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Linux Business Businesses Red Hat Software SuSE

Linspire Five-0 First Look 163

Posted by Hemos from the making-it-eas(ier)-to-use dept.
Eugenia writes "OSNews posted an exclusive first look for the upcoming Linspire 5.0: 'Linspire Five-0 is definitely a good base from which to build. The lack of well rounded applications when compared to other OSes in its class leave me wanting more, however, a slick look, some powerful Linspire specific apps, and a non-crippled undercarriage remain appealing' says the author." The bigger question will be how it stacks up against other commericial offerings in the long run. (ITMJ is also owned by OSTG).
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Linspire Five-0 First Look More

Linspire Five-0 First Look

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  • Just had to say it.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:03AM (#11666542)
    Linspire Five-0?

    Boot 'em, Danno.

    • Score (Score:2)

      by pjt33 ( 739471 )
      Am I the only person who read the headline as a five-nil score for Linspire against First Look? So it's actually a version number, then?

  • Should've named this OS somethiing better. (Score:5, Funny)

    by bigtallmofo ( 695287 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:04AM (#11666545)
    I don't know, but the name Linspire just doesn't sound good to me. They should've called this operating system somethinig much more descriptive of what it does... The only thing that jumps out to me is Lindows. I wonder why they didn't think of that name?

  • Root still the default login? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jack Taylor ( 829836 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:07AM (#11666559)
    The question is, do they still reccomend users to log in as root for everday use? The thing that put me off Linspire the most was that they have the full power of the Unix security model but they don't bother using it.
    • (Oops - I wish Slashdot came with a spell-checker ;)

    • Re:Root still the default login? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:13AM (#11666594)
      You are given the option to set up a new user when installing and on first boot and are even explained why you should do so. It has been this way since vesion 4.5. Can we please stop the "run as root" myth about Linspire.
      • That's good - I didn't know it explained why. But being root is still default, is it not?
        • It appears so. On 4.5, you're given a screen on first boot explaining a little about security. There are three buttons: OK, Set Time, Advanced. To set up a non-root user, you must click Advanced, then Manage Users to open up KDE's users config screen, and then go through those menus to actually add a new one.

          Not sure if this has changed in 5.0, but the article doesn't mention a difference.
    • Every so often i read about the root/non-root user issue.

      Granted when having root access the entire OS can be FUBARed. But files which are important for me and probably many other users are those which are in my home folder and those aren't really protected and could be probably be deleted by any process without requiring root user access.
      • So run processes that might be harmful as another user. Sure your files aren't protected from your access. How else should you work with them. But who says you (physical) have to be only one user (virtual).
      • I'd be a bit annoyed if the rm command couldn't delete my own files...

        The word you're looking for is "backup". I've set my comp to backup using rsync - you can make daily backups to a different partition/disk/computer, make a new directory every day, but use hard links to only take up the disk space of incremental backups. And then make the parent folder only writable by root. Magical stuff...
    • I went into Fry's Electronics on Saturday, walked over to one of their Linspire computers, opened an Xterm, and was greeted by this:

      root ~/ #

      Does that answer your question?

  • Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:08AM (#11666565)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • mimicking windows again (Score:4, Insightful)

    by stygianguest ( 828258 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:09AM (#11666572)
    I don't really see why distributions should mimic windows. Those who bother to install any os install like windows or some linuxes can probably adept to gnome or kde easily. And the windows interface definately aint the best around. The real problem is microsoft's hold of the big OEMs. To me that's the clearest abuse of their monopoly, yet they aren't really attacked for it...

    • Re:mimicking windows again (Score:4, Insightful)

      by BlueCodeWarrior ( 638065 ) <steevk@gmail.com> on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:21AM (#11666633) Homepage
      Different strokes for different folks. I guess you aren't in Linspire's 'target market.'
    • Many people don't install their own Linux. They're fed up with Windows so they get a friend to install it for them, or they work at a company that's switching. Either way, a familiar interface will be a good thing for these people.
    • I don't really see why distributions should mimic windows. Those who bother to install any os install like windows or some linuxes can probably adept to gnome or kde easily.

      Emphasis on "those who bother". Linspire are aiming for Joe User. THE Joe User(TM), not even Joe Advanced User who might be able to do a format c: on his Windows PC every now and then or have the skills and curiosity to try out other apps than those which come with their OS.

      Joe User(TM) can't do this. He's the kind of guy who can onl
      • You're probably right and I understand this is the motivation to make linspire. But as you say yourself, Joe Average is unable to install a new OS. Which means that they won't ever come to try linspire unless it comes pre-installed with the computer, which doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.
    • Windows OS is better than any I have yet to see on Linux. Only OSX is better.

      It's not just how good screenshots work, but how fast windows move around the screen. How much of the GUI is hardware-accelerated. How tight the design is (as in how many flaws/glitches there are).

      I'm not trying to upset anyone here, but I've yet to see a non-windows/apple UI that doesn't scream "amateur".

      Windows and OSX have dedicated teams of professional designers, all working under ONE design manager. That ONE person cal

      • Design of cause is a matter of taste, so fortunatly I can say I disagree and I like my gnome 2.0 better than windows. It's true though that windows has a smoother operating gui, but that's not going to change in linspire. So pratically, there's no market for linspire.
        • i meant to say there's no market because joe avarage cant install it, and it will not be available preinstalled in the foreseable future....
        • I'm not talking about the specific design, but the actual tightness of the output. In every Linux gui I've used, there have been glitches. Fonts not rendering properly or bunched too close together, controls being all skewy, or some such distraction

          I'm a web developer, so I guess I have an eye for that. However, it's too damned much for me to use the GUIs for any length of time. My linux experience these days is via SSH - the design in that is perfect ;)

      • I'm not trying to upset anyone here, but I've yet to see a non-windows/apple UI that doesn't scream "amateur".

        Ever tried Gnome? Made me think my XP box was "my daughter's first PC" after I tried Gnome.

      • Good, GOD, someone who agrees with me. I was afraid that /. was overrun by Linux zealots and Mac fanboys. (Oh wait, it still is.)

        One thing that really irks me about any Linux GUI is how much screen space they waste. Running Linux on 1024x768 is equivalent to running Windows on 800x600. 800x600 is a usable resolution for many people, but when you do photo editing and paper writing, you need all the screen space you can get.

        Hell, even Windows OSS programs have that problem- compare the amount of space OpenO
    • Standards are a wonderful thing. And MS (bless their corporate hearts) have established a defacto standard for GUIs. Its not perfect, but its pretty good and most computer users know it.

      (Before you jump all over this one regarding who copied who and motif and Xerox Parc blah blah blah, take note: thats not the point - MS took GUIs to the masses and established a standard.)

      So given the defacto standard is there, you can either create something wild and new and get the respect of geeks like us, or you can

  • cnr (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:12AM (#11666591)
    Of course, once you have resorted to using raw apt-get, what's the point of Click-N-Run?

    Nothing.

    Unless, of course, you are in that 90% of the population that would rather gouge their eyes out with spoons than use the command line :)

    Don't forget the target audience for CNR is probably not the sort of people who hang around here or OSNews. For that, it does what it does pretty well.

  • dropshadowing (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:13AM (#11666596)
    from the article:
    "Dropshadowing in Linux is still pretty rare, and is not always very effective."
    pretty rare?
    I thought that anybody who used KDE,
    and had a fast computer, would have those turned on by default, (that kde wizard that makes thing look shinnnyyy...)
    or through the control panel.
    drop shadowing (IMHO) has been around since 3.1

  • This post is wonderful (Score:5, Insightful)

    by strider44 ( 650833 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:15AM (#11666603)
    I wonder with Linspire the same thing I wonder about Paint Shop Pro. If they actually increased the price of Linspire to something only just lower (about five dollars) than Windows XP Home Ed., bundling the extras in, putting it in a pretty box in as many stores as they can (department stores, gaming stores, supermarkets even if they can), and releasing a discounted OEM version, then it might be even more successful. Right now it looks like a cheap Windows knockoff (cause basically that's what it is). If they started to project the same or similar image as Windows, projecting an image of superiority at a better price then people may consider it side by side with Windows very seriously indeed.

    People automatically assume you get what you pay for, even when a lot of the time that's completely false. An OS is a big important tool, and people are probably going to be careful. If they raise the price, I think people would take it more seriously, Linspire will make huge amounts of money and hopefully give back to linux, and linux would gain popularity as a result.

    Just me wondering...

    • Re:This post is wonderful (Score:4, Interesting)

      by arodland ( 127775 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:28AM (#11666668)
      But it is the case with PSP, though. In the same class as Photoshop? No chance. I can get more done more easily with GIMP.
      • I think one of the major barriers to PSP is that it is too cheap, and because of this it isn't really a competitor to photoshop - pros will pay for photoshop because it's just a drop in a bucket, and newbies will just pirate photoshop. They need to put up a serious case for pros on why they should buy this instead of photoshop.

        However this is a different case, even though I'm wondering the same thing. When people choose an operating system, they think "I'm stuck with this for a while aren't I?" They a
        • You have two types of people who use Photoshop. The types that pirate it because it's supposed to be a good graphics application, and the people who are very much into its functionallity and rely upon it. Jasc will never make money off of group one anyway even if PSP were beter than PS tomorrow. Group 2 are the sorts of people who really require the functionality of Photoshop. Either they will pirate it or buy it, but they need photoshop for a reason.

          I think Jasc has done a pretty good job with PSP. PS
      • good for you, but GIMP is widely acclaimed as a useability disaster.

  • DVD Playback (Score:5, Funny)

    by Smiffa2001 ( 823436 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:17AM (#11666612)
    "How can this be that a commercial OS doesn't include DVD playback?"

    Erm... I'd like to add another commercial OS that doesn't play DVD's right out of the box to this shocking list: Windows XP.

    At least with WMP9 I get a "Windows Media Player cannot play this DVD because a compatible DVD decoder is not installed on your computer".

    • Re:DVD Playback (Score:5, Informative)

      by chill ( 34294 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:31AM (#11666679) Journal
      However, adding legally-licensed DVD playback to Linspire is cheaper, faster and simpler than Windows. Their modified version of Xine w/the properly licensed codec costs $4.95 and installs from Click-n-Run in 30 seconds on a decent broadband connection.

      WinDVD is $49.95 (10x the price) and after you download and save you must then install and reboot. Not 30 seconds by any stretch.

      • How did you not get a copy of PowerDVD free w/ the DVD drive? I think it also came in the mail w/ samples of Tide.

      • Re:DVD Playback (Score:2, Insightful)

        by dave420 ( 699308 )
        You have missed a massive, massive part of your example. When you install the DVD decoder in Windows, you can decode DVDs in ANY application that supports DirectShow. You can even link together your own filters in GraphEdit to process the DVD through ANY first/third-party filters installed on your machine.

        A DVD decoder in Windows isn't a stand-alone application, but an addition to the DirectShow architecture, which still is the most powerful and easy to use multimedia rendering solution available on the

        • A DVD decoder in Windows isn't a stand-alone application, but an addition to the DirectShow architecture, which still is the most powerful and easy to use multimedia rendering solution available on the desktop.

          How do you figure?

          I'm not looking to start a fight here, but why do you feel that DirectShow is more powerful and easier to use than Quicktime?

      • WinDVD (or some equivalent) is also bundled with pretty much every video card or DVD drive sold in the last few years. I would be amazed to find anyone here who didn't have access to a legitimate copy of a windows DVD player.
      • Yes, but usually when you buy a DVD drive, you get playback software bundled with it. Guess what, the software is for Windows. If you don't have a DVD drive, why do you want DVD playback?
  • There is a recent review of Mandrakelinux 10.1 Official on Newsforge: "For ease of use, Mandrakelinux can't beat. The Mandrakelinux Control Center is cleanly laid out and is probably the most intuitive on the market.", it's available here [newsforge.com].

    I've been using Mdklinux 10.1 for several months and it's incredibly powerful and stable, with thousands applications available from a simple click or a urpmi. Really worth a try.

    Disclaimer: Newsforge is part of OSTG.

  • Create partition ahead of time? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Drencrom ( 689725 ) <jorge@BALDWINmerlino.uy minus author> on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:23AM (#11666638) Journal
    Like in Linspire 4.0, you have to prep a partition ahead of time or take over the entire disk at install

    Is it only me or this should not happen in a new distro installer?
    More so considering it is oriented to windows users.

  • Doesn't it lock you into costly subscriptions? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @08:33AM (#11666682) Homepage Journal
    Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose? I mean here we have a desktop that requires more or less the same horsepower as Windows to run. Is slightly less functional than Windows to use strictly as a desktop and costs slightly less than windows to own? It doesn't seem like a wonderful bargain. Perhaps something like ELX or Vectorlinux which can be had for free and install on cheap hardware is the way to go instead of trying to reverse engineer the functionality of windows.

    I think the Linux folks need to accept that Windows really is a better choice for some functions at least from a simple "I just need to do what I do PoV" and if you go the Linux route it's not to replicate Windows functionality but instead to do someother thing, introduce some other function. Of course in a corporate environment the support costs of maintaining a Linux desktop evironment appear less in light of fewer security problems and an inherent ability to push updates to desktops but that has to be weighed against the skills of the user base and the questions and problems they will have. On the other hand unless your own time is free and you don't like managing the innumerable security patches, personal firewall, AV update, spyware circus that is home LAN administration for Windows then why not get a bunch of Macs? It's BSD based, pretty tough, industrial strength Unix under the covers and the price point of a MiniMac or an iMac make it pretty attractive.

    For the most part, that is. If you like bittwiddling and really want to build a something and that's your hobby then fine, have at it. But it really doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to struggle with a Linux desktop that isn't designed specifically around ease of installation and ease of use AND lower cost. If you need the same brand new high powered PC hardware to run it AND installation is still problematic AND configuration is still a chore AND you still have to struggle with NTFS volume mounts, Wine and Windows applications then what have you solved?

    • Keep your eyes on the prize (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think the Linux folks will keep up the hard work of development until they don't have to make any concessions to anybody.

      But to the extent that Joe Average has to make concessions to the Losedows monopoly, even a Mac can be a stretch. Anything Wintel boxen can do, Macs can do better (or could, if you judge the platform by what game titles get released for it) in a single-platform environment. But when my Dad asked me if he should buy a Mac, I had to realize I wasn't dealing with a YMMV kinda guy. He wo

      • Re:Keep your eyes on the prize (Score:4, Interesting)

        by gelfling ( 6534 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @01:24PM (#11669739) Homepage Journal
        That's certainly true from a security perspective but people don't really think that way otherwise they'd install functional software on the windows boxes they have and take at least rudimentary steps. Most commercial Windows boxes are loaded down with tons of security software now, McAfee, Symantec and others preload their stuff on and all you have to do is pay for a real licence after the 60 day trial period is up. But nearly no one does that nor do they bother to look for or download a free product nor would they understand how to do that or how to install it. Hell my kids alternatively ignore or click w/o thinking ZA popups all the time. They regularly manage to have all sorts of crap autoinstall that they claim they didn't know how it got there. My family doesn't actually understand the difference between a)the browser b) the computer c) the internet. Seriously, it's all the same thing.

        So here's the point. If people cared about security they'd do something. So giving them a Linux box and telling them it's more secure has almost no value. Telling them they'll have to babysit it less has no value because they don't do that now. You do. The only thing you can sell them on is a) popups (which you can do with Firefox/Netscape on Windows and b) some kind of spin on identity theft as in not letting strangers into your box to steal something. What might work is if you can sell them on the idea for getting as good or better 'security' for far less money. If you let them buy a maching for their kids it's going to have to serve a very schizophrenic set of requirements. It will have to play games and it will have to protect the wittle kiddies from pictures of penises and vaginas. And it will have to run all of the file formats they use in school and it will have to burn CDs with zero effort and, and this is little noted, it will have to boot in under 2 minutes. More than that and you will hear an endless littany of "The computer's broken again..." You also need to build the system that will be able to restart from an abrupt shutdown very quickly and it can't ask the user any questions like 'do you want to fsck?'

        I've seen people throw away new computers after they were massively infected with viruses and spyware, have highly fragmented drives or suffered a minor object corruption in an office suite rendering it buggy or inoperable even though they had the installation media. I don't mean have someone tear it down and rebuild the software from scratch I mean unplug it and move it to the basement will all of Dad's other toys in the Museum of Bad Ideas. And go out and but a new one only to have the same thing happen in a year or less. They are left with the conclusion that all computers are shitty little toys that no one should ever bother to learn how to use.

        I think this is the sweetspot that Apple is shooting for. It's one that's probably out of MS grasp forever having surrendered reliability on the altar of whatever the hell is good for MS's bottom line. Linux needs to shoot for that middle space between expensive mindless Mac reliability cheap useless high maintenance PCs. It has to look and feel like Windows or Apple and it has to run w/o any human intervention and it has to run without glitches or problems or delays or pages of boot up messages and it has to mask the filesystem from the user and instead use folders or Mac like containers. It has to recover quickly and gracefully and it has to report errors or problems in clear stupid partially informative messages that do more handholding than instruction.
  • I honestly don't see why so many people are hailing Linspire as a revolutionairy OS. It looks like a crazy amalgation of apps from Windows and Mac OS X. None of the stuff they are including in this release is new, they are simply stealing the new ideas from Apple and MS (e.g. showing common tasks in explorer windows, LPhoto similarities with iPhoto). Oh well, I guess it is as Picasso put it:
    "Good artists copy, great artists steal"
    • Not that I would wish more lawsuits on the world, but this strikes me as exactly the sort of thing that trademark law was designed to protect against. LPhoto seems as close to iPhoto as say...Lindows seems to Windows.

      Perhaps the lawers can splain why this is or is not an issue...
      • Not that I would wish more lawsuits on the world, but this strikes me as exactly the sort of thing that trademark law was designed to protect against. LPhoto seems as close to iPhoto as say...Lindows seems to Windows.

        Perhaps if apple wished to be protected by trademark law they should come up with a name that's a little more unique. Trademarks are intended to differentiate your business from other businesses, not to allow you to buy common words that describe your product so competitors can't use them.

  • Linspire= future of desktop linux (Score:4, Insightful)

    by acomj ( 20611 ) on Monday February 14, 2005 @09:47AM (#11667337) Homepage
    Linspire although often put down by geeks as unsophisticated compared to its debian/geentoo/redhat/ madrake.

    Note that if you poke around the homepage, no mention of if KDE/Gnome is the desktop of choice. The users he's targeting don't care, they just want a machine that works, without popups and spyware.. They "click and run" subscription seems like apt-get but for money and easier.

    Linspire however represents linux's best attempt to make a Linux OS that anyone including your grandmother can use. Its not great yet, but its pretty ok. And comming pre-installed on machines from walmart\ and microcenter and it seems pretty affordable, so it seems to have some traction.

    They want to be the mac os-x of linux world. Just look at their homepage [linspire.com]. Look like this? [apple.com] Its not coincidence.

    Heck they even have a itunes "clone" they sell. called lsongs. (l for linux/ songs = tunes, get it ). [linspire.com]

    Software is a funny business. Volume means alot.
    So if linspire is making money, expect it to improve. Hopefully all improvements they make come back and make all linux's better.
  • Linux for cops?
  • 1. Too Windowsy, No linux geek is his right mind would espouse to using it, at least not the ones I know.

    2. Its a Debian clone, if you turn around and try to change sources.list , then update it. Youll break a number of things. This happens similiarly with Xandros, but most of Xandros's own repositories arent bad.

    3. It costs money. If im going to buy a distribution, Im going to buy an industry level solution (Suse and/or NLD). Robertson has a good idea, but not enough umph behind it.

    my .02$.

  • How to make money off something others give away for free?

    There is almost nothing worth the buy compared to another "desktop-oriented" distro. Slick look? You can have thousands of "looks" for your KDE or Gnome desktop for free. From the screenshots, Linspire obviously uses KDE. They could have at least developed a new desktop environment if they wanted to sell something "different". As for security and overall "up-to-date-ness", I'm pretty sure you're well better off with one of the major distros out ther

  • that's just lovely
    - put 2 links to ostg partners in blurb
    - get submission accepted because of free adspace for patners
    - end up slashdotting the site, so far for the free ads then, and i have no clue what other distro's you meant (suse, novell or redhat id guess)
  • The entire idea of Linspire is flawed. You combine the worst aspects of Linux with the worst aspects of Windows. If people just keep on trying to copy Microsoft products and only see compatability as their main goal then nothing revolutionary is going to happen. Look at Linux. Most of Linux development recently has been trying to challenge M$ and get a simmilar look and feel. I am sorry but you are dooming yourself if your primary goal is to play catch up.
  • 7/8ths or something of all the distros out there are now debian clones it appears on a casual glance at distro watch. The bummer is, it's tedious as all get out to try them all out if you are stuck on dialup and your burner has a mind of it's own and only works hit or miss. That leaves sending away mailorder for CDs, which gets old after awhile. Every time I try a new one, something else is broken it appears, given that I am referring to this "me" guy and "me's" personal machine, not any generic other poste

  • Is it just me... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by millennial ( 830897 )
    ... or is the first screenshot from a Windows XP machine with a silver skin?
    See for yourself... [osnews.com]

    Maybe it's just me, but I didn't think it was possible to run MMC applications under Linux... and the fact that the WINDOWS LOGO is in the Start button kinda gives me the feeling that this is Windows. The Linspire folks wouldn't dare use that logo in an official release...

    Also, notice:
    • the disks have drive letters (e.g. D:)
    • My Computer is identical to the Windows XP version
    • ... PowerDVD? DVD Decrypter? AD-A

    • Re:Is it just me... (Score:1, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Congrats. You successfully identified the Windows XP desktop. Had you read the article, you'd know why there was an XP screenshot displaying the partition problem.

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