Wal-Mart Lindows PCs Selling Well 702
andyring writes "CNN.com is reporting that sales of the $199 PCs have exceeded expectations. Although CNN terms them "full fledged, if low power," it seems customers don'd mind all that much if their computer does not run Windows and doesn't carry an Intel processor. Slashdot covered two reviews of those machines July 4."
And in Europe? (Score:2, Interesting)
Why the things here are so much expensive than in the US?
Re:And in Europe? (Score:2)
Re:And in Europe? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:And in Europe? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:And in Europe? (Score:3, Funny)
>10% is easy pimpin' out of big suites and using
>the botton 90% as sex slaves for goatse
>experiments.
Uh, it *is* something like that. If you look at how well-off those 10% actually are, the difference between the living of the 90% and a herd of goats is statistically insignificant.
Comment removed (Score:5, Troll)
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Insightful)
but that is not what is important. At least not to me, it is surely of importance to M$ but not because of the pirated version of XP but because people may start to realize it is possible to buy PC's without Windows on it.
It is of HUGE significance that PC's are going to be sold at Wal-Mart without Windows period. MS thought they had won this war. Doesn't matter if the setup sux or not. Because if a place as common as Wal-Mart is selling non MS PC's it is a huge deal to them. It is the smart thing to do for Wal-Mart and that is why Wal-Mart rox. They are not afraid to take some chances.
The big PC dealers all got too lazy to sell PC's without doze. This may get them to rethink that strategy.
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe we're giving the consumer too much credit? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe they're also not smart enough to realize that they're getting a computer without Windows? If we don't trust the average purchaser to know that just because a P4 has a higher clock rate than an Athlon that it isn't necessarily faster, why would we expect them to realize whether the computer they're buying to send email has windows or lindows? To them it's a thing that sends email.
The average user probably views the OS and the computer with the same level of separation most of us assign to the transport and network layers.
Basically indistinguishable parts of the thing you use to get a web page.
Re:Maybe we're giving the consumer too much credit (Score:5, Insightful)
What is with the *hatred* of Wal-Mart (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What is with the *hatred* of Wal-Mart (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't know why others hate them, but I hate them for several reasons -- (1) because they're simply big, cold, and impersonal, and just not pleasant to be in, but also (2) because they're a particularly extreme example of the increasing homogenization of culture in the U.S., and the obsession with low-price at the expense of any other measure of value (such as pleasant stores).
Sure, when a walmart bulldozes into town, they offer very good prices, a pretty reasonable selection of merchandise, and a certain sort of convenience. Consumers like this.
They like it so much, that they shop at walmart instead of old-Joe's local crap-n-stuff store (established 1837) to get that extra 5% off, and because Joe hasn't updated some of his inventory since 1853. Unless Joe is pretty clever, he probably then goes out of business.
`Good riddance' a lot of people think, Joe's place was always pretty lame anyway.
After a few years, they notice that the community seems somehow colder and more impersonal than it used to. Is it just nostalgia? Probably some of it is -- but I'll bet part of it is Joe.
Granted this has been going on for a long time, and Walmart's just more noticable because they're very good at it. Probably not much could be done to save old Joe, but I really hope there's a new generation of Joes out there that hate walmart like I do, and who have enough business accumen to somehow replace some of what has been lost. Maybe they can use some of the tools Walmart uses (e.g., computer technology), but still manage to make something local instead of a cookie-cutter outlet of a vast corporation.
Personally I try to spend my money in ways that reflect what I said above -- I'll shop a store that I like, even if it costs more, because I know my money is paying for more than just the physical product.
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Informative)
1 - Make a WalMart version of the game.
2 - Alter the game to get a T reating.
3 - Tell Walmart to shove it.
id software has already tiold Walmart to shove it. They know that people will buy their games no matter what.
Most other game publishers are not in the financial position that id software is. They end up taking options 1 or 2. That XXX bike game removed all of the nudity in order to get a T rating and thus avoid the WalMart blacklist. 3DRealms sold a Walmart version of Duke Nukem 3D in order to avoid the WalMart blackout.
While I believe that retailors have the right to not carry products they do not want, I also see that WalMart has enough market pull to affect the purchasing choices that even non-WalMart shoppers have.
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Insightful)
These things sell well for the same reason that Deer Hunter is a bestselling game and Microsoft became an empire selling Windows:
For the vast majority of people, price is way more important than quality. If it's cheap and reasonably useable, people will buy it in large numbers.
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean, no matter how good your product may be, if it's not fighting in the $200 and under price tag, most people will not be able to afford it. Even if 10000^10000 times faster, it's still innacesible.
Of course, up until now these people could only get a used PC, or they had to make a mayor effort or do with less computers that they wanted or have a friend that custom built them one as cheap as possible.
The $200 lines opens up a huge market. "Hey, I have $200, why not buy this new PC?".
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I may seem like a troll for saying this (Score:3, Interesting)
Well no matter how rich Bill Gates is, MS is #72 on the Fortune 500 list and Wal-Mart is #1. Can't argue with results.
There are great! (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:There are great! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:There are great! (Score:2, Interesting)
Speaking of AOL (Score:5, Insightful)
YES! (Score:2)
The advantages of a Wal-Mart cheapbox (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll admit I am still tempted to get one of these to set up a cheap cluster with my other Linux box which is currently running as a minor utility server. The fact that the box lacks a monitor is no detriment in my case.
Cheap firewall. (Score:4, Interesting)
$199, no monitor, low-power 800 MHz processor, onboard 10/100 ethernet, one empty slot.
I'm tempted to get one, stuff a second ethernet adapter into the empty slot, and configure up a cheaper firewall (swapping the $800 HP machine currently performing that function into a job better suited to it's capabilities).
For those too busy to go to the website (Score:4, Informative)
from WalMart.com: [walmart.com]
VIA C3 800 MHz processor offers comparable performance to the 800 MHz Celeron processor
133 MHz frontside bus
128 MB SDRAM, expandable to 1 GB
133 MHz memory speed
10 GB Ultra-ATA 100 hard drive, 5400 rpm (total accessible capacity varies depending on operating environment)
52x CD-ROM drive
Up to 8 MB shared video memory
Integrated AC '97 CODEC audio
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet connection
Micro ATX tower case (14"D x 7"W x 14"H)
Available drive bays: 5.25-inch external, 3.5-inch external
Available PCI slot
High-speed serial port
Parallel port
2 front and 2 rear USB ports
Game port
104-key keyboard
2-button mouse with wheel
Audio port (line-in, line-out, mic-in)
Stereo speakers
1-year warranty, return to manufacturer
In an unrelated note, is anyone but me creeped out by the snobbery in this discussion? "Well, Billy Bob and his six-pack friends may shop at Wal-Mart, but me and my 37337 posse are too hip for that!" Sheesh. Shatner may have said it best, "Get a life."
The Bottom Line (Score:5, Insightful)
But my other question is this: I wonder how many of the computers have copies of windows installed on them by the end user? Be it transfered (old PC doesn't work, so put Win95 on this new one) or coppied.
Bingo! (Score:5, Insightful)
My grand-dad went to buy a computer at a big chain store. He just wanted to look around on the web and email some friends/family. The sales droid tried to sell him a P4 2Ghz with all the bells and whistles. I ended up putting to gether a Duron 1.2G for $250 that does all he wants to do. Unless you are a big game freak or a geek (like most of us), people just don't need that much computing power.
Confirmation from a "non-geek" (Re:Bingo!) (Score:5, Insightful)
OK, I'm a physician, not a techie (I read slashdot because it's so hard to find anything else intelligent to read). So perhaps I can provide the "Joe Schmoe" perspective.
I wanted to confirm what people are saying about the average Joe Schmoe not needing computer power. I'm still running an AMD K6 200 MHz processor from 1997. I have a DSL connection and Win 98SE (shudder). I surf the web with IE6, run Yahoo! Messenger, and check email with Eudora, typically all at once, often while also playing bridge on M$N Zone (sorry, M$-haters, it's the best free bridge I've found!).
I couldn't sell this box for anything, let alone $200, yet it does everything I want to do. Sure, it slows down a bit when I use everything at once, but not enough to go out and spend money. If you're a Joe Schmoe like me.
So you're right. The common man doesn't need a monster CPU, etc. That being said, don't forget that usability is key. Most people will be completely unable to surf the web and send email if they have to do too much more than plug it in, turn it on, and follow some very user-friendly instructions. If the Lindows box can't do this, it's not going to do very well.
So, can it? I hear people saying that it doesn't even come with a monitor?
Re:Confirmation from a "non-geek" (Re:Bingo!) (Score:5, Funny)
Keep searching...
Yes, intelligent! (Re:Re:Confirmation from...) (Score:4, Insightful)
I said: I read slashdot because it's so hard to find anything else intelligent to read.
People replied: And Slashdot intelligent? Haw.... It's worse out there on the Internet than we thought.... Keep searching...
Wow, that was a robust response. No kidding, guys&gals. Without the time or patience to surf, I used to have to tolerate the big-media news feeds, who seem to think that Winona Ryder Busted for Shoplifting is big news.
Admittedly, to refine the /. content, I read at a +3 threshold with -2 for Funny and +1 for Insightful. I only lower the threshold if a thread interests me enough to consider replying (so that I won't be redundant). Try those settings for yourself; suddenly, /. seems pretty damn smart.
P.S. Sorry if this is offtopic; mod me down if you must. I know that those replies were just friendly jesting, but the topic touched a nerve. I hate stupidity.
Re:Confirmation from a "non-geek" (Re:Bingo!) (Score:3, Interesting)
Most 'cheap' PCs don't. That has to be bought seperate. The monitor is going to double your cost tho.
not. you can find pleny of decent used 17" monitors (and that's probably overkill for an email/websurfing system) for $20-$80. I even came across someone selling 21" sun monitors for $50 each last week.
well, no windows when they are sold (Score:2, Funny)
well, they don't mind if it doesn't come with windows but i would guess that better than 9 out of 10 of them end up w/ windows on them. a few copies might even be legal (maybe)
Intel that big a selling point? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is having an Intel CPU still that big a deal to the average consumer? I know they still blow a ton of cash on advertising how a P4 will "make the internet faster" and the like, but does your average consumer care? They obviously care about Windows, not because it's Windows but because Deer Hunter 8 or 3D Home Recipe Book VI won't run on anything else. But the CPU?
Re:Intel that big a selling point? (Score:2)
Damn - good bye, PowerMac!
(For the humor impaired: This is a joke. I have DSL. Thank you for playing.)
Re:Intel that big a selling point? (Score:2)
The sub-average user sees the dollar savings as a real benefit without even understanding the performance implications. Look at the Celeron and Duron... sure, some enthuiasts grabbed onto the bargain cachetarded chips to save money and overclock the hell out of them, but lots of people bought them because a chip is a chip, and cost savings is a quantifiable win.
reminds me of this quote: (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Intel that big a selling point? (Score:5, Interesting)
However, while Intel is a big brand, Walmart is many orders of magnitude bigger. People are willing to overlook the lack of recognizable and trusted brand on the box because they have such high brand loyalty to Walmart.
Walmart has that effect. If anyone can inspire change in the industry.. its a retailer like Walmart. They have legions of loyal customers who trust them to stock merchandise that they can rely on... That's why I like this so much. Its only going to be much later that all of a sudden people realize that hundred of thousands (if not millions) of people are running these Linux PC's.. and THAT will be the day that people will finally realize that there is a world outside of Microsoft. THAT will be the day that Microsoft will begin to lose its desktop monopoly.
But do they even know? (Score:5, Insightful)
All snide comments aside... (Score:5, Insightful)
Consider - the biggest excuse that people have used about Linux has been "nobody uses it, so nobody writes software for it."
Well, people are using it, now. This is the opportunity for Linux to show that it is, indeed, useful for everyday users... or not.
Face it - this is going to be Linux's baptism by fire. Let's try hoping that it survives, instead of making half-witticisms about Wal-Mart shoppers.
Re:All snide comments aside... (Score:5, Insightful)
And that's what scares me. People are going to judge Linux by Lindows. I've never used it. I hope it's good and polished. But I'd feel rather more happy with the fate of Linux resting on say, RedHat.
How long has Lindows been around for again?...
How long does linux stay on the machine? (Score:2, Interesting)
Attracting novices? Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
These things don't come with monitors, modems, etc. I'd be really surprised if novices are buying these things. I guess they might be if they are getting the "extra-price-items"... like a monitor.
These seem like geek toys. Or maybe as a CPU upgrade for those with old PC's.
Reality check... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Reality check... (Score:3, Insightful)
Hopefully, this will make game companies sit up and take note - more Linux users = more quality games and apps.
Stats? (Score:2, Insightful)
How many people understood that the were getting a lindows machine, and didn't just think that "any puter is a puter"? I mean they clearly tried to make the logos look windows/intel-like.
And "There is no modem, floppy disk drive". How many of the customers know that they won't be able to go right home and get on that interweb?
I know these are great for a lot of people, I just fear the information isn't readily available for the people that they are not great for, like joe-newbie and his first box.
It's hard to applaud this without more beta.
Not surprised (Score:4, Interesting)
What I'd like to know is what percentage of those systems keep Linux on them, and what percentage have an "improperly licensed" copy of Windows installed.
Has anyone seen these boxes brought to a User Group meeting, and if so, what is the user's opinion about the non-Windows OS?
Just wait. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Just wait. (Score:3, Funny)
$200 Walmart PCs with Mandrake? (Score:5, Interesting)
Users need a real and *easy to use* Linux system! A pre-installed Mandrake Linux (8.2 or 9.0) is in my opinion the best system they can be offered. It's real Free Software, it's secure, it's fast, it's reliable, and there are many many software available for it.
Lindows' success is the result of it's CEO's address large book really a bad for Linux because it's just an attempt to provide a *very badly designed* system that looks as closely as possible to Windows.
This isn't the future of masses computing in any way in my opinion.
Re:$200 Walmart PCs with Mandrake? (Score:3, Informative)
When I bought mine, I had my choice between Mandrake and Lindows. I chose Lindows so I could see what it was like. It's umm.. yucky.
But then I'm not a fan of Linux for the desktop in general. The GUI's are too inconsistent between apps for my taste.
Re:$200 Walmart PCs with Mandrake? (Score:5, Informative)
Just to be sure that people don't think the above post is a troll, I'd like to say that this is my observation as well. Having talked to Michael (Lindows' CEO), I know that the only thing he brings to the Linux desktop is a large rolodex, and a used-car-salesman attitude.
I also spoke to Cliff Beshers, their technical lead, and I was even less impressed. At least Michael knows what he brings to the party - we may not thing it's the right thing, but at least it's honest about it - but Cliff shouldn't have the word "technical" in his title anywhere.
Low price is great. But whay about service? (Score:2, Insightful)
Just one pertinent question here: (Score:2)
They would have exceeded at least some expectations by selling maybe 100 of these. :)
I use Lindows..... (Score:5, Funny)
Joe Schmoe ain't buying it. (Score:2, Redundant)
Mini-ITX (Score:4, Interesting)
And, for better or for worse, despite the carping of usability engineers and the whining of Microsoft zealots, if they run Gnome/KDE, Mozilla, and OpenOffice on it, end users will have a software experience not too different from Windows with Microsoft Office.
Imagine . . . your OS controlled by Wal-Mart? (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes, $200 for a computer that does the things that most people need sounds great, and I'm excited to see it selling well. In fact, I am considering buying one to set up as a general purpose linux box.
One must remember, however, that Wal-Mart is a large corporation just like Microsoft . . . and it has a history of pouring money into stores and selling inventory at a loss to kill off competition. Though I doubt it may happen any time soon, if large numbers of users start flocking to the "Wal-Mart" PC, Microsoft may lose its footing in the operating system market, but would a market dominated by Wal-Mart be healthy?
Just something to think about.
The Via CPU is Really Slow (Score:5, Informative)
The 800 Mhz Via CPU is roughly equivalent to a 400 Mhz Celeron.
I popped in a 1.2 Ghz Celeron for $62 and it runs Much Better.
The 10 GB drive is also Very slow.
I could have built a much better machine for a little more money. Still, it isn't a bad deal.
I booted Lindows and took a quick look before blowing it away. It was really cheesy, with major pieces requiring additional purchase.
Re:The Via CPU is Really Slow (Score:4, Insightful)
After using one of these, I think you're underrating the CPU by a lot.
You forgot that when you're talking Cyrix, you're talking a big difference between application performance, and number crunching performance.
Number crunching on a C3 is pathetic. Application performance on a C3 800 is about equivalent to a PIII 550, IMHO. The C3 666 plays DVDs handsomely, and there's no way they'd play well on a Celeron 300...
And while you're saving on the computer, you also save on electricity. I'm very disappointed that so few laptop manufacturers have considered this chip. IIRC, it uses about 1/4 the power the power of an Athlon, and produces so little heat it can be relatively easily passively cooled.
In other words, a silent, cheap, laptop that doesn't burn your legs or your wallent, and lasts an entire trip from anywhere on the world to anywhere, all at the expense of some CPU power. Sounds cool to me.
meet the Lindows (Score:5, Funny)
With apologies to Hanna-Barbera...
Lindows
Meet the Lindows
You're the modern Wal-Mart family
Prices
Are bottom rock
You're making Linux history
Let's force
Microsoft to retreat
This cheap
PC is so 31337!
When you're
Using Lindows
You can play all your Windows games
It still looks the same
You drive Bill Gates insane!
The price leader (Score:2)
I told you Lindows was for real (Score:5, Insightful)
In response to a few criticisms of Lindows proprietary software:
Quite frankly, I think Lindows is the best chance to topple the MS empire, because of the software itself and the business plan/model behind it. Once people are using Lindows, its a few steps from there to more traditional GNU/Linux distros.
Lindows is, quite frankly, very easy to use -- even for newbies. You can't underestimate how important that is for the typical user. Remember, your parents even have a hard time using Windows or MacOS!
Re:I told you Lindows was for real (Score:3, Informative)
Uh, really? Debian Official ISO Mirrors [debian.org]
And with Christmas coming (Score:5, Interesting)
Heck, for some guy buying a computer for his almost-never-used-a-PC-before granny/mother/aunt/etc this is a great present. Cheap, goes online, runs a word processor. They're not super-fast, but they're not retarded-slow either.
I doubt you'll see many gamers buying these, but for those who are just trying to get some letters printed and emails sent, it's a good deal.
In response to naysayers... (Score:5, Insightful)
Points to consider (Score:5, Insightful)
- WalMart does not sell PCs for a liiving. It's jusy one of many products.
- If this product tanks WalMart will not be hurt at all.
- WalMart does not need Uncle Bill's blessing to make money (see first point).
- These are bare-bones, bottom of the pile PCs that are selling because they are cheap.
This is not a revolution in PC sales. This is a huge desicount chain selling a second-rate computer at the lowest price they possibly can as a side project that isn't even worth putting in their stores.Novices will eventually want more (Score:3, Interesting)
Best qutoe of the article? (Score:3, Funny)
Tons of different meanings on that one. Decide for yourself which way you want to take it.
Microsoft as a telco... (Score:3, Interesting)
Typical. People saying that the software that is available on windows is not available on linux. Yes, this is true that a lot of the same software is not available on linux, and sometimes it is not easy to migrate new users... but people will do it... I run a dual boot system on my laptop 'just in case' I have to use windows, but honestly I can't remember the last time I actually NEEDED to use windows. I honestly will be interested in seeing how many businesses migrate to linux for some of their applications once OpenOffice and similar free/open source office projects become available. I believe that we will see (and have already started to see) Microsofts battle against open-source, and it reminds me of the way that MaBell used to battle local telcos, undercut the competition by lowering your price. In this case, they have to undercut it to the point that they are giving it away for free. There have been several slashdot articles on this reccently, and coming from an educational institution, and talking to IT people at other educational institutions I know that Microsoft offers lots of 'perks' to institutions, including free/cheap software and the Microsoft Academic Alliance (for students) to not only get them to use MS products instead of looking for or adopting alternatives, but also to get students used to and familiar with Microsoft Products instead of products from the competition (CS students req'd to make sure code works in Vis Studio before turning it in, intro to computers or other general courses focusing mainly (if only) on MSOffice). I was going somewhere with this, but I lost track. I guess I'll just end in saying the battle with Microsoft has only begun, you might even argue that the first shots have yet to be fired...
Two Reviews on July 4 (Score:5, Funny)
Makes a change from "Slashdot posted the same review of these machines twice on July 4."
How about schools and kindergardens? (Score:4, Interesting)
Joe Sixpack didn't buy it.. (Score:4, Funny)
Some even bought 2 or 3 and gave 'em to the kids.
Others turned extra boxes into home mp3 servers.
The VIA processor is really bad. (Score:4, Informative)
The Via c3 has only one integer unit and one fp unit, coupled with a decent-sized cache. Architecturally, the via c3 is extremely primitive, worse than the original pentium. The c3 benchmark scores are consistently about 1/3rd to 1/4th those of a celeron or a duron at the same clock speed.
That tragic this is: putting an AMD duron in this machine would have tripled the performance, and would have costed only about $10 more. The $199 lindows box was likely intended to be a no-profit "crippleware" machine, to lure people to the $299 and $399 models.
The TigerDirect Lindows machine sold for $230.00 (Score:4, Informative)
Sub $500 PC (Score:5, Insightful)
AAUGHH!! (Score:5, Funny)
Live by the $ die by the $ (Score:3, Interesting)
What counts is all on the bottom line.
M$ is kidding itself if it thinks people give a tinker's cuss about it's software. Most people never "got it" and haven't ever had a friggin' clue as to what all the screaming was about.
M$ Office in on the way out in the consumer space because OpenOffice is available for about half a friggin' grand less. M$ Windows is on the way out in the consumer space because Linux is available for a few hundred less.
What sells in the consumer space is whatever's "good enough" and "fast enough" (something M$ is definitely LOUSY at,) to do what people want.
The hardware is already there, has been for a couple of years. The software/bloatware is what's been holding up the works.
On the business front, as a software developer, I'd rip my own lungs out before buying Lindows for what my professional needs are, but the user work-stations (read that again "work" "station") and the MIS departments that have to keep the boxen alive are glad to have a cheap M$ alternative.
Rolling out Lindows boxen sounds like some MIS manager's big "I saved X-amount of dollars" bonus opportunity.
And at home Lindows'd be good enough... If I wasn't typing this on a slackware8.1 box and if I wasn't already a Mac maniac for my other machines.
My biggest challenge is teaching my techno-indifferent wife to use the Linux box. (She doesn't want to use the Mac either.)
Better hardware - same price? (Score:3, Interesting)
For those of use who might throw $200 at a utility box, can anyone recommend hardware (especially motherboard and power supply) that are of better proven quality than this WalMart dohingus, yet still come in with the same (incomplete) features for not more than $200? $250? Sure, we'd as soon screw the stuff together and install our fave distro
Tiger Direct sold out of 2000+ Lindows comps (Score:3, Informative)
Call the lawyers! (Score:4, Funny)
DMCA! DMCA! DMCA! [slashdot.org]
"Average" Users don't install OSes! (Score:3, Insightful)
Vacuum cleaner bags. (Score:3, Interesting)
So there's a niche where a cheap as hell PC that does the stuff that a PC does, but is cheap as hell, would be very marketable. To all those folks who want a PDA, but don't want to spend the bucks for a Palm, and certainly not for something like a Zarus. Just like there's expensive phones and cheap as hell phones. Or cheap stereos.
There's a market for a cheap computer. If it does what it needs to do, software and file compatability be damned. There are a whole lot of people that, if they can't open a particular file format or view some funky proprietary content on the web, will just go "huh? oh well." and they'll get on with their lives! I'll bet if you had a few games for the platform that weren't on other platforms, they'd sell, too. And people would not be all that upset that Windows games don't work, provided you did not give them that expectation. People may not be knowledgeable, but they are NOT stupid. (I hail from a small town in East Texas, and believe I'm qualified to speak on that matter!)
I really don't think incompatability would hurt here as much as other people seem to think it will, and certainly not as much as Microsoft is betting it will. Do the people with $10 pda's care if they can't run palm apps? Do you really think the people with self-contained workflow are going to care whether they run Koffice, Openoffice, or word?
Microsoft, and all the software publishers (games mostly!) have created the expectation in consumers that "computer == runs windows software" but, I don't think that'll be terribly hard to break. Look at the console market, or any other product that has an aftermarket where accessories on one brand are incompatible with another.
Vacuum cleaner bags. They get it. I buy a Hoover, I need Type H bags. I buy a Eureka, I need type AA bags. I'll even bet some of them check the price, and they see if H bags are $3.00 and AA bags are $1.50, it influences their decision. But they get it, and they don't end up returning the Eureka because it doesn't use the Hoover bag.
Game consoles. Nobody has a problem understanding that Nintendo games don't fit Sony. And they're okay with that. Camera film comes to mind as another example, but seems somewhat anachronistic today.
So it doesn't come with Word? Well, that's a social problem for some people. The idea that not being able (or willing) to read a Word Doc might cost your job, etc.
Not everybody has their career resting on being able to open or save a powerpoint or a word doc.
Lots of us are in that predicament, but, we're not the ones buying a $50 PC, are we? (Yes I know the lindows box is more like $200, but, I'm seeing the possibility).
The main thing that distinguishes "Computers" and "Peripherals, Software" from "Vacuum cleaners" and "Bags" is that the retailers have thoroughly ingrained the notion that "Computer == Windows" into the consumer's mind. But guess what? They can STILL sell something else, as long as they don't instill a false expectation in that customer.
To be sure, there will be salespeople claiming that Lindows runs Game X, Application Y. There will be people returning these things, partly just because people return things to Walmart, and partly because it hasn't met their expectations.
There will be people who immediately wipe the disk and install windows on it.
And there will be people who use the system, never adding anything to it, happily emailing stories about the newborn poodle or how the floor of the shed needs to be fixed and can you pay the insurance on the truck this month to their kids and grandkids on the west coast. There will be a web resource here and there that won't load in opera or mozilla or whatever, sure, but if it *WORKS* and does what the customer expects it to do, it DOESN'T MATTER ONE BIT that it isn't Windows!
How good is it really? (Score:3, Interesting)
1. People will not necessarily associate Lindows with Linux - more likely think it's a cheap Windows clone;
2. If and when Lindows doesn't run something, they'll assume it's Lindows fault, not that that's the price of running Lindows; so, If they do link Lindows with Linux, they assume it's an OS for cheap machines; and that Linux has all the faults and problems that Lindows has (i.e. not 100% Windows compatable) Never mind it isn't intended to be a Windows clone, any bad impressions of Lindows will reflect on Linux.
As a side note, it's interesting that Wal-mart, another favorite
Also, how well is Lindows complying with GPL terms? If they are successfull, they may be reluctant to give away what they view as the foundation of tehir success, and have the cash to fend off challenges.
Re:I am pleased with the Lindows aspect... (Score:2)
They have built an empire selling sweat shop wares at prices that no one else can compete with. This has sounded the death knell for the mom and pop operations of the world.
Am I supposed to be unhappy at paying lower prices from an efficient company? Am I supposed to be angry because Wal-Mart doesn't charge me more?
Do you get angry when Apple is "forced" to lower prices because of the prices of commodity PC hardware?
Re:I am pleased with the Lindows aspect... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I am pleased with the Lindows aspect... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've never seen any of his movies, yet I hate the man. I've seen enough interviews and excerpts to know that he is the very definition of sophistry. He uses simplistic and shallow reasoning to demonize people for his own personal gain.
He reminds me of Noam Chomsky, in a way. The both take facts out of context and shine them in the worst light possible while completely ignoring any facts that don't fit their twisted world view. The difference between Chomsky and Moore is that Chomsky is extremely intelligent but literally insane, and Moore is stupid but crafty and devious. Moore knows exactly what he's doing by using only emotional manipulation for his movie subjects, but is too intellectually limited to do complete, in-depth analysis of his documentary subjects.
Regardless of whether you agree with his politics or not, that guy is the devil.
Re:Users (Score:2, Insightful)
It doesn't matter what slashdot readers think of them. That's not who they're marketed toward. I think a better question is what your grandma/neighbor/any other non computer saavy person thinks about them.
Re:Users (Score:4, Insightful)
Another target user would be the low-budget buyer who isn't willing to put out the extra $100 for an MS license and sees that the boxes do what (s)he wants.
The third would probably be someone with enough money that 'blowing' $200 to find out about Linux seems entirely worth it.
I've generally been of the opinion that one of the biggest barriers to general Linux acceptance is the difficulty in finding a box with anything other than MS pre-loaded. Although I find Linux installs easier than Windows installs, it's still a pain in the butt. Most users aren't willing to buy a bare bones system w/ a separate OS and then waste their time on an install while risking being blocked by some odd incompatibility (e.g. not being able to differentiate hardware failure from installer error).
These Wall Mart boxes are pretty much the first mass-market over-the-counter Linux boxes for the masses. I may have misgivings about Lindows' software practices, but it's definitely nice to see Linux bozes in the aisles this Christmas.
Re: Who on /. uses this hunk of junk? Me! (Score:5, Informative)
but the implications are big... (Score:5, Insightful)
I think this is an excellent opportunity for small PC manufacturers, and maybe even OpenSource projects, to get their feet in customers' doors. And big vendors (cough Microsoft cough) should be afraid. Very afraid.
Re:but the implications are big... (Score:3)
I think this is scary because people like us who actually need/use higher end hardware will end up paying more. If only the cheap hardware market moves units in large numbers, then higher end, quality products will be manufactured in smaller numbers and be harder to come by.
If I want to build a super-reliable desktop now adays, I have to buy a very high end hard drive in the SCSI range if I want to get a decent warranty. Ever notice that all the reasonably priced network cards have cheapo Realtek chipsets? Cases are really cheap and I want a good one, I probably have to send CAD$200+ to get an aluminium one with good airflow and slots for HDD cooling fans. Server quality mobos aren't exactly cheap either.
I'm just saying that the commoditisation of the hardware market will make things harder for users who really do need pro quality equipment.
Re:but the implications are big... (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't think this is true. this "commoditisation of the hardware market" will only make the percentage of pro-quality equipment drop but the raw number will probably increase. Think about it. More people using low-end hardware means more people wanting better stuff.
As for your SCSI disk example, just think how much you'd have to pay for a 0,5 GB slow and unreliable disk a few years ago. Alot more than you do now.
The increase in the price of pro-equipment is only hapenning because you're changing that definition to mean server-class stuff, since that's becoming afordable today. Hence, prices are actually *droping* because of the massification of computer hardware. There's no indication that that won't continue.
Re:but the implications are big... (Score:4, Insightful)
For faster stuff and bigger storage, we are getting into the next level of application, mostly Entertainment.
But even the typical consumer pc has gotten to the point where, the human's attention span exceeds the wait for any operation they use the machine for, where the storage is enough for anything they're likely to create (again, let's don't worry about the next level -- video -- because that falls into Entertainment).
For all the stuff that we really *need* computers for (replace the typewriter, the check register, and the cookbook), the 1990 PC fell short of the needed capacity to meet the human proportions: It lacked the storage capacity to comfortably store everything a user would write, or a really huge cookbook; operations would take seconds or minutes to complete, etc.)
Today we've converged at a point where human proportions allow a plateau. Now, we begin a new cycle where the application is Entertainment. So we need A/V. Faster computers, bigger storage. But no matter how much faster and bigger they get, we already reached a point where the old-skool apps WORK in a sense that they did NOT work (but almost did) 10 years ago.
Always keep in mind that we're talking about PERSONAL computers here. Not Business or Technical computers. Entertainment/Multimedia falls into this category. All the stuff we wanted the PC for in 1990, we can actually do now. Without waiting 5 minutes for the wordprocesor to load. Without worrying about storage space for reasonable stuff.
In short, we have the PC today that IBM said the 286 was. It's just now starting to be practical!
We NEEDED gigabyte drives, Tens of Megs of RAM, back then. But that does not necessarily mean we need more now. We're just now to the point where the application requirements of 1990 are met, and we're indifferent, because we've thought of a whole new set of requirements... Entertainment.
Re:Who cares there is Pricewatch. (Score:2, Interesting)
That will work for people who know computers well enough to build them, but the average person doesn't really know too much on how to make one.
Everyone knows the old addage you get what you pay for. When I worked selling computers though, there were two types of customers. There was the type that wanted the best hardware they could get, price be damned, and there was the type that just wanted to type stuff up and surf the net, and those people really only wanted to spend what they had to.
By offering customers a(cheap) linux solution which allows them to type up papers and surf the internet, you are answering the computer needs of a signifigant marketshare. By putting Linux in thier hands, you're enabling them to see that there's more to the world than bargain basement e-machines running the latest M$ operating system, and for around 33% - 50% of the cost of one of those e-machines.
Re:Who cares there is Pricewatch. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:People don't care if it's linux (Score:3, Insightful)
What does, concern me, however is the security of Lindows boxes. Most "average" users, while not complete idiots, don't often understand concepts behind the "root" user, security exploits, etc.
Hopefully the default Lindows install has been secured reasonably.
The problem exists with Windows machines, as well.
However, if a major security hole is found and exploited on these Lindows machines, Microsoft's PR department WILL use it to try to destroy the credibility of Linux as a whole.
Re:Who is buying these? (Score:3, Informative)
In all honesty, I'm not so thrilled with Lindows. There was no documentation, they did away with man (although most everthing is there in their "documents" tool), and promised software didn't seem to be installed. No biggie, I went and got it for free from the 'net.
I will probably end up putting Mandrake or Red Hat on it when I've got more time...
The big thing was I needed to set up a home network with printer sharing and it would have been more of a hassle to try to upgrade my Pentium 150 so that I could load a Linux Distro and all the hassles of dealing with old, proprietary Packard Bell components.
This thing got me up and running fast and cheap. I'll by the speed demon PC later....
BTW, there's no way in Hell I'd put a pirated copy of XP (or Me, 9x, NT) on this computer. It is blissfully MS free!
~whidbey
Re:No modems?!! (Score:3, Interesting)
They are marketing these PC's at a certain price level... that's their magic number... They don't want to go over it.
They probably don't have a modem, because the ethernet controller was probably already on the motherboard. Now, what they COULD do, form an alliance with some modem manufacturer and offer some sort of rebate on an external modem...