Migrating Your Office from Windows to Linux? 682
bastiji asks: "I work at a mid-sized company, around 50 people and 90% M$ shop (10% being the Sun server doing our backups). Most of my users are using Office 85% of the time with some specialized apps thrown in for good measure. With the upcoming licensing changes from M$ my finance guys are worried about increased spending on even the software that we already own. I've been to told to look for alternatives and I'm asking for your help. How does one begin to do migration from a totally dependent M$ shop to the least expensive options. Are there any examples for mid-sized firms taking this route and any public examples of cost-savings?"
Good Luck (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Good Luck (Score:2, Insightful)
You can even deny the "right" to auditory... and even deny the right of M$ to know how many computers and licences you have...
Unless they come with a court order...
And even then... you can refuse to deliver the data to M$ and demand to deliver it only to the court itself...
Cheers...
P.S.- Of course you can end with all your licenses voided but alas...
Re:Good Luck (Score:5, Insightful)
Entice even *one* person to try a new, alternative Office suite (start with an MS-Windows install of TOS Office). Ask for their feedback. Observe their learnning experience and learn from it, yourself. Then take it to the next level.
Teach a half-dozen people -- in your spare time. Grow your "install base". Always return to the original group(s) and make sure they're not feeling abandoned, etc.
Next, introduce *one* new person to a "pretty" desktop (Grome/KDE). Show them all the ease-of-use options first. Then help them understand the details as they walk through the learning curve. Every newbie will be diferent. But every newbie needs encouragement; A reason to stay the course.
By all means, show them the same app. they used on MS-Windows (e.g. TOS Office) running on the new desktop! Help them make "familiarity connections".
Be methodical, plodding, patient and open-minded. You'll succeed far sooner than you ever dreamed! The initial newbies, if you employ them, will help newer newbies. And the love will spread...
Do I sound like I've done this before?
Re:Good Luck (Score:3, Informative)
Whats the best way to manage multiple user accounts over mutlitple linux workstations?
NIS is the proven workhorse for this task and I've had good times with it. LDAP is much more elegant, versitile, and scalable but is a little harder to set up.
Would you want to have to run XDM on every machine though?
Yes. Most people are comfortable with a graphical login. Also, gdm/kdm/xdm will give the users a very polished system to work with - which is always good when you're trying to convince them to change and learn new things.
Of course, what you do with dedicated servers and the machine on your desk is your own business.
and would you want /home to be a NFS share? or other nextwork filesystem?
Sharing home directories with automounted NFS is the standard way to do this. It's solid and works well.
The real question for this is how often do users need to acess each other's files, and would it be convenient for them to be able to log into other people's machines and have their desktop appear in all it's glory? If the users need to read each other's files on a regular basis or if roaming is conveneint, then NFS-mounted home directories are a must.
Re:Good Luck (Score:3, Insightful)
Only proceed to the next step when the current one is fully completed.
P.S.:
You can also run MS Office with CodeWeaver's CrossOver (also based on Wine), but since you want to cut costs, you probably don't want to run MS Office.
Re:Good Luck (Score:2)
Some of the open source products I can think off, are Apache, Bind, Sendmail, Mysql, Postfix, perl, mrtg, etc. We also have commercial equivalents for most, which do think is the most stable? Theres alot of push to go with the multi-million dollar companies, and high profile software. Many times I look at a billing server and shake my head in disgust.
-
www.spoonwizard.com [spoonwizard.com]
Do only a partial change... (Score:3, Interesting)
Plus, changing business guys over to linux is no easy task.
Re:Do only a partial change... (Score:2, Informative)
Unfortunately, introducing another Operating System into your (until now) heterogenous network can cause some headaches. Most notably (at least in my case), backups can become a problem. We use AMANDA here for our backups and haven't had a problem. YMMV. File serving is a breeze (and FAST) with samba so you shouldn't run into any problems there.
Expect to spend a significant amount of time explaining "Windows Equivalents" to your users. Cut and Paste for example, can be a PITA.
It can be done. Don't let anyone tell you it can't.
Re:Do only a partial change... (Score:3, Insightful)
"...Linux simply cannot read some of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), you still need to keep some MS products around"
I really meant:
"...Linux apps capable of reading all of the MS formats (Access DB, oddities in Excel/Word files), do not exist yet, you still need to keep some MS products around."
Heck, changing non-business people is no easy task (Score:2, Insightful)
I tried to get my fiance to use Linux (SuSE 8.0), her response was "I don't want to learn Linux. I want to use Windows, that's what we have at work". Even though 90% of what she does on her computer at home (online banking, documents, web surfing) can be done just as easily on Linux, the exception being playing games (which I already have a dedicated machine for doing just that).
I tried telling her "There's nothing to learn really, you click on the menu, launch the program and use it like you would a Windows computer". Alas, to no avail.
My point being, even if you convince them it's cheaper, more stable, they won't care unless you force it down their throats. It's like medicine or a new dish. Some people like to try new things, others don't.
Not to mention the fact that you have to convince them that productivity won't be hurt. (now the Systems and help desk productivity might be hurt having to run around and say to everyone "it's just like windows". Your biggest problems will come when everyone and their dog wants to install their personal stuff (screensavers, wallpaper, P2P apps, etc...) on their new Linux machines, then get mad when you tell them it won't work.
Re:Heck, changing non-business people is no easy t (Score:3, Informative)
Screensavers? Have you SEEN the latest full Gnome install? I could spend an hour browsing through the stock screen savers! As for wallpaper, that's cross platform. A jpeg is a jpeg is a jpeg. P2P apps would be a problem if it wasn't for wine [codeweavers.com] and people like Frank [franksworld.net], who've figured it out for you. Closed formats are really the only thing that Microsoft apps can read that Linux apps can't. Even that barrier is crumbling.
That's funny (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Heck, changing non-business people is no easy t (Score:3, Funny)
If you were doing your "anal administrator" job properly, this isn't a problem. You see, the anal NT admin would only allow the end user to use the mouse on their machine. Typing would require an admin password.
So the answer is to become an anal NT admin, then switch everybody to Linux when they are used to not being able to do anything.
Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Perhaps use linux on desktop + metaframe
( plugin for citrix works great on linux ) for those apps you just *cant* replace...
Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:2)
The Java client works well in Mac OS X too. Use it everyday to manage legacy NT servers which I will shoot once we are finished with them.
Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:2)
Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.rdesktop.org
Re:Those Specialized apps will bite ya.. (Score:2)
If they are written in VB, I remember seeing a Borland ad that said they will port VB apps to Linux about 2 years ago. That might be worth looking into.
This is assuming, of course, that these are specialized in-house apps. It would be nice if there were a little more detail provided about the nature of these specialized apps, or even what business the guy is in might help us name some alternatives.
Who knows, maybe the providor of those apps have already done, or are working on, a Linux port. Has he talked to them about it?
Head to the supply store... (Score:2, Funny)
Simple (Score:5, Interesting)
Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:5, Insightful)
My suggestion is that if you choose not to go the Microsoft route make a point of either:
1) purging every vestige of microsoft's sofware from your office
2) making sure everything is in pristine order for when the BSA comes along
Re:Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:3, Interesting)
From the article
Re:Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course, none of this applies if you have bootleg software all over the place, but if you are legit company who is slightly out of compliance, fight back. And don't forget to call your attorney too.
Re:Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:2)
*applause*
While "vulgar", I couldn't have said it better myself.
Doesn't have quite the same ring as Ice Cube's "Fuck tha Police" though.
Re:Not so simple (you forgot the BSA) (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, and isn't MSFT that guy with the liquid theme?
GD
No they can't just audit you but... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, that's the "NICE" approach. The less than nice approach is that they file suit against you in court. During discovery they get to audit you and can find that lone piece of software that was infringing. Now you have to pay for that license, penalties, court costs, audit costs, damages. Now if it turns out that you are the one organization on earth that has all of your software licensed legitmately, then you can probably recover the costs for your legal defense, but even then you just wasted a lot of time and resources.
Re:Simple (Score:2)
Newer machines come with newer OS/Software only which is OEM bundled and not replaceable by your old "compatible" OS. Your older OS will either not work on them, or you will not have a legal license or both.
As a result, if you need to replace just one machine you immediately open a can of worms that will be very hard to close after that. You may repair machines ad naseum but no new ones. Which obviously is not always possible.
Before you switch... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also make a list (you can't plan something like this too much) of all the apps they're using, and what features they're using, and make sure you can provide all of those features before you switch.
And put lots of pictures of Tux around the place. His cute smile will calm everyone's fears.
Re:Before you switch... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also check the how well specialized applications under wine. Don't just read the ranking in the codewearvers database: actually use it.
Re:Before you switch... (Score:3, Interesting)
Cost of retraining? (Score:5, Insightful)
Something to consider. This is probably the biggest reason that OSS has had such a hard time infiltrating the office.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:2, Insightful)
We switched our e-mail system from pure POP3 (using Netscape) to Lotus Notes about a year and a half ago. Despite all the propaganda we've put in place, there are still people who won't use Notes. Most give me some bull about how "it's too hard, I don't know how to get my mail". I'm pretty confident this is just stubborn whining because the default opening screen in Notes has a gigantic bright yellow envelope, labeled "Mail" in large letters, occupying the upper left corner of the screen. Happily, though, the number of whiners is subject to attrition, and is down to the single digits now.
Most other posters have already discussed decent strategies. Just keep on the propaganda, and be patient.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you ignore the issue of retraining because "Linux Windows Managers are an easy transition" you're quite simply dimwitted.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
You could tell the average windows user they have to save everything on the D drive and you'd encounter at least as much panic as you would switching them to a different OS.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why not *set up* simplified file tools like that for users? Put the most used programs into the panel so they can be called up instantly?
Why not make a corporate or department-wide custom desktop and give your people that instead of a KDE or Gnome default? Why not use some of that Linux GUI flexibility to give your users something *better* for their needs than Windows?
- Robin
Re:Wrong! (Score:3, Informative)
You don't need to explain anything about permissions to users. None at all. Not to use it.
If you are talking about adding/removing packages, Linux is _much_ easier.
It doesn't take 50 pages of doucmentation to run XCDRoast or whatever your vendor ships. My CD Burner autodetected just fine.
In fact, so did my graphics card. Then, when I changed it, it autodetected it again.
Have you used Linux since 1995?
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:2)
I think the retraining issue is important for about 5% of the users, the rest is just FUD.
OpenOffice (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Insightful)
painful transition for the average secretary, but the tech staff didn't care much.
In my opinion, the people who claim to "know" ms office products actually have an arcane set of incantations and bad practices that get the job done. the retraining you speak of should be rephrased as "learning a whole new set of bad heuristics". I haven't really used any ms product since 1997, but when i glace over my shoulder at my wife's work on word, i want to retch at her one-at-a-time modification of paragraph styles, intendation, and so on. And she is considered a small miracle worker amongst her co-workers.
That aside, my migration path away from windows is to get away from the whole what you see is what you get trap. what you see is all you get. Instead,
make everybody use LaTeX, cold turkey, and hire a LaTeX hack to devise a set of document formats for your company---reports, memos, letters, etc. That's how I switched. First MikTeX, then Emacs to use MikTeX, then ghostview to see the
I've been installing MikTeX around the office here on various windows boxes, and the latest setup is pretty nice, and there are some excellent setup instructions linked from that page. Although Emacs has a learning curve, AucTeX is pretty great, and with Flyspell running in the background, Word users can even get their spelling checked as they type.
Re:Cost of retraining? (Score:3, Interesting)
With my knowledge of Windows 3.1, I couldn't figure out anything at all about Windows 95, let alone anything more recent. Had I taken the time to learn Windows 95, I would have had little advantage in learning 2K, let alone XP. Furthermore, there's so much fragmentation in windows software that, when I was using Word at one point, experienced people using the same version on a different computer couldn't explain how to do things.
Cost of retraining is a significant factor, and you shouldn't do it until you have to. But sticking with MicroSoft doesn't reduce the cost, and it means that you'll get hit with it again in 2-3 years.
Move away from Windows or just Office? (Score:5, Interesting)
You're in for a real treat if you're going to try and get an alternative OS going in an environment that's not filled with techies....most of these people took years just to "learn" Windows, Linux (or whatever) is going to be a nightmare for them.
Maybe you should just look into a different office suite.
As a side note, it really bites my ass that M$ is trying to leverage companies into paying more money because of the fear of having to switch to new apps that possibly might be incompatible with other companies' documents. Yet another reason proprietary technology sucks. There needs to be an industry-wide switch to open document formats....RTF and whatever the spreadsheet and presentation software equivalents might be.
Not sure if this works but... (Score:5, Insightful)
With KDE 3 it's really not that hard to learn the OS, how many Windows users use a CMD shell, the same will be true for the average run of the mill Linux user if the GUI is setup right. I have been using KDE3 for a while now and it is at least as easy if not easier than Windows to do just about anything.
If you allow fairly unrestricted Internet access I would make sure that all of the multimedia apps are working correctly, and that flash is working as well. These are big things for the weenies, they want the bells and whistles that Windows provides, and with a good distro they're all there, but they may need some tweaking to get them running flawlessly.
Just my $0.02, but that is what I would do.
Slow transition (Score:5, Interesting)
If you're lucky, your custom apps will run with Wine or can even be compiled with winelib to be native on Linux, even if they are a pain to port to real Linux apps.
If you find you can't effectively transition your apps, you can stick with Windows, but drop Office in favor of Star/Open Office. Even if you get stuck paying more for OS licensing, you'll save a huge bundle on the other licenses. If you do that, just be sure you're very careful with not letting unlicensed copies of MS Office onto your systems, or you'll be in big trouble if a BSA audit comes along.
Re:Slow transition (Score:2)
Has anyone tried that, or plans to do that? How good is the compatibility between OpenOffice & MS Office?
How many complains about unreadable Ms Access databases, or not working Excel forms should the IT department expect?
Re:Slow transition (Score:2)
The need for specialized applications may hamper your getting fully off M$ products. First try them all under Wine, noting sucesses and failures. Contact the software suppliers in question for the ones that don't work and ask when they will have them running under Linux natively or under Linux/Wine. Do so in a respectfull manner, and use company letterhead in all snailmail corespondence. Tell them specifically that your company has made the decision to switch to Linux (even if it isn't true) and you want their app on Linux or you will go elsewhere. Don't forget to mention your position in the company. Embelish it a bit if needed.
Make sure you have licenses for all the installed software, if not remove it from the system.
Why not make it a Sun shop? (Score:5, Interesting)
HTH (Score:5, Informative)
In my experience, it's best to replace your servers with Linux, particularly because end-users tend to be more resistant to change concerning their day-to-day activities. If you're using Windows NT for file and print sharing, then you can easily replace those with Linux and Samba. The user's won't care what the server OS is so long as they have access to their files and printers. Most of your cash outflow can be stopped here. Of course, if you have specialized apps that require MS software (ASP scripts), then you'll need to maintain those, but for pure file and print sharing, you can easily go the Linux/Samba route.
For internet services, you're set. Linux can do everything Windows can and more. For SQL services, you can migrate data from MS SQL to any myriad of free SQL servers available from Linux. Just make sure that your SQL statements are ANSI compliant.
You'll just have to handle these on a case-by-case basis.
For the end users, consider OpenOffice as a replacement for MS Office. There are plenty of good browsers for Linux (Mozilla and Opera) that can replace IE. Eventually, you can get users used to using Linux with KDE/GNOME and still give them the functionality they need.
One caveat: in my experience, leave the accountants alone. They tend to be moody, set in their ways, and can become quite a strain on your happiness if you try to mess with their routines.
The only thing I can offer you advice on are your custom apps. For those you can either just live with the fact that you need MS for them, try to find Open Source alternatives, or if written in-house, consider porting.
I hope this helps you a tiny bit. Best of luck!
Migrating From Windows on the Desktop (Score:2, Insightful)
I would suggest that you proceed slowly. Linux doesn't have the mature GUI that Windows offers and it takes some getting used to. Most non-technical people are inherently disturbed by change - they fear change. My current employer is considering this. We have organized groups by job function. The admin assistants will be going first since word processing, email, etc. are fairly robust for Linux. I suggest that you look at Ximian.com and their Evolution product, namely for the email client. I also suggest AbiWord as a good "Word" replacement. The whole office suite is relatively simple to replace.
Our developers and IT staff, which make a large part of our company, are having difficulty since we use many of those "specalized applications" that you were referring to. We have had some luck with WINE. You might also want to check out Lindows. VMWare is another option, but that still requires a Windows license - however - it wil allow you to run what just became your legacy apps until you can migrate off them as well.
One way ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Whatever you chose professional training and a support deal with the distro manufacturer.
Re:One way ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Support deal: $100 per seat, maybe $10,000 for a site.
Training: $1000 per user, and it probably won't help if it took them years of hands on to learn Windows. You weren't thinking a $50 CompUSA class, were you?
VMWare: $100 per seat plus the windows license.
Plus the work you lose while the enployees away and when they come back and resist the transition.
Those $200 yearly office upgrades don't look so bad when combined with your $1200 per machine transition costs (plus labor costs and $100 "geeks" working to make Wine work "near perfect").
low cost office (Score:5, Funny)
Right now, it's either Wine or whine (Score:2)
How about (IBM/LOTUS) SmartSuite? (Score:3, Interesting)
Good way to show reduction of costs... (Score:5, Funny)
unfortunately .. you dont (Score:3, Informative)
As an experiment some of our more computer literate employees switched to Linux - but in the end had to switch back due to a plethora of small but annoying problems.
These included opening files sent via email
A mid-sized company with around 50 people?!?! (Score:4, Informative)
First, evaluate the alternatives. What applications can be replaced with Linux equivalents and which can't. For the ones that can't, would it be cost-effective to consider limited licensing for those apps and running them from a Windows terminal service with Citrix Metaframe installed? Or would it be cheaper to by VMWare licenses for those users who absolutely have to run some esoteric Windows app.
When the alternatives have been considered, propose a pilot targetting a limited group of users to see whether the can continue their normal work routine on the new platform.
These are all starting points. The tough one is what to do about apps that only exist on Windows and are critical to the job the person is doing.
-David
Re:A mid-sized company with around 50 people?!?! (Score:2)
>those users who absolutely have to run some
>esoteric Windows app.
Well, then you have the cost of the VMWare license, plus the cost of the guest OS, plus the cost of the "esoteric" app.
Well... (Score:2, Informative)
MS is hurting (Score:2)
Re:MS is hurting (Score:2)
Oh that would be *beautiful*... my immediate response: Oh! That makes the decision much simpler - we'll just migrate to Linux and save lots of $$$. Retraining is no worse than training people to use M$ products anyway (probably less in the long run).
It Really Depends On What You Do (Score:2, Insightful)
It's the applications stupid (Score:2)
Last time I tried staroffice it was good, but not 100%, which isn't surprising, MS office itself isn't 100%.
But what about CAD, you must use the exact same program, and VERSION, along with handfuls of specific apps.
There is also the ever common MS Access Databases (which are quite nice for many simple tasks).
Not to mention the crazy Calculation programs most larger technical companies have, heck I still use some DOS programs regularly.
With Microsofts past history more companies are getting scared to just upgrade, they evaluate whether EVERY application works properly and take it nice and slow, moving to Linux would be quite a jump. It likely is quite a bit cheaper to just pay $2k/yr and stay with MS
The Laundry List (Score:2)
StarOffice 6.0 (get the supported version from Sun) $76.95/user
Mozilla 1.0 or Netscape 6.2.3 (1.0 will be out end of month)
SunONE Calendar Server 5.1 (formerly iPlanet, formerly Netscape) web interface, email integration $30/user
Cyrus IMAP 2.x (available with most distros)
OpenLDAP 2.0.xx (available with most distros also needed for the Calender Server)
pam_ldap (available with most distros)
Your fave distro with a recent version of Samba
Use the LDAP server for centralized user management, the Samba server for file sharing and authentication for the Windows boxes. The Calendar Server + Cyrus + OpenLDAP should make a nifty Exchange Server Replacement.Of course, don't forget Sendmail, which has some nifty integration with LDAP too.
All relavent documentation for doing this should be available on the web, mailing list archives and such.
You will need a Sparc, HP-UX or WinNT 4.0 box for the Calendar Server, but that should run you less than $1K for an older UltraSparc or around $1K for one of the new mini servers Sun is selling now.
So, total cost of migration (minus Labor)
~$1K for Sparc box
$106.95/user for software
~$70 Your favorite distro
10 users for less than $2500 plus Labor if you recycle existing hardware..... not bad, what's that? 1 Win2K Server License + 1 Copy of Exchange 2000 without the client licenses or the Office licenses?
Oh yeah, and now you can manage the servers via dial-up over ssh. Sweet!!!!!
Stick with what you have for now... (Score:2)
Read this article [com.com] on CNet. In your case, forget the Software Assurance program and buy OEM licenses from your vendors. The cost increases that Gartner is factoring are for the retail copies of Windows and Office -- OEM copies are usually about 60% of that price.
Microsoft's licensing changes have pissed off a lot of customers, and a lot of those customers are migrating off Windows and onto Linux on their servers (because heck, it's $999 for Windows 2000 Server and migrating to Samba/Linux doesn't involve much retraining for your users.)
I would be hesitant to push users off of Windows and Office at this point, especially if I had an all-Windows 2000 shop. With only 50 users, you can get a VAR to hook you up with OEM copies of the latest and greatest Windows/Office at any time without buying in to the Software Assurance program. Thus, I wouldn't worry too much about licensing changes. If you want to see the greatest benefit with the least migration cost, put your web and workgroup servers on Linux.
The desktops, however, are often more trouble than they are worth. I'd leave them alone if I were you. The migration and training costs just aren't worth it at this point. The best thing you can do is just to get them all on the same version of Windows (2000) and Office (2000 or XP) and leave them alone from there. You can look at it again in a couple of years.
We're thinking of the same thing. (Score:2)
-cpd
Alternatives: Wait, Macs, WordPerfect (Score:2)
If you must upgrade, what about Apple Mac's? Is the Office licensing the same for Office for MacOS?
Another alternative: WordPerfect. The word processor is just as good, if not better than Word; the drawback is that the spreadsheet, while decent for many tasks, isn't suited for power Excel users. The last two versions of WP even run VB.
StarOffice (Score:2)
Now to be honest, I haven't looked at SO in about a year, so things might have changed since then. But my impression (as a very long time Word/Excel user) was that the program was not up to snuff. On equivilent hardware it took forever and a day just to start up, the user interface is radically different than office products, and it just had a very clunky feel to it. Now the first two issues don't speak to whether SO is actually _better_, just different enough to create a learning curve. A learning curve that it will be hard to get the average user to try to tackle without a pretty darn good reason. I think that this will be your biggest hurdle. Saving a few bucks here or there is important only to the bean counters. And if those bean counters are going to be forced to switch from Excel (which most know quite intimately) to SO, then they might not be so quick to want to switch.
Simplify the task bar, menus, desktop (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a small change to the way KDE and Gnome look, but I think it's an important change: the typical Gnome taskbar along the bottom is three times as big as Windows users are used to, and is cluttered with a bunch of useless toys. Get rid of everything except the buttons that indicate which programs are running, and of course the button that users think of as the "start" button.
The default menus in most distros are also way too extensive. They tend to have the same thing several times in several places. Pick the dozon or so programs your users generally need and put them in the main "start" menu. Hide the rest in a single "advanced" menu, or even get rid of the menu items altogether.
Put icons for the most important programs right on the desktop: Spreadsheet, Word Processor (not "Text Document" like Open Office says), etc.
By default, don't allow multiple desktops. Users who are advanced enough to understand the concept will know to ask you for it.
Finally, sit and watch users play with the system. Note any place that they frown and get confused. Don't believe self-deprecatory excuses that they just don't know what they're doing and they're sure the system is fine: if they don't know how to do something it's the systems' fault for not being easy enough.
Minesweeper and Freecell (Score:5, Funny)
Windows=Linux (Score:3, Informative)
I'm slowly migrating to Linux at my company. So far it's going pretty well. We had to add an extra box to everyone's desk in the call center due to [Non-Disclosure Agreement], so I spent $1000 for some old P233MMX w/64MB RAM, slapped Linux on them, and the users went to town.
After a couple of months with Linux in production I have to say that it's going well. Help desk calls are waaaaay down and users are happy. I've said this before, but here goes: users don't remember the last time they rebooted the Linux box, but sure remember the last time they rebooted Windows.
We're replacing Windows boxes right now by attrition, but plan to replace them all by the end of the year - OS, not hardware.
Since Office runs on Linux now it's at least theoretically possible to standardize on Open Office or something internally and have a single box with a single MS Office license converting both incoming and outgoing attachments to and from MS office format. When an open-source conversion utility comes out, you'll probably be able to abandon MS Office altogether but keep compatability with others.
Be aware that Citrix ain't really that cheap a solution. You'll pay through the nose for licenses (application licenses for each connectd user, terminal server client access licenses for each connection, citrix licenses for each user, and connection licenses for each computer). You have to get licenses for client machines (unless they're Windows 2k or XP which have their own) that connect to a Citrix server, which defeats the financial purpose of replacing Windows with Linux.
a link: win2k and linux for office environments (Score:3, Informative)
Here is a quote:
Still, in my opinion, the great majority of end-users is still too dumb and this will cause you greater troubles, at least with all the time you will waste trying to explain'em that No, You Can'T Have A Dancing Lady On Your Desktop, And Even If You Were In A Windows Environment You Just Cannot Install It And Later Complain Because You Got a Virus!
However, have fun.Great report with lots of cost saving reports (Score:2, Informative)
http://www.dwheeler.com/oss_fs_why.html
Our Company has Done it. (Score:3, Interesting)
Disclosure: we are an engineering company, so we have been doing some things on UNIX for a long time.
Having said that, our current mix is around 85% non-MS and 15% MS. For our engineering tasks, we use software that never did come from MS (although it was supported on the Windows platform, even though we never used it on Windows). For most of our "office" tasks, we use StarOffice 5.2 and will be moving to 6.0. All of this is now running on Linux based PCs.
The 15% MS portion is mainly for certain cases where we must use the same tool as our customer, and the customer want's to use MS tools (mostly spec. and project management related).
All-in-all, it works pretty well, and it definitely shaves $$ off your overhead costs, not to mention reduced audit worries.
Business cases... (Score:2)
Microsoft can't force you to upgrade your existing software, so take your time. Set up a couple of test Linux desktop systems (KDE looks/works like Windows) with OpenOffice 1.0 or StarOffice 6.0 (if you want/need things like templates) and Netscape 6.2 maybe, Gabber for instant-messaging, and look into Evolution if you need a Microsoft email/calendar workalike.
Then setup Wine (or CrossOver Office) for the few specialized applications and get them working well. Clone your desktop system for a few recruits (managers, if possible) and do some hand holding, er... training, until they're comfortable.
After that, it shouldn't be too painful to move the rest of the company onto all-Linux desktops. If you can avoid future rounds of Microsoft taxes for WindowsXP/OfficeXP (and later) this way, you will save about $700/user, or almost $35,000 _per year_. You'll save more if you replace those Sun machines with Linux, too, instead of upgrades.
users will complain (Score:2, Interesting)
So, try to figure out how to motivate people to use the new software. Maybe you can arrange for people to share in the financial rewards of the switch (a small raise for all the MS Office users, financed from the license savings). If people see and share in the financial benefits, that might motivate them. On the other hand, if they are forced by decree to use something they consider inferior, it's going to be a disaster.
Also consider introducing it gradually over the next year, requiring to use StarOffice for some peripheral business processes and getting people used to it without forcing them to switch cold.
I would probably go with StarOffice (as opposed to the free suites), though. That's not because StarOffice is necessarily better, it's because you can point out that this is a commercial program, developed and supported by a large software company. You probably don't want to fight the "switch from Office" and "switch to open source software" battles at the same time. Once your users accept StarOffice, you can then still switch to OpenOffice.
Migrating from Linux to Windows (Score:2, Interesting)
I suggest you to spend 20 USD in CD-R and burn copies of OpenOffice, then start distribuiting throught our your perzonel and tel them to do some test days where all their activities will be done completely in OpenOffice and they can migrate their data more confortably.
Gnome, StarOffice and SunRays or Macs?. (Score:2)
Apple Macintoshes may be a better fit you can have the MS Office on it and still have a pricing structure that is not unreasionable. Keep in mind that any migration will cost more money in the short term. With training and and remakes of custom software but they will pay for them selfs in time.
Minimum size to switch. (Score:2)
Large companies are an excelent target for Linux.
Small to medium (50-500)sized companies are a good target as well. The right people for the job are going to be more expensive than you are used to though. Time to read mythical man month.
When it comes to small companies smaller than 50 my advice is when you are big enough to justify a full time IT person, then it is time to consider it. The market isn't big enough (yet) to ask your neighboor for help with Linux, so you really can't attempt a switch with a part time computer guy.
Unless that part timer happens to know Linux and Windows well.... In which case you should give him a raise because he isn't long for such a small operation. He will be offered a job he can't refuse RSN.
I am doing the same thing !!! (Score:2, Interesting)
the first thing I did was bring in a linux. I have been able to easily manage the T1 for security, block inappropriate sites, and watch usage and traffic with Zero downtime
Yesterday our new server came in a Dual Athlon 360gig Raid5 monster! I will now integrate all the M$ servers, but one to this single server.
Third step is to switch the ERP system.. and here is where the trick comes in. We will get a new ERP system that runs a java client instead of a M$ client. that will leave the desktops only needing M$Office. to conduct business. we will have to look at Code Weavers CrossOver plugin and at Staroffice6.0 and see which is the better solution. when switching to Linux on the desktop we will of course go Thin client. this will dramatically cut administration cost. and save allot of man power.
In the engineering department we will be going to linux and ProE. YES ProE for Linux!! ProE for linux will be release at the end of this year. We will run redhat with acceleratedX drivers. just to keep it simple. (I don't think Xfree86 ever has full FireGL support any how). and then we are done
Start using standard file formats (Score:4, Insightful)
A lot of it just comes down to file formats. If you can't switch now, then at least you can make it easier to switch later: have your users start saving their stuff to standardized formats instead of closed proprietary lock-in formats. Yes, OpenOffice can read MS Word files, but just about everything can read RTF, and RTF has all the functionality needed, 99% (subjective) of the time.
Once you get out of needing dead-end tools, you'll be in a better position to be able to use whatever you want to.
Start doing it now, even if you don't ever intend to break free of MS. Standard files might even be more compatable with future MS products than today's lock-in formats will be.
Here is some advice from someone actively doing it (Score:3, Informative)
Ask what doesn't work (Score:3, Interesting)
I would install as many alternatives as you can, and make them the default. Open a doc in staroffice, and things should work. You can get at word, but not without going through a wrapper that requires you to email what staroffice cannot do that you need. Users will try to use staroffice where they can, where it fails they will tell you what doesn't work.
Or to save even more money, just start migrating people to linux/kde/koffice, after verifying that their applications will work.
Remember, you are a company, you have work to get done. Find out what tasks you really need to do, and then find a linux program to do it. For those who only use a few features of Word this is easy, koffice is there already. For those who need something complex, you might need wine, or devolpe your own solution.
Do not forget to do some practice runs. Take your backups, restore them to a equivelent systems, and convert that system to linux with the old data, and run some fake transactions. (be careful not to get this data into the real world). And don't convert anyone before a major deadline. Accounting gets converted right after payday, and nowhere near april 15th!
You don't have a hurry now, if the BSA does come knocking, or Microsoft does start demanding unreasonable fees, you have a plan in place to convert quickly, otherwise just convert as an open source alteranative is just as good as the windows equivelent. (Note, I said just as good for your pruposes, and Not as good. If you never use some feature, then there is no reason to wait for it)
two cents (Score:3, Informative)
For word processing I like AbiWord. The 1.0.1 version has just been released and it works quite well. It doesn't have *every* feature of word, no sane program would, but it does have all the features needed for general word processing.
I don't have much use for spreadsheets, but Gnumeric and kspread have worked fine for me. People have also mentioned that OpenOffice/StarOffice has a good spreadsheet.
For reading email there's Evolution, Netscape or Mozilla Messenger, and various others.
For database, use MySQL or PostgreSQL as the backend instead of access. Use HTML as a frontend so you can access it from any system, even Windows.
For webmail, take a look at squirrelmail. There are many other imap/pop/mtas that you can choose from to create your mail server. Of course, you'll replace IIS with Apache
For viruses you'll need to use the Unix honor system. su to root, choose a file at random then delete it, then email everyone in your address book with similar instructions. To mimic the crashes you can try turning off the power when you're in the middle of something very important.
I'm not migrating. (Score:3, Funny)
Migrating from Windows to Linux (Score:3, Informative)
Well, you must have realistic goals like: Reduce software costs, provide a stable environment, reduce support costs etc...
If you want to use Linux as the OS, you may get some opposition from the Windows fans. So, migrate using a gradual approach.
After you do all these things... the stability and usability of the user and server software should be evident and the switch to Linux as the OS should be fairly painless as there are Linux equivalents to the programs they've been running on the old Windows installations. You may find you have made some Linux fans in the office too!
The change is easy if you have the right catalyst (Score:4, Interesting)
he then asked me if there was another solution, and I wipped out my Redhat 7.3 laptop with open office..
Guess what... we're gonna switch to NON-MS.. all thanks to the BSA.
so basically... Use Microsoft's and the BSA's tactics to your advantage... push the fear,loathing and threats they are pushing... keep mentioning the 100,000 dollar fine PER incident. that the companies sensitive data will be accessable by strangers during the BSA visit, and the business disruption and public notification by the BSA that XYZ company STEALS.
works great..... Thanks Microsoft and the BSA for the BEST tools a Linux Advocate could ever want.
12-step program for a Microsoft-free shop (Score:5, Informative)
It's a very thorough overview of all the major steps (technical, mental, emotional, you name it) that an office must pass through in order to successfully dump Microsoft. It'll be very helpful to your cause.
Not as bad as it sounds (Score:5, Informative)
- Bring the users into the decision, not only what software to use but why.
- 3rd party training for software other than MS Office is available, even if not listed in their course lists. Ask. Our local Productivity Point has personnel qualified to teach the Lotus software and has complete course materials, they just don't list it in their offerings because there's so little demand. They were delighted to teach the courses for our users, at very reasonable cost.
- Having a backup process leads to user comfort. We'll still have four people with MS Office on their PCs, mostly administrative assistants and a lead customer service person. Their primary purpose is to provide access to documents which don't get converted by the time we remove Office from everyone else's PCs and to convert documents from outside the company which for one reason or another won't convert to Lotus cleanly using the Lotus software. This is a real benefit to our users and we wouldn't have gotten their buy-in without being able to assure them that we weren't abandoning their old documents.
- Don't rush the process. We started out by giving our users 60 days to convert their old documents to Lotus. We'll end up giving them an additional 30 days on a case-by-case basis. We installed Lotus on user's PCs in addition to MS Office so they could get used to the new software gradually. Once a user has been to training we made it clear that all new documents were expected to be in Lotus format. They have both the incentive and the training to make the change and it is working out very well. On the other hand, there has to be a due date or nothing will get done!
Our users initially resisted changing and why not? Learning new software, even as simple a change as from MS Word to Lotus Word Pro, is intimidating to someone who views computers as a tool rather than a way of life. We overcame their resistance by putting the facts before them: the lifecycle cost of MS Office over the next three years vs. the lifecycle costs (including training!) of switching to Lotus, Corel, etc. The savings were really very dramatic, particularly for a company like us which tends to keep using old software for much longer than the vendor would really like. Since we're a pretty open company anyway and take pains to not only present financial information to everyone but teach them how to interpret it as well, this had an impact. When you put it like, "we can spend the money on MS Office software and upgrade desktop PCs every five years, or switch to an alternative and keep to our three-year cycle", everyone had the same answer. They *like* getting new PCs every three years. The admin assistants *like* using shiny new Thinkpads which they can take to meetings and access information or take minutes with wireless connections to the LAN, etc. All of the productivity and convenience improvements we've made over the past five years took capital to implement, capital which in no small part would have gone into simply maintaining the software they already had. They didn't want to do that.
Once the decision was made we immediately chose a dozen key users and sent them off to a special Lotus SmartSuite class we had developed with our local Productivity Point franchise. A combination of the Introductory and Intermediate classes, it assumed that everyone knew how to use a mouse, access pop-up menus, etc. and concentrated on the differences between MS Word and Lotus WordPro, Excel vs. 1-2-3, and Powerpoint vs. Harvard Graphics. The class lasted three days and we had a very enthusiastic (and very relieved!) team when they got back, confident that they knew what they were doing and how to do it. They've been evangelists to the rest of the organization to the point where people were competing to get into the next class! A month into the process, people were competing to see who could be more 'MS Office free' and new documents were all being generated using the Lotus software. That was a month before the deadline! Now when someone from outside the company sends us a Word document (non of which, by the way, we've had the least trouble converting to Lotus,) people grumble about how 'backward' other companies are. Those who have regular contact with MS Office users outside the company are now evangelizing them and rumor has it that at least a couple of our business partners, faced with the same costs we were facing, are considering the same move away from MS Office.
The key is not that the Lotus software is so good but rather that it is good enough and *much* less expensive (and a key to that is that we buy IBM notebooks and desktop PCs, mostly because of their terrific technical support, and SmartSuite comes free with them. A real savings, that!)
Difficulties in our project:
- Some MS Office documents do not convert very well to Lotus. Most Word and Excel documents do (in the case of Excel, usually needing at least some clean-up by hand,) and Powerpoint presentations don't convert nicely at all. Don't even think about converting MS Access to Approach (but then, think about it: do you really trust anything more complex than a grocery list to Access? If its really important, shouldn't it have a real database behind it?)
- Some people just don't like change. We've got a couple. Peer pressure works most of the time but we have one granite boulder who not only isn't going to change, is senior enough that it would take tippy-top management ordering him to before he would, and then he'd just sabotage it ("See? Told you so!") Not a real problem, though: he doesn't really use the computer for anything other than e-mail, anyway (and half the time he dictates replies to e-mail to his admin assistant.) His assistant is very happy with Lotus and buffers between him and the rest of the company, so it works out.
Good luck!
Why do anything? (Score:4, Informative)
What about the option no one seems to consider? Stick with what you have right now. It works today...it will still work tomorrow. Get out of the "gotta have the latest" mindset.
For most of what business users do, using software that is a year or two or five old is just fine.
Re:Open Office (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:New MAC Server (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:New MAC Server (Score:2)
Because there is a Windows version...
Yes they are better (Score:2)
The simple answer is yes, you can do nearly everything through the GUI. I found that, I only had to move away from the GUI when I was doing non-standard things. For example I wanted to download a cutting edge version of a piece of software that had to be compiled. So, yeah I had to bring up a command-line to manage that. Overall though I think that anything I'd normally be able to do under windows I could do under Linux with no need of a command line.
Re:The other way around (Score:3, Interesting)
Before you go all crazy, at least try a Mac running OS X, first. If you like it enough, you'll have the best of both worlds: Soft chewy desktop supported by a name-brand computer maker, with a crunchy Unix backbone.
You may never have considered a Mac before, but you might like it now--it's worth at least a look.
Re:The other way around (Score:5, Interesting)
For over a year or so I'm thinking of moving from Linux to windows. Why? Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
For the last couple of months I've noticed an increasing amount of posts on Slashdot from people subtly promoting Microsoft and putting down Linux. They say just the right things to make sure their posts don't get modded down, but essentially try to persuade people to think the types of things Microsoft wants them to think.
Here's a very interesting article [guardian.co.uk] from the UK Guardian about corporations using fake people on newsgroups and email forums to rubbish their opponents. They use companies who promise to be very discrete and do it in such a way that it is very difficult to link the individuals back to the company concerned. The article cites the case of this type of tactics being used by Monsanto. Is it really so difficult to believe that Microsoft might pay one of these companies to post anti-Linux comments on sites like Slashdot? Read the article.
Your problem (Score:2)
Stop installing kernels and leave your system alone. Damn. Use whatever kernel your distro has deemed "Stable" and stick with it. If you keep tossing pre-this and pl-that on there OF COURSE it's going to crash...
Right now, I can't keep my development pc running for more than a week because of some application that leaks memory and uses up my entire memory after a few days.
Perhaps you, being a developer should take a look at the source code and assist in resolving the memory leak, or at the least report your experience to the maintainer(s) of the app so they can correct the problem. Community support means just that.
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.
I just love it when I encounter yet another website that adheres to industry standards and renders perfectly in mozilla, konqeror, opera...
Re:The other way around (Score:3, Insightful)
Because of the stability and usability. Windows 2000 and XP appear to be very stable and no one can deny that they are lightyears ahead of anything on linux when it comes to desktop comfort.
This is only your personal preference. I use both KDE and windows daily, and I prefer having the multiple desktops and clean GUI of KDE. Because I know how to use Linux (translate: know what I want to do), I find the KDE interface easier to use. I also find it more aesthetically pleasing - how many Windows boxes have active backgrounds?
I just hate it when I encounter yet another website that doesn't load using Konqueror, mozilla, opera... you fill in the blanks. I just hate it that I can't play movies on my linux machine without five days of intensive configuration battles.The main problem I've found with Linux is that it is a chore to configure, but once you've got it configured correctly, nothing breaks. Contrast this with Windows, where botched application installation can break pieces throughout the entire system. Correcting a bad install in Linux may involve little more than editing a text file; in Windows, you may have to reinstall the OS, reregister with Microsoft, and reinstall every application that you use. I've spent countless hours doing this, and even though I hate vi and editing text files, I have to admit that I prefer the Linux/UNIX method of editing a few lines to the 8+ hour complete system reinstalls I have to do with Windows.
Someone once said there's no such thing as a free lunch. With Linux, it's reliable, and it's free, but if you want to play movies, you may have to spend a substantial amount of time downloading and configuring the application, and then reading the documentation, fixing bugs, and recompiling. With Windows, you pay for a system which basically takes all of these things out of your way, but at great risk; if the software is buggy, or the install fails, it could break the entire system. There is simply no recourse for a botched install - if you're lucky, you might get away with reinstalling only the application(s) affected. If not, you could end up reinstalling the entire OS.
And I haven't even begun to talk about virus/security issues. If you value your data, Linux might be your only option (either that or a constant backup plan...)
When one thinks about the system as a whole, Windows is only suitable for people who want to use the PC as an entertainment device - people who rely on the integrity of their data and the security of their computer systems should not run Windows. Use Windows for games - use Linux for serious computing.
I second that (Score:2)
However, I'd rather spend my free time doing something fun than spend it fscking around with what passes for a GUI under any x86 Unix. Applications just work under Win2k and XP and I don't need to become an X/kde/gnome/qt guru to make it happen.
I think there's room for both.