Ubuntu "Memberships" Questioned 210
mxh83 writes "Apparently if you have 'sustained' and 'significant' contributions to Ubuntu, you can become a 'Ubuntu Member' and get some freebies. 'While there is no precise period that we look for, it is rare for applications to be accepted from people contributing for less than 6 months. It is vital to be well prepared for the meeting. You need to convince the membership board that you have contributed to Ubuntu.' Have they thought this incentive through? What about recognition for smaller contributors? And who judged what is a 'significant' contribution to a community project?"
Update: 01/06 20:33 GMT by S : Changed the title to reflect the fact that Ubuntu memberships have actually been around for a few years now.
Let me translate (Score:5, Funny)
"You've contributed many manweeks of your life improving code. We're here to determine whether you might be worthy of receiving a free t-shirt."
Re:Let me translate (Score:4, Insightful)
Well duh, you are supposed to contribute because you like to do it. Whatever they give you back is a plus.
As for who is going to judge what is a significat contribution... I guess whoever is giving you the free T-Shirt (Shuttleworth?)
Aw! (Score:2)
Re:Let me translate (Score:4, Insightful)
But that's the point. Once you start recognizing certain contributors more than others and giving them status symbols - especially where the difference is small and/or largely subjective - you risk creating a "them and us" situation.
Next phase is that the "them", who are probably more numerous and contribute more, feel rejected and decide to tell the clique to stuff it.
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And then contributors will be able to level-grind to earn more achievements. Let's just hope that they don't turn into one of those corporate situations where internal wiki edits and rcs actions count positively in the performance review regardless of substance.
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Looks like an interesting thing - got a transcript?
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No, they aren't the same people. And please, let's stop beating this silly dead PA horse already. It's in upstream GNOME; a decision was made to follow upstream.
Re:PulseAudio (Score:4, Insightful)
And the decision to use a BETA of Grub2 that even the developers say isn't ready for production use? Was that upstream at gnome too?
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"unstable" being the key word, and apt in this case.
If they use it in 10.04 (the next LTS), they can go right ahead and die in a fire.
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Which means yes, it will be in what is supposed to be their standard for production systems.
Brilliant.
Re:Let me translate (Score:5, Interesting)
We're here to determine whether you might be worthy of receiving a free t-shirt.
I hear you get access to the Ubuntu Awards First Class Download area -- no bandwidth throttling for members!
Honestly, I think it's a good idea to give back to the people who have contributed. It's a little bit like Heinlein's Starship Troopers (the movie does not exist) where you're only allowed to vote if you've served in the military. In Ubuntu's case, you're only allowed to be a member, therefore having access to a long list of very lucrative opportunities and items (kidding), if you've contributed. You don't just pay a fee, but you actually help. It's like working in the soup kitchen versus giving money to the homeless shelter.
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I would imagine paying for Red Hat Enterprise Linux or SUSE Linux Enterprise has a much bigger impact than helping Ubuntu directly. Red Hat is a big contributor to extremely important projects [fedoraproject.org] such as the Linux kernel, GCC, glibc, Gtk, and GNOME. They (or companies they have since acquired) created GFS, LVM2, and KVM, and they maintain a lot of other projects that make up any
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You should only be allowed to vote if you pass a test with questions about political issues.
Absolutely. If you'd read the book, you'd know that the military in Starship Troopers had extensive and fairly balanced civic and political education. I don't agree with Heinlein about everything but, having read almost everything he's written, I'd definitely say he's worth reading.
Hmmm... it just occurred to me that I could probably write the first draft of doctoral dissertation on Heinlein's work without pausing to breath...
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Also, if you read any of Heinlein's interviews, you will find that his intention was not that only military service earned citizenship, but ANY federal service, military or not earned citizenship. He did admit that he didn't convey that too well in the book like he had in his mind. Of course the movie, being a bug hunt movie that was converted to Starship Troopers near the end conveys none of that.
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I wonder if *you've* read the book. In the book a course in the "extensive and fairly balanced civic and political education" (called "Moral Philosophy") was required in high school as part of universal public education--*everybody* took the course...but they didn't have to pass it. Military *officer candidates* had to take a much heavier-duty version of it
Re: Moral Philosophy (Score:2)
I've forgotten most of the book. Did he elaborate on how they dealt with divergent views on politics, morals, philosophy? How do you deal with stagnation (one world view) vs change (anarchy)? All of these "sciences" are opinion based and have change over time. For example, "God chose the king" changes to democracy.
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Heinlein dealt with divergent views by ignoring them. On a philosophical level, the biggest difference between the book and real life is that, in the book, there is an accepted science of ethics, and it is possible to use symbolic logic to answer moral questions. In other words, Heinlein posited a world in which his particular opinions were proved correct, and wrote a book about it.
There was no attempt to deal with stagnation vs. change. The form of government was justified on the grounds that it work
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Plato came up with those ideas, not Heinlein. And the movie was a critique of Heinlein's cretinous ideas for social engineering. Maybe you could get that into your doctoral thesis.
Important observations, though I'd argue that the movie was more of a critique of mindless american jingoism and the worship of the action hero, much like Team America was.
Any balanced treatment of Heinlein's work would have to go into great detail about his ever-changing and occasionally dubious moral and political philosophy.
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The movie had nothing to do with Heinlein's book in the beginning. It was originally intended to be a generic space bug hunt movie until the director became aware of the Starship Troopers IP, read a little bit of it (his own words) and adapted the movie to fit the book a bit. It wasn't a critique. In fact he never read the whole book. It was just a title and minor adaptation.
Plato's Republic was similar but not quite the same. It did have a class of citizens that had a sole duty to look after the rest
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While I agree that simply being in the military doesn't mean you know how to vote, don't forget the military (and police to a lesser extent) is the enforcement arm of politics. Someone who was/is in the military will have a different perspective on war and its consequences that may be helpful in making a political decision about the military.
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A T-shirt is surely a laughable salary, unless you look at it from two other possible point of views :
- This is getting better. It was zero a few days ago. Going from zero to something is encouraging.
- This is not a t-shirt, this is a business card and a huge point on your CV. Wearing such a t-shirt at a convention or on a job interview (no, suits are not always mandatory) says "I was recognized for my skill in the Ubuntu
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Exclusivity for envy. (Score:3, Interesting)
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Technical contributions are not the only sort of contributions. For that matter, someone wanting membership whose only contributions are code-based will be told to simply apply for developer status as developer
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You have a point. "Motivations" such as this can actually hurt morale and lead to in-fighting and nasty politics. Mary Poppendieck wrote a great essay [poppendieck.com] on this subject [Warning: PDF]. It's more geared towards corporate environments but a lot of the same principles still apply.
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Mary Poppendieck
No, a spoonful of sugar won't make the divvying up of bonus go down.
Manual Farm (Score:2)
I agree with you. This will backfire. People want status in their chosen group. We are social beings and this is wired in. In an openly competitive system this is not a problem. Some win, some lose. We all know the rules when we start.
But in a socialized context like a FOSS project the motivations for contribution are far more complex -- sort of fragile. People sacrifice for an idea and a common goal. And as long as all feel the equality of sacrifice and perceive that common goals are being met then there
LOL. (Score:2, Insightful)
Which marketing department dipshit thought this stupid idea up?
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Which marketing department dipshit thought this stupid idea up?
Mark put together this process from the start to ensure a healthy community that could grow. it seems to have worked wonders so far.
Wow.... things have *really* gone downhill (Score:5, Insightful)
You need to convince the membership board [...] And who judged what is a 'significant' contribution
This is amazing... we've gone from people not reading the articles, to not reading the *summaries*, to the *submitters* not reading what they themselves wrote!
CmdrTaco, I know it's tradition for editors not to read the summaries, but isn't it taking it a bit far to not read ones you wrote yourself?!?!?
differences (Score:2)
It's a perfectly fair question. The membership board needs to have defined standards; if they're just willy-nilly casting votes yes/no, and they're "members", then the membership is almost certainly going to consist of a very small group of people who hold the same opinions (or are friends / business partners.)
They also should be held
You Didn't Read Yourself (Score:2)
Yes, there is a membership board but it is perfectly reasonable to question who is on that board and what criteria they use or will use. The second statement does that. The two statements you've quoted are not the same thing and the former does not answer the latter. OK, the latter is not great English, but fuck, this is Slashdot and with the amo
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What are you pointing out exactly?
He's asking who determines who decides what is "significant", and the answer was two sencences earlier - the membership board.
Some part of it is a quote from the website.
Exactly - he quoted the answer, then asked the question.
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Perhaps he wanted to know who would be on the board. Shuttleworth? Markting drones? The existing members? Users? Me?
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He wants to know WHO is on this "membership board" and what their credentials are for judging a contributor's worth.
What? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What? (Score:5, Funny)
It sounds like one of those dreadful golf clubs
sounds like you've done driver development, before..
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I wouldn't want to be part of any club... (Score:3, Funny)
I like the quote in the article, "Instead, people should set a goal of making substantial and sustained contributions to Ubuntu. By doing this, the focus shifts from working hard in order to get one of the Membership benefits to working hard in order to make Ubuntu a greater distribution and improve the community,"
You know, people are going to want the benefits.
I wonder if bitching about the GUI or how I don't get to sync my blackberry using a GUI I like counts.
Is there a suggestion box? (Score:2, Funny)
Do I get to complain about lame mono apps being included in favor of better gtk or KDE ones.
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If they are not in the repository yes.
If they not in the install no. Just create your own distro or use another one.
Well yea you can complain anyway but are the gtk and KDE apps really better or just not mono?
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> Well yea you can complain anyway but are the gtk and KDE apps really better or just not mono?
If I want a small quick tool to easily manipulate an image then yes.
I am actually better off with a old copy of xv that hasn't been maintained in years.
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s/years/fifteen years/. There are user-created patches (google for them) but the official xv 3.10a was released on the last day of 1994. And it still kicks ass; I've been using it heavily today.
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Is XV in the repository? can you apt-get it?
If so I don't see the problem.
What XV isn't FOSS? It is shareware???
Damm you damm you too hell for using that spawn of Satan on the Holy OS that is GNU/Linux.
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If you want Ubuntu with KDE environment and apps as "standard", Canonical has a distribution for that [kubuntu.org].
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No they aren't.
They pull in a whole load of their own mono specific crap that a system would not otherwise need.
They aren't just "gtk apps".
More importantly, they are still LAME.
That has been the key problem that tends to get missed in all of the anti-patent and
anti-microsoft paranoia that tends to erupt every time that mono is mentioned. The
stuff that's been built with it so far just isn't terribly compelling. Just on a pure
"features" or "requirements" basis it doesn't impress anyone without an axe to grin
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Unlike some of the actual Windows applications, nothing in mono thus far
is good enough or compelling enough to even entertain the question of
whether or not one should put up with Microsoft just to some bit of
convenience.
We don't even get a proper version of Silverlight out of the deal.
Mono apps are more than capable enough of failing on their own merits.
Why not? (Score:5, Informative)
You already have to [digitally] sign a document and agree to a code of conduct in order to become an "Ubuntero", which among other minor benefits is necessary in order to get access to the PPA system. This is just another layer of evaluation for another icon next to your name on Ubuntu sites and... whatever it was they're giving you. In return, they give you the right to represent yourself as a "member" of Ubuntu, kind of like an employee except you don't get paid :)
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Well, there used to be a problem in the Ubuntu Code of Conduct in that it contained some guff about Shuttleworth (or 'SABDFL') always being right and such. That made me, even though I am quite active in Ubuntu, refuse to sign the Code. Most of those references have been taken but it still refers to SABDFL as being perfect. Come on, Ubuntu project, this is not a religion. Remember, No kings, no queens but rough concensus and running code (to roughly paraphrase IETF's original credo)...
Remove the last referen
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If you don't have /somebody/ with final say, you'll end up with another Debian that doesn't have any sort of release schedule or anything to distinguish itself.
Besides, Shuttleworth's financing the distro.
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What does it matter that Shuttleworth finances the distro? He does not finance me, nor any of the other volunteers. Counted in hours*$ their contribution is bigger than Shuttleworth's but they (rightfully) do not get an exception in the Code. Neither should Shuttleworth or anyone else. Having a leader does not mean that person is infallible.
Developers are a picky and meticulous lot. This joke in the Code does not fall well with many, just search the web for "ubuntu code of conduct sabdfl". There is even a b
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Quit taking yourself so seriously, snowflake.
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Releases which are stable and are not shipped in a broken state would seem to distinguish Debian from Ubuntu rather clearly.
On a broader level to say Debian doesn't have anything to distinguish itself is foolish. It runs a Linux kernel on at least 11 different architectures and can also run a FreeBSD kernel on i386 and amd64. Debian is the origin of the APT package management tools widely used by derivatives and others. It has a Social Contract. Etc. etc. etc. To see it as undistinguished or having not
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Or you could parse that as "You'll end up with another Debian, with nothing to distinguish it from the many other Debian-based distros". I don't read Nimey's post as implying anything about Debian.
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Actually, Debian as always had leaders. Right now it's Steve McIntyre [debian.org].
And Debian now has a release cycle:
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Debian's mainly been herding cats, and there's never been a benevolent dictator a la Linus or Shuttleworth.
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There is actually a difference between the Code of Conduct you read on the website (http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct) and the one you are supposed to sign (https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1). The former does not refer to Shuttleworth as being any different from anyone else - it actually does not refer to him at all. That is just as well as he plans to step down next year...
I guess they forgot to update the version you are supposed to sign?
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The point of that clause isn't about papal infalliability so much as laying out expectations. There is no inquisition called upon you for calling out SABDFL on technical or moral grounds. Instead we expect leadership to set a higher example, and hold them accountable to it. The key phrase you failed to quote is "expected to be perfect".
I admit though, that the ways in which you can hold leadership accountable is limited. All members vote on the Community Council, and all developers vote on the Technical Boa
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You already have to [digitally] sign a document and agree to a code of conduct in order to become an "Ubuntero", which among other minor benefits is necessary in order to get access to the PPA system.
I assume you mean to host your own PPA (Personal Package Archive) [launchpad.net]; there's nothing stopping any anonymous user from downloading from existing PPAs. [launchpad.net]
Not news (Score:5, Informative)
Ubuntu members get @ubuntu.com addresses, their blogs syndicated on planet.ubuntu.com, a free subscription to LWN, and they vote for certain things.
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Ubuntu membership has not been introduced recently, it has been around from before I started Ubuntu (2006), at least. This is not news. The title needs changing.
Which could have been determined by Taco with just a little basic research. An e-mail. A text message. Anything.
I'm trying to decide whose failure was more epic: Taco (lack of fact-checking) or mxh83 (lack of knowledge). Leaning towards Taco as the "winner." Any thoughts, folks?
DD (Score:3, Interesting)
I wonder if a Debian Developer who has uploaded a new package version to unstable since Ubuntu first forked would be approved? Or upstream developers? I presume not and this is just about recognising contributions exclusively for the benefit of Ubuntu.
I'll resist a rant and simply offer a link to Greg Kroah-Hartman's speach at the 2008 linux plumbers conference to show why I for one value contributions to Ubuntu as next to worthless http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3385088017824733336 [google.com]
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I am a member of one of the membership boards (Americas board)
No, Ubuntu Members are people who contribute to Ubuntu directly, not indirectly. There is a lot of work involved in getting Ubuntu out the door every 6 months, and membership recognizes the people who help do that in a direct way.
That said, upstream developers and Debian developers have the advantage of already knowing how a lot of things work, so they will probably have a higher chance of getting through than anyone else (there are separate coun
...chewie (Score:5, Funny)
I wouldn't worry too much about that.
Like, okay, you know in Star Wars, when Leia hands out medals to Luke and Han, but Chewie's just standing there on the podium - he doesn't get a medal?
Well, here's the thing, if you're an Ubuntu contributor and you're chosen for membership, it's like getting those medals. But if you're an Ubuntu contributor, and you're not chosen for membership, you're like Chewie - no medal. But that's not a bad thing, because, you know what? Chewie is standing up there on the podium too, and you know what, it doesn't matter if he gets a medal - because Chewie is a frickin' bad ass, and Chewie knows it.
Hell, the only reason Chewie doesn't get a medal is cause he's got like 20 or so of his own from back in the day. Let the noobs have some fun, you know? Besides, if he wanted too, he could take that medal from whiny-boy or smirk-merc. Lightsabers? Blasters? They're no use when you fuggin' rip their arms out of their sockets.
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I've got moderator points to use, but this comment of yours required a more personal plaudit (besides, you were already tagged @5). I think everybody who is ever in a position where he or she has to judge a group of people and pick only one winner should consider reading it aloud at the awards ceremony.
The Highlander nature of human competitions has its drawbacks...
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If you really want to pay me back for the comment, wait until I sign up with my new login, "boykotemplatedigital", then put in a good word when I say something smart there.
Here's the thing. I'm in new media marketing. I write the company blog for CA|NetQoS, and part of it is promoting both the blog and the CA|NetQoS products... ...which are awesome... ...but from day one (October 9, 2006) I've always taken the stance that when I participate in blogs or social news sites, or forums, or whatever, when relat
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"Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, that does not make sense! If Chewbacca didn't get a medal, you must acquit! The defense rests."
openSUSE members (Score:4, Insightful)
openSUSE has had a very similar program for some time.
http://en.opensuse.org/Members [opensuse.org]
Members get to vote on the board, and get a free boxed/retail copy of each openSUSE release.
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The membership page says you must make contributions to become a member. It says it gives out boxed copies to those who make contributions.
The members I've talked to have received boxed copies. I assumed to become a member, you must make the type of contributions that would also meet the threshhold for retail copies.
I tried to make contributions. I made some bug reports, helped people on the forums, and did some work on the wiki. I was also the first volunteer to lead up a new Proofreading team. (Despite th
Animal Farm Meets Revenge of The Nerds (Score:2, Troll)
This project is well on its way to becoming a kleptocracy. While there are many moribund software projects, this one is destined to become an organization filled with status/power seeking individuals vying for trinkets and icons with the persons responsible for distributing the trinkets surrounded by yes-geeks while the amount of giving back to the broader community continues to decline.
Chances are excellent the project will take on much of the Miguel De Icaza weirdness. An example would be seeking approv
What's Significant? (Score:2, Insightful)
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They should (Score:3, Insightful)
They should initially include any and all Debian contributors.
Membership is not that difficult (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm a member and I've never contributed a piece of code.
I do a bit of bug triaging and reporting on Launchpad. I work with the Loco here and people locally to get involved and educated in free software using Ubuntu.
If you ask me the membership doesn't do much overall. The major reason I went for it was to get the @ubuntu.com email address that l think helps on the advocacy front when I give someone my business card. Makes it seem more legit in some way.
Re:What about money contribution? (Score:4, Funny)
What about money contribution?
Sorry but no - protestantism allows you to buy your way to heaven, not FOSS
Re:What about money contribution? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What about money contribution? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:What about money contribution? (Score:4, Interesting)
They retconned that. Now you're just supposed to give money if you want your church to stay open.
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I saw it myself in Ireland in December 2007. You take your Christmas cards to this booth outside the church. A priest puts a stamp on each card for one pound per card.
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There~
Re:What about money contribution? (Score:4, Informative)
What about money contribution?
Sorry but no - protestantism allows you to buy your way to heaven, not FOSS
Actually, indulgences (buying your way into heaven)was one of the practices of the Roman Catholic CHurch that the Protestants were protesting.
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I've heard this touted many times, and that Catholicism was non-works-based and Protestantism changed all that with the Reformation, turned it into a money thing, etc. Don't you guys read history?
The major reason for the Reformation... Martin Luther could not stand indulgences. That was a major player in it. And he didn't think salvation, as laid out in the Bible, is based on human effort - as he was taught as a monk. And tried to accomplish.
Protestantism's very start was because of the corruption of th
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Catholicism is works-based. Catholics believe that Jesus opened the Gates to Heaven but you still had to either do enough good stuff (or pay in place of that) to get in. No idea what Protestants back then thought,
I think I have a fairly good idea. A major tenant of Protestantism, when it started (via the Reformation) was sola fide, or "faith alone." In other words, salvation comes through faith, not works. Specifically, sola criste, faith alone [through> Christ alone.
but nowadays they tend to say that your actions have nothing to do with it because faith alone gets one into Heaven. Though uh, actually the Calvinists of that time period believed in Predestination: God knew before you were born where you'd end up, and your life was simply an outward reflection of that
That is not quite right. Predestination is an action of God "destining," not just "knowing" or acknowledging. Predestination - at least Calvinistic - is that God chose who would be saved. Specifically, it is that God chose who would be saved, n
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Sorry but no - protestantism allows you to buy your way to heaven, not FOSS
I'll happily set up a Foolbuntu download site and charge 999$ for download access, hey it worked for that iTunes app didn't it?
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I'm pretty sure I make Slashdot significantly worse.
Penis penis penis penis penis.
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Personally I think stuff like that is pretty good. If you want to motivate people to work hard, sometimes you just have to show them that their work is appreciated. There are a wide variety of ways to show it, so pick one. Showing your appreciation becomes all the more important in these sorts of collaborative efforts where contributors aren't being paid.
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So what you're saying is...
"I'm Mark Shuttleworth's drinking buddy, and Ubuntu 9.10 was my idea!"
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