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Mandriva Businesses Portables Hardware

Dell Releases First Consumer Product with Mandriva 312

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the maybe-they-do-have-a-soul dept.
WindozeSux writes "Dell Laptops(Latitude 110L) are now shipping with Mandriva Linux pre-installed. Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers. From the article:"This product shows the world that Mandriva is today ready for the consumer market. We've been developing products for the corporate and enthusiast markets for years. Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home", said François Bancilhon, Mandriva CEO"
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Dell Releases First Consumer Product with Mandriva More

Dell Releases First Consumer Product with Mandriva

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  • Tomorow's News: (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:09PM (#13586787)
    First consumer angrily sends back 'discount' Dell computer for not having Windows.

    • Are they hidden (Score:2, Insightful)

      by LIQID ( 841500 )
      Does anyone have a link to a page that actually displays this product. I don't know but ususally they announce things like this then hide them like its a treasure hunt. It took me a while to find the servers with linux pre-installed.

  • Step 2: (Score:5, Funny)

    by MagicTom ( 895611 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:12PM (#13586794)
    Fly a plane over Sun with the banner "YEAH, WELL WE HAVE MANDRIVA!"
  • I am!

        But we'll see how long it lasts.

  • I Wish (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:12PM (#13586798)
    "...it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home"

    Somebody want to tell my parents this and, while you're at it, tell them I'm not available on loan.

    • Re:I Wish (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Can't you just yell upstairs?

  • This is a Good Thing (Score:5, Interesting)

    by poofyhairguy82 ( 635386 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:13PM (#13586807) Journal
    Desktop Linux needs support from the big computer makers more than anything to succeed. Its interesting that Dell is pushing Mandriva with its laptops and HP recently began doing the same thing with its laptops and Ubuntu [linuxtoday.com]. I know from experiance that Linux on laptops can be tough, but mostly thats because the hardware won't work. If I can buy an Dell or an HP laptop with some distro of Linux on it that works with wireless and suspend hardware that works with Linux, then it really doesn't matter which one is on it when its shipped to me. I can put whatever I choose....avoiding the biggest problems with laptops and Linux!

    I say bring them on Dell, HP. You might have found a way to make me (and many other geeks) customers again.

    • Re:This is a Good Thing (Score:5, Interesting)

      by MichaelSmith ( 789609 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:26PM (#13586868) Homepage Journal
      I know from experiance that Linux on laptops can be tough

      I previously ran Mandrake 10 on my HP nx9010 laptop. Hardware support was not the best. Power and sound did not work correctly.

      I recently installed Ubuntu and hardware support is now much better. This makes me wonder if HP have been directly helping the debian/ubuntu people with ther drivers.

    • If I can buy an Dell or an HP laptop with some distro of Linux on it that works with wireless and suspend hardware that works with Linux, then it really doesn't matter which one is on it when its shipped to me.

      I use Fedora Core 4 very successfully on a rebranded Mitac 8011 notebook. This includes wireless (Intel Pro 2200) and I eventually got suspend to work. The latter seems to be a real issue under Linux, though, and it's a kludge getting it to work properly (i.e., having to "experiment" to find the co

      • Re:This is a Good Thing (Score:3, Informative)

        by alienw ( 585907 )
        I'm sure that if Microsoft's behavior was well-documented, the kernel would work the same way it did. The problem is, there are no good specifications on what windows does. The bios manufacturers don't obey the specs, they just tweak their bios until it works with Windows.

    • Dude, You're Getting Linux (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:47PM (#13586976) Homepage Journal
      Normal people are always asking their geek friends and relatives which computer to buy. Geeks never want to tell them to get Linux, even if it will be better and easier, because even that lower "Total Cost of Ownership" will then partly be paid by the geek who recommended it. Unless they recommend Dell, HP or some other vendor with a helpline, which will field (at least much first-level) support requests. Of course, the normals will buy a Dell or HP anyway, with Windows, no matter what the geek recommends, and then ask the geek for Windows support. Which the geek will be even less interested in giving.

      Now that we can recommend Dell or HP with Linux, we'll do it much more often. When they get the Windows machine and ask us for support, we'll be able to say "send it back and get the right one this time". That kind of "word of mouth" is the best advertising Dell and HP could ask for. Way more valuable than a primetime season of "Dudes".
    • From personal experience, I can say that Linux works very well on Apple iBooks (everything supported, except if you have the AirPort card with the cursed Broadcom chipset) and IBM (now Lenovo) Thinkpads (everything supported, including wireless). These are also really high quality hardware, and, depending on what features you're looking for, inexpensive. E.g. an iBook costs under $ 1000 and provides 5 to 6 hours of battery life - try finding a cheaper machine that does that.

      Also, laptops with Linspire are b

    • Maybe desktop Linux will just always be niche (Score:5, Insightful)

      by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @06:27PM (#13587145) Homepage
      I don't mean this to troll, but why does Linux have to dethrone desktop Windows to be considered successful as an operating system? Why can't it just live happily as a rock-solid server OS with a desktop component that some advanced users use?

      • Re:Maybe desktop Linux will just always be niche (Score:4, Insightful)

        by poofyhairguy82 ( 635386 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @07:00PM (#13587267) Journal
        I don't mean this to troll, but why does Linux have to dethrone desktop Windows to be considered successful as an operating system?

        I never said that. I said "Desktop Linux" needs such support. Getting Dell on the side of Desktop Linux is needed if it is ever to be as popular as "Server Linux" and "Embeded Linux." I don't really care about crushing MS, I just want my desktop OS to work with more pieces of hardware and I want my family to use Linux even though they won't buy from anyone but Dell.

        Why can't it just live happily as a rock-solid server OS with a desktop component that some advanced users use?

        Because:

        1. That is boring.

        2. I want more linux drivers for things like wireless devices, that won't come till the marketshare does.

        3. Why can't Linux be good at both. Why hold Linux back at all?

      • right now the 'goal' of desktop linux is to Keep it simple. just have a nice, easy secure desktop does what your average user needs. easy to connect to the internet, easy to read mail on, etc.. windows is trying to 'draw' users in with it's glitz, while also supporting nearly every piece of hardware on the planet (no matter how crappy the support for the hardware is)

        Linux desktop projects aren't meant to be 'windows killers' per say, but rather a nice sane easy to use desktop. something you can set gran

      • Re:Maybe desktop Linux will just always be niche (Score:4, Insightful)

        by sean23007 ( 143364 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @11:24PM (#13588025) Homepage Journal
        Because the way Microsoft is fighting the battle, they're trying to lock you out of being able to install Linux at all on new hardware. They're trying to prevent you from being able to watch your legally purchased media. If desktop Linux doesn't make a push into the mainstream, the advanced users might not even be able to use it any more. That's why it's vitally important.

        We don't need to crush Microsoft, we just need Linux to become enough of a player that companies are forced to support it.

  • Available in USA or just France? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by baomike ( 143457 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:14PM (#13586816)
    Can the machines be purchased in the USA?

  • huh? (Score:4, Informative)

    by naelurec ( 552384 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:14PM (#13586818) Homepage
    The Dell Latitude line is geared toward business users. The Inspiron line is for home users. According to Dell's Linux page [dell.com]:

    Dell does not officially support running Linux on Dell laptops."

    So where can I order one of these things?

  • Sadly... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Dankling ( 596769 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:15PM (#13586822) Homepage Journal
    Sadly I don't think the availability of Linux systems that is holding the average consumer or business person from buying one. If the IT guy of a company wants the employees to have Linux, they get Linux - no matter how easy or hard it is made.

    then the average consumer... of course "line-ux?"

    • I think it's the inability of the admin staff to support Linux on corporate desktops/laptops. So much of the training and infrastructure is dedicated to Windows, it just doesn't cost to switch.

      Also, it's not a cost issue either. Most corps will not `download and install' Linux. They'd get no support that way. But -buying- Linux (from RedHat, etc.) is generally more expensive than similar Windows offerings.

      Oh, and I use Linux both at home and at wr0k.

  • or... (Score:3, Funny)

    by xao gypsie ( 641755 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:16PM (#13586829)
    as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home.
    Or you do have one at home, but he gets grumpy if you ask him questions without rtfm.

  • proper market segment (Score:4, Interesting)

    by magarity ( 164372 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:17PM (#13586833)
    you don't have a system admin or professional technician
     
    This, and the article says it's being sold direct to students. I went back to school for another degree last year and the specs for the required notebook said Windows XP Pro or 2000 ONLY. The networking people won't let you connect to the school LAN with anything else. I suspect other schools have similar policies. Linux preinstalled systems should be the high end models for hard core technical users, not the nearly bare bones Celeron student models, IMNSHO.
    • MIT is heavy on the Linux usage, I hear. And here at Cornell, they've got no problems with non-Windows OSes like Linux or Mac. We even have a lab full of Linux computers.

      I've got two of my own Linux machines on the network right now. In fact, one of them IS running Linux on a Celeron, the other on a Sempron.

      I'm sure there are plenty of schools who are Linux- as well as Mac-friendly.
    • What's wrong with Celerons?

      In case you haven't noticed, the "hard core technical users" are usually the ones with a room full of scavenged parts, running e-mail servers from dual-proc P2 machines and file servers on sidewalk special sparc stations. I don't know a single "hard core technical user" that would bemoan a Celeron, though they're currenly more likely to own an AMD, or some tiny half-sized notebook from Japan running a transmeta.

      Unless they're requiring some form of system-side authentication appl
    • Windows XP Pro or 2000 ONLY

      There it is again: Linux needs a cloak mode. It already has a Windows emulator. Now to go with it, a set of patches to drop down a binary "Windows disguise" to the outside world so it can tell the buttinsky server, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm Windows, now show me the page!"

      Highly called for in these days of OS discrimination. And it'd be just like smart-aleck Linux developers to pull that off!

  • So we know how it all works then .... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Alain Williams ( 2972 ) <addw@phcomp.co.uk> on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:19PM (#13586843) Homepage
    One of the big pains with a laptop is getting everything to work, ie include power management& stuff. Dell would have made sure that this all works, so pretty soon $YourFavouriteDistro will support everything on these Dell machines.

    Whatever you think of Dell, this is good for Linux.

    • Interestingly enough, FreeBSD 6.0 runs perfectly fine on my Dell Inspirion (3800, not a very recent machine, true) including power management, suspend, wireless (with wpa etc), I'd expect a modern Linux to not have much trouble with that either.
    • Right,

      It's very hard to get full ACPI support. I bet under Linux, the battery life is still shorter than under Windows.
      • Ummm... if Dell is producing the laptop, they have to provide Windows drivers for that stuff in their Windows laptops. I see no reason why Dell would sell their Linux laptops without sufficient drivers. As a sidenote, I own an Inspiron 6000D that I dual-boot XP/Gentoo. The CPU frequency and fan adjust automatically as expected, although I have yet to get sleep-mode working and hibernating working completely. Those last two are things that I am sure Dell has covered in the laptops mentioned in the article.
    • Maybe Dell have commonly supported parts already, too. I installed Hoary from a printed CD on a Dell laptop, think it was a D600 although I don't have it here. As far as I could tell everything just worked out of the box, including the wireless network at school, printers and other things.

      Admittedly, I didn't test everything on purpose, I just installed, got on the network and started working. What I can say is that since I didn't react to anything not working, most things probably did.

  • Now if they just went AMD... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rf0 ( 159958 ) <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:26PM (#13586872) Homepage
    and did some nice AMD stuff with Linux preloaded on the server line I would be a happy bunny

    Rus

  • Consumer Linux is more difficult

    "... as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home"

    Is this to say that MS-Windows requires no system administration? I think the real difference is that Microsoft (and Dell) both offer customer support services for people who don't have WinXP administration skills, while Mandriva (and Dell) will not offer customer support for Linux.

    Indeed, at-home Linux will be an "enthusiast-only" market until some form of commercial customer support becomes availab

  • How is this news? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by keosak ( 894299 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:29PM (#13586898)
    I don't see, why should it be called "a milestone". In my country (Czech Republic) almost all PC vendors let user choose whick OS he/she wants. Besides Windows and Linux they also provide FreeDOS. I think there is a law forbidding selling computer set without operating system, so this is a way to go for people who want to install they own system and dont't want to pay for Windows. I don't know what is usual in USA but I would expect the same. Can someone explain it to me, please?
    • Can someone explain it to me, please?

      I'm sure others have, but I'll add: you see that funny picture of Bill Gates dressed up as a "Borg" that accompanies most Windows stories? That's from "Star Trek, the Next Generation". It's not a joke. In the US, you can damn near get arrested for admitting you use Linux in public. Kind of like being gay, nothing wrong with it, but fat white rich monotheist guys don't like it, so PERSECUTE!

  • Must be Vista OEM pricing time. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by PAPPP ( 546666 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:30PM (#13586904) Homepage
    Having seen dell in action "considering" AMD in hopes of squeezing more discounts out of Intel, and seeing as Microsoft has a new version of Windows coming along, my guess is that this is just posturing to squeeze better discounts out of Microsoft on Vista OEM pricing.
    It's a nice thought, but probably just a ploy.

  • News.... yeah.. I guess. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by fshalor ( 133678 ) <fshalor&comcast,net> on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:32PM (#13586911) Homepage Journal
    But not that big. Sure, you could get Dell's with dedhat before.

    I may get one actually, since I need a good laptop with linux running on it. I've had a lot of luck buying a winblows machine and then rolling my linux install, but sometimes vendors play too shifty with components.

    Which is why I'd stillbe concerned about this one. The vendor I've had the most issues with *shifty* components lately is dell.

    And I like AMD/s.

  • Comment and Question (Score:4, Interesting)

    by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:40PM (#13586952) Homepage Journal
    ``Addressing the needs of the consumer market is a different challenge, because it is all the more difficult, as you don't have a system admin or professional technician at home''

    With a good Linux distro, there's less of a need to. Less computer expertise is needed to keep the system free of malware, and if it works now, it will still work years down the road (barring hardware failures). Also, desktop distros can and do include lots of drivers for various pieces of hardware, so that you can just plug in your device and start using it. YMMV, but I've had more success with this on Linux than what I see in the Windows world.

    Now for the question: how good is Mandriva Linux these days? My experience with Mandrake wasn't particularly good, and I'd hate to see Linux get more bad rap because Dell chose to ship with an inferior distro. I assume polish won't be a problem, but what about package management? Does dependency resolution work? Do all packages work? Is the collection of available packages large enough? What about the software that comes pre-installed? Does it cover most users' needs, or would most people have to install extra software first thing when they get the machine? To what extent are Linux skills transferable to and from other distros (proprietary configuration tools, heavily customized desktops, etc)?
    • My experience with Mandrake wasn't particularly good, and I'd hate to see Linux get more bad rap because Dell chose to ship with an inferior distro.

      I didn't like it much either, but the package management certainly worked well. It was just a lot of little things which put me off. The real reasons are hard to pin down. I think I just like the techiness of debian or fedora. I don;t think it is really a bad distro. Just different.

      But these factors may make it a more attractive distro for general users. So fo

      • No-one likes what they're not used to...I'm a Gentoo user, and the other day when my friend put Ubuntu on his computer, I found it to be a bitch to use....perhaps apt isn't for me? ;)
    • typing this on Mandriva LE 2005... It's far superior to Red Hat Workstation or FC-anything IMHO. SuSE is supposed to be very good, but in my experience has more of the non-standardisms that you refer to.

      Mandrake's GUI configuration tools are decent enough, though I tend to use the config files myself. They don't commit the Linuxconf sin, they're open source, they work.

      The package management is where things get far superior. I've used urpmi for several years and it's always worked better for me than apt4rpm

    • *cough* (Score:4, Informative)

      by msimm ( 580077 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @10:31PM (#13587875) Homepage
      As a long time Mandrake user *and* a fulltime sys admin I'd say for users-space Mandrake's offering is one of the best. But I'd also suggest that thats no-where near where it needs to be if they are planning Windows/Mac area market penetration.

      Its hardware detection has been some of the best for some time now, driver support, clean interface, all good things. Their configuration utilities knock Yast and FC.X off the butts, but they are a LONG way from providing either complete or reliable management solutions. Their package management solution is RPM based, but it excels well beyond YUM and its probably fair to say its on par with Debian's apt-get system, but you also have rpmdrake which wraps a comfy clear, easy-to-use GUI around it.

      As far as commercial distros its the bee's-knees (although I haven't installed that free Linspire disk yet) and has the added bonus of being one of the few commercial companies going after the user desktop that still shows a commitment to the GPL.

      That said, development hasn't shown any remarkable leaps in usability. Its a Linux distro and for the most part its about as good as any other favorite might be. It requires a hobbiest or enthusiast to use still, unless they've got something big they've been keeping under wraps, but 2005 (aka Mandriva) isn't remarkably better or worse then previous releases and they, along with most every other distro seem to be sticking pretty closely to the status quo, which isn't as innovative as I expect would be required to penetrate that particular consumer space, but I'm a sys admin, what do I know. :)
  • Mandriva says this represents a milestone to make Linux more available to consumers.

    Ummm, I seem to recall that Redhat used to be available pre-loaded on Dell laptops. Lets see how long it lasts this time.

  • Just wondering.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rm69990 ( 885744 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:52PM (#13586991)
    What is this obsession of the Slashdot community towards calling everything a degrading name. Examples: Deadhat Winblows M$ LinSux etc. Can't you people get out of your mom's basement and grow up? Try getting a job in IT and then explaining to your CIO why you shouldn't use deadhat or winblows and see how long it takes for them to laugh in your face. Sorry, just a small gripe of mine.

  • Yes... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SheeEttin ( 899897 ) <sheeettin&gmail,com> on Saturday September 17, 2005 @05:58PM (#13587022) Homepage
    Yes, but does it run Li--Oh, wait...
  • I RTFA, but still have questions...

    Many posters assume that Dell has done some optimization / tuning / development. But the article says bubkis about that. Did Dell do any work so that things are guaranteed to run smoothly? E.g., is the WiFi support 802.11g, or is it just some old out-of-date 802.11b chipset? Does the power management, in particular sleep / standby mode, consistently work even with X11?

    Seriously, if any of you know the answers (and aren't just presupposing one way or the other) let us know!
  • This sounds excellent news. Yes it might be a ploy to give Dell more traction with Microsoft, but there again it might be sincere. It also goes to show that you don't have to be SuSE or Red Hat to score well, either. Mandriva has very firm markets in France and Brazil and in fact could make a very good living if it never went all that far outside them. This too shows that you don't have to take on the world to succeed in Linux, just do what you know as well as you can. By trying to span the world and appeal

  • yeah, but where? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by yagu ( 721525 ) * <yayagu.gmail@com> on Saturday September 17, 2005 @06:21PM (#13587118) Journal

    Okay, I took the bait. Nasty hook marks in my mouth now.

    If they're serious about this, how come when doing a search for linux in their "search all dell" option on their home page, I get no results around this new offering? If they were really proud of this and really intended to sell it it'd be nice if they made a bit more noise about it. This feels like PR.

  • Saw this in my live bookmarks with the "driva" of mandriva cut off. First thought was they were taking a new (and expensive!) approach to tech support. Needless to say I was sorely disappointed.

  • What about US customers (Score:3, Interesting)

    by beforewisdom ( 729725 ) on Saturday September 17, 2005 @06:37PM (#13587183)
    I will be impressed when gnu/linux comes preinstalled on computers in the US.
    • I will be impressed when gnu/linux comes preinstalled on computers in the US.

      Because then you will know what PC company has some balls (since doing that would be the way to loose OEM Windows pricing)?

      • Because I would know that there is a significant market for desktop linux among ordinary users.

        Corporations have no balls. If any PC maker started selling gnu/linux preinstalled it would be because they are convinced there is a market for it.

  • 8O (Score:2)

    by Hosiah ( 849792 )
    The world came to an end! Why didn't somebody wake me? And send Satan a snow-shovel!

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