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Red Hat Software Businesses

Red Hat Linux 7 Released 298

Posted by CmdrTaco from the snag-the-isos-while-they're-hot dept.
weeble writes "Red Hat 7 is now out. The updates to the Red Hat web site have been made; however the ftp site has not yet been updated." Remember to use mirrors folks. Its gonna be a bit before they all catch up so be patient.
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Red Hat 7 Released More

Red Hat 7 Released

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  • Re:Kernel version (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @08:14AM (#756270) Homepage
    There is still no prediction of when 2.4.0 will be released, and probably we'll have to wait at least for 2.4.2 to get a kernel that is as stable as 2.2.18.

    We can't delay the 7.0 release forever (see the KDE thread).

    Red Hat Linux 7 is ready for Kernel 2.4 though - just install the kernel and everything will work (we're even including a prerelease rpm).

    I'm running Red Hat Linux 7 with 2.4.0 kernels on a couple of machines - no problems so far [on pretty much standard low-end hardware].
  • "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."-Al Gore

    Al Gore didn't say that, Dan Quayle did.

  • Rawhide is by definition a snapshot of our build tree for the next release, so everything that was in rawhide a couple of weeks ago is in there.

    Some stuff in 7.0 is more current (and more fixed ;) ) than the stuff in rawhide.
  • ...that iconbox.. sucks big time...

    What about it? It does exactly what it's supposed to do.

    and the 'epplets' ... what moron thought of those?

    Why do you say that? They are great. They are applets but they match the rest of the desktop.

    and there is no config tool... econf SUCKS!

    Hua? You must have used E0.16 since you complain about the icon box but how can you think there are no gui config tools? When I right click on my desktop I have a menu of GUI tools for:

    • Focus settings
    • Move & resize settings
    • Pager settings
    • Window placement settings
    • Multiple desktop settings
    • Virtual desktop settings
    • Autoraise settings
    • Tooltip settings
    • Audio settings
    • Group settinhgs
    • Special FX settings
    • Desktop background settings
    • KDE settings
    • A link to the legacy e-conf gtk app.

    Redhat+Gnome+Sawfish = ROCK ON!


    I agree. They kick ass (except for perhaps redhat but that's another story). Don't
  • I, like others, have a 56k modem at home and therefore not a hope in hell of downloading version 7 (unless I want a 40 hour phone bill).

    Is there a UK company that will burn Redhat 7 on CD and ship it out to me at a reasonable price?

    --

  • If you read the RedHat press release it states that it will not be available for download until Tuesday. The Press Release [redhat.com]. Good luck with the link, RedHat site is crawling . . .
  • Integrated with the Red Hat Network.

    Since it's already slashdotted, care to enlighten us as to what this is all about? I'm wary of the name already -- it's way too close to MSN...

    RPM 4

    Which gives us what benefits over 3.x? Does it support multiple databases yet (I want a system wide one, and one for my locally installed stuff).

    FHS layout

    Thank you. This is probably the biggest single improvement that RH7 gives us. I hope other distributions follow suit.

  • Turns out Sawmill was the name of another application, so the Sawfish guys were nice enough to change it.

    --
    Ben Kosse

  • [for some reason /. didn't post my entire comment]


    I agree. They kick ass (except for perhaps redhat but that's another story). Don't forget that Enlightenment paved the way for almost everything pretty on the x desktop. I don't see why you are so bitter about Enlightenment.

    --Ben

  • >Anyhow, i'm more interested in how this will impact Mandrake. I say that only because of the
    >close relation between Mandrake and Redhat. Will the two start to spread apart now, Mandrake
    >forming its own identity? Or will Mandrake make efforts to remain as close to Redhat as they
    >already are?

    Mandrake has been "growing appart" from RH since version 6.0...they are working on the beta of 7.2 as it is right now, and their 7.0 came out way ahead of RH's.

    Also, Mandrake has gone FHS-compliant* (at least there's talk about that in the cooker [mandrake developers] mailing list...I haven't tried the 7.2 betas yet); I belive Mandrake is now its own distro, tho I'm sure they are gonna try to remind RH-compatible (they like knowing that all commercial "For RHL" software runs on Mdk too, I guess).

    Anyway...RH's latest shouldn't affect Mdk, one way or another

    Vox

    * I have no clue if RH is FHS-compliant yet or if they have plans to be...have been using Mdk exclusively since 6.0
  • I have an Alpha that I have been waiting all weekend to install Redhat. (Note: Install, not upgrade). Now I can find plently of mirrors, but they all have i386 iso only. Anyone know what the lag is for non-i386 distros?!?

  • Last week, it was posted it would be out Monday. Today is monday, thus there is another posting saying it actually *IS* out, not just announced to *be out*.

    --
    Ben Kosse

  • It could be they don't know how to count, or they use another scale:

    1 2 4 7
    0 1 2 3
  • Event Electronics Layla, Gina, and Darla, come to mind, as do your suggestions, and Lexicon, Digidesign

    fwiw, NONE of these are linux-supported, even with oss-nonfree ;-(

    the midiman cards DO have linux support. that's the only reason I singled them out.

    that, and they're butt-cheap ($109 for the 2448 and $209 for the 2496).

    --

  • Re:Bind 9 (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @08:26AM (#756284) Homepage
    How long do you think (proper) QA takes? We didn't want to release "yet another buggy .0."
    Then, pressing the CDs takes some time, getting them packaged takes some time...

    We've gone gold a while before bind 9 has been released, and even if we hadn't, there's no chance anything this different from prior versions could have got in that late in the cycle.

    On a different note, I've built 9.0 in the 7.1 tree the day it was released.
    While it does its core functionality perfectly, there are still a couple of problems left that wouldn't be tolerated in a Red Hat Linux release.

    Especially when running on 2.2 kernels, bind 9 isn't 100% ready yet.

  • Sawfish. Finally. (Score:5)

    by IGnatius T Foobar ( 4328 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:58AM (#756285) Homepage Journal
    I'm very pleased that they've changed the default window manager (when running GNOME, anyway) from Enlightenment to Sawfish. I think that a lot of people who thought they hated GNOME, actually just hated Enlightenment.

    Sawfish is nice and lean, it makes the GNOME experience snappy and responsive. Thankfully, with Rasterman now off the payroll, Red Hat was able to make this switch, and I think it makes their product that much better.
    --
  • This Distro Goes To 11.

    I like that.

    I *really* like that.


    What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?
  • Let me make it a little clearer for you, then.

    "I... Don't... Give... A... Fuck..."

    Is that simple enough?

  • Care to reccomend decent external DAC/ADC's?

    yeah, again, midiman is best for price/performance ratio. their 'superdac 2496' is a VERY VERY quiet and clean performer. it can process 99% of what you throw at it (all but dolby digital - and who cares about that in a soundcard?)

    its $200 and beats many 'boutique' DACs that sell for thousands. it uses the right chipset (burr brown and crystal, iirc) and it has a nofrills front panel - meant more for pro use than home use. that's not to say that consumers won't like it - its just not in jet-black like many home units are. its their commonsense attitude towards 'getting the goods out with clean sound and cheap' that I like about midiman. no stuffy attitude with them - they know that building with good chipsets doesn't have to be expensive.

    my setup is the DiO 2496 card and the superdac 2496. obviously they both support 24bit word lengths and 96khz sampling rates. that's 'dvd audio' quality and will be a long long time before the analog side of things can match up to the arch. that is in place for 2496. ie, you can relax knowing this system won't be outdated anytime soon.

    the downside is that ALSA has a real incompatible (sucks!) driver for the 2496. OSS/non-free demo does work very well - EXCEPT with mpg123 commandline player. strangely enough other .mp3 players work just fine with the oss/nonfree driver (freeamp and xmms being two that I've personally tried). the oss/nonfree driver is $60 (sigh...) but since alsa doesn't CARE (harumph!) about fixing their goddamn broken driver, oss/nonfree is your only solution.

    --

  • We knew we'd be doing this since a day after 6.2 went gold, so we had enough time to stabilize them (yes, our patches have been given back and integrated in the trees). We also employ most of the maintainers for both, so we could make a qualified decision on which beta to take there.
  • No, it's plain Red Hat Linux 7.
    It's not another buggy .0 release. ;)
  • Dumbass. That's a different article. I also beat that one.
  • I have an ancient thinkpad also, and it's running debian with X 3.3.6 on it, since the graphics chip isn't supported in X 4.0.1 yet.

    -motardo
  • First of all, you can get rpm v3.0.6 from rpm.org, either as a SRPM or pre-compiled, whichever is your flavour of choice.

    Second, a lot of changes have been made "under-the-hood" in RPM in the past couple of years. 3.x has stood the test of time for quite a while (two major version release cycles) and even now, at version 4.0, still has a way to go (or needs a companion-application, as pointed out in the Freshmeat article from a week ago -- the link escapes me, help on this welcome!) If there are architectural changes, either visible or internal, a new version number is probably warranted...

    Third, You can then build any RH7.0 RPM's against RH6.2 for compatability. As RH7.0 uses a new glibc (hence the major version #) you should stray away from using binaries RPM's compiled against 7.0 on 6.2, as this could lead to major breakage.

    Finally, RH would not have chosen a new major relase number unless there are forward-looking binary compatability issues against previous releases. They're one of the only SW companies out there that can even trace their product line back to 1.x!

    Microsoft: WinNT 3.1 was the first release.

    Mandrake: Began at something like 5.3 (just to be bigger than RH 5.2!)

    Sun: Okay, so SunOS/Solaris began at 1.x, but look how odd it got after THAT!

    I'll skip over most of the last point, but I will point out that if you use RH services and support, it's a great deal to but a new OS every 6 mos. and get support for the life of that product (read: 6 mos.) for only $80 or so. That's only $13-14 a month for full OS support on your desktop. Not too shabby...

    Ken
  • Software designers are so infatuated with the fact that they can, that they don't stop to think if they should.

    Please give an example of this phenomenon.

    See "creeping featurism".

  • Guinness happens to be a lot of peoples' favourite beer...
  • The $209 2496 card is also based around the same chip,

    bzzzt! sorry but thanks for playing.

    the 2448 uses the c-media pci chip. its quite decent. maybe you're thinking of the 'sound-pro' which is an isa bus single chip spdif solution (which has very drifty jitter and almost unusable spdif input; although I bet their spdif out is usable). but no drivers for linux that I know of.

    the 2496 uses the envy24 chipset. all the higher end midiman cards use this. it allows multi channel operation. on the midiman cards, their dacs are also pretty decent; you could live without the external dac if you had to.

    no idea about zoltrix - please tell me which chip it uses and if there's a linux driver.

    --

  • Ok, since you asked... ;) (Score:5)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @07:08AM (#756311) Homepage
    We're using a new glibc (2.2), a new and binary incompatible libstdc++ (gcc 2.96; some ABI changes were required to support more C++ features) as well as a new package format (rpm v4).
    If you want to use rawhide packages on older versions of Red Hat Linux or other distributions using rpm, get rpm 3.0.5 or higher (3.0.5 is the first 3.x version that supports rpm v4 packages), get the source rpm and use rpm --rebuild.
    That should work in most cases.
  • I once had a sonorus studi/o (after talking with the ceo and his stating that he supported linux). well, the oss/nonfree driver took forever to come out and its still incomplete afaik. and they would NOT release specs ;-(

    seems that soundcard companies guard their wares like its the kings jewels. guys - there's NOTHING real esoteric about soundcard design; especially digi cards that have no analog stages on them.

    it seems that sound card drivers will always be a few generations behind the current hardware. double sigh ;-(

    --

  • The European Version... (Score:5)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @08:49AM (#756313) Homepage
    The European version contains some additional CDs.
    Since net access is still very expensive in many countries in Europe, we decided we should include more packages (that can be simply downloaded in the rest of the world) in Europe.

    The additions (including, of course, Parsec) will be available on ftp.redhat.de (unless licenses don't permit it) - parts of them, such as our new, credit card sized Rescue CD [redhat.de], are available already.
  • Yes, everyone running RedHat 6.2 should feel secure, especially if they haven't updated their libc (root-giving exploit), ftp daemon (root-giving remote exploit) and sysklogd (root-giving remote exploit) packages.

    Entrusting security to a distribution -- any distribution -- is asinine. Those who merely install Linux and expect it to be secure deserve to get rooted.

    - A.P. (not flaming you in particular, just observing)

    --
    * CmdrTaco is an idiot.

  • [Red Hat] has been known to ALWAYS have some huge problem in .0 releases

    Not this time. :)
    Well, actually we used to, but we found it and fixed it even before the beta. ;)

    does this mean slackware needs to make the next version 10?

    11 actually. ;) Since X is the roman number 10, they must beat MacOS X. ;)
  • I thought Pinstripe was RedHat's codename for 7.0?


  • I have a 2496 and am thinking of getting a 2448 just for mp3 jukebox playback. at just over $100 (and $70 for a used audio alchemy dac-in-the-box), its a quite affordable quality sound playback system.

    --
  • The Soundblaster AWE had spdif also, it's not like this is some sort of advanced interface whose presence represents some degree of quality.

    been there - done that. I had the sblive-2 with spdif out. what a joke! the output is ALWAYS 48k, even if the input is 44.1 ;-( very very bad design. the resampling is not ANY better than the regular analog outs! maybe you didn't know that.

    there's also the hoontech (in korea) card based on the trident 4dwave chip. its about the same as the sblive-2 and comes with opto and coax digi outs. not bad for $39 delivered (direct from korea via their website). but its ALSO a resampled card. to get 44.1in -> 44.1out you need that midiman card or similar. not a 'soundcard' but more of a 'musician card' if you see what I mean.

    --

  • I'm a new linux user (read: above cluebie, but far from guru, although I've gained some shell scripting mojo ;), and for the heck of it, I'm running Linux on an ancient ThinkPad (yes, I must be a masochist). Anyhow, for those of you with laptops out there, ThinkPads in particular, does Red Hat 7.0 offer much? It would be cool if they bundled in the latest pcmcia daemon, and laptop sound drivers...currently my pcmcia is held together with thread and glue, and sound is plain broke. Does XFree 4.0 offer anything for the RAM/CPU impaired?

  • Re:Upgrade? (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @08:56AM (#756329) Homepage
    xinetd is more secure (it has tcp wrappers functionality implemented), and it supports having a different config file for each service, making it much more easily maintainable by config tools.

    Because of this change, we could finally get all the inet services into ntsysv - along with the ones running as daemons.

    This sort of stuff is MUCH harder to achieve with the traditional inetd.
  • Actually, it's because we want to be listed in the guinness book of world records for the least bugs, the biggest number of good features, the biggest user base...
    Oops, now I've accidentally revealed our plans for world domination...
    Err... What now...
    Ah, yes, of course, we're picking the name just to win the favor of Linux, OF COURSE.

  • Re:Is it worth the upgrade? (Score:3)

    by mrsam ( 12205 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @07:19AM (#756333) Homepage

    Disclaimer: I've been beta-testing 7.0

    From my perspective, upgrading to 7.0 is definitely worth it. The 7.0 distro has much more software than 6.2, and includes many packages that I have been manually installing since the 6.0 days. 7.0 will save me a lot of time: I no longer have to constantly maintain and upgrade the packages that ship with the base 7.0 distro. Folks who have been installing certain popular add-on software will be pleasantly surprised and relieved that they will no longer have to do that.

    As far as the RPM 4.0 issue goes, changes in 4.0 are mostly on the database back-end. The database back-end is more reliable, and 4.0 packages are also a bit smaller due to some internal reorganization.

    I really like the new default desktop in 7.0. 7.0 looks and feels much, much better than 6.2.

    As far as upgrading goes, just make sure to run Xconfigurator after the upgrade, to make sure that you get the correct X server. Run sndconfig too, if you have a sound card. Also, go through /tmp/upgrade.log to see what configuration files have been reset, so that you can add back any site-specific configurations. This is really no different than previous RH upgrades, actually. Same thing.

    ---

  • No option to disable it, just to make it use PCI by default for the video. Still get "/dev/agpgart: device not configured" when starting X tho ... only with BSD, not with redhat (and I didn't even download intel's binary-only module). I can completely turn off all the other integrated devices in the BIOS, but not this one. Oh well, supposedly some tool called up2date will give me a less grating experience with redhat, and I have to deal with redhat on half our servers anyway, so I may as well figure out how to live with it.
  • > they sink every 24 hrs usually
    Hopefully this won't be a problem much longer, as VA Linux
    is reportedly working on a new line of airtight/waterproof
    servers.
  • We've tested this a number of times on a number of very different machines. It works without problems, and preserves your configuration. It even upgrades your inetd.conf to xinetd.

  • Red Hat Naming (Score:5)

    by EngrBohn ( 5364 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @10:40AM (#756341)

    As we all know, Red Hat ties the name of one version to the next. Fitting "Guinness" is a little difficult.

    Version - Name - Tie-together
    3.0.3 - Picasso
    3.0.4 - Rembrandt - Painters
    4.0 - Colgate - Toothpastes
    4.1 - Vanderbilt - Universities
    4.2 - Biltmore - The Vanderbilts lived in Biltmore Estate
    4.8 - Thunderbird - Hotels near the San Jose airport
    4.9 - Mustang - Ford automobiles
    5.0 - Hurricane - WWII fighters
    5.1 - Manhattan - Mixed drinks
    5.2 - Apollo - Theaters
    5.9 - Starbuck - Battlestar Galactica characters
    6.0 - Hedwig - Starbuck MN & St Hedwig TX are small towns
    beta - Lorax - Hedwig Godiva & the Lorax are Dr Seuss characters
    6.1 - Cartmann - MS Word macro-viruses (or cartoon characters)
    beta - Piglet - Cartoon characters
    6.2 - Zoot - Dr Piglet & Sir Zoot are occupants of Castle Anthrax
    beta - Pinstripe - Types of suits

    Linux Planet had an article [linuxplanet.com] in which they claimed the version after "Pinstripe" would be called "Winston".

    At first, I had difficulty finding a tie-together between "Pinstripe" and "Guinness", but with "Winston" as an in-between, we have the Winston Fabrics [casualnet.com] which has a pinstripe product, and Winston's Restaurant [snow-guide.com] in Colorado which serves Guinness, or Winston Agaba [africanews.com], who is a brand manager for Guinness, or Winston Churchill and Alec Guinness were both knighted.

    Upon further examination, however, I discovered [falconburgh.com] there is a red ale called "SKA Pinstripe", which seems to be a much cleaner tie-together with Guinness.

    I'm still wondering about that "Winston" that Linux Planet mentioned.


    Christopher A. Bohn
  • We're shipping the latest PCMCIA drivers as part of the kernel.
    We've also put in many changes to the apmd scripts to support suspend/resume much better.
    Also, there's now a special "laptop" setup in the custom install.

    XFree86 4.0 won't help you much with RAM/CPU, actually you might be better off using 3.3.6 on very low-end machines. Red Hat Linux 7 includes both 3.3.6 and 4.0.1.
  • I think you might want to take a look at the kernal mailing list, or the digests provided by linuxcare describing the problems with truncate() before affering idiocy on your betters.

  • The beta was there to fix bugs, not to be perfect.
    The KDE issues are most definitely fixed.
    I didn't try gnome on an update installation, but if you reported it [redhat.com], I'm quite sure it was fixed.

  • Liking GNOME is NOT disliking KDE. (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @09:14AM (#756352) Homepage
    The fact that most of us like GNOME doesn't mean we don't like KDE.

    We don't like the Qt 1.x license. That's all.

    By now, GNOME has progressed far beyond a point where we would want to drop it as soon as there's a stable release of KDE running on Qt 2.x, so that's not going to happen.

    Red Hat will continue to support both desktops.
  • Um, the same kind of moron who knows how to get the MD5SUMS directly from a trusted source?
  • It is safe to update from older versions to 7.
    We recommend you make a backup of important files as well as your configuration, but I didn't need the backups on any of the boxes I've tried.
  • Am I the first to notice this blatant attempt by RedHat to win the favor of Linus? The 7.0 release just happens to be called Guinness and Guinness just happens to be Linus' favorite beer. I'd bet money that there's an email sitting in Linus' box right now saying "Come on Linus, just endorse the RedHat and you'll never have to buy yourself another beer forever. The level these companies will stoop to!
  • We don't do that sort of stuff. Releasing 2 different 7.0s would be impossible to support.

    If anything turns out to be horribly broken (unlikely, aside from a couple of relatively minor bugs, we haven't had any problems with 7.0 yet), we'll make updates for the affected packages available.
  • They need to use the entire date instead of the year - instead of a silly 7.0.4.6.8.4.46.6.4.6.4.2 number, just call it Red Hat Linux 20000925, and when bugfixes come out tomorrow, it will be 20000926 - most drivers come like that, but the whole OS could stand to do that. Windows 2k service packs would be known by that - in fact, using their asinine 'Windows Update' feature to fix security glitches, it could just call your os 'Windows 20000910', because you have to security update every day.

    Tell me what makes you so afraid
    Of all those people you say you hate

  • Rather than hear a feature list, what I'd really
    like to know is how Red Hat's QA proceedures have
    changed since the 6.x releases.

    Is there any chance of someone describing them
    here? (Hint: Bero-rh?).
  • If you wait for a bit I am sure Linux Emporium [linuxemporium.co.uk] Will be able to get you a copy
    -
  • Some of the upgrades have been painless. Others, well... My bet's somewhere in-between. As soon as it shows up (and I can get past the /. hordes), I'll pull it down and give it a whirl.
  • First whoever moderated this is an butthole, but that is beside the point. The point is that this upgrade from 6.2 to 7.0 is not a real necessary upgrade.

    "From YOUR perspective". There are some packages that have changed, and they have added more packages. I think they had to or at least felt that they had to add more packages that people commonly use. Look at SuSE they have way more packages then redhat. Look at debian they have way more than Redhat too. That is not a reason to upgrade.

    This is not flamebait as the moderator thinks as well. This is a valid statement and slashdot should change there name to we suck dot!

    only one person gave a reason to upgrade. RPM breaks some packages. Well fine, but once again someone decidede that backwards compatibility was not necessary. They changed the rpm database and now you cant use rpm 3 to upgrade to rpm 4. If slashdot is going to continue to use idiots to do moderation then maybe it is time for the community to start leaving we suck dot.

    I don't want a lot, I just want it all!
    Flame away, I have a hose!

  • The RedHat 7.0 system I mentioned earlier is now online and accessible. Go to http://www.testdrive.compaq.com/ [compaq.com] to get all the details and register for a free shell account.
  • For our primary use (being a wm with gnome), 0.16.4 was too bloated (re-implementing all the gnome functionality).
    Now that we're using a different wm for gnome, updating is ok.

  • Re:Quick!!!! (Score:4)

    by teg ( 97890 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @09:42AM (#756413)

    Integrated with the Red Hat Network. Since it's already slashdotted, care to enlighten us as to what this is all about? I'm wary of the name already -- it's way too close MSN...

    It's a way of administering and monitoring your systems - the base service is for it to notify you when any of the rpms on your systems has been updates, and install that. Later on, we're planning to add enterprise features. The basic service is intended to be free, while we will sell higher level services including support.

    (on rpm 4) Which gives us what benefits over 3.x?

    It has some code in it to handle multiple architectures on the same system (IA64 can use IA32 binaries, same situation for SPARC/UltraSPARC), it is based on db3 and has transaction support, it has new standard macros and build policies and many internal changes. Probably more I don't know of (i.e. not highly visible)

  • Those who merely install Linux and expect it to be secure deserve to get rooted.

    Technosnobbery in general is abhorrent, but to see someone like you refusing to even acknowledge that perhaps a distribution could be shipped secure out-of-the-box additionally reflects ignorance.

    Distributions should be friendly, easy-to-use, and informative. They should instruct where necessary (i.e., 'Turning on this option will let anyone remotely read the directories you've specified. Are you sure you want to do this?') and be as secure as possible.

    Why hasn't anyone done an OpenBSD-style audit on the Linux source base? There, at least, they know a thing or two about shipping a secure distribution. Instead of making fun of their users they simply provide them with the world's most secure operating system out-of-the box, no questions asked.

    The short of it? Distros can and should be secure out-of-the box and any potentially insecure operations should be accompanied by links to the latest literature. Users should be informed about security updates instead of having to actively discover patches, with an option for one-click upgrades (e.g., 'The FTP server you're running has just been updated. Your version contains a serious security hole. Would you like to update it now?'). These things are possible.

    Don't make fun of users for wanting a good product.

    David E. Weekly [weekly.org]

  • Technosnobbery in general is abhorrent, but to see someone like you refusing to even acknowledge that perhaps a distribution could be shipped secure out-of-the-box additionally reflects ignorance.

    All I'm saying is that to assume a machine will be perfectly secure right after installation is a bit retarded. Once you network a machine, no matter what OS it runs, you open yourself up to whatever remote security holes existed in that OS at the time it was pressed to CD. Unless you continually update it, you're at risk. A truly "secure" distribution of any OS wouldn't allow its users to network it, or, if it did, wouldn't start any services that could possibly be accessed remotely. How useless would a Linux box be if it couldn't be accessed remotely?

    - A.P.

    --
    * CmdrTaco is an idiot.

  • So, is anyone brave enough to try and upgrade from 6.2 to 7.0? I know it's possible under Debian, but is it a wise thing to try with RedHat?

    Of course - Red Hat has been upgradeable since 2.0/2.1. This has been tested extensively, including migration of some files (like inetd.conf) - if you have problems, feed bugzilla [redhat.com]

  • It has some code in it to handle multiple architectures on the same system (IA64 can use IA32 binaries, same situation for SPARC/UltraSPARC)

    Excellent. That's been another of my problems. I'd like to be able to install x86 RPMS on my Sparc Linux server (they're available over NFS to the x86 boxen). At the moment I have to either compile from source or kick RPM into doing it against its will...

  • "rpm -e autorun" is the fix for that.
    We've experimented with KDE 2.0 betas because we hoped we could get rid of Qt 1.x - it worked in my testing, but only because I don't use autorun.

    In the 7.0final, KDE 1.1.x (2+patches) works perfectly, the 2.0 preview on the 2nd CD works ok.

  • Re:A nonexistent compiler... excellent. (Score:3)

    by teg ( 97890 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @12:49PM (#756436)

    That's odd. I've been a minor (very minor, mind you) GCC contributor for a while, and I could have sworn that 2.96 doesn't actually exist.

    The actual release is marked
    gcc version 2.96 20000731 (Red Hat Linux 7.0)
    . It is tagged in the trees, and will be supported by the former cygnus(which is now part of Red Hat, including the gcc engineers). We've put a lot of work into making this a stable, high-performance compiler and so far it looks like one.

  • Actually the stuff has been merged back into the tree for quite a while.
    Red Hat is not Microsoft.

  • A nonexistent compiler... excellent. (Score:5)

    by devphil ( 51341 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @10:00AM (#756440) Homepage

    a new and binary incompatible libstdc++ (gcc 2.96; some ABI changes were required to support more C++ features)

    That's odd. I've been a minor (very minor, mind you) GCC contributor for a while, and I could have sworn that 2.96 doesn't actually exist.

    In fact, I believe that "2.96" is the name given to the current series of snapshots, which are known to be incomplete and not fully working and missing documentation, because if you're using a snapshot, it is assumed that you don't need all the documentation, you know what's working and what isn't, etc, etc.

    Why did RH choose to use an unstable compiler as the default for a major distro? I can't wait to see all the crap on the gcc-bugs mailing list, from people using an incomplete compiler.

  • Re:Large File support (2GB) (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @10:10AM (#756459) Homepage
    You don't even need kernel 2.4 - we're also including the kernel for the Enterprise Edition (kernel-enterprise-*rpm) which has the LFS patch.
  • Let's hope we can change the computer world in less than five years. My dream project is building a soundcard that doesn't suck.

  • But... (Score:2)

    by Psiren ( 6145 )
    Why bother to rush? All the software contained therein has been available for ages anyway. If you really needed it you would have upgraded it manually by now. Beats me why anyone bothers.
  • If you have the room: 1. Download the iso. 2. In your RH 5.2 system mount the iso mount -t is09660 /directory (make the director first) 3. Copy /directory to / 4. make a boot disk with dd if=boot.img of=/dev/fd0, or whatever 5. Boot with bootdisk and specify hd for source files /dev/hda1/directory That's the general idea -- your setup will dictate settings. Bon Chance!

  • Re:A nonexistent compiler... excellent. (Score:3)

    by devphil ( 51341 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @02:25PM (#756476) Homepage

    gcc version 2.96 20000731

    Yah, exactly. The YYYYMMDD designation is given to snapshots, not releases. The GCC folks are very careful to distinguish between the two. This marks a compiler as being incomplete...

    ...which still doesn't answer my question of why RH chose to use a snapshot instead of the latest release? (Note the terms, please.) The current goal is to have 3.0 out around year's end, two months from now; why not just wait until then?

  • Re:Time to downgrade (Score:3)

    by gregor_b_dramkin ( 137110 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:09AM (#756479) Homepage
    Mandrake goes to 7.1 ... That's 0.1 louder isn't it?
  • The site says it won't be available for download until tomorrow.
  • I'm one of the sysadmin's for linux.engr.uark.edu, one of the 'www.redhat.com/mirrors.html' mirrors. This morning I placed 3 iso's on the server. Within hours, the server had a load average of 26.0, and was pumping out 20mbps of data.
    * Note: Our University only has a 20Mbps connection to Internet 1 and a 155Mbps connection to Internet 2. By the time the network admin's at the University level found out which segment the 20mbps was coming from, they just shut it down assuming it was a DOS attack. Namely they shutdown 7 engineering departments. Thankfully, once I explained to them what it was, they turned the connection back on, but asked me to limit it to 3-5mbps. :(

  • Re:Upgrade? (Score:3)

    by SuperDuG ( 134989 ) <[be] [at] [eclec.tk]> on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:13AM (#756495) Homepage Journal
    you can also make a beetle travel at the speed of light ... though it does require that you strap three or four warp drives to the top of it ... not to mention the procedure requires a ton of duct tape.
  • Let's see, there's JavaScript, Daikatana, CueCat, RealPlayer G2, RealJukebox, Fusion GS 2.1, Java servlets, and almost everything that isn't hardware related at freshmeat.net. That seems to be the breeding ground of all the programmers that are the epitome of my sig.
  • well I was figuring that it would come out late as usual :-)
  • My dream project is building a soundcard that doesn't suck

    the spdif (true digital) cards don't suck. the midiman series of spdif cards (DiO 2448, 2496) are 100% perfect - as long as you use an external DAC (digital to analog converter). fyi.

    --

  • that isn't really a concern -- with a current glibc and such, the upgrade to 2.4.0-testX has been painless for me on my redhat 6.2 system. I would expect that 7.0 is ready for 2.4 so that when a stable version is released, you'll be able to just download the source or (ick) an rpm and install it no sweat.

    chris
  • Perl threads are terrifically unstable. I don't blame them for turning "there's" off. I still have some issues with 5.6 in other areas too, which is one reason I've stuck with 5.005_03. Threads are off in the standard build of perl as well.

    Bah. Only reason I run redhat at work is that I can't get FreeBSD to *stop* detecting the integrated i810 so the XFree SVGA server will start using the voodoo3 I have in there instead.
  • 2.4 kernal and Apache 2.0 are almost ready..

    Like hell they are. Apache 2.0 is still in alpha versions, and the 2.4 kernal still has file system corruption issues.

  • Re:Quick!!!! (Score:5)

    by teg ( 97890 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:23AM (#756521)

    Red Hat Linux 7.0 is far more uptodate than Slackware 7, Mandrake 7.1 etc - our version number is there to say what is and what isn't binary compatible. Some of the others just play the number game (Mandrake, Slackware), SuSE seems to have their own versioning instead of just upping their number(I'm not sure what it is yet...) and Debian also has their own versioning.

    • new 2.2ish glibc
    • new gcc compiler, with performance enhancements
    • openssl, openssh
    • Integrated with the Red Hat Network [redhat.com]. The base service is free.
    • optimized for PentiumPro or higher, while maintaining backwards compatibility
    • XFree 4, with accelerated 3D support for some cards. Many XFree 3.x servers used for stability reasons, but they also work with GLX.
    • RPM 4
    • USB support for mice and keyboard (the rest is included as is)
    • Gnome 1.2 (seems to have less bugs than helix)
    • preview of KDE 2 and 2.4 kernel
    • FHS layout
    • QT 2.2

    And probably more features I'm just taking for granted now...

  • Umm, isn't it "Red Hat 7.0?"

    Where's the 0? Yes, it counts.

  • General rule of thumb (and I do this with any distribution of Linux, and even with other OS's like Windows), never jump at the first new version of anything. Wait to see what others have to say, and wait to see what kind of bugs need to be ironed out.

    With Redhat, they have a tradition of having insecure x.0 releases -- and though the x.1 releases are better, typically they come around by x.2. I can't remember the article, but there was an article on Slashdot not too long ago which showed data about the security issues behind each release of given linux distribution. I didn't create this information out of nowhere...I had help. =)

    Anyhow, i'm more interested in how this will impact Mandrake. I say that only because of the close relation between Mandrake and Redhat. Will the two start to spread apart now, Mandrake forming its own identity? Or will Mandrake make efforts to remain as close to Redhat as they already are?

  • Parsec & Redhat 7.0 (Score:3)

    by blyant ( 24690 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:40AM (#756534) Homepage
    I've been dying to get RH7.0 for one reason: Parsec.
    According to this [parsec.org] page the european RH7.0 version will include a playable demo (lan party beta release as they call it) with 50 MB of mp3 music aswell. Now what I want to know is will parsec be included in the iso(s) that are free for download? If anybody with insight could give some input on this I'd love to hear it.

    And yes, I *HAVE* checked parsec [parsec.org] for downloads. And no, there are none.

    Hope this isn't too offtopic, but I'm dying to try parsec. Also wouldn't mind trying RH7.0, but that is not the main reason for me to upgrade ;>
  • Shame on them for not putting Bind 9 in. It has been out for 2 weeks now. wtf.

    Hey there :) I assume you mean to say that they shouldn't be putting in such an untested piece of software in a "stable" distribution.

    Just out of curiosity, how long have you been using Bind 9.0? I betcha the first thing that ran through your head was, "Well, they can't have been using it for more than two weeks!" Hey, this Bind is Open Source. No reason why they couldn't have been using it ever since the development for 9.0 started. You don't know how stable they've made their implementation - Red Hat 7.0 isn't even out yet, so I don't see how you can know. Don't be so judgemental.

    Dave
    'Round the firewall,
    Out the modem,
    Through the router,
    Down the wire,
  • The KDE 1.93 RPMS are located on the second CD in the /preview directory. They are not installed by default, nor are they supported by Red Hat.
    Why 1.93? Because that was what was available when the CD went gold. Can't please everyone I guess.
    You will also find other interesting (and unsupported) things in the /perview directory, like a 2.4 kernel (Use at your own risk!)

    WireHead

  • I think RedHat "normal" is geared toward the casual user who will never compile anything, just install rpm's.

    This is nice in theory, but everyone nedds to compile something sooner or later it seems... they should include the bare minimum for compiling a kernel, IMHO.

    "Free your mind and your ass will follow"

  • RedHat 7.0 Test Drive (Score:5)

    by Test Drive ( 236441 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:31AM (#756543) Homepage
    We're setting up a test drive of RedHat 7.0 in the Compaq Test Drive program today. It should be available this afternoon - we'll post an announcement on our main page when it is. Once it's ready, you'll be able to get a free shell account on it by going to our web site [compaq.com] and registering [compaq.com]. You'll be able to explore what the new release is like and try compiling your code against it without having to download and install it on your own system.
  • Yeah, right. Put in Bind 9 and skip any sort of test cycle. Just what RedHat needs to build it's customer support.

  • Large File support (2GB) (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Since RH7 has glibc 2.1.92, just drop in a 2.4 test kernel for LFS.

    [root@foo /fs]# ls -al
    total 2562780
    drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4096 Sep 19 22:55 .
    drwxr-xr-x 19 root root 4096 Sep 16 20:49 ..
    drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 16384 Sep 15 16:38 lost+found
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2621690368 Sep 19 23:11 testfile
    [root@foo /fs]# ls -alh
    total 2.5G
    drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 4.0k Sep 19 22:55 .
    drwxr-xr-x 19 root root 4.0k Sep 16 20:49 ..
    drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 16k Sep 15 16:38 lost+found
    -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.4G Sep 19 23:11 testfile
    [root@foo /fs]# uname -a
    Linux foo.example.com 2.4.0-test9 #3 Sat Sep 16 20:38:54 MDT 2000 i686
    unknown
    [root@foo /fs]# cat /etc/redhat-release
    Red Hat Linux release 7.0 (Guinness)
    [root@foo /fs]#

  • Have you tried ftp://cronus.res. cmu.edu/pub/linux/ftp.redhat.com/redhat-7.0/iso/ [cmu.edu] ?

    It's crowded, but the iso images are there.

  • The 2.2 kernel has been out for over a year already
    And Red Hat 6.x has been using 2.2.y kernels for a long time now.

  • Re:Is it worth the upgrade? (Score:2)

    by Anonymous Coward
    > They have rpm 4.0. What is better in rpm 4 than in 3?

    Actually, RPM 4 (or at least RPM 3.0.5, the last one of the 3.x RPMs I could find) breaks some
    things. For example, try compiling the ssh 1.2.30 source RPM using RPM 3.0.5. It'll fail to build, because the new RPM compresses manual pages and then can't find the files in the %file list.
  • The site says it won't be available for download until tomorrow.

    I am currently downloading the second ISO image. It's available today.

  • Re:KDE--figures (Score:3)

    by bero-rh ( 98815 ) <bero&redhat,com> on Monday September 25, 2000 @08:07AM (#756561) Homepage
    Actually, we think KDE 2.0 is very important.
    The reason why we've ever had problems with KDE was the non-free nature of the Qt 1.x license - with Qt 2.0 (which is used by KDE 2.0 and can't be used with KDE 1.x), these problems are gone.
    Qt 2.2.0 is even GPL (we'd still prefer LGPL, but given Trolltech's business model, it's perfectly clear that it won't happen, and that's ok).

    If you've checked the beta, you've probably noticed we had a CVS snapshot of KDE 2 in there - both because of the great features of KDE 2 and because we'd like to get rid of Qt 1.x's license problems.

    Unfortunately, it wasn't stable enough for prime time when we had to go gold, so we had to go back to KDE_1_1_BRANCH CVS - and packaged up the current beta for the preview directory.

    Moving release dates (especially without knowing for sure when the stuff will finally be ready) would have been a big pain for the business side (I'm not part of that, so I can't give you the exact details, but the basics are obvious).

    It'll be in 7.1 (which is already being heavily worked on) unless the planned KDE 2.0 release date is moved by months. (Actually the internal 7.1 build already has a CVS snapshot of KDE 2).

  • Wicked. (Score:4)

    by ptn ( 236482 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @08:10AM (#756563) Homepage
    After downloading and upgrading to RH7.0 from 6.2, I can tell you this:
    • Unless you know how to recompile your kernel to get your USB devices working, upgrade to 7.0 - it's definitely worth it. My USB mouse now works, and USB keyboards supposedly work too, but I don't have one to test it with..
    • The updated Glib and GTK+ libraries make for a serious pain in the ass for recompiling your favorite apps. Make sure that they're compatible before upgrading.
    • Sawfish rules! Even though you can download it and install it, it's just nice to see it as the standard WM. (BTW - Anyone know why it changed its name from Sawmill?)

    Basically, you can make the upgrade yourself by upgrading a few things and installing a new kernel. It's not a huge release like 6.0 was, but it might be worth the money if you're not willing to wrestle with stuff like Glib, GTK, or Qt. If you want the new Gnome look without installing 7.0, your best bet is to install Helix Gnome.

    Note: If you're running Pinstripe (the RH7 beta), the upgrade is a bit rocky. I would recommend either reinstalling Red Hat completely, or doing a manual upgrade.

    --
    Dave
    http://phattechnology.net [phattechnolgy.net]

  • Redhat x dot zero releases (Score:3)

    by MarNuke ( 34221 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @06:49AM (#756564) Homepage
    Ever since redhat was started, dot zero releases are like the front bumper of car that was driven 1300 miles in south Georgia and Florida in the summer.

    Wait until RedHat x.1 to downgrade.

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