GIMP Dropped From Ubuntu 10.04 900
kai_hiwatari writes "It looks like the Ubuntu developers consider GIMP to be too powerful for a normal desktop user. They are removing it from the upcoming Ubuntu 10.04. Among the reasons cited are that the UI is too complex, it takes up room on the disc, and 'desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot.''"
Only removed from default install (Score:5, Informative)
Let's be clear - it's not removed from Ubuntu, it's removed from the default install.
It's still a click away in the package manager.
Sounds sensible to me. I'd imagine the vast majority of Ubuntu users are unlikely to use the gimp.
Eh. (Score:3, Informative)
If GIMP were actually being dropped(i.e. the devs said "fuck it, it isn't worth packaging for our repos, users who care can get it from a third party repo or build it from source.") that would be news, and bad news for GIMP. As it is, though, Ubuntu makes it trivial to find and install programs that are in the default repositories.
Re:Yep (Score:3, Informative)
Don't forget Paint.NET (Score:5, Informative)
On Windows there's also my personal favorite, Paint.NET. It does WAY more than Paint, it's fast, and it's free. It ain't Photoshop, but it's all I need.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:4, Informative)
The name says what it does (Score:3, Informative)
why do the developers of gimp refuse to change the name?
"GNU Image Manipulation Program" is a program published by the GNU project that manipulates images. As a descriptive name, it's no worse than "Microsoft Internet Explorer".
Good (Score:1, Informative)
I may be just me but as a casual user, I'm glad someone else realises this.
I use Irfanview for conversion, resizing, cropping and other basics (yes, even on Linux - sorry but it runs perfect on WINE and does 90% of what I need to do to get photos from digital media or my scanner, get them ready for going across the internet, onto various accounts, to relatives, etc. in a decent time). I use Paint Shop Pro, or the virtually identical but cheaper ancient-version-of-Serif-Photoplus that I still have, for anything more "fancy". With those I've done everything from creating panaromic photo images to creating individual bits of clipart, to doing curves, borders and backgrounds for websites and all sorts.
But GIMP? Hell, I don't even know where to start whenever I load it. I've installed it dozens of times thinking I must be missing something that makes it easier to use but it's just not worth my time. The photoshop-modifications made it a million times simpler in a matter of seconds, why they aren't the default I can't fathom.
Simple fact is, I specify software for schools. If they demand a free bit of software, we use Irfanview for scanning, conversion, cropping etc. and maybe Artweaver for anything that needs to be created. GIMP has never got past the "WTF is that" stage of its initial screens.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:4, Informative)
Not forgetting on OS X Pixelmator [pixelmator.com] which is a truly *excellent* piece of software
Re:Download size (Score:3, Informative)
I just installed it on my kubuntu laptop. It's an 8 MB download. I just installed Lightroom 3 on Windows the other day. That's a 120 MB download.
Re:Download size (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What is F Spot? (Score:2, Informative)
apt-cache search f-spot
sudo apt-get install f-spot
http://f-spot.org
Re:Don't forget Paint.NET (Score:1, Informative)
Paint.mono [google.com] is the Linux port of that program. It exists, and it works, but it's miles away from the power of the Gimp. It's paint, not a photo editing application.
Re:Yep (Score:4, Informative)
In how many editors is the red-eye-removal tool something that actually manipulates the red layer of the image rather than just being a black paint tool?
It seems stupid that Gimp is one of the few editors that will not mar your photos if you try to do red-eye removal on something like the cheek but it is true. The dang thing is a tad more complex than a "simple editor" needs to be but it at least gets the "technical details" of the process correct. The "simple tools" don't.
I've been suggesting a "granny gimp" sort of UI theme for a long time.
Re:Don't forget Paint.NET (Score:1, Informative)
He noted that it's for Windows.
And there has been some success in getting Paint.NET to run on Linux: http://code.google.com/p/paint-mono/ [google.com]
It may be unofficial, but it's a start and defeats your "probably never be available for Ubuntu" comment. Paint.NET is really quite nice.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, that's officially being worked on right now. [mmiworks.net]
Personally, I like the multi-window layout, but I'll certainly give the single-window UI a shot.
They've got this one backwards. (Score:4, Informative)
It's not that Gimp is too powerful for the normal desktop user, it's the fact that Gimp's user interface is way, way too confusing for anyone but those who REALLY want to learn it. I've been using Adobe and Corel paint/photoediting programs for 15 years now and, let me tell you, that knowledge does not necessarily translate to Gimp. It's like starting from scratch, and not in the "about time someone rebuilt this from the ground up" kind of way, more of the "what the hell were they thinking?" kinda way. Then again, it's open source. It's powerful software created by people who'd rather be using a command line anyway...
Re:Only removed from default install (Score:5, Informative)
If you want Slackware you know where to find it.
Re:If GIMP is in universe (Score:5, Informative)
Try Debian Unstable.
It's almost always newer than Ubuntu. Stuff is updated very regularly and you don't have to mess around with PPAs.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:3, Informative)
It actually alters the RED part of the eye. It won't just drop a blob of black on the image where ever you happen to click. It won't alter the image if there isn't a red eye there to be corrected.
THIS is the problem with "moron interfaces". No one bothers to notice or care if the functional parts make sense.
Oddly enough this makes the "complicated" interfaces easier to deal with since you have to clean up fewer mistakes and can be more crude with how you "aim" the tool.
Re:I have no issue with this (Score:2, Informative)
Add a layer to crop in GIMP? I use GIMP a lot and all I do is select an area and crop it. It sounds like you're talking about masking, which is overkill for cropping something.
Re:They've got this one backwards. (Score:5, Informative)
No, what it's REALLY about is the amount of space it takes up on an install CD, and the fact that even your proverbial Grandmother could figure out how to install it off the internet with one mouse click using Ubuntu's amazingly slick package management interface.
This story should have been titled "Ubuntu speeds up install process for people who don't select Gimp", except that would make it too obvious that there is no story worth writing about here.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:3, Informative)
The summary leaves a little of the story out. Per TFA, it's not included in the DEFAULT INSTALL, but isn't removed from the repositories and is still available for install.
A simple sudo apt-get install gimp will install it on your system.
The article makes it sound like Gimp won't be available. It may as well go on to list all of the other software that isn't installed by the default installer, but that list is extensive.
Re:Don't forget Paint.NET (Score:5, Informative)
Plus it's written in [expletive deleted] .NET, so it will probably never be available for Ubuntu
That's funny, because Ubuntu is including F-Spot, which is written in C#.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:3, Informative)
In Ubuntu, newbies don't even have to call up a terminal
Just open "Software Center" -> "Graphics" -> "Gimp" -> "Install"
Re:What is F Spot? (Score:3, Informative)
"What is it and where is it?"
Are you sure didn't mean G Spot? :)
Which is the name of a program for identifying the codecs used in .avi files, so you know what to get to be able to play them.
Seriously.
Re:Another stupid move by ubuntu (Score:4, Informative)
I disagree. Serious users will know exactly what they need and download it. 'Regular' desktop users will do fine with FSpot.
It's not as if they are banning GSpot from the desktop. People can always download it if they prefer.
Re:I have no issue with this (Score:3, Informative)
Gimp is a lot more intuitive than Photoshop if you're used to Gimp.
It really isn't. Gimp lacks of toolbar is annoying (had to patch that in myself), the use of multiple windows gets in the way a lot, no proper line, circle, etc. tools (no, stroking/filling a selection is not the same), the palette editor is abominable, the brush dialog unsortable and there are many other weird little things, like that you have to Ctrl-Alt+mouse-button to just move a selection, that make Gimp less then perfect. And whats the point of the "Floating Selection", why isn't that a normal layer?
The good thing is that Gimp is constantly improving, the bad thing is that it is doing so at a snails pace. Hopefully the availability of some competition will speed things up in the future, Krita is starting to look extremely good in terms of features, its just still a little to broken to be usable.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:2, Informative)
Hint -- GTK stands for GIMP ToolKit. Guess which came first.
Ubuntu Studio (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:3, Informative)
I thought that the Gimp was originally a tech demo for GTK that kind of got a little out of hand.
No, originally it was Motif-based. (There was a period where people were trying to muddle along with Motif-alternatives like Lesstif, and use those to get things like GIMP running...) I believe the switch to GTK was about the same time they added layers (early versions had channels only, I think)...
GTK was introduced via the GIMP project. It was originally the "GIMP Toolkit"
I've honestly never understood all the complaints about the GIMP interface...
Re:Another stupid move by ubuntu (Score:2, Informative)
I'm a graphics professional and have been using linux for about 10 years. I can safely say, all the times I've tried to use the GIMP even for simple tasks it's just pissed me off. The average user isn't going to attempt to use a program with that high of a learning curve with so little payoff. Online photo editing sites are better than this bloated piece of garbage.
If the GIMP is supposed to be a pro grade piece of image editing software, how come they can't even get a professional to design the graphics on their website?
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:5, Informative)
crap?!?
I confess - I've tried several photo suites. I would love for Gimp to be as good as or better than photoshop, and it's not.
It *is* 90% of photoshop, at 0% of the price, which is far more than any of the other (half-dozen) suites *I* have seen in various jobs. It has one major failing that they're working on in the palette issue (I happily concede having never been in a situation where that made the slightest difference. That said, sure I don't do desktop publishing, but I'm am not egocentric enough to go "Sure it's a major field but I don't use it so who cares!". Yeah, it's a major failing that doesn't happen to affect most users.)
But it's a great software application, it's simple/intuitive enough that my *mother* can use it (Admittedly, she wasn't ruined by using photoshop first), it does 90% of what it's strongest competitor does, 99% of what any standard user will do, it's a small (~35 mb vs 1 Gig(?!?!) required for CS!) install, it runs well (Let's not get into the *other* CS requirements), and it's, ah . . . not the price of a used car.
You keep using this word - I do not think it means what you think it means.
Pug
Re:Another stupid move by ubuntu (Score:3, Informative)
What the hell are you talking about. This isn't windows, you don't have to and shouldn't be using the root account for day to day activities, but when you need it "sudo -s" gets you a nice little root shell and off you go. And if you really really want to login as root, it takes seconds to turn that on. Not having root enabled by default encourages people to use standard accounts and that's a good thing. If you don't like it, stop whining and change it to work the way you want to.
Re:Yep (Score:3, Informative)
There's a list of, what, six reasons to drop Gimp. None of them is a 'godawful' UI. Complex, yes. Poor? No.
I'm just saying your arguments are too dishonest and far too vague to be taken seriously.
Re:Only removed from default install (Score:2, Informative)
Funny thing is that Slackware includes Gimp therefore making it more user friendly than Ubuntu.
Re:Where does this leave GIMP? (Score:3, Informative)
The danger now is that F-Spot will grow [...]
F-Spot truly sucks. Every time I try to use it's it's empty and wants to "import" stuff from my Photos directory all over again. The interface is ghastly, and it runs like a turd in porridge. The quicker someone can write a photo manager that works, the better.
Gimp interface (Score:2, Informative)