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Changing Face of Linux? 134

Posted by CmdrTaco from the stuff-to-read dept.
standards writes "Reuters is reporting that pony-tailed Linux Users have been seen mingling with executives in short-sleeved golf shirts. The article suggests that real technology guys don't wear shorts, T-shirts or baseball caps." the article is mostly about the business focus of Linux these days, although I think the writer is a couple years late since I think this was really the case about 4 LinuxWorld's ago ;)
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Changing Face of Linux? More

Changing Face of Linux?

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  • A couple years late ? (Score:5, Funny)

    by tmark ( 230091 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @09:17AM (#4136416)
    the article is mostly about the business focus of Linux these days, although I think the writer is a couple years late since I think this was really the case about 4 LinuxWorld's ago ;)

    If so, doesn't this mean Slashdot is ALSO a couple years late with this story ;)

  • Wear a tuxedo! (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    To have Linux considered serious, every user should wear a tuxedo.

    That will do it...

    ...or not. ;)

  • Yeah in a big way! (Score:1, Interesting)

    by ObviousGuy ( 578567 )
    Wall Street loves Linux!

    VA Software [yahoo.com]
    Redhat [yahoo.com]

    An interesting chart with comparisons [yahoo.com]
  • I'm just wandering, what kind of rebellion will next generation choose ;-)
    • That's simple...

      Three piece suits, $500 shoes, etc.

      • I meant - like now is Linux revolutionary (maybe was because now everybody takes Linux as something "normal" - even maybe M$ :)))) - what revolution will be next one?
    • Five years ago, a small upstart company wouldn't know it had made the big time until it was bought out by Microsoft. These days, we can tell that the "revolutionary OS" is a success, because dependable, non-revolutionary corporations are investigating ways to profit from it. That's always been the nature of most revolutions: They either die most miserably, or end up becoming part of the establishment themselves.

      Of course, the ideas inherent in the way Linux is written and distributed may nevertheless go on to infect these established businesses. I'm interested in watching how things change because of it.

      But which sort of rebellion will the next generation choose? Perhaps they could try showing their contempt for stuffy social norms by wearing their baseball caps backwards. Seriously, though, I doubt it will have anything to do with computers. They'll use them, sure. And no doubt Moore's Trend^H^H^H^H^H Law will give rise to some very disruptive killer apps. But computers themselves may be too much a part of the everyday landscape to be the focus of much revolutionary energy.
  • While it's good to read about some Linux hackers (not crackers) who don't fit the stereotypical "GNU hippie" mold, I wonder whether this might have a negative effect on the position of Linux in the marketplace. It seems to me that Linux has always to some extent banked on the "outsider" images of its users and community. If it starts to look like we've all turned into suits, then we lose what little appeal we have. So don't shave your beards yet... ;-)D

    (that's me winking, with a beard!)

    • Re:bad news for Linux? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by garcia ( 6573 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @09:46AM (#4136490)
      I really don't think the "appel of Linux" has anything to do w/alternative PHYSICAL appearances.

      The draw of Linux is speed, stability, cost.

      "Hippy hackers" aren't necessary going to come w/the product. Those that have already been working for a company that is going to begin using it are going to either a) already be familiar with it or b) will become familiar with it.

      "Linux-geeks" are growing-up just the same as the actual OS itself. That's why we are seeing more and more in the real-world.

      Just my worthless .02
      • Are you sure? I opened up this here linux package, and now I've got this big hairy bear shambling around my living room, going "Gnuuuuu, gnuuuuu...." ;)

        • That's not a bear. That's RMS.

          But, you need to treat RMS just like you would any other wild animal. If you don't feel that you're up to the task of care and feeding of RMS, you should call animal control. They'd be happy to relocate him back to his natural habitat.
      • I beg to differ!!

        I am NOT growing up!!!
      • Is freedom, relative ease of migration for UNIX LOB apps from legacy systems, and the flexibility of the open source development model.

        Let's face it, very little of your cost is in the upfront licensing costs. A Lot More is in the development of business tools etc. The more reusable code that exists, the better. The better application stacks that exist, the better, the better environments for server software development, the better.

        But Linux is not yet the most scalable operating system in the world (probably Unicos/MK is). But it is getting better.
      • "Hippy hackers" aren't necessary going to come w/the product. Those that have already been working for a company that is going to begin using it are going to either a) already be familiar with it or b) will become familiar with it. ----- or the guy who just actually knows how to RTFM !!
    • In the regular world, the computer that the "outsiders" use is Apple, if statement-making is your goal. Linux users are percieved more like auto junkies who rebuild transmissions on their own and the like. A Thinkpad with Linux on it looks the same as a Thinkpad with Windows XP on it being carried around. A TiBook or an iBook stand out.
      • What's that supposed to mean? You can run GNU/Linux on an iBook or TiBook just fine (I do).

        Being a GNU hippie is great. Not everyone is like that, not now, nor before, but some are and what are you suggesting, that we go install Mac OS X? That's neither free nor cool.
        • Hippies aren't outsiders anymore, I hate to break it to you.

          And either way, you partly proved my point. I'm saying that the hardware defines the outsider these days, not necessarily the operating system you run on it. I run Linux on old iMacs and that tends to scare the normal computer people I know alot, for some reason. First I'm using "crappy flower power idiot" Apple hardware, and then I'm running that weird Linux crap on top of it, but the important (to them) part is that I'm using an Apple. Running Linux on my PC gets me a moment of "of cool, I've heard it's neat" and then that fades out.

          So, I was merely saying, if outsider status is what you crave, you've got to start with an Apple machine. If you really want to scare/awe people, sure, put Linux on it, but the Apple logo on the hardware is what will put you way ahead of the outsider game.
    • I saw "Revolution OS" yesterday. I was very surprised at the range of personal appearances. RMS was the only one that looked the sterotypicl hacker. ESR and BP looked like typical geeks. But Michael Tiemann and Larry Augustin looked like suits, dressed like suites, but talked like hackers. They don't fit the mold at all.

      And we all know that Linus looks so much like a family man (well duh!) that no one would ever suspect him of hacking code if they ran across him on the street.

    • Actually, you got that one backwards. It is because the physical appearance of Linux users has changed from outside to something on the inside that it can flourish in the Big Business community.

  • Well, it's up to me to choose my poison. I can drink beer or even apple juice. Who cares ?. I'm still a linux geek at heart.
  • Rant level: high.

    Why, oh why, must every non-technical magazine make these 3 stupid things every time there is a linux article?

    stupid thing 1: Every linux article seems to mention that only X% of the _sold_ servers are running linux.

    And non-internet servers? What about intranet servers. file servers and so on?
    What about all those servers that the admin has bought a $5 magazine with a linux CD and installed linux on?

    stupid thing 2: Linux users spent only $80 million on the software, less than one percent of the amount spent on all operating systems for all computers.

    yes, what is so suprising with this? even if you buy a boxed version with support it's still a lot cheaper then windows.
    Why can't a single article mention this?

    stupid thing 3: Linux sales are expected to grow...

    yes... that's good. But what about _actual_ usage?
    Don't forget all those computer that uses a downloaded or magazine bundled copy.

    I all basicly boils down to one thing.
    There is no way to really know how many computers/servers are running linux.
    So stop compare it with how many windows/other servers there are.
  • Dress code has frequently come down to praticallity.
    Long hair has long been the choice of the gentry because they it takes a hell of a lot of looking after and shows that you are of a high enough class to have long hair.
    Finger nails are the same, a working class woman could never praticly keep long finger nails, they would break, long nails show you status in society.

    During the revolutions accross europe that shunned the upper classes short hair became the fassion because it was a pratical way of not dieing! and it has been that way ever since.

    • Re:history? (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Sorry but I don't agree. Long hair was never, nor will ever be in style.

      The only thing under a pony tail is a horse's ass.
    • Strange how fashion at times has come down to un-practicality, proving chic-ness and how rich you are by how impractical your actions are.

      Blue bloods were called that because they were so pale that their veins showed through their skin. They weren't like the field workers, out in the sun all day, and they wanted to prove it. Now that normal jobs are inside and not outside, I find it a bit ironic now that having a tan now is chic, showing that you're not stuck inside all day.

      A couple Halloweens back I had one of those long frilly shirts (don't ask) with the lace on the cuffs. I was thinking as I wore it, I'd end up ripping them to shreds or accidentally killing myself if I wore it regularly. Totally impractival. But it proves I don't have to do anything, I have servants to do it. How cool I am!!
    • Yeah, but now we have showers, and running hot water, which do help. I used to buzz my hair, because combing it was a pain. Now I'm letting it grow, because keeping it cut was a pain. And I have a beard because shaving is a pain. I'll bet a lot of other long-haired, bearded professionals have a similar reason: the less you have to do to be ready for work when you wake up in the morning, the better.
  • so buisness is using linux more. so what ?
    i don't mind if people make money out of linux or save money by using it as long as they don't make it "un-free" !

  • You still need the geeks (Score:5, Insightful)

    by gosand ( 234100 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @10:08AM (#4136544)
    No matter how much the guys in the golf shirts and suits pretend to know about linux, you will always need the true geek to get the most out of it. Who cares if the people on the "front lines" are business people. I think that linux has it's heart in the right place, and no amount of posing and shlubbing can change that. If it does, on the corporate level, there will always be those in the trenches who can just have fun with it and hack it. I don't look at it as a change, just an evolution. If you want to attract more people, you are going to get all kinds of people. Even marketing drones. It comes with the territory. I think there is enough room in the linux pool for everyone. The key is, the technology is the base of it all, so without the tech people, it won't exist.

    Being a geek used to be bad (80s) then trendy (90s) and now it is seen as necessary.

    • define "geek".

      The way you are defining it is negative.

      Linux is becoming less geekish as it grows. It is no longer necessary at all to be a geek to use it, understand it, and implement it.
      • It is no longer necessary at all to be a geek to use it, understand it, and implement it.

        How about to grok it?

        You don't need a pony tail, beard and fading USENIX tshirt to be a geek. You just need to love the guts of technology.
      • define "geek". The way you are defining it is negative.

        I didn't define it really, but I can say what I think it means. It is someone who loves technology, and isn't afraid to embrace it and try to learn about it. Geeks are "hands-on" people, and while there are the "theoretical geeks", most of them aren't afraid to dive into things and check them out. I would have used the term hacker, because that is the truer term, but hacker has been given a bad image.

        And I don't think the way I described geeks as being negative. I think it is a positive thing that we have these kinds of people. Have you ever met a scientist? Those guys are wacked out. Same with mathematicians, and physicists. But that is good, that is what their role is, it is OK. True, they can be socially capable, but for the most part they have their niche. Same goes for artists, musicians, etc. And the same can be said with marketing people. While it is possible that they can interact with the geeks, usually they can't really connect. And that is a good thing.

    • It's not entirely necessary for someone thoroughly familiar with technology to have a scraggly beard, pony-tail, and D&D tshirt.
    • I hate that old image of geeks, black shirt, long hair, whatever.

      Forget that! I've been a geek since I was 8 years old programming my C64, I wear thousand dollar suits because I damn well want to! I keep my hair respectable just how I want it, I date girls often, I'm *able* to communicate effectively, and more than anything else I hate talking endlessly to geeks about the intricacies of Xyz protocol or Abc's new gizmo! Argh!?

      Heck maybe I'm not a geek, and there is hope for me yet? :)

  • Dress code mayhaps? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by sielwolf ( 246764 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @10:59AM (#4136680) Homepage Journal
    Well in the corp I work for, a dress code is mandatory. Sure, it's business casual but that does imply collered shirts and pressed slacks.

    Sure, some of those dudes have the classic pony-tail and guru beard, but the clothing doesn't make the man. Hawaiian shirt or not, the guy in the polo and dockers is just as big of a loser as the rest of us.

    Wait a minute...
    • Well in the corp I work for, a dress code is mandatory.

      Never understood companies that do stupid stuff like that...do they want software developers, or fashion models? I mean, I could do either sort of work, but I want to know what pay scale to negotiate on...

      "Real technology guys" don't give a shit if other people are wearing t-shirts, three-piece suits, or are naked. Show me results, and so long as it's clean and doesn't smell bad I don't care what you're wearing.

      • Well that was the "not going to a meeting with a supervisor or external exec." Dresscode.

        The purpose of a dresscode is this: the way you dress reflects what you think of those you work with.

        It's the God's honest truth. Why do you think you go to an interview in a suit? Or a date in a clean pair of Underoos? To get a positive reaction from the other party. "Wow! We're just this little start up and I'm only just the senior engineer but this guy came in wearing a suit! Today I feel like a big man..." Dress has little to do with comfort but with providing a pleasing presenation.

        In our corp as long as you are wearing long pants and a non-profane shirt most managers didn't care.

        But if an exec was touring the building or you had to go to a meeting, you were expected to not look like an idiot.

        People subconsciously rationalize that the amount of attention someone puts into their appearance equates to the commitment to the relationship.

        Or that is what Esquire says anyway.
    • That's why I like to work in my small company: 3 friends,jeans+T-shirt and a lot of beer in the company refrigerator. We work for big corporations too, still mantaining our funny indipendence. And tequila-parties in the office are great.

  • Real Technology Guys (Score:3, Interesting)

    by npsimons ( 32752 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @11:45AM (#4136784) Homepage Journal
    The article suggests that real technology guys don't wear shorts, T-shirts or baseball caps.


    Really?


    (/me looks down at shorts and "Got Root?" t-shirt, as well as Teva sandals)


    Hmm, guess I must not be a "real technology guy".


    Seriously, who do these people think they're kidding? There will *always* be a contingent of us who wear shorts and t-shirts, and quite frankly we don't *care* what other people think of that.


    To conclude, I leave you with a quote:


    Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes, and not rather a new wearer of clothes.
    -- Henry David Thoreau

    • On the other hand, many people think that "real technology people" are the ones who have "the latest cell phone" or who buy "the latest PC." On the contrary, the real geeks/hackers are the ones who realize that it doesn't matter whether or not you have "the latest $device," rather it's what you are capable of doing with $device. As far as the suits go, I think that as Linux has made inroads into big business, Linux and its proponents are being taken seriously enough that the rest of the "suits" would like or expect to see Linux people wearing suits.
      • As far as the suits go, I think that as Linux has made inroads into big business, Linux and its proponents are being taken seriously enough that the rest of the "suits" would like or expect to see Linux people wearing suits.


        Screw that crap, man. If I have to wear a suit to get a job, the job's not worth it. I mean, I'm not applying to be a fashion designer, am I? I work best when I am comfortable, and that includes wearing comfortable clothes that I can afford.

  • Dress codes (Score:4, Insightful)

    by pvera ( 250260 ) <pedro.vera@gmail.com> on Sunday August 25, 2002 @12:24PM (#4136891) Homepage Journal
    What is so bad about slacks and polo shirts? I like jeans like everybody else, but after 10-12 hours in front of a keyboard the jeans stretch and look like crap. At least dockers look the same way by the time you are out of the office.

    Plus let's be realistic. Until you own the business, somebody else is going to set the rules. It is obvious that if you are going to spend the day laying down ethernet cables and shifting racks and PCs it is completely retarded to force you to wear slacks, but if you know that for the whole day you are going to be playing meetings jockey or sitting at your desk answering emails and phone calls, then the slacks don't hurt.

    At my previous job we got rid of the dress code and let managers set it to whatever. Within operations we let the production guys wear shorts, since they were spending the whole day lugging around video equipment. Everybody else was free to wear whatever they pleased as long as:

    1. It was clean.
    2. It was not torn, ragged, etc.
    3. If it had any text printed it was a neutral messsage ("F*ck Microsoft" was not tolerated, but "All Your Base are Belong to US" was ok, etc.)
    4. You understood that with reasonable advance notice you will be required to dress up to business casual or full business attire (client visits, business trips, etc.).

    When I started interviewing for my new job I noticed that new employers did not really care about wearing a suit for the interview. They told me it was too hot to make me wear a suit plus they trusted me as a professional to know when and how to dress up. My current dress code: geek casual (dockers and golf shirts). The owner could care less as long as you don't walk into the office in flip flops and a mesh top, but he cares about our investors and clients walking into the office and see us looking like total slobs.

    And yeah, I play golf too.

  • OS preference vs. hair length (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Oh Lord, not this old myth again. For the record, here are the real statistics on average hair length related to OS usage:
    Linux: 4.13 inches
    GNU/Linux: 7.98 inches
    FreeBSD: 4.23 inches
    OpenBSD: 6.03 inches
    NetBSD: 1.71 inches
    Windows 98: 8.51 inches
    Windows 2000: 10.40 inches
    Windows XP: 16.82 inches
    Windows NT: N/A*

    *No Windows NT administrators with any hair left could be located.

    As you can see, it's just an old wives' tale. Let's move along people.

  • Ponytails? Pffft! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Cally ( 10873 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @01:19PM (#4137048) Homepage
    Ponytails are for yuppies, and people who work in advertising. Be like me - let your freak flag fly - just say NO! to hairbands, and let your shaggy mane fly as free - free as the wind - as the software we use!


    NB: joke... I keep it in a ponytail, outside the comfort & security of my own home...

  • ...although I think the writer is a couple years late since I think this was really the case about 4 LinuxWorld's ago ;)

    Absent an expensive media blitz, it takes the mainstream media a while to catch up. Sure, the fact that the "suits" are trying out Linux is yesterday's news. This kind of article indicates that Linux has reached the next stage. It's here to stay, and there's nothing Microsoft or anyone else can do to keep it out of the mainstream.

  • The part I liked.... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Xtifr ( 1323 ) on Sunday August 25, 2002 @03:45PM (#4137499) Homepage
    The casual mention of MS's booth at LWE really pleased me. Yeah, just another company making Linux credible to the business types. No mention of any MS FUD or speculation on their possible ulterior motives. Just the bald fact: they were there, lending credibility. Somehow, I doubt that's the spin MS wanted (though I'm sure they were aware it was a possibility).

    The rest of the article was pretty mundane, but no worse than I'd expect from the mainstream press (as opposed to industry press). Yeah, we've had suits at the shows for years, but the reputation of a system for "freaks and geeks" is still alive. Yeah, they got a few details wrong, but that's the press for ya. But the oh-so casual mention of MS I liked.
  • Linux was created as the people's software, free and open for everyone to use, in an attempt to thwart the commercialization of technology.
    Ugh, no, it was Just For Fun. Really. Linus uses Bitkeeper for crying out loud!!

    • big Inaccuracy (Score:3, Interesting)

      by twitter ( 104583 )
      Some software is created just for fun. Other software is created to insure that you have control of your computer. Don't confuse "commercialism" with the evil practices of current commercial software vendors. They are stupid and will be replaced. Much software created just for fun is of great use to all of us becuse it was licensed as free. Go visit clarity [fsf.org] to learn what why and how.
  • Instead of jumping directly from pony tails to business casual lets settle for the mullet [mulletsgalore.com]. Business in the front, party in the back - we all win.

    Baby steps people.

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