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Five Things You Can't Discuss about Linux 662

gondwannabe writes "Here are Five Things You Aren't Allowed to Discuss About Linux. With considerable chutzpa, an insightful Rob Enderle takes on what he considers five dogmas in the OSS community and explains why they're wrong. Examples: Linux is secure, "communes" actually work in the long haul, and that Linux is "pro-developer."
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Five Things You Can't Discuss about Linux

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:12AM (#18288756)
    He's a paid astroturfer/troll, why give him visibility?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Jesus, the Microsoft shills are out in force.

      This first post was rated "0:Insightful"!

      Fucking morons.

      Rob Enderle is the biggest fucking joke in so-called "IT journalism", not to mention his piss-ant "research organization."

      He's a paid Microsoft shill whose only job is to attack Linux at every opportunity.

      The dildo-heads here at /. who think his piece is some sort of "news" are obviously utter morons.

      Obviously this crap was posted here just to start a flame-war because it's a slow Friday.

      And of course it wor
  • Rob who? (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rogerborg ( 306625 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:12AM (#18288768) Homepage
    Funny, I can't seem to find his name in any kernel commmits. Does he contribute under a pseudonym?
    • Re:Rob who? (Score:5, Funny)

      by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @02:35PM (#18291860) Homepage Journal
      Rob Enderle does not actually exist. It's a pseduonym used by IBM lawyers to discredit SCO.
    • Re:Rob who? (Score:5, Funny)

      by vimh42 ( 981236 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @02:47PM (#18292042)
      Rob: First you must understand the truth.
      Linus: What truth?
      Rob: There is no Linux.
  • by Jhon ( 241832 ) * on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:13AM (#18288770) Homepage Journal

    I think the thing that bothers me the most about Linux is IT advocacy. IT shouldn't be an advocate of any product, because it needs to make determinations between them.
    I think my eyes are messing with me. IT shouldn't be an advocate of any product? Am I missing something?

    He's right, it's our job to determine the best product for a given task given budget constraints, resources available, etc. But once we determine the best product, how can we NOT advocate it?

    This following quote is very telling about the author's motives :

    The reason Linux has been abstracted into a concept is so it doesn't have to compete on merit. It can be anything, in concept, it needs to be to win a deal.

    Enderle clearly implies there was some sort of deliberate conspiracy to deceive by the people advocating linux. WTF? Does he really believe that?

    I hate Linux Nazis and I don't think Linux or OSS is the best solution in all -- or even most cases. However, there are a lot of things in this article that are just wacky.

    That said, Enderle does make some very good observations on community based works (that apply outside of IT as well) and some interesting comments on security. Just read him with an extra critical eye.
    • by SatanicPuppy ( 611928 ) * <Satanicpuppy@NospAm.gmail.com> on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:29AM (#18288968) Journal
      I advocate linux for the same reason that I advocate a lot of tools that work...having such things nearby makes my life easier. Every time some piece of microsoft infrastructure breaks, I replace it with linux.

      I'm not sure how linux security is a myth either...All the DMZ machines at work are linux machines, and I've never had any problems with them...I get more problems from the windows machines that sit on the plague-ridden windows-centric supposedly secure corporate WAN. My home network is secured by a linux router and I've never had problems there either, despite the massive sort of bot scanning that infests consumer ISPs in this country (I get faaaaaar more security hits at home).

      As for being developer friendly...When I can install windows and have it come with compilers and libraries for half a dozen different programming languages, then we'll talk about "developer friendliness". Fedora recently started bundling Tomcat with their distros as an installable option...Anyone who has ever installed Tomcat knows how valuable that is.

      Linux has it's issues, and it's not perfect, but it is a good tool, and it has a great place in IT infrastructure.

      • by computational super ( 740265 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:47AM (#18289206)
        I advocate linux for the same reason that I advocate a lot of tools that work...having such things nearby makes my life easier.

        Exactly. When Linux started to become mainstream, I took some time to step back and evaluate why I liked it so much, to make sure that I wasn't just jumping on a bandwagon. The truth is, I prefer Linux because I preferred Solaris when I was in college. Why did I like Solaris so much, though? It wasn't my first OS - the Commodore 64 "OS" was my first (and it was very gentle with me). I did DOS for years after that before a kindly soul who lived in the university computer lab opened my eyes to that tiny room of Sun terminals hidden behind the huge lab of PCs. Solaris - that is, Unix - just "clicked" with me. Everything was designed to work with everything else in a holistic, hard to characterize way. No longer was I working around deficiencies in the design of the system - the system was working for me. Going back to DOS (and later Windows) was just painful. When I graduated and discovered that the only jobs available to a non-top-ten university CS graduate were programming DOS or Windows, I wept. When I discovered that if I wanted a computer at home, I could choose between DOS or Mac, I gnashed my teeth in frustration. (I graduated college just about the same time Linus started coding kernel 1.0). When I first started hearing of Linux (Debian was my first distribution... and it was not gentle) - by all that is holy and good, it works like Solaris did! I have a C compiler! (The same C compiler I used in college, in fact) It's right there! It's bundled with the distribution! And look - there's vi! Ah - I was home again, at long last.

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Sobrique ( 543255 )

          Solaris - that is, Unix - just "clicked" with me. Everything was designed to work with everything else in a holistic, hard to characterize way. No longer was I working around deficiencies in the design of the system - the system was working for me.

          Those who say Unix is not user friendly are wrong. Unix is really _very_ user friendly, it's just a bit more picky about who it makes friends with.

          (I also am a Solaris aficionado, to the point where I'd consider taking a pay cut to work in a Solaris environme

          • by jedidiah ( 1196 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:35PM (#18290090) Homepage
            Linux is power user friendly.

            It doesn't get in the way of the power user.

            Things are modular and transparent. If you have problems they
            are easy to see and easy to get information about. There's also
            usually some other way to (successfully) approach what you're
            doing. You have a meaningful choice of tools.
            • by TopherC ( 412335 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @07:42PM (#18295650)
              Yet again I found myself in a situation where I was able to finish off a little side-project or curiosity in a short amount of time purely because of the fantastic availability of open-source software. Then I read this article that tries to be very objective about the "open-source mythos" but completely misses what is for me the main point. Open-source software, including Linux, is empowering in ways that continue to boggle!

              I found myself resurrecting a 15-year-old project simulating a double-pendulum and exploring chaotic motion. I did this project as a student, and wanted to restore aspects of this now that I'm a professor. But most of my original code was lost (I had some source code and a binary that worked in DOS) and I didn't have much free time to rewrite it from scratch. But with the virtue of open-source libraries like Glut and the GSL, I was able to make the simulation live again! And beyond that, by using public documentation on a FITS image standard and some astronomical image analysis software (SAOImage DS9), I was able to go even beyond the original project with a minimum of programming fuss and create some beautiful fractal images that delineate between chaotic and periodic motion of the double-pendulum system. It's a great teaching tool now.

              This was probably the 100th time open source tools and libraries have benefited my work in ways that could not be replaced by anything else. And that's not even counting high-level languages and their open-source interpreters like Tcl, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc.

              If you overlook the synergies in open source software, you miss the point of it completely.
      • > Fedora recently started bundling Tomcat with their distros as an
        > installable option...Anyone who has ever installed Tomcat knows how valuable that is.

        You sick mother f***er! Why would you want that Scientology Elron crap installed on your computer?!?!? >:(

        Oh wait. I thought you said Tomkat. n/m.

    • by Surye ( 580125 ) <[moc.liamg] [ta] [08eyrus]> on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:30AM (#18288980) Homepage
      While I don't necessarily agree with him, he is clearly confusing the words "advocacy" with "zealotry".
    • by replicant108 ( 690832 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:33AM (#18289032) Journal
      IT shouldn't be an advocate of any product

      Of course not.

      We should leave that job to hired shills like Rob "Ferrari Laptop" Enderle:

      "One impressive piece of execution is that when you fire the machine up it plays a WAV file of a Ferrari race car revving its engine. That alone is worth the relatively low $1,899 price of admission. Even when I'm in a meeting, I don't turn the sound off because of the unbridled envy that seems to show up in the eyes of my, granted mostly male, co-attendees. So far no one has complained."

      Click here for more shameless whoring... [eweek.com]
      • when you fire the machine up it plays a WAV file of a Ferrari race car revving its engine. That alone is worth the relatively low $1,899 price of admission. Even when I'm in a meeting, I don't turn the sound off

        Wouldn't it be a shame if there was someone in that meeting who's very highly strung - you know, the kind that jumps at any sudden noise? And it would be a real pity if that person happened to be standing near it holding a large cup of $beverage when it went "VROOOM".

    • by twitter ( 104583 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:40AM (#18289104) Homepage Journal

      Yes, this is wacky:

      The reason Linux has been abstracted into a concept is so it doesn't have to compete on merit. It can be anything, in concept, it needs to be to win a deal.

      He then goes on to treat Linux as a concept for the rest of the article, which is so stupid it's not worth reading.

      Linux is a kernel. Free Software is a concept. Both can be talked about intelligently. Linux can be compared to other kernels. Free software can be compared to other development models. The rest of his "arguments" are just as big a waste of time.

      As someone else pointed out, this is the guy the NYT quit quoting. Now I know why.

    • by kripkenstein ( 913150 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:54AM (#18289342) Homepage
      ...and some of this is just plain wrong. For example, he writes

      Let's take indemnification; this should be a topic every company should suddenly be looking very closely at. Microsoft just got nailed with a whopping $1.53 Billion, that's with a "B", judgment for the use of a common music standard. They did this because they indemnified Dell and Gateway, the companies initially targeted. If they had used Linux instead of Windows, it would be Dell and Gateway hit with some fraction of this judgment (and even a fraction of $1.52B is a big number). So where is the coverage? Don't you think it should be a hot topic right now, so where is the chatter?
      (emphasis mine)

      This is just misleading. Surely Enderle knows the truth, which is that the major vendors do provide indemnification, just like Microsoft? Red Hat do [redhat.com], as do Novell [novell.com]; heck, even Oracle [PDF warning] [oracle.com].

      "Don't you think it should be a hot topic right now, so where is the chatter?" writes Enderle. Yes, this was a hot topic - many months ago. As a result of that chatter, the major vendors started to provide or emphasized that they already provide indemnification. Is Enderle really qualified to write about Linux if he doesn't know that? (I am giving him the benefit of the doubt, that he isn't intentionally misleading readers)
  • blog == article? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by tomstdenis ( 446163 ) <tomstdenis@gm a i l.com> on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:14AM (#18288784) Homepage
    Since when do blog postings automatically mean they're news?

    Given that I can't read the article (must be running on a windows server hehehehe) I'll just chime in that most of the time when someone is talking smack about OSS (not just Linux) it irks me because it's ignorant shite that gets repeated enough until it's true. Like "Linux is hard to install" or "GCC doesn't optimize well" or "Word is more professional" or ...

    Mostly I'd be happy if people who don't embrace OSS [even enough to learn about it] would just shut their gobs so others could make up their minds for themselves.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:14AM (#18288788)
    I find it interesting that a commentator so thoroughly discredited as Rob Enderle would get a hit on Slashdot.

    The NY Times has a policy of not using his quotes in stories.

    Maybe someone should take away the admin privileges of the "editor" who put up this article

    • by Anonymous Coward on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:17AM (#18288822)
      Maybe someone should take away the admin privileges of the "editor" who put up this article

      Absolutely! Who is the bozo who posted this, anyways? This CmdrTaco guy should leave Slashdot to the guys who actually run the show - Zonk and kdawson.
    • by aralin ( 107264 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:11PM (#18289654)
      Rob Enderle is a known troll from the SCO fame, who got bunch of hits by taking the pro-SCO stance. He is generally writing anti-linux articles whenever he can on any subject that comes along. All he cares about is the number of hits his articles generate and posting on slashdot certainly helps that. He is also "THE" reason, why I stopped to read Forbes.com, since they publish his drivel.
  • by Elranzer ( 851411 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:18AM (#18288838) Homepage
    I'm not sure if these are the five things, since the site is Slashdotted, but here's five more I've noticed you cannot discuss about Linux: 1. The negative effects of having multiple distros 2. The GIMP's interface 3. 3rd-Party games (though these days, there ARE a fair amount of good FOSS games) 4. BSD good, Gentoo for ricers 5. Fight Club
    • by 0123456 ( 636235 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:22AM (#18288892)
      "The negative effects of having multiple distros"

      How many versions of Windows are there now? I have no freaking clue which of the six or so versions of Vista I'm supposed to buy even if I wanted to, then there's XP32, XP64, Pro versions, Home versions, cut-down foreign versions, Windows 2003 or whatever it is.
      • by Sciros ( 986030 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:42AM (#18289130) Journal
        All versions of Vista install the same way. Some just have more extra features than others. The same company supports all of them, in the same manner. As for previous versions of Windows, well, that's all moot since they're kinda *the previous versions!* This is like saying "omg there are multiple types of Xterras to buy I have no freaking clue whether I'm supposed to get the off-road or SE or a used 2004 one or whatever. And then there's all the exterior colors to choose from which one is the right one for me!?" :-P
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Blakey Rat ( 99501 )
        Oh yeah, one of the reasons you can't talk about them is because every Linux zealot is so single-mindedly focused on Microsoft all the time that they refuse to agree that Linux has a problem unless Microsoft also has the same problem.

        For instance,
        User: "Printer setup in Linux is hard."
        Zealot: "Oh yeah!? Well printer setup in Windows is even harder!"

        See how the Linux Zealot argument has absolutely nothing to do with the original complaint?

        It's clear where Linux developers have set their quality standard: rig
  • fud (Score:5, Insightful)

    by stoolpigeon ( 454276 ) * <bittercode@gmail> on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:20AM (#18288870) Homepage Journal
    The term fud gets thrown around a lot. It seems if anyone says something critical about something else, the supporters of the attacked thing, cry fud. So this piece should be saved so that it can be pointed to as a great example of just what fud is. Fear Uncertainty Doubt. I mean he wastes no time, talking about a linux 'cover up' and how such cover ups can lead to disaster, bringing in global warming and the war in Iraq. That's some serious Fear.
    Then his first 'point', "Is Linux a Myth?". This pretty much nails uncertainty and he is just getting started. The best part is he will lay down why he thinks it is wrong to 'abstract' linux, while his entire article rests purely on doing that, because it would be too hard to be more specific.
    The doubt is spread throughout - "Is Linux Secure?", "Is Linux is(sic) 'Open'?" And supports this by saying he gets email that isn't nice and that means one can't honestly discuss Linux. (This is shortly after he criticized the open source community for in-fighting - these kind of contradicitions are so common in this piece, the mind boggles.)
    I love the bugaboo about how a lot of linux contributors don't use their real names and could actually be spies. He compares it to Soviet Russia which dovetails nicely with his 'commune' question. Oh noes! Linux is the red menace!! (He's smart enough not to be too direct with this but it is rather plain to see).
    Reading the comments that follow the article is just as much fun. Someone says when they can plug in a usb stick and it is autodetected, or intall a program by double clicking on it, they will consider linux. Apparently it's been a few years since he actually has seen a gnome or kde desktop. I do those things regularly and I'm running a couple versions behind on my favorite desktop distro.
    This is fud, pure and simple.
  • 3 steps (Score:5, Funny)

    by mastershake_phd ( 1050150 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:23AM (#18288896) Homepage
    1: Question authors background
    2: ???
    3: Karma!
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Vengeance ( 46019 )
      Question author's background? Not at all. There's no question whatsoever regarding this author's background, nor his agenda.
  • Can't RTFA (Score:5, Funny)

    by otacon ( 445694 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:23AM (#18288898)
    In an ironic twist... www.itbusinessedge.com runs Windows Server 2003 Microsoft-IIS/6.0 and NetCraft confirms it and the fact I can't open it at all reaffirms it.
  • My anecdote (Score:5, Interesting)

    by i_should_be_working ( 720372 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:29AM (#18288974)
    I'm not a coder, I'm a scientist. Sometimes I have to code. Getting the tools to do so is many times easier (faster, cheaper, less confusion, etc.) for me on Linux than on Windows. A colleague recently suggested I try quantlib [sourceforge.net]. He also mentioned that they require Boost [boost.org] which can be a real pain in the ass to get compiled and installed on an XP machine. I went home and installed both of these libraries in 10s of seconds with Synaptic.

    So for me, Linux is very "pro-developer".
  • Only Five? (Score:4, Funny)

    by rueger ( 210566 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:31AM (#18288992) Homepage
    C'mon, Linux is like the Scientology [scientology.org] of tech. The list of things that you aren't allowed to discuss is nearly endless.
  • Mod me down (Score:3, Funny)

    by UbuntuDupe ( 970646 ) * on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:31AM (#18288996) Journal
    Since we can't yet mod down stories, and I know a lot of you are aching to direct your mod points at someone, I thought as a courtesy, I'd post here so you could use me as a close enough proxy to modding down the story. Given as I've often criticized Linux.

    You're welcome.
  • Just Try (Score:3, Insightful)

    by WED Fan ( 911325 ) <<ten.liamhsart> <ta> <egihaka>> on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:31AM (#18289008) Homepage Journal

    Just try to discuss Linux from and ease of use, UI, user perspective and you will get a lot of Linux geeks telling you to tough it out, or, my fave "My grandmother uses linux and doesn't complain." (Your grandmother probably isn't installing apps and trying to make it more than a web browsing/email appliance.)

    Unexpected, wild assed UI's are a problem in Linux and OSS in general.

    Convoluted instructions, HowTo, etc. telling the user to dig into the guts of a conf and set oddly named, poorly documented settings.

    Did I mention geek developed UI's?

    Odd assed error messages that don't tell you why something failed to run or install, but it dumps everything a geek would want to know about it, onto the screen.

    UI's that were developed by some pseudo-genius who THINKS he has a better grasp of the user experience.

    No, you are not allowed to talk about these things, because you will be tagged as a heretic in the religiOS wars.

    Did I mention UI's?

    • by bjourne ( 1034822 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:56AM (#18289392) Homepage Journal
      Sure, "discuss" all you want. But you wont be discussing with me and you wont get any response until you actually file bug reports and try to come up with solutions to the problems you find. That is what I consider to be constructive work and not just general hand-waiving. Not long ago there was an article called 30 days with Ubuntu [hardocp.com] posted on Slashdot. It detailed problems the author found in Ubuntu Linux. That is useful information and inspired me to submit a few patches to fix the authors problem. Judging by the number of bug reports submitted each day to popular free software projects, it seems others are too capabable of constructively discuss and help Linux improve.

      Yours and this articles authors complaining, however, is dead weight. There is nothing I can do about a complaint such as "geek developed UI's." The reason those UI's look "geek developed" is because not enough people have taken the time to constructively critisize them. As a developer, there is nothing I'd like to hear more than constructive feedback on my UI's. But as commens such as that it is "wild assed" does not help.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by xtracto ( 837672 )
      I think that is a really BIG problem with the people discussing Linux. What? the fact that people discuss things like UI, ease of use, installation, etc of Linux, and they compare it to any other operating system.

      If we were to make the comparison exact, then the Linux UI sucks for the end user (wait! dont mod me down yet!), because an end user would not know what to do with skb_queue_empty , kfree_skb, skb_shared, skb_unshare or any of the other functions provided by the Linux interface. Do you see where
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by jedidiah ( 1196 )
        > I think that is a really BIG problem with the people discussing Linux.
        > What? the fact that people discuss things like UI, ease of use, installation,
        > etc of Linux, and they compare it to any other operating system.
        >If we were to make the comparison exact, then the Linux UI sucks for the end user
        >(wait! dont mod me down yet!), because an end user would not know what to do with
        >skb_queue_empty , kfree_skb, skb_shared, skb_unshare or any of the other functions
        >provided by the Linux
  • good lord (Score:5, Informative)

    by Blob Pet ( 86206 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:37AM (#18289070) Homepage
    Nothing spells flamebait like an entire article from Rob Enderle.
  • I'm sorry, my logic checker immediately flagged this as a hopeless oxymoron, much like Enderele, sans the oxy.

    Remember, Enderle is the guy who's predicted the demise of the Macintosh more than anyone else. [macobserver.com] If there's a topic involving the Mac, Windows, or Linux, there's no question he'll be on the wrong side of it. It's amazing to see a pundit come in at a full 1750 MiliDvorak's on the Idiot Tech Pundit Scale.

    But don't take my word for, as Google confirms the objective truth:
    Rob Enderle insightful: 9,270 hits, Rob Enderle idiot: 32.200 hits [googlefight.com]

    Anytime I read the phrase "Rob Enderle says," I know I can stop reading right there.

    • Anytime I read the phrase "Rob Enderle says," I know I can stop reading right there.

      He is very insightful. You just read his article and do the exact opposite of what he says. The guy must have written a thousand articles and the odds are only 1/2^1000 that he could have gotten every single one of them wrong accidentally, so he is clearly a genius who only pretends to be dumb.

  • by russotto ( 537200 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:43AM (#18289134) Journal
    An "insightful Rob Enderle" -- a contradiction in 3 words.

    What next, a "brilliant John Dvorak"... oh, wait, that was last week.
  • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:46AM (#18289186) Homepage

    Enderle doesn't deserve the attention he gets. He's a failed consultant who took SCO's side and is bitter about his self-inflicted hardship at IBM.

    Anyone who listens to his IT advice deserves what they get.

  • ORLY? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Trelane ( 16124 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:52AM (#18289292) Journal

    In my experience, The List is as follows:

    1. Linux is easy to use
    2. Linux could really take over the desktop
    3. Linux has a non-trivial marketshare, possibly comparable to MacOS (if not greater than it)
    4. The productivity software on Linux is quite adequate for most users
    5. No, X doesn't really need to go crawl off and die.

    Mentions of any one of these points are sure to cause any non-Linux-loving person to fly into fits of rage and/or wax eloquent on why you are so full of it.

  • great idea! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by mastershake_phd ( 1050150 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @11:55AM (#18289358) Homepage
    This guy is full of insight. From the article:

    though selling ads for you HR internal website would be a creative way to get more income for your department

    Maybe they could sell ad space in the office too. Desks, cubicle walls, bathroom stalls. Businesses owners are sitting on top of a huge captive audience. Ka-ching.
  • Summary (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Experiment 626 ( 698257 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:06PM (#18289554)

    1. Is Linux a Myth?
    There is no "Linux", talk about Red Hat or SuSE or whatever, not Linux in general.

    2. Is Linux Secure?
    Despite what I just said, talking about general Linux is convenient, so I'll now do it myself. Then go into a rant about "spies" with an off-topic swipe at PJ of Groklaw, while not saying anything at all about security in the OS sense.

    3. Do Communes Work?
    Community efforts never work. Just look at the debate over the GPL3, which by the way is "anti-business" and a threat to intellectual property everywhere.

    4. Is Linux Pro-Developer, or Pro-You?
    I'm not smart enough to understand open source business models, so I'll imply you can't make money giving away software, then throw out some FUD that Linux equals outsourcing. But I'll close the section by acknowledging that Google is making money using Linux, to pretend to lend some balance to my analysis.

    5. Is Linux "Open"?
    If you say Linux isn't ready for the desktop, you will be fired, receive death threats, and be sexually harassed.

    Wow, what a brilliant article. We should stick this guy in a room with Katz and Dvorak and see who can come up with the most idiotic BS.

  • by Maximum Prophet ( 716608 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:14PM (#18289704)
    Well, let's compare them to business. When a business, like, say, Enron, fails, people's lives are ruined. When the captains of industry send in the goons to break up the unions, people are even killed. But when the Linux "commune" has a problem...

    and the two sides have, as they seem more than willing to do, degraded into name-calling.
    people's feelings are hurt. Sounds like a complete system failure to me. Bring back old fashion capitalism!

    This and other comments lead me to believe that he "Just doesn't get it" (tm). He says that GPL 3 is could be real bad, keep your eyes open. What he doesn't mention, is that there's a ton of stuff under GPL 2 that you will still be able to use, you'll still be able to release under GPL 2, and tell the GPL 3 people to pound sand. What you won't be able to do is take new nifty stuff that someone put under GPL 3 and not abide by their terms. Well, guess what, you can't take Microsoft's, or Apple's or Adobe's software and not abide by the most basic of their terms which is "give us lots of money for which you don't get many rights."
  • by frogstar_robot ( 926792 ) <frogstar_robot@yahoo.com> on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:16PM (#18289750)
    This man is both a professional troll and shill. His 2004 SCO Forum keynote speech is infamous:

    http://ipw.scofacts.org/ipw-2004-11-4-193122-475.h tml [scofacts.org]

    He thrives on attention and absolutely delights in "proving" Linux users are raving fanatics, though that speech shows just who the raving fanatic is. Please don't give this guy any more web stats or attention.
  • by mergy ( 42601 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:26PM (#18289918) Homepage
    The Five Things You Aren't Allowed to Discuss About Rob Enderle

    One: Is Rob Enderle a Myth?

    Two: Is Rob Enderle Secure?

    Three: Does Rob Enderle Work?

    Four: Is Rob Enderle Pro-Developer, or Pro-You?

    Five: Is Rob Enderle is Open?

  • Q.E.D. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Corson ( 746347 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @12:29PM (#18289960)
    Presumably due to a slashdot effect, I have been unable to read that posting. But the author was obviously wrong about one thing: it is possible to discuss these things about Linux. Sadly enough, the discussion here is mostly about why "he is wrong", with a few notable exceptions. If everything was so great about Linux then people wouldn't spend money on Windows and MacOS X. The fact is, there are pros and cons are there is personal choice. And there are evangelists.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      If everything was so great about Linux then people wouldn't spend money on Windows and MacOS X. The fact is, there are pros and cons are there is personal choice.

      I have never seen anyone argue that Linux or Windows or OS X was perfect or that they did not all have pros and cons. The thing is, the article in question did not bring up really any valid points about the cons of Linux, but instead resorted to attacks on random things, many of which are the same in both Windows and Linux. I didn't see much, if anything, in the way of intelligent, informed criticism or ways Linux could improve. I have a hard time believing the article's author does not know better than a

  • by pcause ( 209643 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @01:02PM (#18290502)
    Much of the reaction here helps make Enderle's point. While the quality of his article is mixed, he does make some valid points. For example, Linix security isn't any better than Windows if you run as super user (the way users run in XP) and then install some random executable. However, most Linux users are more savy than Windows users and avoid doing that. GPL 3 is *most certainly* anti-business and most of the money in Linux is in services.

    What is most spot on is that the Linux community is not a place where open discussion is valued and those who refuse to adopt the purist view are attacked as fiercely as the Revolutionary Guard in Iran would attack a woman walking around in a halter top. Linux is just a technology and it has flaws like any other technology. Linux as a business has its flaws just like Microsoft or Gooogle (opps, Google does no evil, right??). GPL is a socialist economic model and much more onerous and way less free than Apache licenses.

    let's have discussion. Let's have CIVIL debate. I understand that Linux devotees treat any comments that don't follow the orthodox view as heresy, but if you believe in "free and open", shouldn't it include the discussion and debate.
  • Self prophesying (Score:5, Interesting)

    by xtieburn ( 906792 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @01:56PM (#18291258)
    First section, fairly accurate really. Linux is always talked about as one great thing, it isnt. Some are god awful, some are dedicated to a single task, some are home user friendly, others are command line. Just as he says this pretty much makes Linux perfect at everything, even though that is often far far from the truth because there is no single Linux platform that will accomplish all of the jobs a particular person requires.

    He is right the comparisons are often deeply flawed because they do not compare Ubuntu to Windows or Red Hat to OSX they compare Linux or sometimes even just *nix to the competition. You might as well compare the traits of one person to the best selection of traits from a thousand other people. That one person is going to feel pretty awful after that.

    This isnt just a bash on Linux because he is also right that there are distributions that can stand up to some real comparisons, its just more often than not they never get the chance.

    Second section. Starts off well his previous point stands and its all too true that if someone doesnt know what they are doing you will always be running things insecurely regardless of which O/S your using. He does go a little astray here but there is still an important point, in an open community where people are expected to get help from the army of other users (This is often touted as a benefit of using Linux, and usually thats very true.) maintaining decent security is going to become a mine field. Its a little paranoid, its probably not a common occurence but there is a risk. Though I think the whole thing can be summed up in saying that net security is only as good as those securing it.

    Third section. Again pretty much spot on, the community behind Linux has produced some awesome stuff but it is impossible to ignore the infighting that is going on nearly constantly. The GPL3 being an excellent example of this. He quite clearly isnt saying that the community is wrong and it should be disbanded his last statements want the users of Linux to actually get more involved. Id expect people to be supporting this much. There are some distinctly anti community events going on and that is what this section is pointing too.

    Fourth section. The money Linux makes is undoubtedly fairly small. Ive seen a lot of people argue about how open source can make money, thats probably true but its rare. Very rare. Red Hat is one of the largest open source companies ever yet you scale it up, or scale MS down and youll see a huge difference in profits. There is simply no way you can take such a slash in profits without that having a knock on effect to the employees.

    Im no financial expert and I dont have enough figures but a lot of even this section appears to make sense.

    Fifth section, and here is the prophesy. I know this guy has a sketchy past with these articles, I know that there are flaws even here, but by in large he makes some really good points. You would not know this from the endless insults and put downs streaming out of this thread. Ive no doubt that everything he has said about those who are even more extreme is true as well. Linux has become like some kind of religion to some people and it virges on being genuinly frightening at times.

    Hes proven it right here. There must be about a half dozen comments on this thread that have actually attempted to discuss his points, or citisize them properly. Most are more content to just slag him off, or quote obscure parts and strawman him. No one, no matter what there opinion, deserves some of the harrasment these people have to endure.

    Ill probably have annoyed some people just posting this, and in case they have been annoyed then try take a moment and remember. Its just an operating system, this is just an opinion, relax.
  • by Bright Apollo ( 988736 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @03:02PM (#18292264) Journal
    It's clear Enderle provokes a strong reaction from the rabble (I'm one of the rabble, back up there), but the blog entry is a good one, worthy of discussion, even as framed.

    If Linux is to be taken seriously and adopted within large corporations, it does need to address those five points specifically. You can't convince upper management of the merits of your argument by using your Crazy Fist Number Eleven Slashdot Flame technique, so address those concerns rationally and in terms of business concerns, or you'll lose.

    Widespread adoption among consumers should be ruled out categoricallly, until you can download a distro in one shot, and have it find your wireless adapter, Bluetooth adapter, and all your laptop goodies, without once have to su-su-sudo a single command line. For any laptop coming out of Dell or Toshiba, sold at Circuit City or Best Buy, and so forth. And there ain't a single distro that can do it today.


  • Impressive writing (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Fujisawa Sensei ( 207127 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @03:20PM (#18292530) Journal

    I'm not sure when the last time I've read so much only to realize the guy said absolutely nothing meaningful.

    Just to answer one his taboo topics, does community work?

    Well, the community was able to produce an operating system, that while may have not be most user friendly system, has features that took MS years add; like a built in firewall.

    You can question it all you want, but the OS on my system was produced by the community and it works. Thats all the proof I need.

  • by Eric Damron ( 553630 ) on Friday March 09, 2007 @04:50PM (#18293792)
    "The reason Linux has been abstracted into a concept is so it doesn't have to compete on merit."

    Bullshit. I does fine on merit. Maybe people just say "Linux" instead of "Ubuntu 6.10" or "Mandrake 10.1" is because the former is the way people talk. You know just like they say "Windows" instead of the exact version.

    Also most distros have so much common code (Sort of the whole point of open source) that when talking about a feature it just makes more sense to say "Linux" then to rattle off a definitive list.

    Besides, when people talk about Linux it covers a lot of things. Just like when people talk about .Net. There's the kernel and the windowing environment, and all the other programs that are put together to make a useable operating system. Again that's just the nature of open source.

    This guy is nothing more than an anti-Linux, anti open source troll. Here are some of his "Words of Wisdom":

    " The reason Linux has been abstracted into a concept is so it doesn't have to compete on merit."

    " Linux is surrounded by people who generally don't even use real names and often "exaggerate" what they do for a living."

    " PJ, the woman who allegedly heads up this legal resource, is currently ducking service from SCO and lord knows what she is covering up."

    On the last example I must comment. SCO indeed wants to put PJ in the spot light. Not for any reason other than to harass her. Through her efforts she has shined a light on SCO's legal scam.

    PJ has stated that she is extremely shy. Most people don't know what it is like to be so shy that you would do almost anything rather than be put on center stage. I know what it's like. For people like us written communication is no big deal but face to face and sometimes even phone contact causes unbelievable anxiety.

    It's pretty shitty for this guy to imply that PJ has anything to hide.

    He rambles on and on... What a jerk.

FORTRAN is the language of Powerful Computers. -- Steven Feiner