Torvalds Uses Profanity To Lambaste Romney Remarks 1223
netbuzz writes "Last night Linux creator Linus Torvalds took to his Google+ page and called Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney 'a f***ing moron.' Torvalds' stated reason? Romney's much-ridiculed suggestion that air passengers would be safer in emergencies if aircraft windows could be opened (a suggestion which some, including Snopes.com, have taken as a joke). Torvalds also recently called Mormonism, Romney's religion, 'bats**t crazy.' Is this just Linus being Linus? Or does such outspokenness on non-technical matters reflect poorly on the Linux community that Torvalds leads?"
Reflects poorly (Score:5, Insightful)
reflects well (Score:2, Insightful)
Since Linus is speaking honestly, he makes the entire community look good.
Oh my goodness gracious! (Score:5, Insightful)
"does such outspokenness on non-technical matters reflect poorly on the Linux community that Torvalds leads?"
Every member of the Linux community checks to see what Linus is wearing before getting dressed in the morning, right? No? Then why are you asking such an apparently stupid question?
freedom of speech (Score:5, Insightful)
Bask in it, motherfuckers.
he's not a leader (Score:3, Insightful)
he's not a leader, he's a coder, bug difference
and if their is one thing the OS community is, it's grassroots, no leader needed
Ehh. (Score:5, Insightful)
Linus is entitled to his opinions no matter how correct they are. However, I would go further and say that the two party system is largely staffed by fucking corrupt morons, and that if you think they are different you are batshit crazy. The two parties are just two arms of the *same machine*. Thank you.
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
"Political Correctness" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Airplane fire expert (Score:4, Insightful)
You don't need "expertise" in religion (whatever that means) to know that religions are `the stupid virus`, and that Mormonism in particular is really fucking stupid.
Seriously, if I started a religion today and said that you have to hit your hand with a hammer every morning, does it make hitting your hand with a hammer not stupid? If not, what test have these other, stupid, religions passed which makes them not-stupid but my one stupid?
What are you, twelve years old? (Score:1, Insightful)
Profanity? From "profane"? Is language sacred now? Even if you think so, are you so immature that someone else's use of language constitutes offensive speech? Grow up (or as he might say, grow the FUCK up).
Captcha: mischief
Come on (Score:4, Insightful)
I had no clue in Romney's tone or anything else he was joking.
It was obvious from his tone in the video (and from body language, and from his laughing while saying it) he was joking. The reporter who was actually there said he was joking. No rational person on earth thinks airplane windows should roll down.
idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
I do agree with him in this sense: you shouldn't need to censor your personal thoughts just for political correctness. Or even "professionalism", as TFA asks for. Even if you're someone of popularity. It shouldn't reflect at all on the Linux community, in the same way Reiser FS didn't become complete shit after Hans' better judgement slipped away from him.
Could he have used more mature words? Sure. But does anyone really care?
Re:freedom of speech (Score:5, Insightful)
You can celebrate the freedom without celebrating each usage of that freedom.
Some points (Score:4, Insightful)
Some points:
1. All religion is bats**t crazy. Mormonism is just bats**t crazy with nuts on top.
2. Linus is probably one of the most important figures in the technology industry during the last 20 years or so. Because of that he is a public figure, so like Romney his offhand statements are bound to be criticized, analyzed, etc. He's much less of a public figure than most politicians so he probably isn't used to this as much, but I guess he'll have to. However, he's not a politician, he's a technical leader, so I think people *should* lay off analyzing such comments.
3. Linus is known for speaking his mind and being somewhat harsh. I don't think Linux would have happened otherwise. However, compared to RMS, Linus is a real gentleman.
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:5, Insightful)
Allowing aircraft windows to be opened is recipe for disaster, pressure and whatnot.
I've opened the window on a plane. I've even opened the door on a plane. If you are at a low enough altitude, it doesn't matter. Of course, I was on a plane that probably wouldn't make it to an altitude that is unsafe, but it was an aircraft and opening them was not a recipe for disaster. The damn thing had air vents!
I don't ask Romney to fix kernel bugs just as I don't look to Linux for political advice. Both should stick to what they know.
The idea isn't so crazy. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Ask Mark Twain about calling a thing by its nam (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:3, Insightful)
I would venture a guess the 15+ million Mormons worldwide do. The fact that the Mormon religion is heavily invested in business (right or wrong considering their status as a religion), I would guess it wasn't Linus' brightest moment--apology or not.
Re:Listening to the video (Score:5, Insightful)
A Republican gaffe is when they state their party platform in public.
Re:Speaking of people being morons... (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't matter now, damage has already been done. It's amazing how whenever the news media doesn't like a politician they will release half-truths, outright lies, and stuff taken out of context and plaster the world with it. Then a few days later a little snippet of, "Oh, we were bad, we're sorry, honest!"
Re:Reflects poorly (Score:5, Insightful)
so ... you're incapable of seeing two sides of the same person? if you disagree with them in one arena, you can't respect them in another? that seems a little simplistic.
Official Statement of the Open Source Community (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
Bright or not, that would be caving to alleged mormon influence, as in "don't piss us off or we will hurt you"
Which smacks of intimidation.
What are they going to do, make all of their business investments run Windows servers?
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:3, Insightful)
What does Romney know about political advice?
Grown man says "fuck" on social site no one uses. (Score:4, Insightful)
And then apologizes the next day because the idiot on MSNBC got it wrong.
And we wonder why politicians never speak their minds about anything under any circumstances.
Re:Come on (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
Since Linus is speaking honestly, he makes the entire community look good.
or that Obama has time for Letterman, The View, Beyonce and JayZ
It's campaign season. Get over it. Every sitting president has campaigned whether it's town hall meetings, stump speeches or TV shows.
Apologies not appropriate, says the Romney camp (Score:5, Insightful)
Fortunately, Romney isn't a Democrat (Score:2, Insightful)
So ... if you have anything to tell Romney, just say it the way you like it.
But if Romney is a Democrat, you sure ain't gonna use colorful descriptions such as "batshit crazy" or "fucking moron", or you will be chastised as "hateful" and whatever you say will be deemed as "hatespeech".
Re:reflects well (Score:1, Insightful)
Wow. He spent some time playing golf. Big fucking deal.
Call me when he spends 3 years on vacation like bush.
http://politic365.com/2012/05/08/obamas-vacations-of-any-president-bush-racked-up-the-most/ [politic365.com]
Bush vacationed at his Ranch near Crawford Texas. He had an office at his ranch and worked from it. He hosted world leaders, had cabinet meetings, the whole nine yards. It actually saved the taxpayers money because his house is truly "green" and is much easier to secure than the White House.
Strange that I didn't see Obama meeting with any world leaders on any of his trips to Hawaii. I don't recall Merkel tagging along when they went to a Broadway show. I didn't see Netanyahu with Obama on The View or David Letterman.
And when Bush was on vacation, the unemployment rates was not over 6%. People can't find jobs while Michelle is whooping it up in Aspen on the backs of the taxpayer.
These [washingtonexaminer.com] guys put it another way:
According to presidential watcher Mark Knoller of CBS, George W. Bush, at this time of his presidency, had made 30 visits to his Texas ranch spanning all or part of 220 days. The Obama’s vacation day count is less than half of that.
But his have become more controversial because of the costs associated with moving the first family to a public vacation spot, unlike the Bushes to their remote ranch in Crawford, Texas. For example, the Hawaii Reporter said the first family’s 2011 Christmas vacation in Hawaii would exceed $1.5 million.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
you shouldn't need to censor your personal thoughts just for political correctness. Or even "professionalism", as TFA asks for. Even if you're someone of popularity. It shouldn't reflect at all on the Linux community
Exactly. On top of this - every actor, actress, musician on the planet is allowed to voice their opinion on politics, religion, etc - but if a technical guy such as Linus does, it is unprofessional?
And just for the record - Mormonism is batshit crazy. It takes an unprecedented level of double-think to believe Joseph Smith's story about the golden plates that no-one ever saw, and his excuses for why he couldn't translate the same transcript the same way twice.
Linus shouldn't need to apologise for a statement that is objectively and obviously correct.
Mormons (Score:5, Insightful)
In my experience, people who criticize Mormonism and call it "batshit insane" don't know anything about it other than "Magic Underwear! Har har har!" and the other tripe they've seen on TV. Nor do they actually know any Mormons. They don't know a thing about the history, the reasons why they do, or don't do, certain things.
It's pretty obnoxious. Mormons are good people - they have different values and traditions than a lot of others, and some of them are certainly weird from an outsider's perspective, but they're good people. You don't see Mormons blowing up buildings. They're more likely to be seen helping needy people - and not making a big deal out of it.
I'd rather live next to a dozen Mormon families than be surrounded by "trollololol spageti monster har har arent i funy" types.
And no, not those fringe cults that bonk 12 year old girls say they're Mormon - because they're not.
I'm sure I'll get flamed for daring to defend a Mormon though, because this is Slashdot and FSM forbid I actually, you know, say anything GOOD about religious people...
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of this is BS like the amount of time Obama has spent with this national security team.
What's Romney's policy on Libya? What is Romney's policy on terrorism? Other than "not apologizing" he seems to mostly agree with Obama. So his policy is what, do what Obama wants just be more of a jackass while doing it?
Romney has repeatedly refused to answer any questions on the budget. Obama's budget's conversely have been rather good blocking Republican spending cuts and continuing the 2009 budget more or less indefinitely.
As for more people being on food stamps or jobs. Obama (or more accurately Pelosi) would love to pass something like the WPA and get them off food stamps and into government jobs. Dire poverty has far more to do with Republicans failing to provide needed stimulus.
Re:Speaking of people being morons... (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting how some people can fully justify blatant media bias.
Bias should bother you, whether it's a candidate you like or dislike, you should be comfortable knowing that the news your receive is honest. When you are accepting of what is an outright lie, you are allowing yourself to live in a fantasy world.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know what he said about Mormonism, but I don't think that should matter either in terms of Linux. If Mormons can't see past one dev, can't see that Linus is just one cog in a very large machine, that's their problem and not his. There will always be political things for some people to worry about, but traditionally devs are more about solving problems than massaging peoples' egos. It's not really that surprising that he's blunt and outspoken.
And why is religion special from anything else, in that it becomes poor form to criticize one after it graduates from being a cult?
Goose Sauce Gander Sauce (Score:5, Insightful)
The irony is palpable. Romney's camp is accusing his opponents of misquoting him, but the centerpiece of Romney's campaign against Obama is a misquote of Obama saying "Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" where they cut out the first part so it says "If you've got a business, you didn't build that. Somebody else made that happen" - something very different.
Romney's camp can't have it both ways: If they want to run on the Obama misquote then how about they accept Romney doesn't understand why aircraft windows don't open.
And as usual, the real issues remain pushed to the sideline as too hard for an electorate who don't have an attention span that lasts long than a soundbite.
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:2, Insightful)
Politics, in the broader sense is the domain of everyone, not just the professional liars we call 'politicians.' Everyone has a right to have an opinion and to give input into the process of maintaining society. Linus has as much right to call Romney a fucking moron as Romney has to express the opinion that 47% of Americans are freeloaders.
As for using words that some people find offensive, they are just sounds - combinations of phonemes. There are few adjectives better than 'fucking' for expressing disgust and disrespect.
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
or that Obama has time for Letterman, The View, Beyonce and JayZ
You realize that he's campaigning, right? These public appearances are part of his campaign. It might be nice if a sitting president didn't have to spend much of his 4th year in a reelection campaign, but I'm not sure how to do that. Maybe longer terms with a single-term limit?
he and his wife flew out to NY on the taxpayer dime for dinner and a Broadway show
People make this complaint about every president - the president really has no choice in the matter, he can't book a ticket on a commercial flight and slip away to NYC for a private weekend with his wife. All of his trips, regardless of reason come with immense security that most individuals cannot afford to pay, so every trip is on the taxpayer's dime. This is the tradeoff we make between protecting our top leaders and saving money. Is there any candidate that will promise to never go on vacation? Would you want such a candidate in office?
the fact that he's spending more time of the golf course than with his financial advisors and his national security team combined
In nearly 3-1/2 years (1200 days), he's played 100 rounds of golf. Once every 12 days. At 6 hours each, that's 600 hours. or 30 minutes/day. Sounds like a reasonable recreational activity. Many people think that recreation outside of work helps them stay more focused on their job, and I'd imagine that's true even for presidents. And much of his golf is played on military courses, which reduces the security expenses paid by taxpayers.
fact that a budget has not been passed since Obama has been in office
Congress has done a lot of things poorly since Obama has been in office, but that doesn't mean Obama is solely to blame.
or the fact that more people are on food stamps, are in poverty and/or can't find a job....
Maybe it takes more than 4 years to completely turn around a huge economic downturn that the entire world is still suffering from.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
Have you ever heard somebody saying things like "people are fucking stupid", "people are morons", etc.?
Do you really think 7B people get upset over this or even care?
Re:reflects well (Score:1, Insightful)
If that's the case, then he's been "campaigning" for the last 3 years. He never stopped "campaigning".
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't ask Romney to fix kernel bugs just as I don't look to Linux for political advice. Both should stick to what they know.
The issue is that the comments come from Linus' personal G+ page. If they should "stick to what they know", then you're implying censorship. Fuck that, and fuck you for implying it.
Self censorship is becoming essential (Score:3, Insightful)
If this was Brazil, he'd be in jail for mocking politicians.
We had only a couple of days, a paper outlawing 'language abuse' in the EU as an anti-terror move. Requiring filtering, automatic language detection, crimes for saying things. Torvalds should be glad he is free to call Mitt Romney bat shit crazy, and I for one will defend his right to say it.
http://www.edri.org/files/cleanIT_sept2012.pdf
Read it, and before anyone says it was just a discussion document, it's not, it's a concrete set of action points in a secret document to which the UK police have already committed themselves.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:4, Insightful)
Bollocks. Everybody should speak about politics if they feel like it, democracy works better that way.
Re:or just (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the motherf***cker is just telling it like it is? I mean, yes, most religions are batsh*t crazy and in America, anything except Catholic, Protestant, or a direct, Jesus-wrote that sh*t his-self, fer sure, is just not going to fly.
Everyone can plainly see that everyone else's religion is just a bunch of hooey.
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:3, Insightful)
I've opened the window on a plane.
You've opened the window on a PRIVATE plane, and at low altitude. Or in some Eastern European budget crackpot "airline"; You CANNOT open the window on a modern commercial US airliner. Even so, having just watched the Romney gaff, a few comments. It doesn't look to me like Romney is joking, on the other hand, it doesn't look like a studious, contemplative comment either. Romney, whatever he is, is not a guy who needs to be aware of how windows on a modern airliner work. Ok, he's stupid, I get that. But this isn't an indicator of how stupid he is. Its an indicator of how careless he is about everyday crap, just like 90% of the public. He doesn't really need to know precisiely how airliner windows work, so he doesn't. Ask him anything about money and I bet he could tell you a few things that Obama couldn't. Torvalds is out of line here.
Re:Listening to the video (Score:4, Insightful)
A Republican gaffe is when they state their party platform in public.
You got that right. 98% of the Republican party's difficulties come from the fact that they have to pretend they're about something other than plutocracy.
Re:Come on (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:freedom of speech (Score:5, Insightful)
You can celebrate the freedom without celebrating each usage of that freedom.
By simple reasoning you then start celebrating a freedom that has no usage whatsoever. For example, you can say again and again that the USA is the most free country in the world, or that it has the lowest taxes and the best business climate. It's very convenient when people learn a dogma without any proof of its validity today. That's why a freedom must be exercised, and only those exercises should be celebrated - and failures to exercise a freedom must be noted and counter-celebrated. Otherwise you will end up with First Amendment Zones, and the only allowed freedom of speech will be the freedom to wholeheartedly agree with the powerful of this world - and only when it's convenient for them.
Re:He actually apologized (not) (Score:5, Insightful)
I hate to have to retract my statement after it has already gone +5 Informative. But it was technically incorrect. He didn't actually apologize. What he said was:
Ok, since I publicly called the guy a f*cking moron, I guess I should also publicly follow up: it does seem Romney was joking. Whew.
Which my brain, fluent in Torvaldish, automatically translated into the English
I am ever so sorry, it seems I have wronged you my good sir. My deepest apologies etc. etc.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it reflect poorly on the linux community? Don't know about that one. Anybody that's even aware that a linux community exists is probably far more interested in technology than Linus's opinions of various politicians. On the other hand I can't think of a single way it could reflect well on the community.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
oh yeah, so I and another 11 people tell you we saw Michael Jackson pissing from above a pink cloud the other day, the fact that I'm not alone in the bullshit makes me credible? give me a fucking break will ya
Re:Fortunately, Romney isn't a Democrat (Score:5, Insightful)
It's only hate speech if it's not true.
Seems like it's most likely to be branded "hate speech" when it is true.
"Hate speech" is just like the false accusations of "racism" and so on. It's a way to try to shut down the discussion at the point where it'd be appropriate to acknowledge that a valid point has been made. It's a cowardly escape route. It's for childish people who think that disagreeing with somoene makes them THE ENEMY and so admitting when THE ENEMY has made a good point and dealing with it like a mature adult (which, oh my god, might involve changing your own point of view) would mean aiding and abetting THE ENEMY. So clearly that can't be done.
Some kind of character attack must be made instead, of course with no corresponding burden of proof. I mean "racist" is a pretty damned serious accusation. It's like calling someone a thief -- you better have evidence. But the goal is not to fulfill a burden of proof. It is to shut down the conversation.
I don't know how it happened but a lot of two-year-olds somehow ended up in adult bodies. Perhaps our scientists should look into this.
make up your own damn mind (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
It does not follow that if you are speaking honestly, that makes your community look good.
Example: If Linus feels that all women should be raped, that would not make anybody look good.
All that said. I personally don't give a fuck.
Re:To people who think clearly (Score:4, Insightful)
He's not really talking to people who hate Democrats anymore. He did that during the primary.
Now he's talking to independent voters who don't vote straight party ticket. People who hate Democrats are going to vote for him no matter what he says.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:3, Insightful)
It's funny. Linus is constantly paraded as the voice of Linux, the father of Linux, the kernel maintainer of Linux he is in essence a default spokesman of Linux. Then when he appears to run off the deep end, people want to act like he is an insignificant player with no influence at all.
The problem with language like this and actions like this isn't that they were done. It is that the profile of the person doing it. Ask yourself, why is it a problem that Chik Fil-A supports organizations that appose gay marriage? Now if it was just people working for the company donating to those organizations and not the head of the company, would it be the same issues? Like it or not, Linus is seen as the voice of Linux mainstream and he is now in Mr Cathy's shoes where doing and saying things can carry consequences outside of someone ignoring you or thinking you are just another bigot.
There is an old saying, there is the truth and there is being mean.
Regardless of how people want to claim they are trying to be, when they criticize others for the sake of doing so, they are purposely being mean. Some claim this is "keeping it real" and I've seen some of those people break down in tears trying to start physical fights with others when it is turned back around on themselves.
So why is it that some people feel they can criticize anyone they want but no one can criticize them? This entire debate is about that. It is essentially, so what if he said something I agree with that hurt someone else' feelings. That's no reason to say something that hurts his feelings.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:1, Insightful)
You don't hang around with many Christians do you
Re:Romney *is* a moron (Score:4, Insightful)
He has a record of taking things that are failing and turning them around.
What 'record' did you read? He runs an economic chop shop, runs up huge debts and then sells off the pieces and fires the workers. He's second hand 'Reaganomics'.
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
Romney does come from one of the most liberal states in the country. So much so that he's not likely to even win his own state in the election. He's closer to, say, a Texas Democrat or Oregon Republican (read: fairly moderate) than the asshat fundamentalist that he's been trying to portray himself as in order to get the nomination. So of course nothing much makes sense. He's not being himself in any of this and refuses to say anything lest he be branded as a liberal by most of the extreme right in his party. After all, his positions ARE pretty similar to Obama's.
The problem is that he was a moderately conservative (his being a complete jerk aside) governor in an extremely liberal state who was pushed into the feeding frenzy that is Washington politics. So of course he got blind-sided. What he considered normal conservative practices and ideology wasn't even on the same planet as what the embittered fanatics in the RNC were espousing on a national level. Note how even Ron Paul also got pushed so hard to the right that he wasn't even able to say much of anything about his core Libertarian beliefs in the primaries.
As for Torvalds, he's as much of a spokesperson for Linux and its various distros and forks as Bill Gates is for Microsoft at this point. He has some connection to the product that he created, but essentially doesn't actually do anything meaningful at this point.
It is NOT obvious he was joking (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the video:
http://www.politico.com/multimedia/video/2012/09/romney-airplane-windows-not-opening-a-real-problem.html [politico.com]
Judge for yourself. My only comment is that IF he was joking, he really needs to work on his delivery.
Re:Come on (Score:5, Insightful)
Romney has crossed "Poe's Threshold", the point where it's no loner certain whether his statements are serious or facetious.
Re:Poorly (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
Does it take more double think than that required for someone dying on Friday and coming back on Sunday?
Re:reflects well (Score:5, Insightful)
Clearly you don't understand the financial markets. The overwhelming majority of things that impact stock values and market prices are not present/actual happenings, but concerns over potential happenings. US President dies? VP might start a war over it, or change economic policies. Leader of middle eastern country gets the flu? Oil supplies might get disrupted by his successor.
A lot of basic policies didn't change between Obama and Bush (sadly), but the president represents the public face and voice of the country moreso than anyone else can. Obama is way more eloquent, patient, and understanding than Bush was, so the overall view of the US has improved from then--it's no longer quite so dangerous for a US citizen to travel to Europe or Asia and admit to being an American. Would Biden do as well as Obama has with this? Probably not. So it does affect more than just the people in his immediate family.
Slashdot sleaze (Score:5, Insightful)
who's F**king Moronic idea was it, that this is even /. newsworthy?
In the run up to the US election, any excuse to publish political story will be taken. It guarantees hundreds of posts ignoring the supposed topic, just rehashing the usual political talking points.
And why is this dumb story sourced to "networkworld.com"? These assholes are just playing the same game, getting pagehits. Link to what Linus actually wrote: https://plus.google.com/+LinusTorvalds/posts/2Z4pgYDFeEm?hl=en [google.com]
Linus is allowed to have personal opinions. He's not putting "Fuck Romney" in the Linux kernel, just writing a personal blog.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
Does it take more double think than that required for someone dying on Friday and coming back on Sunday?
Well Mormonism includes all the christian/catholic double think, and then adds the extra levels of Joseph Smith double think. So by definition I guess that it requires more .
Re:While I might be crazy (Score:5, Insightful)
So, the next time you have something glib to say about Mormons, just run it by a real Mormon first. We'll tell you the truth.
If I ask a Catholic about Catholicism, they'll tell me the truth, if I ask a Muslim about Islam, they'll tell me the truth, if I ask a Hindu about Hindi, they'll tell me the truth, etc.
When I add all those truths together, I'll realise that none of them can be correct without falsifying the others, and so it is unlikely that any of their statements can objectively be considered truth. Especially when there is no existing external evidence to support any of these truths.
I know about the three and the eight witnesses, and other people in this thread have debunked them adequately- including the reasons why they didn't recant. You may be a nice person, and I'm sorry that you base your morals and ethics on a foundation that has no basis in fact. For the record, my statement was about the Mormon religion, not the Mormon people. I don't blame people for holding beliefs that they were indoctrinated with from an early age. However, I believe that people can have sound morals and ethics without appealing to a supernatural authority.
A bigot is someone who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief or opinion. As a strong atheist, I am a bigot about religion in much the same way I am a bigot about my mathematical belief that 1+1=2, that is, there is no question about the facts.
I don't believe that religions should get a pass when being analysed under the spot light of critical thinking, and I certainly don't think that they should get tax-exempt status. It is a pity that so much of the world labours under the misconceptions of their religious belief. I can only hope that one day, with enough education, religions will become as rare as they deserve.
Re:reflects well (Score:1, Insightful)
We should amend that to "Linux was speaking honestly *and rightly*". The windows idea is dumb, and mormonism is a sect-type cult.
I only disagree in that mormonism is not batshit crazy: it fulfilled its intended purpose. The guy wanted to lay lots of women, and found that selling himself as a prophet *and* having god tell him to be promiscuous, worked. Better than the catholic prophet, IIRC.
On the one hand, having a open software standard bearer talk politics doesn't help The Cause. On the other hand, this hypocritical mor(m)on has it coming.
Re:Fortunately, Romney isn't a Democrat (Score:5, Insightful)
Seems like it's most likely to be branded "hate speech" when it is true.
Are you feeling sore or something? There is nothing mysterious about the term "Hate speech" - if the purpose of your speech is to inflame hatred in your audience, then it is hate speech. Of course, it is sometimes a matter of interpretation what the purpose of anybody's words is, but since the purpose of hate speech is to whip up feelings, it will usually be rather short on objectivity while things like accusations and generalisations come thick and fast.
It is perfectly possible to discuss even serious and difficult problems without inciting hate - one good way would be to start out by seeking out any common ground and looking for reasonable solutions.
There is an disturbing irony in the fact that the extremists on both sides of any conflict are so often helping each other by polarising the situation - the anti-muslim extremists are very much carrying fuel to the muslim extremists' bonfire, and are in that sense betraying their own people. To an objective person, the real conflict is not between "The Muslims" and "The Christians", but between those in the middle and the extremists on both sides.
Hmm, I see I have gone OT, sorry about that - but I think what I say is valid in general, and who knows, it may even apply to the subject at hand.
Re:While I might be crazy (Score:0, Insightful)
Is it a religion? Yes? Then it's batshit insane, not just crazy.
Re:Fortunately, Romney isn't a Democrat (Score:5, Insightful)
Celebrities go around spouting politics all the time. They even tell us about the science of vaccines, etc.
A smart person voices a political opinion and it's a scandal? We should be backing him up, not trying to silence him.
Re:Fortunately, Romney isn't a Democrat (Score:5, Insightful)
"Of course, it is sometimes a matter of interpretation what the purpose of anybody's words is..."
This is the entire problem with the any description of "Hate Speech." It is left to the eye of the beholder - which is the very definition of subjective.
How can you have free speech when another persons interpretation can turn it into a crime?
Look - there is nothing in the Constitution about being guaranteed a right to not be uncomfortable with what someone else says, but rather the guarantee is to the person causing the discomfort! If someone chooses to make an extreme comment - then judge them as you will, but it shouldn't be a crime unless someone is harmed physically, or property is destroyed by the person doing the speaking!
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
Political correctness is pre-emptive censorship (Score:4, Insightful)
This was my experience in college.
If someone brings up an aspect of reality that doesn't affirm that we're all exactly 100% equal, then call them a racist, sexist, bigot, homophobe, redneck, chauvinist, classist, ageist or genderist.
This allows all discussion to be shut down except that which fawningly panders to the idea of Total Equality, which has started to become a State religion here in the United States and Europe.
This reminds me of the final days of the Soviet Union. There was a shortage of manufacturing parts that made it impossible to make parts for some machinery. However, if you said that there was no way to make parts, that was admitting that the Soviet system had failed, so you would be shot. The only way to survive was to load boxes with irrelevant junk, deliver them as parts, and then when the failure was discovered, claim it was the weather or a manufacturing error. As a result, the Soviet system had no idea it couldn't make parts that it needed until years later.
I'm not denying the good intentions of many in this regard. I, too, have good intentions toward others. As a scientist however I'm only interested in truth, and not political "truth." That kind of fake truth can get us all killed in a nuclear war or other catastrophic failure, like the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
Case in point:
The dominant religion in the United States is Christianity
The main target audience of South Park are United States citizens
South Park frequently parodies Christianity
Somehow, not only are Parker and Stone still alive (and to my knowledge, have never had violence committed against them due to South Park Jesus), but their show is quite popular in a country where the show makes fun of the dominant religion...
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:5, Insightful)
Why are you a mormon? Is it because you looked at all available religions and selected the one that seemed closest to the truth as you see it? Or was it because your parents are mormon?
Re:idiotic politically correct fears indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
Live in Utah or Arizona for a big serving of anti-Mormons coming up with thinly veiled bigotry like this.
More often than not, they're just excuses for shifting blame from some problem they have in their own lives to some boogeyman (in this case, the LDS church, the "Mormon mafia", etc.). Here's a sample of the whining you'll hear:
Kids - "They won't be friends with me because I'm not Mormon."..."My parents said I couldn't play with Mormons because they're bad." (Yes, that level of bigotry still exists in 2012. I've seen it firsthand.)
Teenagers/young adults - "She won't date me because I'm not Mormon."... "Those f**king Mormons f**king think they're better than me because I (fill in the blank). F**k them all."
Adults - "I got fired because I'm not Mormon."... "Mormons are only nice neighbors with other Mormon neighbors... What are their names? Why should I know?"... "They didn't vote for me because I'm not Mormon."... "I didn't get the promotion because I'm not Mormon. I bet a MORMON got it, instead."... "They wouldn't listen to me because I'm not Mormon." "They didn't accept my offer because another offer was from a Mormon."
Yes, there are some Mormon jerks, but they aren't living the spirit of their own religion, and more importantly, there are jerks in EVERY religion.
Bottom line: People that play those whiny cards - especially those who live around a lot of Mormons and see the good they actually do in society (vs. just listening to secondhand hearsay - like the vague crap this parent post spewed) need to grow a pair and take responsibility for their own lives.
Re:Fortunately, Romney isn't a Democrat (Score:2, Insightful)