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Mandriva Businesses Hardware

Shuttle XPC Linux Network Appliance 186

Posted by michael from the little-black-noisy dept.
NoPants writes "Another big name looks like it's going to shack up with Linux. Shuttle, the maker of those small little cube looking PCs, is adopting Mandrake Linux with their newest network appliance XPCs. You can check out a review of the machine at Sudhian."
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Shuttle XPC Linux Network Appliance More

Shuttle XPC Linux Network Appliance

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  • not news (Score:5, Informative)

    by Gherald ( 682277 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:35PM (#8274920) Journal
    Shuttle has bundled Mandrake with it's barebones and motherboards for a long time now.

  • The installation review is really impressive (Score:5, Informative)

    by plover ( 150551 ) * on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:42PM (#8274998) Homepage Journal
    Skip the review of the Shuttle appliance for now. The reviewer perfomed a click-by-click installation review of both Mandrake 9.2 and Windows XP on the machine.

    Bottom line: Mandrake was easier and faster to install than XP. It had just as many pretty pictures, and it required less knowledge on the part of the user regarding networking, hardware, etc. It took 40 minutes instead of 50, and required only one reboot as opposed to the nine+ required to install XP. And when it was done, the reviewer had far more applications ready to run installed on the machine.

    His conclusion was that Linux is indeed ready for the desktop.

    • Re:The installation review is really impressive (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      My co-worker was plenty impressed with Mandrake 9.2 until he tried to rename CDROM1 and CDROM2 to DVD and CD_WRITER. Thats when Mandrake started self-destructing. Its not a very robust system. Very easy to break if you try to deviate at all from the standard install.

      He went right back to Windows XP. Too bad... ;-(

      • Re:The installation review is really impressive (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Maybe renaming and creating symbolic links to the new names may have fixed it? Just a random guess. Unfortunately it's too late now, eh?

        Ask the poor guy to rename "Program Files" to "stuff_to_run" or something like that and see how XP handles it. Slippery slope, but c'mon, renaming folders is just about equivalent to renaming your drives in Linux. There are hooks tied to those names (LSB, maybe?) and when you suddenly switch to a name the machine doesn't expect, things go wrong. No different in Window
        • He's right. Its very easy to break Mandrake's GUI tools. I expect these things will be fixed in a year or two and Linux will then be a very good desktop.
        • For the record, if you try, you will find that explorer hides options like delete and rename on system folders like program files. If you finally find a way to delete using explorer (e.g. by hitting delete) you get an error message. It's not impossible but if you manage to delete your program files folder, you fully deserve the missery. There's several layers of protection and warnings.
      • My girlfriend was impressed with Mac OS X until she renamed /home/atr/ (her initials) to /home/alli/ (her name).

        Mac OS X didn't like that so much. She stuck with Mac OS X. Maybe every OS needs to telepathically interpret your desires, or maybe your coworker is the problem. Sure, maybe Mandrake should have prevented him from easily changing those names if it was going to be destructive.
        • Idealy, the system would recognize the change and update any old references to the path on-the-fly. Not necessarily easy, but it would sure help in cases like this.
          • > Not necessarily easy, but it would sure help in cases like this.
            Not necessarily complicated:
            Monitor the "/home" directory for changes with FAM [sgi.com] a "FAMMoved"-event denotes the renaming of a home directory. Make approriate changes in necessary files (e.g. passwd/shadow). A "FAMDeleted"-event could trigger a dialogue, which confirms the removal of the user from the db, a "FAMCreated"-event the dialogue for adding a new user.

            The problem is, for every such solution there are surely hundred of other places

      • Re:The installation review is really impressive (Score:5, Insightful)

        by incom ( 570967 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @08:10PM (#8275721)
        I'm surprised Mandrake lets normal users do this operation. If he did this as root, then he deserves breakage, only use root if you know what your doing, you'd breakage get on XP if you were to rename a windows system folder or file, or mess around blindly in the registry.
      • When messing around with mandrake, one must be extra-careful. More careful than, say, mucking around with debian. That's because Mandrake holds your hand... so you must disable all the hand-holding stuff before you want to get down n' dirty (linuxconf daemon comes on by default... good luck editing your config files :)

        Once you disable the moron-proofing, you are left with a distro that is as easy to use as you want it to. Great stuff, mandrake.

        • Shenanigans. Linuxconf is not on by default in Mandrake, and thank god it isn't. It isn't even installed by default unless you tell it to.

          As far as "Mandrake is easy to break" goes... I guess if you do some pretty silly stuff while logged in as root, yes, you can break it. It's much easier to break stuff in WinXP Home - because everyone is an Administrator. I didn't need that silly \windows\system32\krnl386.exe file anyway, did I?

          Installing Mandrake is extremely easy, as the author states. There are often
    • Thanks for the rundown... their slow server made it impossible to read the article before reading all the comments.

    • Re:The installation review is really impressive (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Eberlin ( 570874 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:04PM (#8275205) Homepage
      I had always ranted to anyone who would listen about how many times one had to reboot Windows (in my case, win98) during/after installation. Oh I've found new hardware, let's reboot! Same song and dance for a network card, a USB mouse, the sound card, a video card, the webcam, etc. Then it's installing MS Office which requires at least another reboot, if not two.

      My install of RH9 took a few minutes and one reboot -- after which I've got my devices working (yeah yeah, issues with Linux hardware support but if you're careful, everything is supported out of the "box"), have most of the software I need, and am pretty much ready to go. Then you install APT, run the update/upgrade, and maybe reboot again just for fun.

      For a base install (without the extra tweaks), RH9 seems to be more convenient. In all cases, though, especially for updates, broadband comes in very handy.
    • One thing you are forgetting:
      For the M$ install the time didn't include partitioning and for Mandrake it did, so instead of it being 10 mins faster it's more like 15-20

  • Asus DigiMatrix (Score:5, Informative)

    by 3Suns ( 250606 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:42PM (#8275002) Homepage
    On a somewhat related note, there's a recent article [anandtech.com] on anandtech about the Asus DigiMatrix, a barebone computer aimed at people building a home-theater PC. that's one sexy box, with a volume knob and case buttons and an LCD, video capture card, radio tuner, tv tuner, gigabit ethernet, wireless ethernet, DVD/CD-RW, embedded audio-player OS, 7-in-1 card reader...

    I'm seriously considering getting one of these and making a linux media station / fileserver. Obviously Asus supports only Win2k and WinXP, but it seems like a fun challenge getting all those cutting-edge hardware components to run in linux. Most of them, even the ethernet controller, are so new they aren't directly supported in the kernel yet. And getting all the various Linux media applications to start up and obey the case buttons automatically based on what is inserted sounds like a software project in itself.

    • Re:Asus DigiMatrix (Score:5, Informative)

      by ERJ ( 600451 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:50PM (#8275098)
      Yeah, I was looking at this too as a mythtv frontend to a mythtv server. Anyway, in my exploration I found this site:

      Linus on ASUS DigiMatrix [easter-eggs.org]
      • Damn my fumble fingers...that should have been:

        Linux on ASUS DigiMatrix.
      • Linus on ASUS DigiMatrix

        I tried that link, but I was disapointed to see that it wasn't Linus standing on a ASUS DigiMatrix!

      • OK, I'm going to have to blow my mods up...

        The main reason to get a Digimatrix is it's ***HDTV*** AND CABLE TUNER.

        The HDTV part has no Linux drivers, and unless ASUS helps out here with at least binary drivers, it's almost pointless to use Linux here.

        I looked HARD at this box, and am tempted, but it will be a Windows box (unless ASUS helps) and I don't do Windows. (Yes, I'm one of those people, still have an Amiga 3000, so bite me)
        • If ASUS were to release a ready to roll Linux distro with the Digimatrix, with all the required drivers (HDTV), preconfigured/ready to run out of the box with MythTV or such, they would just about own the world with this totally slick little box.

    • Re:Asus DigiMatrix (Score:5, Funny)

      by blackmonday ( 607916 ) * on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:05PM (#8275210) Homepage
      As an owner of a Linux box with wireless ethernet and a TV Tuner, I suggest something less painless and more fun than your project: hang yourself by the testicles on a merry-go-round.

    • I was reading the review and digging it, until I got to the "known issues" [anandtech.com] page:

      The second issue comes with the macrovision encoding that the HDTV does via the SiS301C video bridge. If you have that form of video out enabled, programs like PowerDVD and the DVD play within Home Theater crashes. The easiest way to avoid this is just to disable video out and set the primary display to your monitor (CRT or LCD mode).

      You can't play DVDs on a TV with this machine, and neither ASUS nor the reviewer didn't conside

        1. This may be a bug with the way Anandtech installed the software
        2. this may be a peculiarity (defect) in their sample
        3. it may work to use regular NTSC video out, rather than HDTV encoding (albeit at a regular TV resolution)
        4. this may not be a problem if you installed other DVD software
        5. it definitely isn't a DRM issue, in which case it wouldn't crash the player
        6. chances are it's a bug that will be fixed soon
        • Good points, but I do have to object to point number 5. The screenshot they show says (and it contradicts itself) "DVD Error / TheTV Out port of your display is not working properly. / This copy protected disc can not be ploayed when the TV out function is enabled." So, I fear that it is a DRM issue that won't be fixed.

          But, like you pointed out, we can't really tell what's going on yet - from the exact situation that's causing the problem, to what the actual product will do.

  • Network Appliance? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by signalgod ( 233854 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:45PM (#8275037)
    What exactly qualifies this small form factor computer as a network applicance?

    I'm just curious...

    • Re:Network Appliance? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Mad_Rain ( 674268 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:11PM (#8275265) Journal
      From the article:

      "Unless you're a close follower of Shuttle press releases, you may wonder what defines a Network Appliance XPC - and indeed the definition does seem somewhat fuzzy. The common feature tends to be the inclusion of one or more "server" features - such as Gigabit LAN, or dual PCI, or dual LAN or RAID support. The current range of Network Appliance XPCs includes the SB52G2 (featuring the Intel 845GV chipset, Gigabit LAN and two PCI slots), the SB62G2 (featuring the Intel 865G chipset, SATA RAID, dual LAN adapters and the subject of today's review) and the SB75G2 (featuring the Intel 875P chipset, SATA RAID and a single Gigabit LAN adapter)."

      My best guess is that it has some hardware abilities more in-line with a server than a standard desktop.

      • Re:Network Appliance? (Score:5, Interesting)

        by erikdotla ( 609033 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @09:05PM (#8276117)
        I have to agree with the original poster. It's seamless, simple, kiosk-like software that makes a computer into an appliance. Form factor and cool knobs are a start, and have the potential to allow an enthusiast to turn it into an appliance, but it sure isn't an appliance out of the box.

        After I complete my Mandrake installation, how do I instruct my non-techie brother to copy a video he downloaded to the appliance, and then play it on the TV? I have to write some script to monitor a folder for new videos and play them automatically. Same for pictures? Need some sort of folder monitor and slideshow. Not to mention I have to set up the shares. Forget it.

        A true appliance won't even need a keyboard or mouse. It's front panel would have all the controls you need and well documented usage instructions. I don't have to telnet to my microwave, nor do I have to telnet to my complicated DVD and surround sound equipment, which supports VCDs and the like. I put them in and they start. I put food in, press a button, and it gets hot.

        Since this is a computer-based appliance, it should have the option for remote configuration. Perhaps I'd name my machine Linguo. I'd expect to dump a video to \\linguo\Play_Video and press a video button on the front panel. When it's done, it would archive it into a DVR-like system that I could call up and play later using http://linguo from any computer in the house.

        I'd dump a picture to \\linguo\Pictures and press a picture button on the front panel and it would start a slideshow. Another front panel button would flip it into thumbnail mode (like my digital camera) and a few arrow keys and the picture button would let me view the pictures.

        I'd dump an MP3 to \\linguo\Music and press a music button on the front panel. It would start playing the first track and would have two buttons - album select, track select. If I had 4000 MP3s up there, I might choose to visit http://linguo and ask it to play a specific song.

        Of course, a standard tv-style remote control unit should eliminate the need for even the web server, though it should maybe stay for the "select one song from 4000" example, where a PC interface is simply the most efficient.

        Ideally, I'd never even install the OS, and wouldn't even know or care what it was running. All I know is that it creates shares on my network compatible with Windows, Mac OSX, and Linux, and it works.

        That's an appliance.

  • Speeding up....... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by psi42 ( 747491 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:45PM (#8275038)
    This is where things start to pick up...

    With a Linux distro bundled with hardware, buyers of said hardware do not need to go on their own initiative to download and install linux. It is right at their fingertips, bundled with their new barebone. They've just bought a Penguin Powered system, and chances are they will try linux out and not just delete it...... And then they will see the light.....

    And this is where Linux on the Desktop really starts to expand......

    Let it begin.

    • Re:Speeding up....... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jbplou ( 732414 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:53PM (#8275585)
      I think things it would be much better if dell offer home users a choice between Windows and Mandrake and the customer got a $75 discount if they used Mandrake. Then Linux would start penetrating the market quickly.
    • I can see it now - budget PCs sold with Linux to make them cheaper. Consumers who don't know/care about Linux get it and spend years complaining to everyone about how the computer can't do X and Y.

    • Only works if.. (Score:3, Insightful)

      by msimm ( 580077 )
      It doesn't inconvenience them. Otherwise you've just got an annoyed Microsoft customer using Linux cdroms as coasters.

      Might be good for people already familiar with Linux or who want to make the switch. But for a new user to convert its going to have to do something better then the current standard (which like it or not is Windows). Something that will actually positively effect their day to day use or give them some ragging rights. Like preinstalled MythTV.

  • Linux (Score:5, Funny)

    by Raindance ( 680694 ) * <johnsonmx@@@gmail...com> on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:47PM (#8275062) Homepage Journal
    "Another big name looks like it's going to shack up with Linux."

    Linux seems to really get around. But what will the children look like?

  • Mirror! (Score:5, Informative)

    by FiberOpPraise ( 607416 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:48PM (#8275068) Homepage
    Since the site is dying at 10 posts already:

    Mirror! [fibersnet.net]

  • Network Appliance. (Score:5, Informative)

    by BrookHarty ( 9119 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:50PM (#8275094) Journal
    Interesting topic, Shuttle XPC Linux Network Appliance.

    A PC+Linux isn't a network appliance, its still a PC. A true network appliance, is a raid array with an ethernet adapter, its a piece of hardware performing a function.

    Before you say, well yes the computer can do it also.. You have install and set it up. Appliances in general are stupid things that are cheap and easy to replace, you just plug in and turn on. PC's are not appliances.

    Little pet peeve, but really if you don't care for HD's and the whole 1000k vs 1024K, this is along those lines. Use the correct terms you hackers.

  • Just got my own Shuttle system (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Bander ( 2001 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:52PM (#8275117) Homepage
    I just built out my own Shuttle system a couple of weeks ago, based around the SB65G2 and a P4 3Ghz. Unless you've seen one in person, the "cube" format is smaller than you expect from pictures.

    The quality of the case and motherboard are very impressive, the cooling solution for such a small system is very clever. In addition, the instructions that came with the system are very clear, with photographs that detail each step of the build.

    I'm dual booting it between XP and Redhat 9, and both are running great on the system.

    -- Bander
    • I just built out my own Shuttle system a couple of weeks ago, based around the SB65G2 and a P4 3Ghz.

      I have four of the SK41G Shuttle boxes running Debian stable as web servers. I have to agree that the construction it top notch and the cooling system is very effective. The integrated sound chipset is also quite nice once you set up ALSA. The integrated video is unimpressive for a desktop, but works well enough on a server and there's an AGP 4x slot open with plenty of room for a decent video card (ai
      • there's an AGP 4x slot open with plenty of room for a decent video card (air circulation might be a problem though.)

        Well, I went nuts and got a Radeon 9800 Pro for the 8x AGP slot. Seems to work fine, no heat-related issues so far, and I've been giving the UT2004 demo a few workouts.

        Do all of the features of the SB65G2 work with a 2.4 kernel?

        On-board 10/100 ethernet works great. I use a USB keyboard with an optical mouse chained to it, both work fine. (You do need a PS2 keyboard to mess with the BIOS,
        • UT2003 is not as fast under Linux as it is under XP, which is disappointing. I'm not sure why that is...

          UT2003 uses an OpenGL wrapper that makes it noticeably slower on Linux, even with optimal hardware. Enemy Territory would be a better way of comparing between the two, but I'd expect the ATI drivers on Linux to slow things down a bit.

          Guess I'll stick with the SK41G until SATA is 100% reliable.
        • Mandrake 9.1, linux 2.4.21 on SB75G2 - SATA works prefectly, straight into DMA. Very fast, very stable box. Got one at work - I'm extemely impressed.

  • Good article... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jdtanner ( 741053 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @06:53PM (#8275131) Homepage
    Another good article from these guys.

    My point is, surely your experience of installing an OS is largely dependant on the *extra* hardware that you have e.g. 802.11b card etc

    I think it is great that Linux can get a fairly "standard" PC up and running without too much hastle these days. However, it is the glitches encountered with "non-standard" PCs that mean it isn't quite ready for the end users desktop.

    Just my two pennies worth...
    • I have a Creative Labs TNT PCI video card that I could never get to work properly with Windows 98. The card worked perfectly with xfree86, and I have it currently installed in the Linux server next to me. Sometimes Windows just doesn't work with some hardware, and it's considered ready for the desktop.
    • I have a number of non-standard PCs sitting around and getting them to work with Windows (XP Pro) is often harder than getting them to work with Linux (Generally RH or Fedora, but I'm playing with moving to Mandrake). For example, I have a PCI to PC-Card adapater with a PC-Card 802.11b network adapter, that Linux has never had trouble with (Back to Red Hat 7.3 out of the box) but even XP pro doesn't include the drivers for (It supports the adapter, but not the card, whereas Linux automagically grabs an IP a

    • Re:Good article... (Score:5, Informative)

      by FlipmodePlaya ( 719010 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:10PM (#8275257) Journal
      My thinking is just the opposite. I've experienced installs of XP (during a short lived dual boot experiment) and Linux on my PC. I have plenty of potentially problem causing hardware, like my Hauppage 401 capture card and Mad Dog 52x CD burner. SuSe, the only distro I've installed since acquiring the afformentioned hardware, had both of them working after the install. It even threw in KWinTV for TV viewing, and K3B for burning. With XP, I had to use the install CDs that came with those products. That added about 1/2 an hour onto my install time, factoring in reboots. My long winded point is that Linux seems to have already surpassed Windows in terms of auto-configuration for hardware. This is especially helpful during a frustring OS install.

      Another good thing about Linux, it was able to make use of my fancy new NVidia 5900 as soon as I put it in. A quick configuration dialogue (two or three clicks, no settings had to be changed) and I was done with it. With Windows, I was forced to run in a very low resolution while tracking down the NVidia drivers for it. Again, Linux makes using new hardware easier and faster.

      One more story, I bought a USB keyboard to replace a broken, old, PS2 one. Linux autoconfigured it, and I was done with it as quickly as I was with the video card. In Windows, I could not type a password to log on, because it did not recognize the USB keyboard. I had to borrow a working PS2 one from a friend so I could log on, and then plug in the USB KB. I then had to use the character map utility for a bit as I installed the new KB. It took me an extra two days to get a KB working under Windows!

  • Bring on the heatpipes! (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Griffon26 ( 709915 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:07PM (#8275226) Homepage

    How long will it take until they start making these things with heatpipes and large heatsinks and without fans?

    I'd much rather have a passively cooled box with a transmeta crusoe/efficeon or VIA C3 and a PVR350 card, than a box that can do software encoding+decoding and needs lots of fans.

  • ...now 2.6GHz machines with 800MHz FSB's and HT are "network appliances?"

    I guess nobody told my P4-1.4 that, because it's certainly handling its duties as a web/file server, router and workstation quite well.

  • how about PVR? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by BlackShirt ( 690851 )
    is shuttle suitable? has anyone tried? what about noise?
    • I'm trying to build one using the Shuttle ST62K, as it has an external fanless PSU and a very quiet internal fan, thus making it almost perfect for a PVR. However the Linux support isn't as great with it as its ATI chipset is very new. I'm currently in the early stages of trying to get it sorted out [bluelightning.org].

    • Re:how about PVR? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by lordfoul ( 108260 )
      I use a Shuttle XPC sk41g with an Amd Athlon 2400+ with Showshifter as the PVR software. It works great and is very Quiet. I can't hear it unless I am within a couple inches of the box. SHuttle uses a very large heat pipe with only one fan (variable speed user set-able).
    • Using an SK41G with MythTV. Very quiet, I went ahead and got one for my desktop as well because it was so quiet. My old, loud tower sits in the closet now as a fileserver.

  • Looks like... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by inode_buddha ( 576844 )
    ... this could fill in a bit of market gap left by the Cobalt line, maybe? I know I'm interested in this anyway.

  • Shuttles rock! (Score:3, Informative)

    by BookRead ( 610258 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:21PM (#8275319)
    The form factor is outstanding. Inside is a little snug and they aren't all that expandable but they make great workstations and small servers and they aren't space or energy hogs. I bought one because it was relatively cheap and customizable and love it for its quality. They are really well engineered. Nothing in excess about them but plenty of capacity.

    Now shipping with Linux (and it installs easier than XP)! Holy cow! How did the future sneak up on us like that?

    • Most likely my next PC will be a Shuttle, or something very much like it (even smaller footprint would be desirable. I want a desktop system, no fan noise, separate keyboard, video and mouse. And paying a lot more for a laptop to do that is silly.

      I hope more systems integrators "get it" soon. The Big Case vs Laptop at premium prices is a false economic choice to have to make.
      • www.cappuccinopc.com

        Hey, if you get Linux working well on one of them, let me know... I've been dying to buy one and maybe a Flash-RAM IDE drive and get MythTV or the like working on it...

        I've had one of the Shuttle XPCs for about 2 years now and am very happy with it, but its more of a workstation choice than a MediaPC/Appliance.

  • Reviewer should test Mandrake also previosly... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Pecisk ( 688001 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @07:24PM (#8275340)
    ...as RedHat NEVER actually cared about user expierence so much as Mandrake have all the time. Ok, for some time and still Mandrake Linux 9.2 initial release was too buggy, BUT things are improving, if we are talking about user interface side. Configuration tools and update system in Mandrake are clean and very well thought (don't talking about rpm depency here, only graphical interface). All things mentioned by reviewer also have made my life easer (don't looking to that I'm advanced Linux sysadmin). People starts to pick those things what Mandrake have envolved and extended for years. Good for them. As I have left them as my favorite platform - using Debian now - but still, Galaxy as default theme for both KDE and GNOME rocks as their many configuration tools. And it has the best solution in Linux how to mount SMB share in GUI.
  • I bought a Shuttle SS51G about this time last year. 1.7 GHz Celeron, 512 MB of RAM and an 80 GB hard drive. I originally stuck Mandrake on there, then after a month, moved to Debian (testing). I've been running Debian on there since, and I must say it is a very nice fit.

  • HTPC (Score:4, Interesting)

    by DeadBugs ( 546475 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @08:00PM (#8275641) Homepage
    Shuttles make great Home Theater PC's. I have been using one [digitalwreckage.com] for several months now. Linux support for this type of hobby is growing as well.

    Using one of these you can build a device for your home theater that will handle MP3's, DVD's, DIVX, Pictures and act like a TIVO.

    Adding Linux to the mix could make pre-configured HTPC boxes as common as DVD players. Maybe even for sale at Walmart.

  • On the bottom of the linked Shuttle page: (Score:4, Insightful)

    by incom ( 570967 ) on Friday February 13, 2004 @08:16PM (#8275761)
    *This site is optimized for Netscape 4.5, Mozilla 1.0 and IE 5.0 or above.

    This may be a good company to support(with purchases). Thier left hand and right hand seem to be coordinated.
  • I am interested to see the kind of support available for Linux on the MSI Mega180 [msicomputer.com] sytem. It should be fairly straightforward as it is nForce2, but I still wouldn't expect the LCD or remote to be easy to talk to -- might be a fun project to hack on...

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