Few Companies Change Linux Plans Despite SCO Suit 260
gaurab writes "A survey on Internetweek says 'SCO's Linux lawsuit and threats seem to be having little affect on IT managers except to make them angry. Fully 91 percent of people responding to an InternetWeek Reader Question said they will not change their Linux deployment plans as a result of SCO's actions.' The article is also available at Yahoo!"
Still not using linux (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, they still are not going to use linux :)
Re:Still not using linux (Score:4, Funny)
Good man (Score:2, Interesting)
From the linked article:
Eric O'Dell, senior systems and database administrator, Visionary Networks, Portland, Ore
This is just a sad case of a mismanaged company without any talent or innovation of its own using lawyers to parasitize the IT industry.
Well done sir. Very ballsy, and spot on. Now added to my favourites (sorry, a Scot, so I use the 'u' - I know hot picky you
Not too surprising.... (Score:3, Funny)
"All Linux users are thieves to begin with, we will crush them with our mighty IP!"
Re:Not too surprising.... (Score:2)
And the other 9%? (Score:5, Insightful)
(Event SCO itself said that Linux users are not going to be liable in any case).
Its sad that some people are actually buying into this Microsoft-backed FUD.
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:5, Funny)
Please be aware that some companies are not yet aware of this decision matrix, or, worse, have formulated their own that does not come to the same conclusion. Please spread the word.
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:5, Insightful)
But you have to understand, people like these aren't idiots. They have only heard the sound bites just like the vast majority of corporate world that isn't in IS/IT. They lack the background knowledge of the issue as well as the technical knowledge to be able to make an informed judgment.
I still don't believe this is Microsoft-backed FUD. I haven't read any statements from MS that say "see, we told you so." Sure Microsoft benefits, but so does Apple, UNIX vendors who don't want to see Linux takeover, and Amiga users... Yes, Amiga users, they just sit there so smug...
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:2)
The short answer, yes. Given licensing agreements provided by Red Hat, etc. the end user may be liable.
"(Event SCO itself said that Linux users are not going to be liable in any case)."
I believ SCO said they would not go after non-corporate linux users.
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is different from the contractual dispute with IBM. Even if they win this,
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:2, Interesting)
Sorry, but this is incorrect, SCO can choose NOT to sue whoever they like while retaining their right to sue others. To use a car analogy (the whole world can be explained with car analogies, right?) if I have two cars, and they get stolen by different people, I can choose not to press charges against one of them while still retaining my right to prosec
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:2)
"SCO will continue to honor all contractual obligations with existing customers including product updates, service, and support."
Now, the GPL (under which SCO released SCO Linux - even after they announced that Linux supposedly contai
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:4, Funny)
What are the other 9% thinking?
Probably a lot of those 9% could fall into these categories:
Re:And the other 9%? (Score:2)
It affected us for sure... :-( (Score:2, Informative)
Like this wasn't obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Like this wasn't obvious (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Like this wasn't obvious (Score:2)
The govt could have split them up you know.
Re:Like this wasn't obvious (Score:2)
Completely different scenarios here. Rambus never threatened to sue everyone who purchased DDR, nor did the DOJ threaten to sue (or jail) anyone who purchased a M$ product. SCO is actually going to users and saying that their use of the "offending" product might open the users themselves to action, this is a completely different ball of wax.
Your
Re:Like this wasn't obvious (Score:2)
Well, isn't this the whole point of law and politics? Lawyers get people riled, then start collecting money. An increase in the amount of anger and hate in the world means more power for politicians. The goal of the law suit is to make the lawyers at the SCO Group shell company rich.
Re:Like this wasn't obvious (Score:2)
Re:Like this wasn't obvious (Score:2)
When MS was being tried, the government didn't threaten to sue everyone using their products.
SCO has threatened to sue the end users. Whether that is ever going to happen, is a completely different issue..
9% is a lot (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:9% is a lot (Score:2)
After all, 'change' in this case doesn't have to mean that it is a bad change.
Re:9% is a lot (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, we're reducing our Linux deployment, eliminating Linux entirely -- or at least we're thinking about it: 9 percent.
In other news, one company [dogdoo.com] has seen a huge increase in orders requested for SCO headquarters.
Re:9% is a lot (Score:5, Funny)
Re:9% is a lot (Score:2)
not.
Re:9% is a lot (Score:5, Interesting)
I believe it. I was told that I couldn't even test Hot Dog Pro as an HTML editor, because the name is too silly. (Sausage is also a silly name for a serious company) Dreamweaver was the choice, chosen before testing, because it sounded more "professional", and had magazine ads and reviews.
that's why I run Linux (Score:3, Funny)
Re:9% is a lot (Score:3, Informative)
What gets me, however, is that the lawsuit filed by SCO doesn't talk about the same code being anywhere. It talks about technologies that IBM and its subsideraries developed for "UNIX" systems.
Correct if I am wrong, but the whole suit is about the original license from ATT that states that they own
Re:9% is a lot (Score:3, Insightful)
However, SCO also claims that code has been copied directly from Unix to Linux, and that Linux is thus tainted. SCO apparently sent letters to 1500 Linux customers warning them that they may be using code which is owned by SCO. That is the basis of the concerns of Linux users. It's true that there is no actual lawsuit yet about this code.
I continue to expect S
Re:9% is a lot (Score:5, Interesting)
Before SCO brought up their little vendetta against Linux, I had two PCs at home running Linux, and one at work dual booting.
So, yeah, it did change my plans. I was content to use my lowly three systems of Linux, but by the years end, I'll have at least 55 running Linux, all but 4 will be NOTHING but Linux!
What do you think about that, Daryl??
Funny (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess that goes to show you - 56.2% of all statistics are untrue.
Re:Funny (Score:3, Interesting)
Yep... don't go around thinking that 9% is tiny... it's not!
That means that if there are 100,000 companies considering Linux, 9,000 of them have bought the SCO FUD and are running away screaming.
Where I work, we sit back and watch, because we all knew the day would come when something and staggeringly brilliant as de-commoditizing sof
Re:Funny (Score:2)
Re:Funny (Score:2)
Re:Funny (Score:2)
Re:Funny (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure - some will be affected by this issue. But are these cases a true indication of the impact to the IT environment?
I've seen the same posts complaining about forced migration and interupted plans based on fear. But it wasn't until yesterd
Incomplete Data (Score:5, Insightful)
Just an obvious point - it's still better than a lot of people saying that they plan to stop using it.
The principle of least resistance (Score:5, Informative)
If SCO wins, we'll worry about changing our approach. Since this hasn't occurred, we're not going to act like it already has.
Why would they do anything else? Let's start laying our developers and support teams off because SCO MIGHT be able to shut us down.
Even if SCO wins, the Linux corporations will likely find another path to offer what they've offered in the past: a quality software alternative to windows.
Is this really news?
Uh... (Score:4, Insightful)
BTW, yeah, yeah; If SCO wins, there will be an appeal. However, the damage is already done. What business is going to wait and rely on a higher court overturning the ruling?
Re:Uh... (Score:4, Insightful)
If SCO wins, SCO has won the SCO vs. IBM case over trade secrets. No other cases exist yet. They can't win anyone else unless they sue. Also, they can't sue anyone else about those specific trade secret violations. They must come up with something else.
I believe that the best counterargument to speculation around "what if SCO is right?" is "what if SCO is right about what?" They have made so many accusations (some of which are clearly false or conflicting with each other) that it doesn't make any sense to figure out what they're really about to do.
SCO can sue Linux kernel developers. Someone else can sue Microsoft Windows developers for something. Also, BSD developers and MacOS developers can be sued too as well as Solaris and QNX developers. But until there's a real lawsuit with real evidence, there's no point in worrying.
Re:Uh... (Score:2)
Where I work... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Where I work... (Score:2)
Re:Where I work... (Score:3, Interesting)
9 out of 10 Companies Agree... (Score:2, Funny)
Slashdot really does get around!
Remeber XENIX? (Score:2, Funny)
Yeah, it changed our plans... (Score:2, Funny)
just ask the RIAA (Score:5, Interesting)
RIAA: ignored music piracy until it was too late. now is trying to regain ground.
SCO: Missed the technology boom, now trying to regain ground.
How do EITHER of these mindless organizations think they will succeed?
-n
Re:just ask the RIAA (Score:2)
Re:just ask the RIAA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:just ask the RIAA (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems to me that they realized they've already failed. Apparently they don't have better jobs available, so they're putting on a big show to distract everyone from they fact that they have no viable product and no useful services.
This is a testament... (Score:5, Insightful)
that the kind of manager that would implement an
open source solution for a problem would possess.
It's obvious that when you are dealing with a
company already smart enough to pursue a GNU/Linux
solution for a problem, they are going to be smart
enough to see through SCO's obvious bullshit.
Like cigarette companies. (Score:3, Insightful)
In public SCO will say you should never use Linux . In court, sued for defamation, they will say their advice had no effect.
Re:Like cigarette companies. (Score:5, Funny)
Who's giving this example, where do I sign up, and do I have to sign an NDA?
Subject never came up (Score:5, Informative)
read the survey! (Score:5, Funny)
of that %19, %100 said noone noticed, even when the SCSI disks gave a last, belated whine and emitted the magic smoke.
another %6 answered that, after numerous beers on a friday night, they had actually urinated on their last remaining SCO server.
of those %6, %35 admitted to accidentally hitting the power supply.
of that %35, %15 said it was the best thrill they had in the past year. The other %65 just clutched their genitalia while answering the question.
What most Linux-using companies think of SCO (Score:2, Funny)
What's with these losers threatening us
Why won't they get a clue
Why are they wasting those legal fees
Instead of inventing something new
Ooh ooh, IBM they dissed
Ooh ooh, now they're really pissed
Ooh ooh... They picked the wrong foe!
SCO: what a bunch of fucking morons
Oh oh fuck their bogus IP claims
I don't care what they say about suing
i don't care 'bout that
Re:read the survey! (Score:2)
%myResponse = (
troll => 'you've been fed, now fuck off',
);
How Statistics Lie (Score:5, Insightful)
That means that 9% WILL.
It's probable, based on the nature of the case, that they will not be changing their plans in favor of linux.
Also, of the remaining 91%, how many of them planned to not use Linux at all? If only 9% of IT managers planned to use Linux in the first place, and now 9% of them are changing their minds, then that would indicate that Linux is about to get wiped out. That can't be the case either, but it's one possible interpretation of the figures.
Bottom line: Statistics can be used to make convincing lies. Most surveys are unscientific in the extreme. And SCOX is still a bunch of bastards.
How statistics really lie (Score:2)
Re:How statistics really lie (Score:2)
I think that you're right about the part where shops that have made the jump to Linux are unlikely to be scared off by this. Only one of the responses that they posted was a strong 'We're scared of looking like theives' response, and that was from a company that dealt with lots of financial data and could not affor
Re:How Statistics Lie (Score:2)
For that matter, go back and read what I posted again. I'm not claiming a damn thing except that these numbers don't mean anything.
Re:How Statistics Lie (Score:2)
However, the article is weak because it doesn't indicate how many respondants haven't changed their Linux plans because they didn't have any in the first place, it doesn't say anything about the kinds of shops that are responding (you wouldn't expect somewhere that's 100% COBOL on big iron to even care).
You also can't call the sample truly random because respons
Re:How Statistics Lie (Score:2)
2a) 'solicited' makes it not-random? I'd never run a survey standing on a corner hoping people will tell me their opinion on the topic I'm concerned about. I'm pretty sure I have to 'solici
Its definitely affecting out decisions! (Score:5, Funny)
Actually...us too. (Score:3, Funny)
One of my current projects involves moving some old code from Siemens off of SCO boxes, and moving it onto Linux boxes so that we can permanently get rid of SCO. Muahaha. I felt so dirty after touching that SCO machine yesterday though. Eww.
Mike.
Re:Actually...us too. (Score:2)
(ew)
Some code is bound to look the same? (Score:4, Interesting)
Not to troll, but if he's referring to typical for(i=0; ;i++) loops and the like, I'm pretty certain SCO's not dumb enough to claim such one-liner code fragments are theirs.
You can claim that there are only a limited number of ways to do things only for small parts of code, but SCO was claiming it for large functions, etc...for which his argument falls through.
Re:Some code is bound to look the same? (Score:2)
If you ask me, it'll come out in court being:
{
and
}
Which, for crying out loud! This is blatant IP infringement.
I still say SCO is being a pissyhead about it. When the hell IS the court case anyways so that we can see all this "evidence" of which they speak?
And since when is IBM responsible for the "Central module" of linux? WHAT THE HELL IS THE CENTRAL MODULE?
Re:Some code is bound to look the same? (Score:2, Funny)
No, SCO claims ownership of the 'Hello, World' program. Since this is the first program anyone ever runs, all other programs therefore derive from 'Hello, World' and therefore are the IP of SCO.
Larger functions (Score:2)
I guess it depends on what the functions are doing. If they're common stuff like, say, a binary search function or extensions to string handling, then the functions will be similar because the algorithms are.
This doesn't mean very much for the SCO suit... (Score:3, Interesting)
Just because many companies sticking to Linux won't give us any victory over SCO.
We all know that IT managers are often reported to understand both technical and legal issues very little. Many of the might not have realized the true extend of SCO's claims - Linux as a derivative work of AT&T unix belongs to SCO - and the possible implications - if SCO wins they can eliminate all Linux licences.
I doubt that SCO will be successful but a suitably fucked court ruling can surprise us all. You must admit that the missing reliability of the US legal system has reached a point at which the ruling a relatively random and useful as e.g. a court decision in Liberia. The most annoying problem is that in Liberia you can circumvent these issues by either bribing the judge or bringing your collection of AK-74s to the court which is still rather ill advised in the US.
Therefore I would never trust any sensible outcome in the US and with a responsible position in IT I would switch to FreeBSD as soon as possible. Most Linux software runs on FreeBSD anyways, so no real problem there.
How to Present It. (Score:2, Interesting)
"At this point you KNOW you'll have to pay Microsoft. You only have to pay for Linux IF SCO first manages to beat IBM's lawyers in court, which is unlikely and will take a minimum of five years, AND if they are then successful in suing whatever Linux company we purchase services from, which is also unlikely, because during discovery, kernal maintainers will learn which code SCO claims is thei
I don't care... (Score:3, Insightful)
SCO (Score:2, Funny)
SCO
Linux
Lawsuit
Furthermore, SCO, SCO, GNU/SCO, IBM, Unix, Linux, patents, damn patents, damn the patents, let them eat patents. In other news:
Horse assaulted posmortem
Red cross finds new hemoglobin source in rock quarry
The real message (Score:2, Insightful)
I am also guessing someday we will find that Microsoft offered it's legal department to help SCO with this. They lose nothing, and COULD eliminate two competitors with one stroke.
Recent Poll (Score:4, Funny)
In other news, Slashdot editors still insist that if you're using these numbers for anything meaningful, you're insane.
No more unixware (Score:3, Interesting)
Dead right (Score:2)
Except for the kit that needs to speak to the rest of the world, of course.
Flood fill (Score:3, Interesting)
In the meantime, Linux will just continue quietly flood filling in the background, eating up everything, almost completely unnoticed by the management.
SCO are irrelevant, Microsoft are irrelevant, IBM are irrelevant, RedHat are irrelevant, SuSE are irrelevant, large top down Linux projects are also irrelevant, they make up a tiny tiny percentage of Linux usage.
The Important thing here is... (Score:3, Insightful)
What did you think they would do? (Score:2)
Yeah, just like companies all quaked in fear over the GIF tax.
SCO has earned eternal status as a punchline of rude jokes.
Liability for end-users of IP-tainted products? (Score:4, Insightful)
If I buy a CD recorded by a musician who has "sampled" another's song and incorporated in his track, surely I cannot be held liable for this, or even required to return the CD.
If my copy of the New York Times includes and article which the author has plaigarized from another source, I doubt any legal authority is going to "recall" my newspaper, or prosecute me for my quarter investment.
These seem more directly pertinent than the Mazda-Ford analogy, as a Linux distro seems more like a publication than a physical product, though the same principle, I would think, applies.
Perhaps the issue grows slightly murkier in the case of a downloaded copy of Linux; in this case conceivably the argument could be made that the user has personally copied a copyrighted chunk of code. Maybe for thorough self-protection, Linux sysadmins would be best advised to buy an off-the-shelf distro of Linux, to point at if the lawyers ever show up.
If this threat/argument from SCO ends up being found baseless and/or absurd, aren't they in the position of having interfered with the business of several thousand companies via their letters, baselessly and in pursuit of money, i.e. "extortion"?
Re:Possession vs use (Score:2, Insightful)
Continuing my original analogy, despite the fact that recent copies of the New York Times have (as I recall) demonstrably contained plaigarized material, I do not believe the original copyright owner even can demand that I give it back or cease to "use" it. Nor does this make any of the millions of readers outlaws.
No, but we're getting rid of all 2500 AIX boxes! (Score:5, Funny)
The PHBs got together to discuss it and agreed with us and gave us 30 + 2 days to get it done. We then had to explain the differences between 'day' and 'year', which took a long time because to explain 'day', we had to first get them to understand the difference between 'light' and 'dark'. Boy were they excited when they figured out there actually was a reason behind wearing their stylish wrist devices!!
Then we tangented off to several meeting about finding a reason for the stylish things they tie around their necks. Never were able to figure that one out, even with all us techies there to assist.
But, we are now allowed to come to work naked as long as we have a stylish wrist device!
We now have 13 days remaining to make the switch from AIX. We are simply moving everything to Linux, but putting up a custom message that says "SuperOS" instead of "Linux" or "AIX" and they seem nice and calm again.
Stupid fux...
Read the Stat The Other Way (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Read the Stat The Other Way (Score:2)
The actual statistic:
I suspect that "thinking about it" makes up the majority of that nine percent.
I read it a bit differently. (Score:3, Interesting)
to one of the BSD's.
Note BSD, not microsoft, but *BSD.
I find it quite ironic that the *BSDs, which lost a lot of time and energy and publicity due to the USL suit in the '90s, which ended up favouring Linux, may be the favoured ones in this round of FUD attacks by dead_but_sueing_to_swim crowd.
"hard-faced two word gesture"? (Score:2)
and btw, that should be "hard-faced three word gesture". Obviously.
Choice - consumer choice!!! (Score:2)
SCO and Microsoft and anyone else are not going to take choice away from people. And anyone complaining about consumers having such a choice only shows the true nature of the complainers.
Ill Storms Brewing... (Score:3)
So this guy's talking to himself now? These days are dark.
Yes, but these are REAL people (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Yes, but these are REAL people (Score:4, Insightful)
These are people responding to an internet poll. It doesn't matter what sort of business decisions the respondents control. Polls taken over the Internet have zero scientific validity. They can be rigged. They can be stuffed with ballots. People who vote will forward the poll to people who see the issue the way they do.
Above all, they aren't taking a random sample of the relevant population. People self-select. Even barring all the other problems, this one alone destroys the validity of the poll.
If you're trying to use this poll to figure out how SCO is doing in the court of public opinion, you may as well fall back on tea leaves.
Flaming?! (Score:3, Funny)
Woah, I thought that the Internet was supposed to be relatively anonymous... I don't need to know your sexual orientation.
Re:9%? Woah! (Score:2)
What the survey does indicate is that 91% of respondents aren't even thinking about reducing Linux deployment, much less deciding to do so.
Re:Article (Score:2)
Essentially, they are doing the same thing. SCO just doesn't have its hands in as many congressmen's pockets.
Re:LINUX IS DEAD!! Long live BSD! (Score:3, Funny)
Bwhahahahahaahahaahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahaha
FreeBSD alive. What a joke.
GJC