Sailfish OS Gains Two-Way Android Compatibility 130
DeviceGuru writes "Jolla announced (PDF) that its Sailfish OS is now fully compatible with Android, letting the Linux-based mobile OS run Android apps, as well as operate on hardware configured for Android. This makes the MeeGo-based Sailfish OS the first alternative mobile Linux OS to achieve the feat. Jolla also announced that a second batch of pre-orders for its Sailfish-based Jolla phones will open later this week, after having sold out its first batch in August."
Shame (Score:2)
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Re:Shame (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, what stops you from doing like the Rest Of the World and buying your own phone?
Between the first Motorola I bought nearly 20 years ago and my present Nexus 4 I've never had one with a contract.
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this is why they focused on chinese market - soon to be bigger than US market.
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Think about it - if that continues for a year that's equivalent to 2/3 of the total US population buying a phone from the second, third or whatever ranked vendor in a year. That makes me think that the Chinese mobile phone market exceeds the entire US population by quite a bit.
Re:Shame (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, what stops you from doing like the Rest Of the World and buying your own phone?
I've noticed that US folks tend to think that you can only get a phone from a carrier . . . and just assume that the whole world also works like it does in the US.
Re:Shame (Score:5, Interesting)
In the US, almost NOBODY buys mobile phones off-contract. Yes, most of us know that is the worst way to buy a mobile phone, but the simple fact is most Americans don't want to pay up-front for the phone. The average US consumer will not do the math and figure out how much more they are paying on-contract, not to mention that US mobile call and data rates are among the highest in the world. I've been trying to convince my parents in the US, who are in their 70's and retired, to get phones off-contract, but they just don't get it. All they see is the bigger up-front cost. It's a cultural thing, Americans tend to want their stuff now and with no starting cost, even if it costs them more over time. I see this both in the consumer and business worlds.
Carrier lock-in via contracts and locked devices is still a big issue in the US, unlike many other parts of the world.
Disclaimer: I'm an ex-pat American living abroad for 12 years.
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That's absolute nonsense. It's a minority for sure, but a VERY significant one.
Sprint alone has 16 million pre-paid (Boost/Virgin) customers, which means they ALL bought their own cell phones. That's just #3 Sprint, and doesn't even include their dozens of MVNOs like Ting, Republic, etc. And of course that doesn't cover any of their contract customers who may have purchased their own phone.
T-Mobile has switched to entirely pre-paid, so ALL their 35
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Absolutely no bearing on the subject of this conversation...
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Unfortunately, as someone else in this thread stated, the Major Carriers charge for the phone subsidy whether you're on a contract plan or buy your phone outright, there is no line item for the subsidy on the bill that can be taken off; which means there is no savings and you actually wind up ultimately paying MORE for buying the phone outright. Hang on to a phone that you bought subsidized through the contract through the two years and don't upgrade with another 2 year contract when you're eligible? Whil
Re: Shame (Score:2)
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It really is amazing more people don't do this. When I went out and got my own plan, I went with subsidy. Got a phone for like $50 from AT&T. But, the bill I was paying was $110/month. For a single line, a ridiculously low amount of minutes(I never talk on the phone, but if I did I could run through it quickly), unlimited text messages, and a data cap of like 1G
2 years down the road I started looking to alternatives. This was a few months before T-Mobile started to be talked about being bought by AT
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The average US consumer will not do the math and figure out how much more they are paying on-contract
I'm not sure you've done the math yourself. A 300 dollar phone subsidized for 24 months costs the carrier about 12.50. An individual w/ data plan from ATT or Tmobile is 60 bucks a month. Straight talk is 45. 15-12.50 adds up to about 30 bucks a year (not much).
I personally avoid contracts just because I don't like the lock-in (I rotate between 4 different SIM cards).
Re: Shame (Score:4, Informative)
Let's see. Buy a $600 phone subsidized down to $100, and pay the carrier for the cheapest plan at about $80/month ($50/mo + federal fees & taxes) for two years. $2020 total cost.
Now we buy that same phone on Ebay for a steal at $400, and put it on the same carrier, same plan which costs the same because they charge for the subsidy anyway and since the subsidy is not a line item, there's no way for them to reduce the bill (still $80/month) over the same time period of 2 years: $2320 total cost.
Wow... I saved -$300 by buying the phone outright!...wait.
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Or use the same carrier and use a prepaid MVNO. If you are going to be stupid it will not save you money.
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h4rr4r, this response is actually for everyone on this thread who called me out for being "stupid." There are many like me who don't fit into the case where prepaid saves money, and this is simply to show how.
I've been on prepaid. Service SUCKS no matter who you go with. It's great if you never have to get off the beaten path, and never have to do remote administration from your phone while you're out in the deep wilderness of the Southeast. If you go with a Sprint based prepaid carrier (Virgin or Boost
T-Mobile or MVNO (Score:4, Informative)
since the subsidy is not a line item, there's no way for them to reduce the bill (still $80/month) over the same time period of 2 years
There are two ways around this: use T-Mobile, which makes the subsidy a line item, or use an MVNO such as Straight Talk or Virgin, which specialize in unsubsidized plans.
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Except that you're stupid to sign up for an $80/mo contract.
With an unsubsidized phone you can get contracts with T-Mobile or ATT for less than $50/month. (I have one for $20 - limited use and my wife who uses the phone a lot more has one for $30/mo).
Run those numbers through your example and you will come out way ahead.
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Let's see. Buy a $600 phone subsidized down to $100, and pay the carrier for the cheapest plan at about $80/month ($50/mo + federal fees & taxes) for two years. $2020 total cost.
In other words:
You pay full price for a $600 phone and get locked into an exorbitant $55 per month plan on top of it.
Meanwhile I can buy a phone at full price and get a prepaid account at any network with no monthly fees or obligations, and I can change networks at any time simply by swapping a SIM card. According to my calculations, I could make 450 solid hours of outgoing calls every month and still be paying less than you. Oh wait - while doing the research to get those numbers I see that with the new pr
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Get a different carrier.
If all else fails: get a different country.
[in the Netherlands, carriers advertise with their subsidized plans, but most carriers have 'sim only' plans and there are also competing secondary carriers which don't have infra but resell the primary's bandwidth. Note that the (unsubsidized) phones in the shop display are priced way too high, so doing the calculation against the 'unsubsidized' phones in the shop will actually convince you to get the contract. Look on the Internet before y
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The most valuable consumer market on earth? Nothing at all... It's quite insignificant I'm sure...
You can buy whatever you want... But the carriers will tell you to go to hell when you want to get service for it. You decide what service you want, first, and then buy one of the phones that carrier is selling for whatever price they decide to charge for it.
It'
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And what is on a world scale relevant about a single market?
The most valuable consumer market on earth?
I think the insinuation is that the United States is no longer "the most valuable consumer market on earth"; the People's Republic of China is.
It's partly a legacy of incompatible standards and varying frequency allocations.
In areas where T-Mobile USA has LTE, I'm told that it uses a more compatible frequency plan, allowing imported phones to work better. So if you happen to live where you can get a T-Mobile signal, that might be your best plan.
Dice is a U.S. company (Score:2, Insightful)
And what is on a world scale relevant about a single market?
Slashdot is operated by Dice, a U.S. company. There will usually be a U.S. slant to stories. That and the coinventors of the telephone in the first place (Bell and Gray) were both U.S. residents.
Tiny Market (Score:2)
I presume the relevant issue is that no US carriers will support it?
...That sort of stupid logic is what ironically killed Nokia. Its even more ironic seeing Apple shares plummet (yes Again) at news that it failed to launch a cheap (to the consumer at least) phone on network with 740Million subscribers.
Personally though I'm wondering when the American carriers will cut Apple of at the knees.
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Once somebody else makes a phone that a LOT of people want to have? Not one of a couple dozen models a company makes. A phone.
For Nokia it is a tiny market (Score:5, Insightful)
Now do you get some idea of why people are taking the Nokia takeover so seriously? A company that has been utterly gutted in a blatant corporate raid is still selling more phones than Apple despite people being told by the CEO of the company selling them that the platform is doomed.
Re:For Nokia it is a tiny market (Score:5, Funny)
No, Elop is what killed nearly Nokia but it's not quite dead yet. Just last quarter they sold 53 million phones in China using the Sybian system.
Uh, not Sybian [sybian.com]
You mean Symbian [wikipedia.org].
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No, Elop is what killed nearly Nokia but it's not quite dead yet. Just last quarter they sold 53 million phones in China using the Sybian system.
Uh, not Sybian [sybian.com]
You mean Symbian [wikipedia.org].
Dude, vibrate mode is its killer feature.
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It would explain the constant weird expression on Elop's face.
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Nokia has brand recognition that HTC can only dream of. The only reason Windows Phone has any traction at all is because of the Nokia brand. Samsung probably aren't the leanest company on the planet but they're making plenty of money on phones. I'd hardly say the Galaxy S4 and Note 3 (or for that matter the HTC One) are in any kind of "race to the bottom".
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I don't know what country you live in but here in the UK Nokia has excellent brand recognition. I personally owned a few between about 1999 and 2005 and the N95 for example (released in 2007) was a huge success. I'm not interested in any forums full of 14 year old basement dwellers, I'm interested in the fact that quite a few people I know have been unfortunate enough to end up with a Windows phone because it had the Nokia name on it. I did own an N900 and it was a big disappointment which I couldn't wai
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Are you really going to play that game after I've mentioned China?
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From Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]:
Yeah the N Series was a huge failure *roll eyes*. By the
Look it up - not hard to find (Score:2)
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That number is no-doubt dumb/feature phones. A dying market with razor-thin profit margins, that nobody cares about any more. Nice way to twist things, though, just mention Symbian and people will assume you're talking about the smartphone platform, and not the tiny RTOS used on dumb
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That word does not mean what you think it does.
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An earlier version of the Android compatibility layer they are using was run on a Nokia N900 and probably would have run on an N9 as well.
So the thing was already there and all Nokia had to do is buy the rights to use it.
I should elaborate in case people are confused - Jolla didn't do that specific part of the software themselves but are licensing it from another company which has been work
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I presume the relevant issue is that no US carriers will support it?
I don't understand.
Why does a carrier need to "support" a phone?
Once upon a time, in a previous century, you had to rent your phone from the "phone company", but those days are long behind us.
Re: Shame (Score:2)
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Oh, sorry, you are living in the previous century.
Say Hi to Ma Bell for me.
(Those who give up freedom to have a working phone network...)
(P.S. I really am sorry, didn't mean to troll, I just forgot about those wierd non-sim networks).
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In fact, I'm wrong.
The verizon LTE network does use SIM's.
There is no need for them to "support" a compatible phone.
Apparently they refuse to activate phones they don't "support", but the trick is to activate the SIM in a "supported" phone and then transfer it to the phone you want to use.
I suggest you contact your local consumer advocate or anti-monopoly authorities, Verizon seem to be behaving in anti-competetive ways that would get their arses kicked where I come from.
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So Verizon aren't doing VoLTE?
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AIUI in the US only one of the major networks (t-mobile) gives users who bring their own phones a decent deal. Another (AT&T) doesn't forbid their use but structures their traffifs such that you effectively pay for a phone from them every couple of years whether you take them up on the offer or not. The remaining two use mostly "CDMA"* technology which doesn't use sims meaning you can only use phones the carrier will agree to activate. This may change with the introduction of LTE but AIUI that is not ye
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You can get an ATT "Go Phone" SIM card and a nice plan for $30/month which is what I have for my wife... more voice, SMS and data than she ever uses for her smartphone.
I have a T-mobile plan which is even cheaper.
You don't have to be stupid and sign up for the $100/month plans.
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You can get an ATT "Go Phone" SIM card and a nice plan for $30/month which is what I have for my wife... more voice, SMS and data than she ever uses for her smartphone.
In France 20EUR (27 USD) gets you unlimited calls and SMS to French mobiles and landlines, unlimited calls to European landlines, unlimited calls to US and Canadian mobiles and landlines and unlimited data (speed capped after 3Gb/month).
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The phone will not be available in US not matter if the carriers want it or not. Jolla has right from the start said they would avoid the US due to the software patent situation there.
Why? (Score:2)
It is a shame this will never be mainstream.
I am confused why not you should see it it looks pretty good. There are still Billions of users still on feature Phones. Microsoft has insisted that their is a need for a third OS in the Market. There is no reason why this shouldn't be the one, and unlike many of the pretenders it has 1Million Applications on launch. It sounds to me like an ideal phone for those wanting a massive application support without Google giving Sailfish a major advantage of many pretenders. Currently Apple are only selling 13% of
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If you had $500 to buy a phone, what would you choose?
The best Value Phone (Score:2)
And are you sure Jolla strives to ocuppy the $50 dollars phone market?
If you had $500 to buy a phone, what would you choose?
Nothing even close to $500 most of the phones only a idiot would pay anything close to that. I have been looking at are around the $200, but I am waiting to see what the Nexus 5 looks like, but I don't have a contract so I'm really not in a rush.
The bottom line is why should an OS not fit on a $50 and $500 phone...Android is already there.
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Mainly because Android is already there.
If windows phone and blackberry missed the train on this one and Ubuntu and Firefox OS also taking a shot at this, what are the chances for yet another mobile OS?
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> If you had $500 to buy a phone, what would you choose?
I'd choose the $50 phone that does all that I need, the rest for blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget about the blackjack.
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You're right, forget about the phone, too.
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Android when launched looked like never would be mainstream. And a factor in its success was cyanogenmod letting install it even on phones that didn't sold with android, like old windows phones.
If Sailfish releases a version that enable to install it in most android devices (i.e. this list could be a guide ) that way to gain market share and buzz around will be available. And when becomes popular enough the phones with it includes will be the natural continuation. [ubuntu.com]
Also, not sure how much "secret sauce" it
no thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:no thanks (Score:5, Insightful)
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http://www.gta04.org/ [gta04.org]
Re:no thanks (Score:4, Informative)
..or, as mentioned below, http://neo900.org/ [neo900.org]
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The only way (Score:3)
You may not care but for the most part people care about the ecosystem not the OS itself. If these OSes have any hope of getting off the ground they either need to attract a humongous number of developers or support the ecosystem of another established platform.
Otherwise you'll find yourself with a dream OS but no hardware which runs it.
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You are very right, grandparent poster has a good point.
The solution: a free phone with an android environment , but in a sandbox.
So all the pretty android apps can ask for my sms, mail history, photos, sd, wife and pet, and I can choose what to feed them. For serious work instead I use the GNU/Linux environment.
Jolla are you listening? you are close to a killer phone, wait it's a killer home pc when technology lets it. Think about it.
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Re:no thanks (Score:5, Informative)
Google Play Store is just another Android app. The only reason that some Android phones don't have it is because the manufacturers choose not to put it on them, but Play Store is able to run on any phone running Android. Is there any technical reason why you can't install Google Play Store on Sailfish OS?
No, just legal ones. Though the play store has so many permissions you might as well grant Google, and by extension the NSA, root access when you install the thing.
Copyright means Google can set whatever terms they want when it comes to companies installing or people using the play store.
Re:no thanks (Score:4, Insightful)
Manufacturers need to pay Google a fee for Play Store. It is just an app, which they could install, and it would work fine, showing all the apps.
It's just that the store would see the device as incompatible with every single app in the store, so you couldn't actually use it to install anything.
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So? How do you know they won't be paying google to licence it? They are paying a third party for the android layer after all.
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Those certification organisations make money certifying products.
Google makes money by controlling the OS.
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Try using the windows POSIX support one time. It was put there just to get a checkbox, not to be useful.
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Or they could put the Amazon App Store on there.
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They have confirmed that Google Play Store is not supported, but they are negotiating with other app stores (Amazon, Yandex ...)
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Android compatibility is a plus for those very specific apps some people want, but Sailfish OS has it's own ecosystem, so it won't be second class. There's also plenty of meego/maemo apps being ported to sailfish OS.
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Android compatibility is a plus for those very specific apps some people want
Unless the publishers of "those very specific apps" choose not to make them available to the public as an APK or through any store other than Google's.
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That's quite right; users can't obtain application which the developers don't wish to sell/give them. Nothing new here.
People choose devices to run applications (Score:2)
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My point is that people choose devices to run applications, and that involves choosing devices by compatibility with the stores on which developers choose to release their applications. If a user's must-have app is exclusive to Google Play, the user is locked into Google Play devices. It's not like game consoles, where someone can just buy one device of each platform and have them share a home Internet connection, because carrying capacity is limited. Consider before smartphones became popular: how often did people carry both a DS and PSP? Besides, cellular carriers in Slashdot's home country tend to impose a separate monthly fee on each device.
But this device not targeted to that particular country which has a very unique culture when it comes to mobile phones and carriers.
Also, the lack/presen
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No, this belongs on a "news for nerds" site. If you are so dependent and coddled by the whole app-store experience, then you are not a nerd and you need to use that other news site you mentioned.
A real nerd/geek/whatever label you want to use is not going to be bothered that he/she can't get their apps through a single source.
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f-droid.org is an alternative to Google Play that's full of open source Android software, pre-built from the source. It's like the debian of the Android world.
I use it on all of my devices, both those with Google Play and those without.
Antifeatures (Score:3)
f-droid.org is an alternative to Google Play that's full of open source Android software
By default, F-Droid hides any application that includes antifeatures [f-droid.org]. So how should one fund the development and maintenance of an open-source Android application, especially a game, without including antifeatures? The business models I've always been told about for open-source games are to make the code open-source but add advertisements (antifeature Ads), or do as Id Software does and make the code open-source but restrict the distribution of the meshes, textures, maps, audio, etc. on which it relies (ant
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Non US (Score:1)
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You can only affect their monitoring policies if you know about them. And they have that sewn up quite nicely, thankyou.
They announced this in a PDF? (Score:3)
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It is very common with press releases.
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Different devices have different sizes (Score:2)
PDF is device independent representation of a document.
Different devices have different sizes. PDF assumes the document is divided into pages of a fixed size, which may not match the size of your device. There are still plenty of web browsers running on devices whose screen isn't tall enough to display an entire portrait oriented A4 or US Letter page plus the OS border.
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What are you doing on Slashdot? We don't read articles here. I find the fact that you are asking this very disturbing.
Re:or was Replicant the first OS to do that? (Score:4, Informative)
Replicant is a fork of Android that replaces the proprietary parts with free ones, so that's by design; Sailfish is a different operating system, so it has to use a translation layer.
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Somebody port a *BSD, or minix, or haiku, or what-have-you to phones already.
Someone has already
http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/11/09/17/2050200/inferno-os-running-on-android-phones [slashdot.org]
but it didn't get much attention
Re:Why, isn't that just peachy (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, so Android now ships with GNU/busybox userland and X (or Wayland in case of Sailfish) out of the box?
python? (Score:3)
You seem to know alot about this device. Where did you get all this info?
I love the python phone/sms/gps libraries that I have in my N900/Maemo device. I don't suppose Sailfish still has that?
re:python? (Score:2)
You seem to know alot about this device. Where did you get all this info? I love the python phone/sms/gps libraries that I have in my N900/Maemo device. I don't suppose Sailfish still has that?
Not so sure that it does, but you can certainly try and find out by installing the Sailfish SDK and poking around in the virtual machine! Also related to the question of Python on Jolla/Sailfish, http://thpmaemo.blogspot.ca/2013/07/the-way-forward-with-python-on-qt-5.html [blogspot.ca] (blog post by perhaps the most noteworthy Python-on-Nokia-Linux-devices programmer out there, Thomas Perl).