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Linux Business

Vistasource In Trouble 60

Posted by Hemos from the what's-gonna-happen-to-the-big-people? dept.
starseeker writes: "It looks like the financial picture is not good for Applix - "the company intends to report VistaSource as a discontinued operation in its audited financial statements." The financial report is online. What happens to Applixware Office now?" For the backstory: Vistasource is the division of Applix - we've talked about this before. Still with the various K* options, the G* options, and OpenOffice the competition is tough - not to mention Abiword and all the others.
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Vistasource In Trouble More

Vistasource In Trouble

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  • Re:business model (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    VA was a simple stock market scam from the start.

    They will be out of business within 2 years. Redhat is a better bellweather for the "open source industry" but even they went public _WAY_ too early. People seem to forget that SUSE (not publically traded) is quite profitable right now.

  • Maybe you should tell that to Red Hat (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Red Hat is going to be profitable by the end of this year.

    From their most recent quarterly filing released on 12 January 2001:

    We expect to incur substantial losses for the foreseeable future.

    We have incurred operating losses in five of our previous six fiscal years, including our most recent fiscal year ended February 29, 2000. We expect to incur significant losses for the foreseeable future, as we substantially increase our sales and marketing, research and development and administrative expenses. In addition, we are investing considerable resources in our web initiative and to expand our professional services offerings. As a result, we cannot be certain when or if we will achieve sustained profitability. Failure to become and remain profitable may adversely affect the market price of our common stock and our ability to raise capital and continue operations.

    You were saying?

  • Re:Then Windows is failing, too... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    Forget long-term these Linux-related companies aren't even making short-term profits. It's all just one big waste of time.

  • Re:What business model? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'll bet you had fun with fonts, too. Boy, does Linux blow goats when it comes to fonts. And yes, I use XFree 4.

    The worst of Applix, though, is the office staff doesn't respond to those who send in the warranty cards. Looking at #2, they must not know how to do a mail merge. They're like the bratty grandkids who never send a thank you note for their graduation money. They are really dumb.

    Doc Searls is right about the conversation part of the sales transaction. It's called marketing, people.

    And I hope some witless moderator ups the count on the previous post, he's obviously used the product.

  • Business models (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    This is yet more evidence that you can't make money JUST by selling free software, or competing with free software. You have to make enough revenue from things like support contracts, consulting fees for custom work (as Cygnus did for years before RH bought them), service subscriptions (as Eazel plans to do), or something else. If you're selling free software or competing with a reasonably similar product that's free, you simply can't sell at a price high enuogh to make money.

    Some companies, like IBM, are able to lose money on their Linux involvement but use it to generate enough additional revenue in other areas (hardware sales, in particular) that the net effect is increased profit. But that's rare, and most companies will have to go the services/subscriptions/consulting route or give up.

  • What business model? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They took up the original DOS model of the 80s - It's uses are limited only by your imagination. Translation - we couldn't think of anything to do with it, either.

    As a proud owner and distributer of multiple licensed copies, I have the following observations:

    1.) It had a nice email client. Trouble is, no documetation existed anywhere, and the company would answer no questions about it, so we couldn't ever get it to do much.

    2.) The primary purpose of a word processor is MAIL MERGING letters to clients, customers, and others who send you money. And mail merge it out of a contact database. I was never able to figure out how to do this, not from a dBase file, an SQL file, either My or PostGres, not from anything. And the company would answer no questions about it.

    3.) Applix Words couldn't handle handle jpg or gif. Duh. When would this be included? Don't ask.

    4.) They had little SHELF modules to retrieve stock quotes and weather, where could I find them? Right, we don't have an answer.

    Do you see a common theme here? They could have sponsored a book on it, like MS and Borland do, and open source projects finally are (the Momjian book on PostgreSQL is a helluva book for beginners, by the way, atta boy Bruce), but they were to lazy to do it.

    So another stupidly run company bites the dust. What a bunch of idiots, the investors were, to let these morons squander their capital. The only hope is to GPL it, and even that isn't a sure bet.

  • another moron has no clue.

  • First of all Applix doesn't have any open source products. They happen to have an office suite that runs on Linux, but nowadays everyone has an office suite that runs on Linux (and most of those applications are free as in free beer). You don't see a lot of people making money selling air either, and that's because the competition (the atmosphere) is under-cutting them. In 1995, however, Applix was pretty much the entire market for Linux office suites. Their decision to keep their code probably seemed like a good idea then, but it has doomed their product in the long run.

    Open source businesses are about making money. And in fact, most are doing a pretty good job of it. After all, without Linux and the Free Software that is available for Linux RedHat and VA Linux and the rest wouldn't even exist. Yet here they are with millions of dollars in revenue, and most will probably even reach profitability on a scale that would have been impossible if they were using the old proprietary software model. Honestly, those folks wouldn't have had a snowballs chance in hell in getting the types of contracts they have been able to grab without Free Software. Linux clearly is good for business in that sense. More importantly, Linux is good for it's users. I know that I have saved thousands of dollars with Linux.

    The difference, long term, is whether or not service and support is a viable business to be in. It's almost certainly not going to be as viable a business as selling binary-only software, but that's just life. Ten years from now no one is going to pay money for the right to run an Office Suite or an OS, in much the same way that no one pays for a text editor today. These types of computer software will merely become part of the infrastructure.

    Applix simply didn't offer customers enough of an incentive to use their software, and now they are done. However, their Free Software competitors are still around, and they are looking around for fresh blood as well. My guess is that Corel is going to have a hard time convincing people that using Perfect Office is a good idea as well. Windows users will continue to gravitate to MS Office, and the rest of us will probably end up using something like Abiword/Gnumeric or Open Office.

  • It's no surprise that Applixware couldn't make money. Their plan was to be the Unix Office, and too many people thought that Office was such basic functionality that it should be free and were working hard to make that so. Finally, Sun freed StarOffice and Applixware's fate was sealed.

    If you aren't going to be Open Source, it had better be software so special that you don't have competition, or an Open Source project might come along and eat your lunch. This means your product should probably be in a vertical market, not something everybody needs, or something that really does not work in the Open Source model (like TurboTax). And never try to compete with the Linux folks at systems programming, it's what they are best at.

    Sure, this limits how much money you can make selling Linux software. We like it that way, and we are getting all of the software that we need, thank you.

    Thanks

    Bruce

  • > Here's the fact - YOU CAN'T
    > MAKE MONEY FROM LINUX

    Tell that to all the Sysadmins in academia. :)
  • Applixware is powerful, flexible... and eccentric. It was one thing four years ago when they made the only full-featured office productivity suite for Unix. It's quite another nowadays with StarOffice 5.x on the market. StarOffice has a UI easy to transition to from mainstream office suites, it offers an implementation of VBA as a macro language and a lower cost per seat (free, if you don't want ot trust vendor support).

    It didn't help when Applix spun it off into a new division with a new name and didn't do any marketing whatsoever to inform anyone that the product still existed, or where to find it. A cryptic "Vistasource" logo tucked away on the Applix website doesn't cut it.

    Anyware, their thin-client solution, beat Sun, Microsoft, Corel et al to the market by four years and counting. It was written in Java and actually works! However, Applix made accessing the demo difficult and confusing, and must have spent $30 on marketing it.

    On a side note, what exactly does Abiword pose a threat to? Windows Wordpad? Netscape Composer? Surely not to a word processor. Wake me up when it does tables. And floating footnotes.
  • OpenOffice is not a complete product yet. For one thing, you can't print from Unixish operating systems yet. It also seemed fairly unstable, the last time I tried it (609).

    Oh, and it's not released under GPL. It's released under Sun's own license (I don't know the details) so Sun gets special privelages (like closing up the source again).
  • I'm fully aware of that. That's why I said it wasn't a complete product yet. :-)

    And I wasn't completely aware of the licensing situation. My mistake.
  • I purchased Applix 5.0 several months ago and use it regularly. It is excellent for spread sheets and document editing, and can import and export to many, many formats including most if not all of those obsceneties foisted upon us by Microsoft.

    The company is looking to sell the division, not kill the product, indeed, they said as much (follow the next link, search on string "VistaSource Response") in the last round of round of rumor mongering [slashdot.org] here at slashdot.

    There are no plans to discontinue Applix, just to sell it. As with any sale, this may or may not kill the product, depending on whome it is sold to. Even if the product were to be bought (by, say Microsoft) and subsequently killed, the capability to export to so many different file formats makes exporting spreadsheets, documents, etc. into a format something else (like K-office, gnome office, or whatever) understands easy to do.

    When one of the open source (read: unkillable) projects reaches the same level of stability, interoperability, and polished design I will consider switching, but until then I find Applix 5.0 an excellent choice for doing my office related stuff without rebooting into Windoze (and much prefer it to the other suite which began its life as a commercial product, namely StarOffice).
  • I can open up Word, and just start typing what I want to see, sprinkle in a few bits of formatting and hit print, all within 30 seconds.

    LaTEX just doesn't allow you to do that. You can't just drag images into it either.

    It may well be great for massive documents, but I wouldn't have secretaries type up letters on it.
    _____
  • From http://www.cosource.com/company/index.html [cosource.com]
    Cosource.com is a web service of VistaSource

    Anyone know the impact?

    http://www.rocketaware.com/ [rocketaware.com] has over 30,000 links to
    source, libraries, functions, applications, and documentation.

  • Applixware Office is not free software. It is a traditional closed-source, proprietary software product that just happens to run on Linux and use GTK+ [gtk.org] as it's widget set.

    So, what "proof of a broken business model" was that again?

  • There was a Framemaker beta like 5.5 or something for Linux but later they anounced that it won't become a real product because of not enough interest.
  • > Here's the fact - YOU CAN'T
    > MAKE MONEY FROM LINUX!

    SuSE is making money.
    Red Hat is going to be profitable by the end of this year.
    There's a lot of consultants around implementing Linux Solutions. They make money.

    Yes, it's difficult making money selling gratis software, so you should focus on selling added value.

    > Linux is by hackers for hackers remember?

    No. Linux is fun for hackers. It's fun to hack, but it's also working. That means it's out there to get a job done.

    To stay on topic: Applix is used to get a job done: producing documents. Unfortunately for Applix, there's a lot of Free alternatives, so they have to focus on selling added value.

    --
  • Framemaker has been around quite a while and has the added benefit of using the same GUI interface on Windows, Mac and Unix. I believe it only runs on 3 Unix flavors: Sun, AIX & HP-UX. No Linux release.

    I strongly recommend using Framemaker for writing large documents such as manuals, textbooks or novels. It is the favorite choice among technical writers when a GUI is preferred. The SGML version adds the ability to write content without needing to know if the output is going to be print, web or CD media. It can also publish to XML or PDF.

    Framemaker 6.0 is currently available from Adobe for $799. It is worth the price if you are getting paid real money to do write the docs. Software companies that value their Tech Writers time and effort have standardized on Frame.

  • Recently, we have received several inquiries concerning statements made in Applix's most recent press announcement, particularly regarding the use of the term ?discontinued operations?. Confusion has been expressed and and concern has been raised as a result of the following excerpt: "In December 2000 the Company entered into discussions with several possible buyers and expects to consummate a divestiture or otherwise discontinue the business in the first quarter of 2001." If you have consistently followed VistaSource through 2000, you will recall two key announcements: * April 24th press release launching VistaSource as a wholly-owned subsidiary of Applix. * October 19th press release announcing the engagement of FAC/Equities to explore strategic alternatives for VistaSource, including its possible divestiture. VistaSource has been on a path to divest from Applix throughout the year 2000. In December, this culminated in discussions with possible buyers. The term "discontinued operations" is a common legal and finance term used in these situations and should not raise concern about VistaSource's long term viability. Our Anyware offering is a leading technology from which we offer customizable, web-enabled, server centric, real-time solutions, and we will continue to focus our business to grow in this market segment. The exercises over the past twelve months have further focused our business on our key differentiators as we look to grow to prominence in 2001. We look forward to your continued support and to your business in the future. Best Regards, Allison Antalek Marketing Communications VistaSource, Inc.
  • I don't see what all the whining is about these graphical word processors. LaTeX is the best thing in the world. Once I started LaTeX, I never went back to any word processor. Why? Because LaTeX doesn't look like shit and doesn't bog memory, and makes clean, beautiful documents.
  • download this: template.tex [pitt.edu]

    if you want an figure uncomment the image portion at the bottem and stick it where you want it. same for tables and equations.


    use LaTeX? want an online reference manager that
  • The moderation has gone to hell recently.. I've had some *REALLY* on-topic posts being marked "off topic", probably because the moderator didn't read the article or my post properly.. I've seen lots of good posts being moderated down recently for no good reason other than the moderator not agreeing with the posters opinion. I really wish moderators would focus on moderating good posts *UP* and moderating pure shit ("first post", "beowulf cluster", "goat sex" etc.) down. Moderating something "off topic" is almost always a waste of moderation points anyway, since there are bigger fish to catch.

  • Re:business model (Score:4)

    by macpeep ( 36699 ) on Monday January 29, 2001 @03:17AM (#473829)
    After the news on VA Linux and RedHat, it seems to me that a business model built on Open Source software seems more and more difficult.

    I don't know.. I'm one of those people who are interested in Linux and Open Source in general and appreciate the availability of source code (and may even contribute once in a while) but who don't see it as a silver bullet suitable for everything. I for one have never really believed that open source is a good business model and seeing all kinds of "open source companies" (that is, companies that have an open source related business model) fail only confirms my belief.

    While some older companies like IBM might have some use of open source (their ventures into Apache and use of Linux for example), I see it largely as a PR manouver.

    I recently read The Cluetrain Manifesto (www.cluetrain.com) and some of the stuff really hit me while a large part didn't. I mean, yeah, I believe companies should have conversations with the market, like open source does, and yeah, I believe in subverting hierarchy, something open source accomplishes, and yes, companies don't speak in a human voice, which open source does, but businesses need to keep secrets and everything can't and shouldn't be open.

    The problem is that people (and therefore companies) don't have a lot of self confidence.. When they have stumbled upon some working piece of code that they refine into a product, they fear that if it got out into the open, their competitor would just reap the benefits of their hard labour and sell it for cheaper. Maybe their fear is rightly founded too! In any case, the result is that they hide the code as well as they can and try to make as much money from it as possible until the others "figure it out". The worst possible thing that could happen, they think, is if the competitor would get their secret!

    People (and therefore also companies) are greedy and interested in making money. They do whatever gets them the most money - and preferably, gets them a lot of money soon! Open Source is not a great way to make a lot of money.

    It's a question of values really.. It is very rooted into us people in the western world that money is the most important thing. For companies (publicly listed ones especially), money *IS* the most important thing. Whatever we do is determined by how much money that will get us. If we had different values; if we could work for the society, for example, and try to build as good a society as possible, then open source would probably blossom as a business model. Now, I just don't believe in it - not as a business model.. I for one am not surprised at open source businesses failing.

  • Well you can use LyX for that, it opens a lot faster than Word. In fact you could probably type your quick document and start the print before Word has started with a blank page ;-)

  • ...even though there are many (5 viable) options in the linux world of office suites - which one is most complete, fast, compatable - compared to MS Office...

    Unfortunately, the one that matched up was ApplixWare. It is a brilliant product: mature, stable, feature rich, extensible. Unlike StarOffice it gives you multiple windows in the context of the window manager you choose. Also unlike StarOffice, it performs well on older machines with limited memory. It has been far and away the best office suite for Linux, and if it really does fold we will all be worse off.

  • What do you use then? Latex is primitive in terms of user interface (or lack thereof), but I haven't seen anything that can match its output quality and ability to handle large (100+ pages) documents. Word, for example, crashes and writes corrupt documents if you get a large document with a bunch of figures. Furthermore, the output quality is nowhere near what you get from Latex. I wish there were a better solution, but even though in many ways it is not up to modern standards, Latex is way ahead in terms of the quality of the things it does. Knuth put a huge ammount of work into using the best algorithms for nearly everything in Latex, and it shows.
  • Domino's pizza sucks.

    Dom Lachowicz, AbiWord maintainer and developer
  • If you aren't going to be Open Source, it had better be software so special that you don't have competition, or an Open Source project might come along and eat your lunch. This means your product should probably be in a vertical market, not something everybody needs, or something that really does not work in the Open Source model (like TurboTax).
    Bruce, you're saying that Linux (the only significant free and level platform) will only be a potential market if companies target some vertical niche far away from any mainstream itch?

    Now there's a sales pitch to the software industry currently considering whether to provide software for the Linux desktop.

    Is the community really hellbent on recreating or borging ("your code will be assimilated") most everything above the platform (operating system) services? Doesn't such mentality lead to the software industry (the one besides Open Source consulting services) staying away from Linux in droves?

    As I see it, Linux is great as an enabling platform, but although often enthusiastic initially, many (if not most) Open Source projects aren't actually very successful in providing good end-user experiences (e.g. support or continuity). What already scratches a geek itch may leave your average end-user completely in the dark.

    It's ironic that your pitch is exactly what Microsoft wants to hear and what the flame-kiddies [linuxtoday.com] have been saying all along; that Linux is no place for a thriving commercial marketplace, especially for the masses.

    Sure, this limits how much money you can make selling Linux software. We like it that way, and we are getting all of the software that we need, thank you.
    Who's the we getting all needed software? The corporation that affords to pay you a six-figure salary for being their Linux showpiece thanks to their proprietary hardware (and software) business - Hewlett-Packard?

    In any case, you certainly aren't speaking for me.
    --

    A. Bullard

  • Actually, isn't it released under a dual license?
  • Try here:

    http://www.anywareoffice.com/ [anywareoffice.com]
  • On the older computers thing -- all of the applix office programs(5.0) perform flawlessy on my pentium 166Mhz/48MB RAM, except for applix presents. Of course, I've only had to use it once, and it was usable, but it made my swap usage go way up, and the graphics were a bit jitery(maybe it was the redrawing of the gradients?). So, the parts I use(words/spreadsheet/graphics(clipart)) all work great. Unlike staroffice..I installed it to try it -- here are my results with staroffice 5.0(starwriter):

    startup time: 2 minutes / swap used before: 0K after: 50MB(yes, 50MB out of 225MB) / time to create a new doc : 2 minutes / interface : unresponsive / hard drive : thrashing badly, pissing me off

    Applix office(using the applixware office launch bar):

    startup time(words): And I was listening to mp3s while using words, while staroffice made it impossible to do anything else. I have also extensively used abiword(written over 300 short documents(less than 10 pages) in it), and I have to say that applixwords isn't as light as it, but since you get so much more, the extra 1-3MB of ram usage is nothing. So, it is IMHO that I call applixware office the best linux office suite. But only if it could let me right-click those underlined words(maybe after someone buys it)

    -------------
  • 1/2 of IBMs revenue comes from services, anouther big chunk from making chips for other people etc, IBM can afford to lose all software revenue and be profitable.

    Hm, you should have a look at IBMs latest balance. IBM makes more money with software than Microsoft as a whole company makes.
    Pushing Apache and JAVA is for IBM creating their next new market for their services and:
    software :-)

    I'm quite sure that nearly 50% of all server side java installations are IBMs.

    Well, currently IBM offers Linux/JAVA for AS400, RS6000 and OS390. Both as the native OS or running udner the IBM VMs (is that MVS? or VMS?, no idea)

    Regards,
    angel'o'sphere

  • I have been trying to set up teTex for the last 2 weeks... But no luck..... Everytime I try to convert to dvi something crapps out on me. Does annyone know what is required to install teTex? Or can you perhapps give me a runthrough of how to install teTex? (I just do ./configure && make World right now) btw: I dont use a distribution and I dont have a package management system installed, so packages wont install. thanks
  • "Unlike StarOffice it gives you multiple windows in the context of the window manager you choose." --The new version, OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org), doesn't force the damn many-windows-inside-a-window idea down your throat, and actually seems faster than 5.1/2. And since it's GPL'ed, I'm sure the better parts of it will be included in the office projects of GNOME and KDE (and hopefully AbiWord!!!).
  • Whereas Applixware is just another office suite, Anyware Office (also part of Vistasource) promises a desktop revolution. See:

    http://www.anywareoffice.com/

    (free demo at that site -- the fastest java you've ever seen!)

    With desktop systems getting more complex and unmaintenable for non-techie users, server-side office suites could be the solution.

    Small, decentralized, or work-at-home businesses can let the maintenance, backup, upgrades, etc... be in the hands of competent application providers. This allows the desktop machine to be a small PC, thin-client, or NC.

    The application provider must be competent. Security is foremost. 24-by-7 support is required.

  • SUSE profitable? That's news to me ...

    They have been in the past, but with their current expansion rate, they are burning a lot of VC money right now.

    BTW, what's up with moderation? The score of the posting above is Insightful=1, Troll=1. Weird.

    -Martin

  • Sure, SUSE is making money. Just not enough to cover their expenses ...

    -Martin

  • >> So we think that the business model of trying to make money on free software is doomed to fail...

    My understanding is that Aplix costs $99 and is not released under the GPL. I could be wrong.

    Instead of silly statements about a business model failing you would be more accurate saying something like, "It's really hard to make money off a word processor."

    Microsoft seems to be the only company that can make money off office suits. And Sun has released Open Office under the GPL because they hate Microsoft and weren't making money with it anyways. This doesn't leave a much of a market for Corel and Aplix.

  • First "real" post for me, then, eh?

    Personally, I hope Applix is opened up, if Vista won't be making any more money off of it. I agree that the market for office apps. on Linux is getting a wee crowded (what lack of applications?!), but ApplixWare was a fine office suite. It'll be a shame to see them go. I've enjoyed their products immensely.

  • Applix is not open source, so this has nothing to do with it. Applix is (was?) a commercial Unix product.
  • But Star and Applix were anachronisms, and it is completely unsurprising that they have disappeared.
    Star as in StarOffice [sun.com]? Funny, I just DL:ed it and installed it a week ago.
    --
    "No se rinde el gallo rojo, sólo cuando ya está muerto."
  • Thanks for the link. Too bad the official site didn't provide some clue as to the name change. Guess they're too busy trying to figure out how to liquidate assets.

  • Almost Bought It (Score:3)

    by Metrol ( 147060 ) on Monday January 29, 2001 @12:23AM (#473849) Homepage
    Over at my local Fry's recently I was checking what all was going on in the Linux software section. This once growing area of their store is starting to recede somewhat. Anyhow, spotted a boxed copy of Applix Office on the shelf for right around $100. I was pretty impressed with what I read on the box, so I decided to find out more about it.

    When I got home I popped on over to the Applix web site. No mention of their making an office suite anywhere that I could find. I thought that maybe I had picked up on a different company, so I went to the search engines. Nope, right company, just no mention of an office suite anywhere.

    Needless to say, I made no further attempt to go hunting down info. I may lay down $40 for some app that's a one time good deal, but when the price goes into the triple digits I'm going to want some support and upgrade options for down the road.

    Well, there's all that and the fact that this company that is supposedly selling Unix products is hosting on a Windows box. That's just got to throw some warning flags right there.
  • One financial analyst has just upgraded Applix. [yahoo.com]
  • This is just great

    In the world of linux, some of use seriously need a productivity appilcation of some from than another. I don't know about your, but I'd rather be using native linux binaries, than windows binaries ....

    I own a copy of applixware 5.0, and from personal experience, its great. All the other productivity apps, such as Koffice, and Star Office are ok, but they just don't have the fullness of Applixware does.

    Maybe there is a chance of them open sourcing Applixware ... hehe ... =)

  • No, really...

    Then they could be Advanced Meta Ware (how's that for a meaningless name)... Or maybe TransApplix Devices... the list could go on and on...

    Would Linus then work for them, writing code-morphing office suites?

    hmm...

    rr

  • Yes, there's many different office applications available.

    The competition is what makes them improve. If there were only one office application, it's arguable that, yes, the open-source community would make improvements for improvements' sake.

    But I doubt it. I fully believe that the only reason these projects come about is because they see the need to improve on the work of others, and to do it as a separate project.

    Applix was among the first and best, and it is a shame the future is up in the air.

    Corel's wordperfect wasn't all bad, either. I currently am posting from the browser within StarOffice, just because it happens to be open...

    without the competition, I wouldn't have had the choice, and moving to Linux would have been a lot more difficult when I did it three years ago.

    Hopefully the other projects will continue to mature to fill this void.

    A host is a host from coast to coast, but no one uses a host that's close
  • ok, thanks for that.. ill have to save up or something.. but if it does fold, they may open it - but maybe not...

    "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk ?"

  • Ok, im a linux user, dont use windows at all - but i used to.. Im heading back to school in a few days, and Hemos' post made me think, even though there are many (5 viable) options in the linux world of office suites - which one is most complete, fast, compatable - compared to MS Office - from my experience they all have there downfalls, which one do you use?
    Sure, mod this as offtopic if you must - but it is an important question, dont forget that before you moderate!

    "Who is General Failure and why is he reading my hard disk ?"

  • This depresses me.

    After the news on VA Linux and RedHat, it seems to me that a business model built on Open Source software seems more and more difficult.

  • It's going to be sold to another company (Score:3)

    by eclectro ( 227083 ) on Monday January 29, 2001 @12:14AM (#473857)
    From the report;

    In December 2000 the Company entered into discussions with several possible buyers and expects to consummate a divestiture or otherwise discontinue the business in the first quarter of 2001. As a result, the Company intends to report VistaSource as a discontinued operation in its audited financial statements that will be included in its Annual Report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2000

    It's safe to say they'll probably find a buyer (even if it's for a dime on the dollar).

    The thing about Applixware is that it is a polished product. There are any number of Windows only software companies that could use this as their entry into the linux market.
  • I think [s]he's referning to the $1,000,000,000 investment in lLinux that Lou [IBM's CEO] has promised, plus the open-spourcing of some important and rather sexy AIX technology.[by a company that is annually the world largest filer of patents and is usually Very commited to protecting its IP] This is a commitment to Linux.
  • The thing about Linux from IBMs persepctive is that it doesnt interfere with their current portfolio of 'offerings', but can have strategic advantages for them, namely:

    Its the only platform [java aside] that can run on all their boxes.
    It allows them to offer a lower cost solution to certain markets who would not be able to afford AIX licencenses, conversely anyone who could afford AIX would take it because it highly tuned to IBMs hardware.
    1/2 of IBMs revenue comes from services, anouther big chunk from making chips for other people etc, IBM can afford to lose all software revenue and be profitable.
    IBM like the way that a free desktop OS [linux] makes Microsoft squirm, they have a long memory and, to be frank, are rather embarassed about OS/2 (and MSDOS for that matter)


    Basically their philosophy these days is that there's no need to worry about a free product destroying the revenue from a premium product, the natural premium product customers will still spend, but the bottom end of the market will grow, and give you profitable services, support and hardware work. quite cuddly really, though more like a grizzly than a teddy were MS is concerned

  • Then Windows is failing, too... (Score:4)

    by q000921 ( 235076 ) on Monday January 29, 2001 @12:56AM (#473860)
    Think of the thousands of companies driven out of business by Microsoft over the years. In the office suite area alone, we have VisiCalc, Lotus, WordPerfect, Corel, Borland, and lots of others. You're probably safer developing something commercial targeting the free software world than developing something commercial that competes with Microsoft.

    The reality of this market is that, unless you are Microsoft, almost no software product is a long-term money maker. Sooner or later, someone is going to take your market. Either people get stuff "for free" from Microsoft, or they get stuff "for free" from free or open source software efforts (the latter makes a lot more economic sense).

    In this mature market, you can't expect to beat Microsoft with a clone of MSOffice and charge for it. If anything is going to beat MSOffice in the market, it will have to be at the very least free, and it probably has to offer some other compelling features as well. Some companies (like Sun and RedHat) still have enough incentive to sponsor those kinds of developments. But Star and Applix were anachronisms, and it is completely unsurprising that they have disappeared.

  • It would be silly to say it's not tribal, but then whites are similarly tribal - and tribal isn't primitive.

    These black bashers are really quite awful at putting their case forward. I have little respect for them.

    -- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!

  • Furthermore he was discovered by THE INVISIBLE MAN!

    -- Eat your greens or I'll hit you!

  • Ok, so a lot of Linux companies are going belly up, right? So we think that the business model of trying to make money on free software is doomed to fail...

    What does this do for IBM? Haven't they been trying to position themselves as a "Linux Co". Aren't they trying to sell a lot of their boxes as "Linux Inside"?

    Will they have the same problems everyone else does? (VA is linux hardware, so don't tell me that it's not related). IBM is linux software and hardware. Will they be big enough to make it work?

  • I used Applix pretty steadily from 4.1...3 and now I have a pretty hefty archive of files in native applix formats. These days I've been using staroffice 5.2 and keeping my eyes on the openoffice efforts. Guess I shouldnt have been keeping those files in native formats cuz it doesnt appear that Applixware has been sharing the format structure with anyone. To be expected from a closed source app I s'pose.. still a bummer..

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