New Linux TPC-H Record Set 130
prostoalex writes: "New TPC-H world record for performance and scalability of database software on Linux platform has been set. The winner - Oracle 10g running on a four-node Lenovo Cluster Server DeepComp 6800, each with four Intel Itanium 2 1.3 GHz processors. Oracle also emphasizes that it's 3.5 times more performance than similar IBM DB2 benchmark. TPC-H benchmarks are available at TPC Web site."
Sun is 9th? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sun is 9th? (Score:2)
Speed is not the same thing as Stability. TPC-H is a test of speed.
Re:Sun is 9th? (Score:2)
Re:Sun is 9th? (Score:2)
Speed is not the same thing as Stability. TPC-H is a test of speed.
So, not being a db person, I'm curious if there are stability benchmarks?
Kind of like high TPC * high uptime?
Just like network vendors can quote error rates like 1 in 10e15 etc., I would imagine that db transactions could be stable like 1 in 10e13, etc. (except for the insurance claim forms I submit that get processed with error rates like 1 in 10e0).
Re:Sun is 9th? (Score:2)
Re:Sun is 9th? (Score:2)
Great... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great... (Score:4, Funny)
"Haha, you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous, is never get involved in a litigation war with a company who has more lawyers than Linden, Utah has farmers. But only slightly less well-known is this: Never go in against a meglomaniac when big bucks are on the line! Ahahahahaha! Ahahahaha! Ahahaha--" ~ Larry Elliston
Soko
Re:Great... (Score:1, Offtopic)
Re:Great... (Score:2)
While I imagine that involving Ellison would make the PR war a lot more interesting, when it comes to Lawyers SCO has already pretty much chosen to pick on the biggest kid on the block. IBM has a long history of using their (very large) legal department to great effect..
Still, it might be amusing to watch them try to do this on _even more_ fronts.
Hey guys, we WON already... (Score:3, Interesting)
Desktop Linux stories carry some interest to me, but on a server? That's old hat, old news, and very much humdrum.
This article really should be more about the cluster of Itanium chips, which actually determine the speed of the system, rather than "it runs Linux!" which in this case is largely irrelevant.
Linux is as responsible for the success of this as a dog is responsible for the bus that hit it. Similar results could easily be obtained, I'm sure, with any number of BSD variants, or other *nixes compiled to run on Itanium.
This would have been news 3 years ago, but today? Bah!
Re:Hey guys, we WON already... (Score:1)
Report to Analogy Class - immediately. HTH. HAND.
Soko
Won what? (Score:2)
So looking at the chart you can only conclude for linux that it rules supreme the 100gb section with double the score of the 2nd. Middle class is really a money choice and since they don't use one currency, how much is a yaun anyway, it is hard to compare. But if you wanna go top neither window
Oh but this IS significant (Score:5, Insightful)
This IS significant. It shows the suits that Linux can handle swap intensive tasks, even tho they don't know that is what it shows.
Re:Hey guys, we WON already... (Score:2)
Re:Hey guys, we WON already... (Score:1)
Ummm, it may be old hat and humdrum to you but THE WORD STILL NEEDS TO BE PUT OUT. Just because you're in the minority who is.. tired? of seeing Linux news does not mean the world is tired or should not conintue to see it. The best way to combat non-interest and non-knowledge by the general public is to keep putting the word in front of their noses. Keep saying "See! This is what Linux can do
Still No. 5 (Score:2)
Re:Still No. 5 (Score:1)
those oracle guys and their bag of tricks... (Score:4, Informative)
IBM appears to dominate the TPC-Hs at the top & bottom, with oracle owning it in the middle.
The only really interesting benchmark out there at the moment is the IBM DB2 ICE configuration - in which they spread db2 across dozens of low-end AMD Opteron dual-cpu servers. DB2 (and informix god bless them) partition differently than oracle - more like a database implementation of beowulf (that they've been doing for 8+ years). Way cheaper than anything from oracle, and you can toss up to 1000 servers into it. Their benchmark is in the 300 gbyte range, not 1000 - but it'll scale way beyond oracle, and is cheap for that kind of power: http://www.tpc.org/tpch/results/tpch_result_detai
Makes me wonder how many pcs I've got laying around the house...
Three types of clusters (Score:5, Informative)
1) shared nothing: in this, each computer is only connected to each other via simple IP network. no disks are shared. each machine serves part of data. these cluster doesn't work reliably when you have to aggregations. e.g. if one of the machine fails and you try to to "avg()" and if the data is spread across machines, the query would fail, since one of the machine is not available. most enterprise apps cannot work in this config without degradation. e.g. IBM study showed that 2 node cluster is slower and less reliable than 1 node system when running SAP.
IBM on windows and unix and MS uses this type of clustering (also called federated database approach or shared nothing approach).
2) shared disk between two computers: in this case, there are multiple machines and multiple disks. each disk is atleast connected to two computers. if one of the computer fails, other takes over. no mainstream database uses this mode, but it is used by hp-nonstop. still, each machine serves up part of the data and hence standard enterprise apps like SAP etc cannot take clustering advantage without lot of modification.
3) shared everything: in this, each disk is connected to all the machines in the cluster. any number of machines can fail and yet the system would keep running as long as atleast one machine is up. this is used by Oracle. all the machine sees all the data. standard apps like SAP etc can be run in this kind of configs with minor modification or no modification at all. this method is also used by IBM in their mainframe database (which outsells their windows and unix database by huge margine). most enterprise apps are deployed in this type of cluster configuration.
the approach one is simpler from hardware point of view. also, for database kernel writers, this is the easiest to implement. however, the user would need to break up data judiciously and spread acros s machines. also adding a node and removing a node will require re-partitioning of data. mostly only custom apps which are fully aware of your partitioning etc will be able to take advantage.
it is also easy to make it scale for simple custom app and so most of TPC-C benchmarks are published in this configuration.
approach 3 requires special shared disk system. the database implementation is very complex. the kernel writers have to worry about two computers simultaneously accessing disks or overwriting each others data etc. this is the thing that Oracle is pushing across all platforms and IBM is pushing for its mainframes.
approach 2 is similar to approach 1 except that it adds redundancy and hence is more reliable.
Re:Three types of clusters (Score:3, Informative)
most enterprise apps are deployed in [the shared everything] type of cluster configuration.
Really? Wow. You sure about that? I would
oracle and linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:oracle and linux (Score:1, Funny)
MySQL certainly isn't, but PostgreSQL can do anything Oracle can do. The only things it lacks are mindshare and access-style forms. This doesn't stop it from running the .org DNS registry, or many other "enterprise-level" tasks, and several projects are working on the access-style forms, including Kexi, PGAdmin3, and the newly liberated Rekall. Mindshare is a little more difficult, but given time, it will come.
Re:oracle and linux (Score:2)
oh please, you don't really believe that do you?
I mean, come on - postgesql is a great little database with a bright future...but it isn't ready to tackle large ERP or CRM implementations yet. Or even your typical 300 gbyte warehouse or data mart if you get right down to it...
Re:oracle and linux (Score:3, Informative)
Also the largest commercial database is about 23Tb and runs on Oracle.
What these numbers don't say anything about, though, is how much of these databases are taken up by BLOBs, and how much is actual field data. Having most of your data in BLOBs is really just making your database a fancy file system, since BLOBs reside in a different part of
Re:oracle and linux (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:oracle and linux (Score:2, Interesting)
Well not me - Oracle shafted me when Oracle for DOS was discontinued and my enterprise's direct mailing system was based on it. I was shafted by Oracle for OS/2 being discontinued when the inventry management system used in my enterprise was based on it, and shafted when Oracle Power Objects used for my factory management system died from Y2K problems.
I chose PostgreSQL over Oracle for my enterprise - Open source cannot die on you, be withdrawn, or have support withdrawn.
I wou
Re:oracle and linux (Score:1)
I'm sorry, but did serious people ever use Oracle for DOS? [Or Oracle for OS/2 for that matter?] I have done consultancy at many (>100) Oracle sites over the years and am yet to see either of those configurations being used in anger. Maybe you need to look at your organisation's OS selection policy before being so quick to blame companies like Oracle for pulling the plug...
I'm no great fan of Oracle. There IS lots wrong with Oracle. But be fair... pulling support for Oracle
Oracle and Open Source??? (Score:2, Insightful)
"...but linux can be a gateway drug to other Open Source/FREE software"
For now, I don't think this is a (serious) risk. Oracle has been distributing Apache now
Should we be happy or sad? (Score:5, Interesting)
The article didn't give much details, but how much of this performance is directly attributable to Linux (specifically Red Hat AS3)? What was the OS of the system it beat? Could that also have been Linux? How much of the performance can be attributed to the (suspiciously un-Beowulf) Lenovo cluster?
From what I know of benchmarks, the numbers given reflect real-world preformance, to within one order of magnitude.
At first, I thought, It's just a press release, big deal... But wait, they used Linux, so it must be another straw on the back of the camel knows as the Closed Source Business Model. But wait, it's running Oracle, so it must therefore be evil. Aieeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
Re:Should we be happy or sad? (Score:2)
This is important to counter MS FUD. Today Bill Gates said Linux is what Unix was in the 1970s: a perfectly reasonable operating system. [com.com]. Articles like this make it possible for other people (say Red Hat for example) to say that Bill Gates is full of shit.
Re:Should we be happy or sad? (Score:1)
These TPC reports (Score:4, Funny)
Re:These TPC reports (Score:1)
Re:Linux on Itanium is King of the Hill (Score:2)
Bravo
A good sign, but Terra Data? (Score:2)
I'm still impressed by teradata.
But what is MP-RAS 3.02.00 OS that the 3,000 GB Results on Terra Data ran on?
Its not a bad sign. (Score:2)
Look at the price difference though (Score:2)
Re:Look at the price difference though (Score:1)
Re:Look at the price difference though (Score:2)
Re:Look at the price difference though (Score:2)
Whooa (-1 Redundant)(Probably)(Hopefully =) (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Whooa (-1 Redundant)(Probably)(Hopefully =) (Score:1)
oh shit, I think someone already posted that.
What kind of marketing garbage is this crap?! (Score:5, Insightful)
- It's NOT the fastest TCP-H result, it's the fastest LINUX TCP-H 1000GB result. Actually it's the ONLY Linux TCP-H 1000GB result. 5th of 8 overall
- It's not even offering very good bang for your buck, coming in 5th of 8 for Price/QphH ($156 US according to today's currency exchange). The only systems it managed to beat are two outdated systems (both from HP) and an old price for a Fujitsu system, quoted in euro (the same system offers the same performance but a lower price on a newer entry quoted in US $).
In short, if anything this suggests that Linux is a BAD choice for this work! The performance isn't there and the cost is high.
Where things get REALLY bad though is the claim that this is "3.5 times faster" than a system running IBM's DB2. This is just 100% pure bullshit! The new Linux/Oracle system runs 1.3GHz Itanium2 processors and Oracle 10g. The HP/Windows/DB2 system runs 900MHz Xeon processors and runs DB2 7.2 (8.1 is current version). What's more, the Oracle/Linux system isn't even 3.5 times faster, it's just 3.5 times faster PER PROCESSOR! Great, your brand-spanking new Itanium2 is 3.5 times faster than four year old Xeon 900MHz chips. Whoopie!
Note: if you do want to see impressive Linux results, look at what IBM is doing with their Opteron cluster and DB2 running under SuSE Linux. They turned in the top results in the two TPC-H tests they entered (100GB and 300GB).
Re:What kind of marketing garbage is this crap?! (Score:2)
Someone remind me why Sun, Sparc, a
Re:What kind of marketing garbage is this crap?! (Score:1)
And that's why the best performance for your dollar in the low end, 100GB and 300GB databases, were a Sun V440 and V250, right? Did you even bother reading what I wrote, or the data available at the TPC site? The V880 was no slouch in price/performance for the Terabyte TPC either.
Re:What kind of marketing garbage is this crap?! (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What kind of marketing garbage is this crap?! (Score:5, Informative)
Xeons are fine chips, but the 900MHz Xeon is totally outdated. A new 2.8GHz XeonMP system with 2MB of L3 cache would probably also be about 3.5 times faster on this test than the old 900MHz Xeon.
memory limitations hurt xeon (Score:1)
So - even if xeon if fast, the impact of 1 gbyte of memory per cpu - vs 8+ more than makes up for it.
Re:What kind of marketing garbage is this crap?! (Score:2)
You know... the ones with 24MB of cache?
And on other linux benchmarking news... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:And on other linux benchmarking news... (Score:1)
Of course, Linux's NUMA optimizations are still in their infancy (they are pretty much non-existant in th
Re:And on other linux benchmarking news... (Score:1, Informative)
Obviously SGI had to modify the 2.4 kernel to achieve good performance and use extensive NUMA modifications. No, "using NUMA over internode communication link" doesn't kill your scalability. NASA isn't that stupid, neither is SGI.
The guys at SGI are currently testing the linux 2.6 kernel with a 512 processor system. They are saying (unsurprisingly) that it looks like it is a great improvement over 2.4.
Ahh, so that's it! (Score:5, Funny)
where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
Re:where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
Re:where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
But the point is not what you or me thought. The point is to see such benchmark results on the official TPC site. Or, if it (the space on that site) is expensive then somewherelese - but it must be based on TPC,
MySQL? (Score:1, Flamebait)
Re:MySQL? (Score:2)
Re:where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
Re:where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
More generally, I'd like to see the cost/performance comparison of PostgreSQL vs MySQL vs Oracle vs DB2 vs MS SQL 2000 for several types of applications, similar or the same as in TPC-C or TPC-D.
Re:where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
Re:where are PostgreSQL and MySQL? (Score:2)
Better summary (Score:4, Insightful)
Truthfully, I'm not a Sun fanboy (I just think they make cool shiny toys that cost a lot). Despite their corporate issues of late, they can still flex when it comes time to move things. Given any of those system built into a decent cluster (note that no pure Sun solutions were clustered), I think something worthwhile might show up.
Even if you disagree with me on those points though, you do have to agree that the /. article itself just sucked.
That's 3.5 times more performance per processor (Score:3, Informative)
I would expect a larger system to score lower on a pre-processor basis just from scaling issues, even if the processors were identical.
While the 3.5x ratio is impressive, the manner of it's announcement is very misleading.
IBM and Suse? (Score:2)
For other odd results, Oracle doesn't seem to go up as high as DB2 and Teradata. I thought Oracle was supposed to be the heavy hitter?
Anyone got a clue as to how the opensource databases would fare in these tests?
Re:IBM and Suse? (Score:1)
Re:IBM and Suse? (Score:2)
for those who don't read the full disclosure (Score:2, Interesting)
uhhh Xenix (Score:2)
Hmm they even wrote one years ago. 1980 to be exact. Some of us even remember our xenix floppies.
How about Xenix which could be argued quite well that it morphed into Sco.
MS has quite a bit of experience with Unix do not fool yourself. Even ported IE 4.0 over way back in the day.
Though MS has some evil qualities, to not overlook the fact they have many smart people working there. And they are not stupid.
Puto
China, hmmm... (Score:2)
Seriously, isn't Oracle involved in the Great Firewall of China?
What are they storing, a list of all the sites that AREN'T allowed to be viewed?
A list of the 1 billion hotmail addresses used by mainland Chinese?
It is nice that they've pushed the tech to a new level, but you've got to think...
Exchange Rate (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, try again.
holy shit! (Score:2)
Not so hot in OLTP (Score:1)
"The TPC-C benchmark continues to be a popular yardstick for comparing OLTP performance on various hardware and software configurations." i.e. for me to get cash from an ATM
There's only one <a href="http://www.tpc.org/tpcc/results/tpcc_result _ detail.asp?id=103090501">result</a> for TCP-C, which looks OK but not stunning. The <a href="http://www.tpc.org/results/FDR/TPCC/HP%20Int egrity%20rx567
Is this a duplicate? (Score:2)