Should Microsoft's Amdocs Deal Worry Data Center Operators? 32
On Tuesday, Microsoft signed a patent cross-license agreement with Amdocs Software Systems. They specifically noted in their press release that the agreement covered Amdocs' use of 'Linux-based servers in its data centers,' and noted that Amdocs paid them money for the privilege. In light of the current state of mobile device licensing, with Microsoft getting a cut from most Android device sales, should data centers operators worry about having to pay Microsoft for their use of Linux servers? From the article: "To date, Linux advocates have been hypersensitive to any move Microsoft has made against the open-source OS—which, to be fair, Microsoft has seen as a threat since its inception. It's certainly possible that Amdocs approached Microsoft for a patent cross-license for its own purposes; but if that's the case, Amdocs would likely have disclosed that fact. Amdocs representatives declined to comment on the deal, and the arrangement has been completely ignored on the Amdocs Website. ... The question, though, is whether Microsoft will begin eyeing data-center operators as a similar source of licensing revenue. The company has avoided directly challenging Linux developer/distributors such IBM or Red Hat, instead targeting partners and customers."
Moral of the story (Score:3)
The company has avoided directly challenging Linux developer/distributors such IBM or Red Hat, instead targeting partners and customers."
Don't do business with Microsoft. If this is their new business model, sell your MSFT stock.
Re:Moral of the story (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually they're brilliant.
They're slowly and quietly geting a hold of linux by using their patents. Quietly, I mean because there are no big lawsuits. They're easing into every possible niche where you find Linux.
Apple on the other hand, uses it's patents to bash anyone who opposes them, rocking the boat and pushing everyone out of their comfort zones. They're actually forcing the change of the patent laws.
I'd say it would be for the better, but considering how many laws got twisted back into something even more restrictive, I won't hold my breath. Well, in the USA anyway, the EU, seems to follow a different logic set.
Moral - time wasted fighting can't be made up (Score:3)
Patent crazy North America and Britain = 400 million people more or less. World population > 6 billion. Granted America has in past been capable of a great deal of technological innovation, but the rest of world is catching up quickly while America spirals down in ever decreasing circles of patent litigation. And this is compounded by the fact that any of the "limited by IP lawsuit" innovation they manage to do invariably gets exploited in offshore countries so that for example, the only part of a google
Brilliant in the short-term (Score:1)
we're not sure they did (Score:2)
Who says they did even do business with MS?
For all we know this patent settlement could be $0 and nothing is paid for. In fact, it's pretty likely given the patents that B&N already showed that MS was trying to use for this purpose.
Re:we're not sure they did (Score:4, Interesting)
Amdocs pretty much is the largest vendor of telecommunications ordering, CRM, and billing software in the world. Almost every telecom company of any sort of significant size (anywhere) uses their software. Given the size of these companies I figure this means a user base of at least tens of thousands of people (if not more). And it controls hundreds of millions if not billions of accounts. To implement their systems at large telcos you're looking at costs well north of half a billion dollars (if not closer to the big B), and take years to complete. (Granted not all the costs are Amdocs specific, but much is Amdocs related since a lot goes into systems integration, and it all figures into human and capital expenses).
The core of the systems normally run on Unix or Linux servers (and when I was there the back end used a mix of C, C++, and JEE). The front end is either web based or run on MS machines. And I am pretty sure they have a not insignificant IP portfolio too. Given they set the hardware and software requirements for these systems, and given the size of these systems, ya just gotta figure they have a fair bit of leverage, and turn a lot of heads at their vendors (like MS, IBM, Oracle, HP, etc etc etc etc etc). And since, as some former (like me) and current employees of Amdocs like to say, they exhibit the finest execution of the umbrella principle ever, their influence on systems specifications doesn't end at the end of the implementation project. Once they get in a telco they are there for ever (like an umbrella inserted up your ass and then opened). Most companies wish they could execute this so well. So their influence extends for years into support contracts as well. So ya, go figure.
Re: (Score:2)
.. and Amdocs is an old, archaic piece of shit that everybody is trying to migrate away from.
But, as you point out, it's difficult for even a small system like my employer to migrate to something else. It takes years to get everything working even for the best systems.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:As a D level executive.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Doesn't that only apply to GPL3 software? Plus I'd think that assumes that the author of the code in question had rights to the patent.
The Details (Score:5, Insightful)
See if you look at what they're doing, they're not actually trying to stem the flow of their "IP".
If their IP was valuable, or if they had a reasonable case, they'd take it to redhat, etc...
I mean if I invented something and someone big was selling the same thing.... and I had a case for it.... Why would I go after small potatoes Users rather than the big guy with $1billion dollars?
Unless my goal is to just extract small payments out of everyone because I know that I don't have a real case. Just be enough of a nuissance that people pay me to go away rather than fix the problem. I have no interest in fixing the problem, that doesn't benefit my wallet. Especially if the problem is trivial.
Where's the IBM suit? Oracle? Redhat? no, they could change things so that I wouldn't get my paychecks.
Why not at least tell people what's infringing so that I can be honest? Patents aren't secret anyways, so any patent I have is already public, but how I'm using them isn't. NDA's all around so that nobody ever knows and can't file a class-action for my security payments..
Pay me or I'll smash up your small bar.
Re: (Score:2)
I think this will continue to work until Microsoft hits up a customer who won't roll over, it goes to court, and everything falls apart. But in the mean time, it's basically money for nothing.
You know, if you or I did that, we'd land in jail. But ok...
The Nazgul are watching this closely (Score:5, Interesting)
When this becomes Important to IBM then the Blood Will Flow. The only reason we did not see real action from the Nazgul in The SCO case is that The MoFo ground them into paste (okay it took an obscenely long time but...
They try this with IBM or an IBM partner and they will be PASTE on a STICK.
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Why isn't this criminally prosecuted for being extortion?
Nah (Score:3)
Should Microsoft's Amdocs Deal Worry Data Center Operators?
I wouldn't get too worried about it.
Microsoft is just trying to stay ahead of Apple, Sony, Disney and Oracle as the world's most odious hi-tech/media company.
The ball was in their court this month.
Would really like to see that patents (Score:4, Insightful)
Does anyone still believe MS really has a patent that can affect Linux that hard? There should be tons of Unix and similar O.S. from the 70's to nuke any patent. Every supposed patent MS tries to show will get scrutinized and destroyed in no time. As long as we can see them, of course. How can your judicial system allow for a patent based suit, which includes a government granted monopoly, with the option for the plaintiff NOT disclosing the exact terms supposedly being infringed? If the company received a monopoly grant if also receives some obligations, not only rights.
The reason companies are signing patent agreements with MS is that it's painfully expensive to defend from a patent infringement suit and even more to invalidate a patent. So the cost to pay for each product is relatively small comparing to the millions spent on a trial. Look at the bill of costs from Google in Oracle vs Google: 4 million dollars on only DIRECT expenses, not counting time, bad image and so on.
This system cannot survive as it is, no new tech will ever be developed at USA (which is almost the case now), leaving USA as only leeches of other countries technology advances. If that happens, somewhere in time the other countries will stop paying USA for doing nothing, ACTA like treaties will be declared void and USA will reach a new low. No one will keep paying for rectangular shaped with round corners patents forever.
My hope is that the sanity prevails in short-to-medium time, cause it's already affecting all the economy, not only the USA. Can't you see the storm coming? This system is only making lawyers rich, the cost is growing for every one.
Flavio
Amdocs, the telecom trojan? (Score:2)
How Israeli Backdoor Technology Penetrated the U.S. Government's Telecom System and Compromised National Security
An Israeli Trojan Horse
http://www.counterpunch.org/2008/09/27/an-israeli-trojan-horse/ [counterpunch.org]
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B&N was fighting this FUD but looks like that they capitulate.... http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Barnes-Noble-Microsoft-deal-settles-patent-dispute-1563990.html [h-online.com]
Reading too much into this (Score:2)
I think the posters here have read the press release (or at least the summary) exactly as Microsoft hoped they would. But there's a lot less threat to Linux in this than it may seem. The news is that Microsoft and Amdocs have signed a blanket cross-licensing agreement and Amdocs has paid some money. That's it.
Should Amdocs' cafeteria be using Microsoft-patented techniques in making their breakfast burritos, that's cool now -- It's covered in the agreement (even if it's not likely). And if Amdocs is usi
Goes great with skype (Score:1)