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Caldera Businesses Linux Business

New Survey Finds No Linux 'Chill' From SCO Suit 582

daddywonka writes "According to this article at internetnews.com, an upcoming survey from the Robert Frances Group shows that 'cost-savings and the General Public License, or GPL, are trumping any concerns about SCO Group's claim of copyright infringement within parts of Linux.' The survey only covers 15 companies. That doesn't seem very reassuring to me. Do any slashdotters have experience with their companies pulling the plug on Linux projects due to the SCO trial or is it business as usual?"
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New Survey Finds No Linux 'Chill' From SCO Suit

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  • No worries... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by danielrm26 ( 567852 ) * on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:51AM (#7801923) Homepage
    The reason the SCO heat is not affecting Linux deployments all that much is simple - most Linux admins are knowledgeable enough to gather that it's only a matter of time before the entire SCO thing blows over. Armed with this knowledge, they are able to make a convincing argument to management that there is nothing to worry about, and any Linux projects on the table are able to move forward as planned.

    I am sure there are exceptions, but my guess is that this is the overall trend.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:54AM (#7801928)
      they are able to make a convincing argument to management

      And that works on your planet? You people are alien!

      • Re:No worries... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by NullAndVoid ( 181397 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:45AM (#7802247)
        The fact that IBM and other Big Name companies are telling SCO to go pound salt is a big help when making the Linux case to suits. Plus there is not real investment, if SCO succeeds and we end up with our back against the wall we can put something else on those boxes and carry on.

        If the likes of IBM were to cave in to SCO the landscape would change dramatically. Headlines in the WSJ and NYT about IBM giving up Linux or big companies having the shell out big payouts after being sued would catch management's attention, and darkness would descend.
        • Re:No worries... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by rutledjw ( 447990 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @10:05AM (#7802555) Homepage
          > The fact that IBM and other Big Name companies are telling SCO to go pound salt...

          Yes, but MS flew several of our execs (mostly technical execs) to Redmond to highlight their products, particularly aiming at the low-cost computing model. It was basically an attempt to take a whack at Linux since we were 4 months into a company-wide effort to adopt Linux at the expense of commercial UNIX and Windows.

          The sales/marketing people made quite a large mention about the SCO suit making it sound like a forgone conclusion that Linux would be dead in a matter of months.

          We're the largest business unit in my company and others looked to us for guidance on it. The presentation backfired and our CIO came back pretty hardened against MS.

          Basically he felt it was "Use our stuff b/c Linux will be gone and then you won't have a choice anyway".

          It's just the flip side of the coin...

      • Re:No worries... (Score:5, Interesting)

        by CustomDesigned ( 250089 ) <stuart@gathman.org> on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @10:36AM (#7802733) Homepage Journal
        Maybe not management, but my client got an invoice from SCO for their RedHat Linux installation. They called me (their consultant) and asked me what to do with it. I told them to ignore it and keep it for evidence in case it's needed when it's time to send Darl and friends to the slammer. He was surprised at this answer at first, but pointing him to the IBM and RedHat countersuits was very reassuring. Thanks, IBM and RedHat!
        • by roystgnr ( 4015 ) <roy AT stogners DOT org> on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @11:09AM (#7802917) Homepage
          Send a copy to your state's attorney general and the FTC, along with the information that you have never done business with or received a product from this company. Sending someone an invoice (assuming this is an invoice, not just one of SCO's dubious letters) for a product they purchased from someone else is illegal under federal and state laws - see Groklaw's "Open Letter to Darl McBride" for some references.

          I didn't think SCO had actually sent any invoices out - it hasn't made the news, and all the legal types I've seen comment have been pretty confident that SCO wouldn't send anything out without lots of "This is not an invoice" fine print to try and avoid legal consequences.
      • Re:No worries... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by shaitand ( 626655 )
        Nah, numbers work with management. Explaining to them that deploying linux will save them more money over the next 5yrs than SCO has will help quite a bit. Further explaining that even if SCO did have a case, they don't have the funds to keep the case running on the multiple legal fronts they are getting hit on will also help.

        If the case is settled quickly it will only be because SCO doesn't have one. If the case is dragged out, SCO can't afford to keep it up and will bankrupt itself trying to drop the
    • Re:No worries... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ajaxhess ( 735232 )
      We have over 1000 linux machines at my company and our biggest problem is finding the space to deploy more. We're getting rid of as many proprietary windows and irix machines as we can. I don't see anything the SCO does as a deterrent to our current roll out plans. Their claims of having found unlicensed code in Linux sounds a lot like the WMD claims of Bush and Blair. Hehe
      • Re:No worries... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        > We have over 1000 linux machines at my company and our biggest problem is finding the space to deploy more

        Get yourself a mainframe. One cabinet, thousands of linux images.
    • Re:No worries... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by utlemming ( 654269 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:50AM (#7802076) Homepage
      Well, anyone with half of a brain cell and the logic abilities of a four year old can figure out that the SCO lawsuit is a bunch of hog-wash. Seriously, any large scale deployments of Linux will not be deterred because of the cost. Who would get the money? If SCO does win (and we all know that SCO winning is like betting that a snow ball can survive five minute in hell) then they might be forced to pay out IF SCO finds out about the deployment before there is a conversion over to one of the BSD's. Also a compitent admin can hide a Linux machine from looking like a Linux machine on the internet.

      But all this does not really matter. What matters is that the public statments SCO has made do not add to there case but take away. IBM has been smart and kept their mouth shut. If you notice, the more SCO talks, the more bad press they get. When this whole fiasco started, SCO was blabbing away, and IBM kept quiet. Then IBM counter-sued and kept moving. While SCO started to cry foul. Now even the NYTimes has picked up on the merritless nature of their case. More and more editorials are not boading well for them. So even the non-geeks are getting into it.

      But still, Darl did get a place on the top 25 CEO's. And there is still some favorable press. However, by and by, it looks like SCO shot themselves in the foot by refusing to keep their mouth shut, substaniate their claims and by alienating a lot of people.

      • I just passed a kidney stone last week, I for one am hoping this SCO issues is MUCH less painful.
      • by Anonymous Coward
        "The more he talked about his honor the faster we counted the spoons..."
      • Re:No worries... (Score:3, Insightful)

        by FrenchyinCT ( 733872 )
        >>Also a compitent admin can hide a Linux machine from looking like a Linux machine on the internet.

        That doesn't help much. All it takes is one disgruntled employee to blow the whistle on them. That's how companies using unlicensed Microsoft products usually get busted.
      • Re:No worries... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by diersing ( 679767 )
        a compitent admin can hide a Linux machine from looking like a Linux machine on the internet

        Seriously, if this goes bad, how in the hell is SCO going to find Linux users to chase? I can only think of those that use enterpise solutions from Red Hat/SUSE and the like who have customer databases to suponea. If a company has some talented admins and stick to free distros from the net how will SCO or anyone else for that matter find them to collect from?, NetCraft? That is just one box, or a farm of boxes, e

      • The whole idea that end users would be liable to pay SCO anything for using Linux before the court case is resolved is just more SCO FUD. McBride and company are attempting to extort payment from Linux end users, and we are just giving this whole warped idea credibility by discussing it as if it could happen.

        And even if SCO were to somehow prove that they have IP in Linux, the fact that they refused to allow mitigation of the infringement is enough for a court to deny them compensation.

        IANAL, ICBW, &
      • Re:No worries... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by MosesJones ( 55544 )

        Who things it the Admins that matter here ? I mean really ? The reason why Linux continues to do well is perceived cost, and by that I mean be a real enterprise looking for decent support and get a "free" version of Linux... err no.

        The other reason is that the OS is a commodity item and the applications for the most part are running on application servers, probably running Java. So if SCO wins you either sign-up to Microsoft or pay the cash for Windows or Solaris x86.

        One interesting thing for Linux nex
    • Re:No worries... (Score:4, Interesting)

      by diersing ( 679767 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:03AM (#7802120)
      Although I havn't seen technical people have much luck with decision makers (unless of course they are consultants or technical sales reptiles), I tend toward the thought that pending litigation isn't a factor because, well.... its pending. The same reasons companies didn't jump from the MS ship during all their court involvment, I can't see anyone who has made the decision FOR Linux to jump ship over SCO's claims against IBM.

      What I'd like to know is, are there any companies who were planning Linux projects that are holding until after an SCO resolution?

    • Geez, I'm not even sure our IT department can spell Linux...We just loooooovvvvve filling Bill's pockets with money.

      Oh wait, gotta reboot....

      Dogu

      ps - as much as I hate to admit it, we've been switching most everything over to Win2000 and/or XP Pro and the overall reliability of workstations and servers has improved - we don't crash and burn nearly as often as we used to.
      • by Anonymous Coward
        ps - as much as I hate to admit it, we've been switching most everything over to Win2000 and/or XP Pro and the overall reliability of workstations and servers has improved - we don't crash and burn nearly as often as we used to.

        Wow, you crash much less than you used to. That's really nice. I've been running Linux on my home machine for nearly 10 years at this point. Except for two times when I misconfigured X back in the old days, my only crashes have been because of bad hardware. That's it. The Linu
      • No doubt about it, Win 2k and later OSs from Microsoft are indeed very stable.

        Linux is still cheaper tho. :-D

    • Re:No worries... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by cshark ( 673578 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:56AM (#7802293)
      Funny this should come up. I have a friend sells specialized unix-type systems to businesses. Before the SCO thing, his choice was FreeBSD. He has since switched to Linux for these systems because he thinks that the SCO claim to BSD has a more solid basis in fact than the linux claims.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:55AM (#7801929)
    OK this SCO stuff is not just being thrown about in the courtroom, it's being played in the media.

    Is this legal, for a company to go about talking crap that's as yet unproven?

    For a year now they've been throwing around allegations of suing anyone who uses Linux, claiming ownership of parts of Linux, and only involved in ONE court case so far. It seems awfully crap, to be honest. They're claiming the IP that may or may not be there is in another product and providing no proof. It's a year of this now!

    Is what they're doing legal, or pushing the boundaries of legality yet?
    • Sure there is a solution: major reform of the US legal system, preferably on similar lines to the German system. As long as the legal system is designed for lawyers to make money rather than to dispense quick justice, a rapid solution is in clear conflict with the objectives of the system.
  • My plan (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:56AM (#7801934)
    If this ever comes up at work, I'll give my legal team a copy of SCO's motion to dismiss the Redhat case where they state in a legal filing that Redhat has not violated their copyrights (hence, so how could we?) and then follow it up with the slam dunk of pointing out how Novell owns those same copyrights, so the entire matter is in dispute. Finally top it off with a "linux is not unix" and hasn't been proven in a court of law to be anyway.
  • by TheDarkener ( 198348 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:56AM (#7801935) Homepage
    Seriously. We run at least 10 mission-critical Linux boxes (Mostly Debian - DNS, E-Mail, FileServing, Backup, etc.) and I don't even think my boss knows about the SCO lawsuit. The people who don't read Slashdot don't have that much exposure to it. To the (smart) businesspeople, it just looks like some dying company is trying to salvage itself using bullying techniques. So, you always think of smart business people simplifying the details to get a bigger, better picture, right? Well... There ya go.
    • by goranb ( 209371 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:21AM (#7801997)
      I don't even think my boss knows about the SCO lawsuit

      Which means you dont have a clue about how he feels about the whole thing.
      If he would know about the lawsuit, he might think/act differently...
    • by delcielo ( 217760 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @09:42AM (#7802458) Journal
      We were one of the 1500 companies that received the original letter.

      Needless to say, not being an IP company, there was a lot of wrangling over how to proceed. Originally, the decision was made to cool off on Linux deployments until Legal could evaluate things. In an ironic little twist of fate, that meant that for a couple of projects we purchased IBM P-series boxes and AIX rather than deploying on Linux. I guess the thought was that IBM had a legal team and would protect AIX long after it bailed on Linux, or something along those lines.

      Lately, however, it's become a non-concern. The case has become so ridiculous that it's not treated seriously anymore.

      My suggestion to people who are having trouble in the office is to point the bosses to groklaw.net. Pamela has done such a fantastic job there. Her analyses are useful for lawyers, suits, and geeks all together. That's an amazing feat.

      Way to go Pamela!

  • Business as usual (Score:5, Informative)

    by Capitalisten ( 102859 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:57AM (#7801936) Homepage
    I work as sysadmin in a webhosting company and while we had some initial concerns it soon became obvious that this is a pump 'n dump scam - nothing else. We're deploying new Linux servers all the time and has actually increased the deployment rate since the lawsuit was made.
  • by mattjb0010 ( 724744 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:57AM (#7801938) Homepage
    you insensitive clod! Yeah, I know SCO are talking about BSD now, thus proving they really are crazy.
  • by L-s-L69 ( 700599 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @06:58AM (#7801940)
    A memo was sent by a manager (non techy) to my team leader (very techy) about the possibility of us having to pay linux license fees on our servers....his reaction "They can shove it" and "Im not f*cking paying anything to SCO".
    • A memo was sent by a manager (non techy) to my team leader (very techy) about the possibility of us having to pay linux license fees on our servers....his reaction "They can shove it" and "Im not f*cking paying anything to SCO".

      I would suggest that a better approach might be to reply, "Let's sit down with Legal (or our counsel on retainer) and talk it over". Prior to the meeting with Legal, forward the lawyer (barrister in your area?) both the plain and the annotated filings from Groklaw, plus some lin

      • He said his team leader was "very techy". Techies don't care much for meetings in general, and it's all very speculative at this point. Why would he want to throw money at the lawyers to talk it over at this point? To give the other manager face time, to lend validity to the claims, or to lower his perceived value to the company by showing a lack of understanding/planning/sureness about his department?

        Going to legal is going to be costly, put projects on hold, and ultimately result in having to wait and
  • by Ed Almos ( 584864 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:01AM (#7801951)
    Three AIX servers, thirty six Linux servers in two clusters, one happy team of system admins. If SCO ever come calling here they will be escorted from the building to the sound of our laughter.

    Ed
  • My company... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by gsperling ( 625206 ) * <slashdot&lawlynn,com> on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:01AM (#7801953)
    ...is currently running its primary business application on a Compaq Proliant 800 server box -- Pentium III 500 Mhz, 512MB RAM, and a 36GB SCSI drive. It's running SCO Unix, as well.

    The decision was made to upgrade that machine (before I was hired) since we're well over 60 employees strong. If they run a general ledger report, it brings the machine down to its knees.

    It was originally proposed to put the business application on a Linux machine. But, my manager, (the VP of IT) said that with all of the hoo-hah going on about Linux, he suggested against it. Instead, he bought a brand-spankin'-new HP 9000 box, running 11i.

    I'm a huge Linux proponent. I've been a Linux consultant for the past four years, and do EVERYTHING Linux. I was disappointed to hear that the whole SCO/Linux thing changed my VP's mind about Linux. The good news is that after I started with the company, I impressed upon the VP the importance of Linux, and what a crap-case SCO has.

    Our new mail server (slated to be built Q1 2004) will be running RHEL. I told him not to worry about the SCO business, they'll crawl under the carpet and die soon enough.

    I just take great satisfaction in knowing that we're replacing a SCO server with an HP 11i server! HA! Eat dirt, Darl.
    • Re:My company... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by SkArcher ( 676201 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:51AM (#7802081) Journal
      Now this is an important matter: although the rate of Linux adoption is not slowing down (in fact, it is speeding up), the fact that your company (and presumably others) have gone with business other than Linux means that Linux adoption would have been speeding up even faster.

      In terms of the Red Hat law suit, this is demonstrable damage to the Linux Business.
    • Re:My company... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by archen ( 447353 )
      At the company that I work at, we had a similar situation. We had a dual PIII 500 with the same specs. Many reports would take 5+ hours and the system would drag so slowly that others could hardly use the system (thus the reports could only be run at night). About two months after I started, we switched to Linux on a dual 1Ghz machine. Those same reports literally took 6-10 minutes and there was no slowdown on the rest of the system. A lot of people actually kept re-running reports because they would ex
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:04AM (#7801959)
    We're building an embedded device to be used by many of our troops -- think tens of thousands if not way more than that.

    We're just laughing at the SCO license as it will take our per unit cost from $0 to $699. Something about how they'll change their minds when 4ID shows up at their door.

    On the otherhand, this device was originally intended to run W2K on dual processors, so $699 may be cheap....
  • by SlashDread ( 38969 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:07AM (#7801960)
    We use and sell SCO to run progress db apps.

    We have made plans to switch away from it.

    "/Dread"
    • by ultrabot ( 200914 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:22AM (#7802001)
      We use and sell SCO to run progress db apps.

      We have made plans to switch away from it.


      Go ahead and do it. Progress DB (and 4GL env) works very well in Linux. I had a role in switcing a Progress environment from HP-UXen to HP ProLiants, and it was easy and trouble-free. It will be even easier for you, since you can keep on running on the same HW.

      Why on earth are you still running SCO, BTW? Do the machines carry some weird SW that is not found in Linux?
  • by Amiga Lover ( 708890 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:09AM (#7801965)
    I've always wondered if SCO Employees read slashdot, and if any are geek enough and annoyed enough at their employer's actions to comment. Anyone? Anyone who was or is employed there since this has all blown up in the last year? Any thoughts on what your employer is doing? Are you happy with them? agree with them? leaving them as damned soon as you find another job?

    I'm curious
    • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:18AM (#7801991)
      Here at SCO, there is a lot of discussion around the coffee machine about the whole lawsuit. Mostly it's been a distraction! There are a lot of mixed emotions - we've been loyal, and many of us trust our leaders. For job security, we hope that the path that management is going down has some merit, and will keep us employed for the long haul. At the same time, we read the slashdot perceptions - and it's no secret around the company that people think we are evil (or just douchebags). It doesn't "feel good", but then again it's better than being unemployed.

      No mass defections as far as I can tell.

      P.S. HI BOSS! Hope you don't figure out that I wrote this!

    • by Molina the Bofh ( 99621 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:06AM (#7802130) Homepage
      I don't think they even read their own e-mail. I *STILL* did not receive any kind of answer to this message I sent through their website, more than one month ago:

      I am running linux and have not paid any copyright to SCO. I'd like to know if you are willing to sue Brazilians running Linux. If so, I'd like to be sued by you, but I have no clue on how to proceed. What info do you need to sue me ? Please let me know and I'll promptly provide you all the requested info. I am running it in just one machine, but am willing to run it in more machines if it increases my chances of being sued. This is a serious question, please reply.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:10AM (#7801968)
    I work for a 15-person software development company, working in both Microsoft and Linux environments. Typical projects that we implement are 2-man-month fix-bid projects.

    One project that we just worked on, the knowledgable CIO was leaning toward Linux for a web application, and decided at the last minute to go Microsoft due to the lawsuit. (he has both Linux and MS Web Servers, and it was pretty much a toss-up in his mind, prior to the lawsuit.) This guy's a SHARP CIO in most every one of his decisions.

    But I agree with other comments; most people don't even know about it. I'll tell you, though, selling Microsoft projects is MUCH easier than selling Linux projects. The average non-technical business person has some exposure to MS and Windows. "Linux.. isn't that software that was written by a bunch of non-professional hobbists and Chinese Hackers in their spare time, and there's no support for it? What if something goes wrong? We're trying to run a mission critical application here, not some hobby system!"

    Oh well!

    • > We're trying to run a mission critical application here, not some hobby system!

      Funny how those PHB's think...

      On the one hand they want MS because, as you point out:
      > The average non-technical business person has some exposure to MS and Windows.

      The average non-technical business person wouldn't know how to Admin a server to save their life, yet they choose Windows because thats what THEY know. That's akin to choosing to jump off a mountain on a handglider over taking an airplane because they know
    • I'll tell you, though, selling Microsoft projects is MUCH easier than selling Linux projects. The average non-technical business person has some exposure to MS and Windows. "Linux.. isn't that software that was written by a bunch of non-professional hobbists and Chinese Hackers in their spare time, and there's no support for it? What if something goes wrong? We're trying to run a mission critical application here, not some hobby system!"

      And you pointed out that Linux is supported by such fly-by-night oper
  • On the contrary (Score:5, Interesting)

    by drsmithy ( 35869 ) <drsmithy@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:14AM (#7801976)
    I've actually managed to convince my boss to (slowly) phase out our (dozen-odd) OpenServer machines. We haven't decided what to replace them with yet (most likely RHEL AS or possibly Solaris - it has to be certified for Progress), but I'm happy to be moving away from OpenServer, which is not at all nice to admin.
    • Re:On the contrary (Score:3, Informative)

      by ultrabot ( 200914 )
      We haven't decided what to replace them with yet (most likely RHEL AS or possibly Solaris - it has to be certified for Progress),

      Well, if performance or future-proofness matter to you at all, pick up RHEL. Solaris is a dead end. BTW, I thought Progress was going to certify RHEL ES. What happened to that?
  • SCO's impact (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rf0 ( 159958 ) * <rghf@fsck.me.uk> on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:14AM (#7801977) Homepage
    Well from a few friends who use to work at SCO in the Dublin call center is that quite a few people have walked out over the Linux/SCO fiasco. So it looks like its hurting sco as well

    Rus
  • Hasn't bothered us (Score:3, Informative)

    by WolfTattoo ( 732427 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:15AM (#7801981)
    I can't speak for other companies, but FWIW the SCO FUD hasn't had one ounce of affect on the company I work for. Since the SCO BS began, we've actually increased our use of Linux and continued to look into where else it is a good fit in our enterprise. We've even added an additional AIX server. Maybe our plans will change once SCO has some actual legal settlements behind them, but until then we arn't buying into their Brooklyn Bridge offer.
  • by jquest ( 530244 ) * on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:16AM (#7801985)
    Among other things, I manage the servers for two different companies - both with existing Linux servers. Both are continuing to advance their Linux deployments without any major concerns.
  • by RU_on_weed ( 451255 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:16AM (#7801987)
    Aside from corporations , lets say SCO by some weird alignment of the stars, actually freakin won their case !! .. Would all linux lovers pay??

    albeit, that happening are slim, but would the linux community embrace this or would everyone turn their back on linux and find an alternative??

    What would you do ??
  • Chili? (Score:5, Funny)

    by avalys ( 221114 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:22AM (#7802005)
    When I first saw that headline, I thought "What the hell is a Linux Chili?"
    • Re:Chili? (Score:3, Funny)

      by mattjb0010 ( 724744 )
      When I first saw that headline, I thought "What the hell is a Linux Chili?"

      Well, I've heard about SCO giving people the shits...
  • Business as UNusual (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mr_z_beeblebrox ( 591077 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:32AM (#7802026) Journal
    The company I work for uses custom software programmed in Business BASIC. They have used this software running exclusively on SCO for around 20 years now. The MIS Director decided that McBrides attitudes on business, customer service and innovation are surely SCOs doom. I have spent the last month preparing my Red Hat server to take over in production I will implement it in Jan 04. No more SCO....ever. That was my guidance from above.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:32AM (#7802027)
    In a perverse sort of way, that SCO is having little effect on Linux deployment is NOT necessarily good news for Red Hat, as far as the declaratory judgement case in Delaware is concerned. That is because several of Red Hat's counts (false advertising, deceptive trade practices, unfair competition, tortious interference with prospective business opportunities, and trade libel and disparagement) appear to require Red Hat to prove actual damages.

    For example, paragraph 82 of the complaint reads:
    "SCO's statements are material and affect the decision as to whether a customer would purchase LINUX software or services."

    Paragraphs 93 and 94 read:
    "93. SCO's actions have caused and are causing irreparable harm to Red Hat, and unless permanently restrained and enjoined by this Court, such irreparable harm will continue.
    "94. Red Hat is entitled to actual damages for injuries sustained as a result of SCO's violations of the common law prohibiting unfair competition."

    If everyone is ignoring SCO's threats, and they have *no* effect on Linux deployment, then how could Red Hat show actual damages?

    I could envision Drew Carey saying in an episode of the American version of the TV show Who's Line Is It, Anyway: "The show where everything's made up and the points don't matter. That's right, the points don't matter. Just like SCO claiming copyright to Linux."

    So if you are on Red Hat's side in the Red Hat v. SCO lawsuit, articles like this are not necessarily good news.
    • It is good news, even if the case is thrown out and/or RedHat is award no real damages. This is because RedHat, in contrast to SCO, isn't suing as a means to make profit. They're suing to establish a ruling in their favor, and either of those rulings would be in their favor and would help with people's perceptions of Linux.
  • by Jacek Poplawski ( 223457 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:33AM (#7802029)
    AFAIK there are no SCO-related news on computer or business sites. Just Slashdot and few other linux-related sites constantly put these boring "news". Usually I skip them (both stories and comments), because there is really nothing interesting in it. SCO has nothing to offer, SCO will destroy nothing. SCO will change nothing. These "news" are worthless, just like soap opera.
  • by Eggplant62 ( 120514 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:33AM (#7802031)
    Who's afraid of the big bad SCO
    Big bad SCO, big bad SCO?
    Who's afraid of the big bad SCO?
    Mother F-ing Darl

    Who's afraid of the big bad SCO
    Big bad SCO, big bad SCO?
    Who's afraid of the big bad SCO?
    Mother F-ing Darl

    Darl is the windy wolf, the three little pigs are IBM, Redhat and Novell. Unfortunately, there were no straw or twigs used in this story, and the three little piggies are all laughing their asses off as Darl stands outside the door of the brick house, huffing and puffing about the validity of the GPL, the mysterious stolen code and Darl's hurt feelings because he tried a working relationship with IBM and it went sour.

    C'mon, Darl, let's see you huff and puff and blow the door down. I don't think you can do it!
  • Switched to FreeBSD (Score:3, Interesting)

    by shawn99452 ( 677488 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:39AM (#7802045)
    The company I work at recently switched an in-progress web application from Redhat Linux to FreeBSD soley because of the SCO thing. All the developers wanted to use Linux, but the project manager chose FreeBSD because he thought we might have to pay SCO money at some point.
    Stupid SCO...
    • All the developers wanted to use Linux, but the project manager chose FreeBSD because he thought we might have to pay SCO money at some point.
      Stupid SCO...


      Stupid manager. SCO has already publicly announced that it plans to go after FreeBSD next. Either the case has no merit (probability approaching unity), in which case deploying Linux would have been fine, or it does (probability almost but not quite equal to zero), in which case FreeBSD will be next. Followed by every other brand of UNIX out there (e
  • Some perspective... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GabrielStrange ( 628884 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:45AM (#7802057) Homepage
    You know, just to keep things in perspective, it's my understanding that to date, a lot more organizations have had their business disrupted when Microsoft decided to do a license review on them than have had their business disrupted by SCO trying to wage legal action.

    And yet no one seems too concerned about the possibility of Windows' market share being too severely affected by this.

    So I'd think it's only logical that there wouldn't be too much concern about Linux' future either.

  • not really (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Cheeze ( 12756 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:45AM (#7802058) Homepage
    I had the owner of the company i work for ask me about it, but he did so with a chuckle. i think most halfway-intelligent people will understand that without proof and without trial, SCO is just trying to make a buck before they go out of business. I think in (american) football, they call that a hail mary. They have nothing to lose by talking the talk, and walking the walk, and they have everything to gain. Their product is still stuck in the 80's and they have no money to bring it up to date.

    money (or lack of) does strange things to people.
  • SCO who? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by leitz ( 641854 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:48AM (#7802071) Journal
    I know of at least one company that closely watches the stock market. Their new standard is "If it can go on Linux, it will!"

    Since they have plans to decommission a few hundred servers in the upcoming year it looks like their decision will grow the Linux footprint there.

  • by chfriley ( 160627 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:49AM (#7802074) Homepage
    There were two more articles on SCO yesterday (Tuesday Dec 23, 2003) in Investor's Business Daily - one an interview (http://www.investors.com/editorial/tech01.asp?v=1 2/23) and one a new article (http://www.investors.com/editorial/tech.asp?v=12/ 23) are in Investor's Business Daily today. The interview has some interesting quotations from McBride, including "we don't deny that right [to give away their work through the GPL-he mentions it] at all. Anybody that wants to develop their work and give it away, God bless them." The interesting part about that is it seems at odds with previous statements he has made/implied regarding the GPL.

    The follow-up question *should* have been:
    "Given that you support the right to give away software under the GPL, once someone has done so, thereby accepting the terms of the GPL, how can one take the opposing position, after all, the terms don't allow one to 'un-release' under the GPL?"

    I had submitted this yesterday, and no doubt 3 or 4 copies of it will show up in the next week, but it is relevant now!
  • by torpor ( 458 ) <ibisumNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @07:53AM (#7802085) Homepage Journal
    ... and I'm not bothered in the slightest by this SCO FUD-festival.

    What's the worst case? We switch to FreeBSD or one of the other countless POSIX/C/C++/assembly-friendly kernels out there.

    The cat is out of the bag. Operating Systems are no longer so difficult to write that companies should expect to profit from them ...
  • by cpuffer_hammer ( 31542 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:11AM (#7802147) Homepage
    In conversation we came down to the basic idea that IBM knows what is going on. If IBM was in wrong they would have bought SCO. (like Intel bought DEC Alpha)
    So if IBM is fighting this then IBM is safe.

    If SCO was right they would be buying there stock not selling it.

    Follow the money.

    Charles Puffer

  • Pretty unknown (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Fr05t ( 69968 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:12AM (#7802152)
    Where I work I'm pretty much the only person that knows anything, or even cares about whats going on. Occasionally someone will ask about it and I will simply say there is no proof and SCO has been fighting giving any as hard as they can. Any time they have released what they call proof it turned out to be a complete farse that even a half wit could see. Then I email them a list of investment firms that deal in SCO stock and advise them to take their money and run.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:18AM (#7802167)
    Sorry for being an AC.

    My company is a recognizable international Bank, we currently so not have Linux deployed but the writing is in the wall:

    -Colleagues of mine are going to RH certification training.
    -We have an internal distribution that takes care of internal audit issues 9mostly security concerns) that is being tested an will be ready fro deployment soon.
    -The big heads that design this stuff have all Linux under their desks and some even in their laptops.
    -It seems (this is a rumour) like the company is evaluating Linux for the desktop. Yup, if we go that way it will be front page history on this site, thousend of Windows machines could go the way of the dodo.

    Nevertheless the company is holding on a bit just in case, but I guess it will not be for too long, and in any case part of the deployments will be using Suns's Linux offerings, nothing SCO can do about those.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:40AM (#7802232)
    I work at an ISR/Software house. We are both a SCO Partner and an advocate of Linux. Our software was hosted on AIX, Motorola's and SCO for many years. Four years ago we began shifting all our new business (and existing customers) over to RedHat and haven't had a SCO sale for what seems like a couple of years.

    Our existing customers have had little/no interest in the entire SCO/Linux debarcle, especially once we read them the gospel of Groklaw, and new customers don't seem that interested either - more the same old NT (Server 2003) vs. Unix question.

    Quite frankly we all agree with the general concensus that SCO have dropped some really bad acid although I'd say their paranoia was now justified - we are ALL out to get them now!

  • We're gearing up! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by markc ( 42459 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:45AM (#7802246) Homepage
    We just placed an order for 24 copies of RHAS and are about to plunk down some serious coin on IBM Blade frames... we're ripping out a Sun 6800 used for QM analysis, so the net will be to save tons o' cash... ;)

    I wouldn't say our company isn't concerned about the lawsuit, but our lawyers, er, Corporate Counsel, basically ripped up SCOs claims for our management's benefit.

    If this project is a success, we're looking to leverage Linux at every opportunity we get.
  • Bah! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Ender Ryan ( 79406 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:48AM (#7802258) Journal
    My boss(actually, he's also the CEO of the company) fired a quick email to me asking about the SCO lawsuit, and I simply explained my take on the situation. I pointed to the SCO insider trading, and I mentioned the fact that SCO isn't really SCO, they're Caldera, a failed Linux company.

    That was good enough for him.

    OTOH, I'm a bit wary of officially experimenting with kernel 2.6 here, simply because of the Sequent code in 2.6. Anyone have any insights into that?

  • by MrJerryNormandinSir ( 197432 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @08:52AM (#7802277)
    OK. I work as a consultant for serveral State agencies. I can tell you first hand that SCO is killing themselves Here is what's happening.
    IBM is triking back by discontinuing any DB2 or Informix support on SCO. So we are migrating those boxes to Linux/Oracle. The State Agencies I consult
    for use HPUX, AIX, Linux, and SCO. No new SCO boxes are going to be implemented, and we are migrating away from SCO. Most small hosts are going to be migrated to the Z series maingframe on a Linux partition.

    SCO will be dead in about a year.
  • by djh101010 ( 656795 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @09:01AM (#7802310) Homepage Journal
    I work for a large, fairly conservative insurance company. We got "the letter" from SCO back in (March?), and legal had us draw up a list of mission-critical servers running Linux, so we'd know our level of exposure.

    While legal and management seem to understand that it's a frivolous claim, they also correctly understand that being frivolous has never stopped the legal system from making dumb rulings. For reasons which are quite annoying, we are currently "on hold until this gets worked out" for several very interesting projects. This is real, folks. You know that SCO's claims are bullshit. I know that they're bullshit. Legal and management know they're bullshit, but one bad ruling and the waters get muddier for that much longer.

    Remember - if SCO gets bought out without being legally slapped down first, they still win in their mission to spread FUD about Linux and the GPL. I firmly believe this is their real goal, because Linux and the GPL threaten certain people who stand to lose a whole lot because of it.

    Bottom line, until SCO gets slapped down, my large employer isn't doing any more Linux projects. Solaris is an easy choice here, since we're using it widely already, but the cost savings to be realized are huge, if only we could put aside SCO's asinine behavior and get on with business.
  • by dyfet ( 154716 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @09:20AM (#7802379) Homepage
    The only place I have seen any impact in the SCO garbage has been isolated individuals, such as a certain nameless contract officer in my state government, who use it to further reinforce their own existing prejudices or bias against using fs/os solutions in general. However, in the larger view, these are people that probably will never really change their bias regardless of if there had been a SCO or not, and the best one can hope for is that they are retired or replaced over time.
  • by puzzled ( 12525 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @10:16AM (#7802630) Journal

    One of my customers is the third largest Ford dealership in the U.S. and the two that are bigger are in Dearborn and cater to Ford employees.

    This dealership has five FreeBSD boxes doing a variety of things, one Redhat box which snuck by me because of the better java support, and one lonely, fearful Open Server system that runs a single application provided by an outside vendor. I'm not allowed to dismantle that one, but I'm certain the vendor has strategic plans to move to some Linux distribution once SCO's stock collapses and they lose all their employees.

    I showed the in house admin OpenOffice.org a while back; M$ will be getting no more Office extortion dollars from those guys :-)

    We're going to roll out Knoppix to a couple of hundred desktops in 2004. They're just desktops, and I'm kind of a wimp, so I'll make sure it'll all run on a 2.2 kernel and we'll just keep on truckin'.

    Screw SCO. If you're really, really, really pissed about it, realize they got their money from M$ and start talking to anyone who will listen about OpenOffice.org - don't abuse the ground troops in a proxy war, get into their homeland and start burning crops and blowing up bridges ...

  • For my purposes... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by devphaeton ( 695736 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @10:20AM (#7802653)
    Do any slashdotters have experience with their companies pulling the plug on Linux projects due to the SCO trial or is it business as usual?"


    In the datacentre i work in, RH discontinuing its "free RedHat" is a bigger deal than all this. We aren't the least bit concerned about SCO. Just Fedora Core vs. Debian for our new servers. :oP
  • Chill is still there (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mclancy10006 ( 626420 ) * on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @10:40AM (#7802758)
    In short the answer is yes. SCOs lawsuit is slowing the deployment of Linux and other OSS in at least my enterprise

    The longer answer is below:

    I've read a bunch of these SCO Bad vs. Linux Good threads on /. for the last few months. I haven't really seen anyone point out the challenge that OSS puts into the corporate world in terms of how using software, particular mission critical software, is different now with OSS model then in the old traditional enterprise license model. The biggest area of concern as noted before is the IP infringement and that is what the SCO case fundamentally is about regardless of its particular merits (or lack there of).

    When a large enterprise goes down the road of building a critical business application (read as revenue producing) many times there is a contract negotiation that has an Indemnity clause to protect the company licensing the software from claims against intellectual property asserted by another party. The greatest risk for the mission critical application is that there could be an attempt at an injunctive action against the infringing parties (Not common, but it does happen anyone remember Amazon's one click and bn.com???). This then could mean the company licensing the software that infringes might have to shutdown their application. Not such a big deal if now I can't load those spiffy web applets in my browser to download MP3s or have to make two clicks to buy a book, but a real bummer if Im a bank and I cannot run my funds transfer system.

    In the case that a traditional software application infringes on the IP of another the indemnity clause gives the end user some protection. [Of course an indemnity clause from Joe & Bob development, Inc. doesnt really mean that much to Mucho-Huge-Bank-Corp, Inc., but one from Mega-PC-Soft, Inc. might.) In either case it also places a burden, because of the indemnity clause, on the original software developer to do a search of intellectual property to see if the is an infringement and seek to license from the IP owner that intellectual property or re-build the infringing model. If I am a software development shop and know my industry my legal consul can perform that task, as I know the internal mechanisms of the software applications I developed. You see this happen all the time in standards bodies when new specifications are being developed its called "identification of necessary claims" by the parties to the standard.

    The trick is this is very hard to do for an enterprise that is the end customer of an application. As such, all new software that use OSS either in the app layer or as the base OS is still being viewed with a hairy eye-ball and needs to have a "how do I move to something else" plan developed before it is deployed in my shop. This is manageable for something like Apache where I can replace it with another web server with a modest amount of trauma, but a whole different story when I need to rebuild from the ground up because I have to toss the operating system.

    My $0.02
  • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Wednesday December 24, 2003 @11:32AM (#7803037) Homepage
    This will only egg them on to come up with even more frantic claims. Some suggestions:
    • Claims ancient cuneiform tablets violate SCO copyrights. Sends vaguely threatening letters to Assyirians and Mesopotamians.
    • Elvis is the "mystery expert" who will prove header code belongs to SCO.
    • SCO claims Unix rights deeded to them by ruler of alien space babies.
    • Daryl announces that the orginal Unix code was delivered to SCO on gold tablets by an angel.
    • SCO claims open source software is plot to undermine the US economy hatched by Osama /bin/Ladin.

    Let the anal probing begin!

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