believe that recently they have a workstation version comming up). Ubuntu is first and foremost concentrating on the Desktop experience. Steam supports Ubuntu, not Fedora. Ubuntu is what is closest to Windows and Mac as for support. It had wifi connection via GUI two years be
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RedHat has never been interested in selling a desktop solution
Sure they have. Go back to the Red Hat Linux days, the desktop was the main reason why they got into the business to begin with. It failed miserably though and that's when they switched to the enterprise market.
(just to contradict me, I believe that recently they have a workstation version comming up).
There have been desktop version of RHEL going back to the first version. They actually have two of them, Desktop and Workstation where Workstation is intended for software development while Desktop is meant for regular desktops.
Ubuntu is first and foremost concentrating on the Desktop experience.
If there's something Ubuntu is missing it's focus. They are doing desktop
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Red Hat scurries away from consumer desktop market: [theregister.co.uk]
If Red Hat goes after some Desktop market, it is for specialized, corporate markets. Not for general consumers and surely not on laptop.
As for Canonical's resources, I guess they are split half and half between the server business and consumer business, the server business fuelling the consumer initiative. Currently they are focusing on the tablet / smartphone. Desktop is pretty largely pushed aside for the moment; this is obvious by the low quality (num
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RedHat has never been interested in selling a desktop solution (just to contradict me, I believe that recently they have a workstation version comming up)
My HP z840 is not three monts old, and fully supported by HP and/or RH.
It even had a physical RHEL 6 driver CD in the package!
As of a few years back the 3rd party SW vendors have slowly started to add support for Ubuntu, but as of now, only the linux fanatic could even consider switching. RHEL has been the obvious choice on the desktop for the last 10 years (if you didn't want Solaris). I even had RHEL 5 on my laptop for a while back - no problems whatsoever.
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Because Red Hat idiotically canned its desktop distribution many years ago, deciding to go with just the lucractive server business. Overlooking the fact that Linux admins tend to use Linux desktops, and when they get in a position to influence server specs, they will go with the OS they know, that is, Ubuntu. Ah well, it's better that way, Red Hat flavors of Linux have always been a bit crappy. I mean, not unusuably crappy, just a bit crappy. No apt-get for starters, Yum is ok as far as it goes, but apt is
Not in Canada (Score:2)
I suspect a new custom restriction to send Linux computer on the goodguy side of the border that only apply to Dell computer. In the mean time I spend nice time on a 2013 ASUS G75VX (i7 16gb BR-Burner) with Linux Mint and a functionnal Thunderbolt port
Why Thunderbolt? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would you want Thunderbolt again? It is a badly broken (IE doesn't actually do what is promised like channel bonding and a few other things that are sort of fixed in VERY recent silicon), costs far too much, forces the use of painfully expensive active cables, and only passes PCIe or video. This last bit is problematic because if you want any functionality on the other end of the cable, you need to add full controllers there too, think expensive and wasteful of power. In essence you are hot-plugging controllers with the cable, and while it works in theory....
TB is a badly broken spec from day one, it was meant as a control point for Intel to force the use of it's silicon in phones.mobile by replacing USB with something only it could provide. Needless to say the market saw through this and didn't adopt it in droves, sans the few that drank from the Intel money hose. The second the hose was shut off, so was the design wins.
The main reason that USB3 had such a slow start was because Intel was desperate to kill it to promote TB. Since Intel had control over the USB3 cert process, things went might slow for technical minutia that would easily pass by previous spec certs. Coincidence? Nope.
TB is a bad idea on technical, cost, lock-in, and many many other reasons, not working correctly ever being a key one there. Delivered silicon is a joke, there is and always will be one supplier, and progress is glacial. USB3.1 on the other hand beats it like a drum in every regard other than single channel throughput.
Why do I want to pay for this in my next laptop again?
-Charlie
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thunderbolt docking station working very nicely for me, don't know what you're whining about
Re:Why Thunderbolt? (Score:5, Interesting)
Because slim laptops may not have DVD, HDMI/VGA output, and some tablets like the MS Surface do not have ethernet either. Only Thunderbolt can do this. USB 3.1 may change this but it is not finished.
They are essential for plugging into projects for presentations, linking up video cameras (this laptop is a workstation grade one so it has this use), ethernet (I didn't see if this is netbook with an ethernet or not), and can do HDMI as well for hi resolution presentations which again it has a QUADRO so engineers and video editors are the target besides software developers.
My coworker with a MS surface 2 is our network guru for the site. He plugs in his thunderbolt ethernet controller to wireshark and use a Cisco program for port scanning instead of a bulky laptop with limited battery life. I want to buy one as a result and without thunderbolt it is a toy.
You complain about specs and costs. I mention it has benefits besides its quirks for consumers and non engineers. Yes it is pricier but it does more and this is a high end developer or engineer workstation grade laptop.
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> Because slim laptops may not have DVD, HDMI/VGA output,
Simple. Buy LESS LAME hardware.
The only thing Thunderbolt does that USB does not is passthrough of the display port connection that your lame laptop probably already has (or should have).
USB is already a bus and has already handled things like ethernet for quite some time now.
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and only passes PCIe or video.
Oh noes, it only passes video or a really fast bus that can be bridged to PCI with a cheap chip, how useless
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Thunderbolt requires controllers at both ends of the cable anyway, what's your issue again?
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All maximized all the time (Score:2)
Dell would be stupid to put Ubuntu on touchscreens. For those, they should use Android itself.
Window management in Android OS is designed to display a single application maximized. This works for 4 to 8 inch screens of phones and tablets, not so much for 13 inch or larger screens of laptops, where people expect to view applications side by side. Change this behavior and your customers will lose access to Google Play Store.
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Linux cannot into touchscreens, which is amusing considering Android handles it easily.
Nonsense, check out how KDE 5 handles it [techrepublic.com]
Finally! (Score:5, Funny)
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Price difference? (Score:2)
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Dell previously sold computers preinstalled with Linux at higher prices than identical hardware preinstalled with Windows. Their continuous parade of sales and promo codes only applied to Windows configurations, making Linux usually more expensive.
Dell is OK for a big company... (Score:1)
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System76 build quality is nothing compared to Dell, sorry. I just bought a Dell XPS to replace my System76 top of the line Gazelle. The S76 lasted 13 months then died. I've never had a Dell die on me, ever.
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The Win 10 subscription model (Score:3)
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There is all this talk but so far no subscription. MS even said free updates for the life of the product. This hints 10 might be the final OS of Windows like MacOSX is the final for Apple with just updated .1 releases added over time.
Rumor at arstechnica and neowin show MS will play with it perhaps for business editions who need AD access and services like Azure and OneDrive pro edition. Home users will get it free as the app store will generate the revenue to pay for it and will update itself to all operat
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> And it's still a nightmare to write and deploy closed source software on Linux...
Strange then that Oracle has been doing it for so well for so long. It kind of makes you wonder what sort of extra special trade secrets they must be employing to make this happen.
Better specs please (Score:2)
I just bought a XPS 15 with windows 2 weeks ago for Ubuntu because the XPS 13 was too underpowered for my needs. Why can't they offer Linux on the Quad-core/SSD/16GB systems?
kernel updates (Score:3)
Well, thank the gods, where would we be without hardware enablement, oh man.
Dell's rocky relationship with Linux/MSFT (Score:1)
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Well it is a workstation grade laptop with Quadro graphics. So it will be expensive. It is certified for highloads with extra QA for stability. Not the junk you get at Walmart if you want cheap. People who run Linux at work are programmers, administrators, 3d artists, or engineers so this laptop reflects their needs. Not hobbyists.
Thunderbolt does add cost as it is a 10 gig transfer tecnology directly to the PCI-Express bus. But I am a fan of thunderbolt until USB 3.1 and OEMs get their act together and per
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Todays cheap laptops come with HDMI out. And today's cheap laptops surpass anything on the market 8 years ago. You couldn't buy any quad core laptop then. The first mobile 500 gig hard drives were a lot thicker. You couldn't get USB3 on a laptop 5 years ago if you wanted to. Laptops shipped with 500 meg to 2 gig of ram, not 8 gig. All these are standard on $400 laptops today, and it's only going to get better.
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$1650!!! Are they crazy? $300 is more than enough ...
An i7 laptop with NVIDIA Quadro and the rest of the specs on that machine would indeed be awesome at $300. That seems unlikely any time soon, though.