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Mandriva Businesses

Mandrake 7.2 Beta (Ulysses) Released 136

Posted by Hemos from the for-all-the-desktop-folks-out-there dept.
dclatfel writes "Just wanted to let everyone know that the latest beta of Mandrake for Intel is up - 7.2 Beta - and it's called Ulysses. (Now where is that Golden Fleece?)" They've got notes regarding it as well - KDE 2 Beta 4, and Gnome 1.2, as well as XFree86 4.01 as the default X server.
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Mandrake 7.2 Beta (Ulysses) Released More

Mandrake 7.2 Beta (Ulysses) Released

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  • Jason took the Golden Fleece, not Ulysses (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    "and it's called Ulysses. (Now where is that Golden Fleece?)"

    The Golden Fleece was taken from Colchis by *Jason and the Argonauts,* not Odysseus (a.k.a., Ulysses). One shouldn't toss around classical references if one doesn't even know the basic plot of the most prominent greek myths.
  • apt-get (whose CLI is primitive compared to rpm)

    apt-get is not analogous to rpm, it's analogous to dpkg. apt-get is more like rpmfind, except it actually works. :)

    :wq!

  • Re:Wow! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Thanks!

    I tried to install 7.1 from CD, but the media was somewhat messed up, so I just went with what I knew, and did a network install of RH6.2.

    How do you like Mandrake? Do you know if it would be faster/slower on an Athlon? (I don't think actual Pentium optimization would necessarily help...)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Re:Wow! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Okay, I'm running Mandrake now as well; it looks pretty slick. I hadn't gotten to try out Konquerer yet, so it'll be fun playing with all the installed software. :)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Re:Wow! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Cool; I've hacked most of that into my system already, but it would be nice to see it supported out of the box.

    Heck, I've got a couple of ReiserFS partitions, one of them as Software RAID-0. I've been playing around too much, I'm pretty happy with my 800 Mhz Thunderbird, myself. ;)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Re:Wow! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Hmm. I don't know, my drive doesn't do it, either. I could have tried it out, but I figured it wasn't really worth it. (I read through about enabling ATA/66 on Linux; I might have to patch my kernel for that, and use hdparm, but it didn't sound like even that offered much improvement)

    Mandrake has a *lot* of extra stuff; I'm installing it now, from rpmfind.org, and it's taking its time. The installer looks really cool, though, especially their partitioning tool!
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Wow! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    There's a network install image... It was somewhat buried, but I couldn't find it at all before! Has mandrake always supported doing an FTP install, or is this new?

    I'd love to try it out, but (a) this is a BETA :) and (b) I just got my RedHat installation working decently on my cool new computer; I don't want to mess it up!

    Oh well, I guess I could use a different partition for /usr, and whatnot, and back stuff up...
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Re:Wow! (Score:1)

    by pb ( 1020 )
    Definitely; otherwise, it would be time to protect you from my girlfriend. :)
    ---
    pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].

  • Uh.... (Score:1)

    by Enahs ( 1606 )
    What are you talking about?

    Are you talking about the Macmillan deal? Macmillan ships Red Hat GPL, too. Seriously, please post a reply, because I'm confused as hell.

    Having said that: oh great, I just upgraded from 7.0 to 7.1. :^)
  • The new Mandrake does have apt-get like ability, at least for those wanting to be on the bleeding edge. The newly updated MandrakeUpdate utility will allow you to keep up-to-date with the latest cooker rpms (cooker is Mandrake's public beta, always a work in progress).

    I'm posting this from the 7.2 beta now, and I really like the improvements to the distro so far (the lilo graphical screen, the improved MandrakeUpdate utility, and the enhancements to the installer).

    Surprisingly, the X server worked out of the box for my geforce2 card, at least for 2-D.

    -- Stephen

  • Re:Wow! (Score:1)

    by craw ( 6958 )
    Hey! I'm going to be getting a new 800 Mhz Thunderbird, ASUS A7V mobo, and parts at work. The A7V comes with Ultra DMA/100 support (Promise PCI-ATA100). Does your mobo have this? Any problems with it?

    I'm already playing around with the 2.4 test kernel (I got to find the Promise support). If Mandrake 7.2 supports this out of the box, then I might consider switching over from RH.

  • I believe binaries compiled for i586 WILL run on 486 based machines, though not as 'optimized'.
  • As a matter of fact, I just put Storm on a few machines. Pretty slick, but the stuff needs a lot of work in places. Its rough, like RH5.0 era. It tries very hard, and lulls you into a false sense of contentment - "What? It configured this! It insists it did! AGH".

    Don't get me wrong, I like the "Debian + more recent stuff" better than, say, Corel. I'm quite happy with Stormix.
  • Are you sure it wasn't just an obligatory zealous jab at Microsoft? At least that's the picture when I think of software, gold, and fleecing in the same sentence.
  • not really...
    Storm is exactally like Debian, it looks like some kid's Debian box all packaged up with an installer. But Mandrake is years ahaid of RedHat in the desktop market. I would recomend Mandrake to anyone new to Linux. Then RedHat once you have your feet wet. Then on to anything you like after that, maybe just jump into OpenBSD.
  • think about the 30% improvment your getting one 1 program... that may not be a lot to you, but then you have that 30% improvment on your Kernel, the X server, the WindowManager and the app your running. Overall thats a 120% improvment. now i'll take that anyday!
  • hey wait a minuite, doesn't SuSE support UDMA66 out of the box?
  • I also had problems w/ SCSI systems when installing 7.1 (on three different machines). It seems that the mkinitrd image just wasn't working right. I fixed it by using the bootdisk created during install to bring up the machine, then compiling a kernel with the proper SCSI support built in, rather than as a separate module.

    Rather unfortunate, as that was really the only stain on an otherwise excellent system.
  • WTF?? how is this redundant?? Offtopic, yes, but definatly not redundant. I think some moderators should get out of pre-school and learn wtf redundant means!!

    and insightful and interesting and funny and flamebait and offtopic and troll and .....

    you get the point.

    (if ya didn't, it means the school kid moderators are hopeless)

  • > Are there any issues with Mandrake compiling for i586/i686 that concerns AMD owners? Any performance problems with K6-2's ???

    > And what about Athlons?

    The instructions that have been added to the Pentium chip are also available on the corresponding AMD chip (for the current chips on the market). So, something compiled for Pentium (vs for the 80386 chip) will also perform better on a K6-2 (and up) CPU. I, myself, use Mandrake on an AMD K6-2; it works like a charm!

    Mario.
  • what's your point?
  • Yes, Bastille's hardening scripts for RedHat will also work on Mandrake - but I don't know what it will do on the new versions ... ymmv

    http://www.bastille-linux.org/
    http://sourceforge.net/download.php/bastille-lin ux/Bastille-1.1.0.tgz
  • > I am a goat fucker.

    that's it - no more goat cheese in my diet.
  • I would have modded this up if I hadn't posted in this thread already.
    (Viewing at -1 doing the mod thing ...)
  • Yep,

    ftp> ls -l
    -rw------- 1 506 523 677361664 Aug 31 20:59 ulysses-inst.iso

    Looks like anon users will have to wait.

    Pd
  • Yummy.

    For one reason.

    It's the only distro I've seen so far that supports UDMA66 out of the box. You don't know how nice that is when working with new computers. UDMA 66 has been the only thing that has kept us from installing linux on a friend's computer, and now she has a brand new, shiny OS. Very nice.


    What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?

  • Very well might. Haven't tried it tho- Mandrake was just the first one that didn't puke on install. The only one that I have personal experience with that supported it.

    Maybe it's just that redhat is brain dead...


    What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?

  • Redhat would not install on a promise 66 offboard controller without physically switching the UDMA 66 off. At least in my experience. Same thing with slack, though I wouldn't have hooked up a newbie on slack...


    What do I do, when it seems I relate to Judas more than You?

  • Some research has shown that the "Golden Fleece"
    stems from Bronze Age practices on the east coast of the Mediterranean Sea.

    It turns out that fleece is a natural excellent "gold filter". Bronze Age prospectors would let gold-laden streams run through the fleece, and the gold dust in the water would cling to the wool fibers.

    Hang to dry, then brush it out and "You've got Gold!"

    Stories of this practice probably reached the Greeks and begat the story of "Jason and the Golden Fleece"
  • Yeah, it's neat all right until you need to install Linux on an old 486 as a router or server.

    Mandrake HAS an ISO compiled for 486's. I know, my friend burned a copy for me. Download/burn that for your router...

    Security and stability should come first in a distribution, not convenience.

    Since Mandrake 6.0, I've only had minor problems with it. As far as security goes, the installer lets you set up the box as either a server or workstation and it let's you pick how secure you want the installation to be.

    Isn't that most of Microsoft's problem?

    How dare you mention the Evil Empire and Mandrake in the same breath! Microsoft's problem is that it is an illegal monopoly. Mandrake is doing a good job providing a full-featured and functional Linux (OS + apps) distribution.

    I started with Slackware (which also rules), have used Red Hat (given the $$$ RH has spent I'm not impressed) and am currently testing Corel/Debian. So far I had to figure out apt-get (whose CLI is primitive compared to rpm) and upgrade the kernel and a bunch of packages (it came with gcc 2.7 -- give me a break!) and add other vital packages (MySQL and PHP) just to get basic functionality that Mandrake has.

    Repeat slowly after me: MANDRAKE KICKS ASS!!!
    --
    You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
  • Package? Eh, I have X 4.0.1 running on this debian machine w/ xinerama as I type. It's just a matter of compiling the source. Now I probably couldn't have done some of the minor tweaking by myself, someone was nice enough to post a howto on linuxgames and if you follow that step by step, it's a piece of cake.
  • I just hope that the install goes well here. I've tried to install Mandrake 7.1 on 6 systems multiple times -- it worked twice. It has major SCSI problems. The guys at mandrake were no help, they basically "bolfed" it. But I sure do love it when it installs well!


    It also has problems with LS-120 drives on SCSI systems, some of them major.

    The installer sees the LS-120 drive, but if you use an ext2 formated disk (such as from an old distro or system you no longer use), don't be surprised if you system doesn't boot afterwards.

    What it should do to make the bootdisk is reformat the disk (after telling you what it going to do, and giving you the opertunity to back out, first) and after copying the bootloader and other nesscary files to the hard drive, copy those files that it installed to the HD to the bootdisk. What it did instead was to copy the boot files from the old bootdisk to the hard drive. Of course, the system wouldn't boot afterwards...

    If you don't use an ext2 fromated disk, it will just say that an error occured, and mkbootdisk failed. Oh, BTW neigher disk was write protected.

    If you're thinking "why not use the rescue mode on the install disk?", tried that, it didn't help...it will load the module for the SCSI card, but wouln't reconize the SCSI drives if you try to mount them. Try to load the module manully, same thing.

    That's with a fresh install, which I had to do anyways because of another bug in the installer where, if you use the "upgrade" option, the installer upgrades the kernel, but doesn't upgrage the modules. When you tell it to load the old kernel, you'll find that the old kernel is no longer set up to load any modules. This is a real show stopper if you have SCSI drives.

    What's annoying, but still a problem, is if you have an LS-120 drive in a SCSI system, even if the installer can see and use the LS-120 drive, it doesn't set it up so the system can, and the drive has to be set up manully.

    MD 7.1 is a good distro, once you get it working, and if you can stand some of the annoying bugs in it, hopefuly 7.2 will be better, and wouln't have at least the more serious and more noticeable bugs that 7.1 has.
  • It used to be true but somewhere in the kernel docs, I read where the i586 stuff will no longer work on lower end machines. It may have been 2.3.99ish or maybe even as early as 2.2.14+.
  • It clearly states multiple times in the MandrakeUpdate utility that it is not a wise idea to upgrade the kernel through RPM, especially if you have a ReiserFS system.

    Chris Hagar
  • The Debian people spend an excruciating amount of time making sure everything is stable and secure. Consequently, when you get a Stable release of Debian, you can be damn sure it's more secure and stable than any of the bleeding edge releases that the other distros put out so often.

    Chris Hagar
  • You're complaining because it was secure in not letting the average user do much because you told it to? And then you go on to say that you hope things have "improved" beyond this situation with the Paranoid msec setting? I hope not. The Paranoid msec setting is SUPPOSED to lock the system down, that's what it's supposed to do. Secondly, why didn't you just run the msec program again and switch the security levels? Quite easy to do. Consequently, I don't see what you have a problem with with that.

    Chris Hagar
  • MandrakeUpdate doesn't handle dependencies very well at all. I tried the new version tonight, and if you download a package and try to install it without the proper dependencies, it gives you two choices: (1) force the installation of all of the packages, or (2) quit and and install nothing (not even the packages that had no problems). Then it core dumps. That's a long way from apt-get, as I understand it.
  • I installed Mandrake 7.1 a few days ago after finally getting an install disk (ironic, upgrades always seem to come out after I've just downloaded/borrowed the current version :)

    The installer definitely surprised me, but it was pretty nifty. The configuration tools seem pretty good for anyone who doesn't want to poke in config files, but I'll probably dual boot with Debian. Only complaint I had was the default Gnome installation. I don't know what the problem was, but the panel sucked up about 60MB of memory. Worked just fine after upgrading to the Helix gnome RPMs though. I was pleasently surprised to find that it came with XFree 4.0 (which I need for my TNT2 card) but it choked on the NVidia drivers. I had to install X from the official distribution to get the NVidia working.

    In short, Mandrake's a great distro for ease-of-configuration, but like all distros needs some incantations for the strange hardware

  • *sigh*

    Certainly. Most, if not all, the spec files are different. Check your facts, not just your FUD...
  • I hate to reply to myself, but that should be

    - do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    + do_try_to_free_pages() failed

    and
    - Rinse, lather, repeat.
    + Lather, rinse, repeat.

  • Bloat and Insecurity my ass -
    Bloat is as much as you install, it's still like any other distro, if you don't want a package don't install it.

    As for security, for those who are concerned about it X3 is still there, and KDE, who concerned with security and stability runs that?

    Mandrake is as compact and secure (if not more secure) than other distro's. I use mandrake and I use windowmaker, and no matter what distro it is I set it up the way I want it in the end.

    Mandrake offers more leading edge packages, they aren't forcing them on you.
  • Mandrake's claim to fame: Even my wife can use it. It's the most Windows-like of the distros, it recognizes everything you own and grub rocks the trailer.
  • How is this informative at all? The only information it seems to contain is "wheee mandrake is great".

  • Mandrake is a Redhat derivative.



    Not anymore. They decided to do their own thing shortly after Red Hat started shipping KDE. That happened sometime around Mandrake 6.1 or 7.0.



    I think now they try to maintain RPM compatibility with Red Hat by keeping libs and such in the same location, but the distro is no longer derived from Red Hat.



    --
  • Dunno, KDE2 looks pretty rockin'. As in, faster, slicker and easier to use.

    --
  • At the time I was expecting more along the lines of network security, i.e. closing all ports and disabling stuff like sendmail and linuxconf.

    I guess since Mandrake is highly touted as an easy-to-install desktop OS, I expected paranoid security within the context of an operational desktop OS - i.e. working X, sound, etc.

    I would point out that Mandrake might want to provide a more clear explanation of the security settings during the install process, since they are aiming their distro at the unwashed masses.

    I'm not entirely complaining though - I also thought I would share my experience so that others might avoid the mistake I made.

    --
  • Real clever guys. Rip off the most respected piece of literature written by the most respected author on the planet. Does this yield the most respected distribution of linux?
  • I'm glad I'm not the only one to catch this flub. Disney mangling the classics is bad enough.When you make a reference like this, make sure you check that it's valid.
  • subject says it all ...
  • Rpmdrake is their dselect

    "urpmi" is their "apt-get install"

    What I would like is the option to ftp a minimal base & just dload the stuff I want, like I can with Debian.......:o)


    --

  • Kernel 2.2.17 just came out, time for all the distributors to roll out a new release!
  • Of course it's also the name of an impressively boring James Joyce novel.
  • Is it just me, or does the list of "new" features look a bit skimpy. I'm sure there are more changes then what is listed on the notes. If not, then there is not much point in getting the new release. Perhaps they are just getting tired of writing long articles on what is new. Or is this release just coming out because Red Hat just release PinStripe just a few weeks ago? It makes you wonder if they are just following the crowd so it gives the impression that the software is "new".

    If anyone has installed this yet, or has the more recent cookers, what else is new.
  • WTF?? how is this redundant?? Offtopic, yes, but definatly not redundant. I think some moderators should get out of pre-school and learn wtf redundant means!!
  • I don't know anything about Roman Mythology, but wasn't "Jason and the Argonauts" the name of one of those cheezy 60s/70s R&B Bands?
  • I've done several installs of Mandrake 7.1 via FTP, you just have to make a disk image for the network install. If I recall properly this was in 7.0 as well.

    I just installed a new HD (and removed the smallest)... Maybe I'll put it on my old drive and give it a whirl heh.
  • I'm using it on an Athlon 650 (Tyan K7 Slot A) system, and it seems pretty quick. Of course, with that kind of CPU power, heh... I don't know if the optimizations help too much, but they don't seem to hurt. Primarily what I like about the system is the security reporting scripts, ReiserFS integration (even on the root/boot partition!) and the .kdelnk/.desktop integration between GNOME and KDE is a rather nice touch. It does seem to do a better job of detecting hardware than most other distributions, though I've seen it die on a system with an old, weird SCSI CD-ROM. (Most SCSI CD-ROMs seem ok...)

    I haven't run into any problems with it stability wise. There is the issue with it reporting an "AMD AMD Athlon Processor Processor" at the console, but that's an issue with the linux_logo program :-) If you're interested in a 'NIX desktop, and want to keep up with security issues and new versions of libs, compilers etc, I highly recommend it. I've found it's like a RedHat where I simply have to make fewer changes... Which is their goal, and I'd say they've done an admirable job.
  • Not necessarily, it depends on where the desktop is deployed. If you are going to use it at home then "really neat features" may well be the attraction. However in a business setting, stability PLUS the support costs are more of a consideration. If more businesses are going to deploy Linux on the desktop then a whole lot more support people will be needed and a lot of these are going to be Windows trained. Until they have got some way up the learning curve any distribution that makes their lives easier, read cheaper for the business, has got to be a good idea and AFAIK Mandrake is about the best as regards installation and general troubleshooting.
    That said I would not be happy unless at least some support staff have a grounding in Linux security as it seems too easy to leave holes if the OS is set up by inexperienced staff.
  • Oddly enough I can't find any kernel rpm other than 2.2.17. The Reiser version string is 3.5.24.
  • I also really like the mandrake graphic partitioner. And the fact that _all_ my hardware was autodetected and autoconfigured during install :)

    I am running debian right now, because I have enough linux know-how to configure my hardware myself, and apt and the debian program base rocks! But a debian with the mandrake install program would be heaven! Someone go port... :)
  • What does .su stand for?

    Soviet Union, which formally ceased to exist 25 December 1991.

    If you want to "read" the page, select View, Character Set, Cyrillic (Windows-1251). Obviously, the Evil Empire is at work in the former Evil Empire.

  • Thanks for the info. ReiserFS 3.5.24 is the current patch for 2.2.16, so that's apparently consistent with 2.2.17. I'm currently grabbing the 7.2 inst iso from:

    ftp://ftp.free.fr/mirrors/ftp.mandrake-linux.com/M andrake-iso/7.2beta/i586/

    Actually, the 2.2.17 news is good. 2.4.0-test7 and 2.4.0-test8pre4 seem to be still having problems with the truncate bug.

  • Mandrake is a Redhat derivative. They follow the same sort of release schedule. x.0 = major release and extremely buggy. x.1 = A nice release, most bugs squished out, some nice new packages. x.2 = highly polished, again a few new packages. The 2.4 kernel will show up in Mandrake 8.0.
    signature smigmature
  • How about setting up a usability lab and asking users of varying skill levels in DOS6.2 to sit down and figure out how to perform routine tasks in Windows2000...Or even Windows98 for that matter. It's difficult for the average user to learn a new operating system, after they've spent years learning one. However, for new users, Mandrake would not be much more difficult than learning Windows.
    signature smigmature
  • Yes I have installed Mandrake, countless times in fact and it has a pretty good installer aside from the "choose how many packages to install" slider.

    But go back and read what I said - I wasn't talking about installation, I was talking about any typical, everyday task a user wants to do. Usability tests involve sitting a user (novice, intermediate, expert etc.) in front of PC and asking them to do a bunch of tasks, ranging from just logging on, setting up their PC to log into their ISP, reading email, writing a document, printing it and so forth. It's obvious that few Linux distributors with the exception of Corel even bother with this. As a result a typical distro looks like a bunch of independently developed packages bound together with masking tape. Probably they assume all their users are expert enough to figure it all out for themselves.

    Unfortunately that's absolutely the wrong attitude to take.

  • Are you suggesting that Microsoft don't do usability studies? Of course they do which is why Mandrake should too. Afterall, Corel manages it though their distribution sucks for other reasons such as hardware compatibility.

    The unfortunate truth is that if you were to set up a usability study between W2K and Mandrake, Mandrake would lose big time. Even simple changes such as renaming or moving an icon could have a big impact on how usable an OS is.

  • Security is very important for such people but they are the least likely to know how to protect themselves! Mandrake, Redhat and most other distributions install all sorts of crap including mail, news, telnet, ftp daemons that run automatically and silently in the background as Granny plays her games. All are potentially exploitable and should be disabled by default. Otherwise Granny might get a knock on the door from a nice FBI man asking why her PC has been used to store warez, pr0n and launch attacks on other machines.

    If someone really wants these things, then it's hardly a chore for them to enable them. Most of them need configuration anyway to be useful. So they should be disabled by default not least for security reasons but also for increased machine performance and faster startup.

  • Yippee, more package upgrades! Now how about setting up a usability lab and asking users of varying skill levels to perform routine tasks on a new Mandrake install? I would be surprised if the users weren't floundering on all but the most basic of tasks.

    And Mandrake is one of the better distros!

  • Since we're getting a bit *out* there, I just wanted to add my .02c re: ATA/66. I'm not using Mandrake, and I've built most of my distro from source, so take that with a grain of salt. Anyway, I'm using kernel 2.2.16 and I patched it for both Reiser and ATA/66 (I have a promise UDMA 66 card). I mated this with the IBM Deskstar drive I've got and the performance is pretty good I'd have to say. hdparm -t shows sustained rates of ~36MB/sec and the system is noticeably (?) snappier. Anyway, big improvement on my end. HTH.
  • True, but Mandrake but this second release since Redhat's last one. MD7.0 came out before RH6.2 and went on to release MD7.1 (my current distro w/ Freebsd4.1) and now MD7.2beta.
  • the distro won't even work for i386 machines as they've removed support for that to optimize it

    They didn't remove support but they added support for 586 and up which is not supported by 386/486. A small detail. There are worse things than Mandrake 7.x servers. We have NT 4.0 servers at work and are looking at Win2000 and Citrix Metaframe. This is going to be a lot of work :( On a sidenote, If you have to run NT servers then check out Vinca/Legato's Co-Standby Server [vinca.com] for failover. They were doing failover protection on a 2 node cluster while Microsoft was still just talking about it.

  • please.. examine the rpm .spec files, not just marketing info...

    thanks please...

  • Xfree86 4.0.1 deb packages are here [deadbeast.net] . They arent apt-getable yet, and are not even beta by debian standards. But I have had good luck with them (except the font server, which seems to crash on init every time) on a geforce card with the binary nvidia drivers.

  • Have you tried Mandrake lately? I'll agree that it is huge (too huge?) but 7.1 is very stable for me (on a P200/64MB/S3). For security, I hadn't tried previous releases but 7.1 has offers different levels of security on install (which changes things like directory permissions, among others) and a daily script to notify root of open ports, suid/sgid files, world writable files/directories, etc. and changes to those.

    I think you may have a point about stability to some degree since the philosophy of Mandrake is to include the latest of everything but I think it's pretty good security-wise.

  • Why wouldn't Mandrake wait a while for the new kernel - they just released 7.1 about a month ago, so they can stand to cool down between announcing releases. Sure this new one is just a beta, but they should wait for more than a couple new things.

    Debian waits for a year to upgrade from 2.0 to 2.2, so Mandrake can wait for a couple months, right?

    Tell me what makes you so afraid
    Of all those people you say you hate

  • Mandrake is damn cool. It's not as cool as an installer as RH6.2, and it's not as fast, but I could actually trust somebody else in my family to install it without hosing anything up.

    Tell me what makes you so afraid
    Of all those people you say you hate

  • I'm a nerd, and Mandrake matters because it, more than most other distros, will get Linux into every home. They release more often than Corel, and offer a nicer system. Their release is more open to somebody who messes around, yet is still easy to use. If I were to recomment Linux to anyone who isn't hard-core linux is great, I'd recommend Mandrake.

    Tell me what makes you so afraid
    Of all those people you say you hate

  • First, it's questionable that Debian isn't doing right. It releases very stable and its unstable is fairly uptodate.

    If a package is being too slowly maintained, any maintner can offer to NMU it or take over the packaging. As for X, according to Branden Robinson, the only he's the maintainer is because he's the only one who wanted the trouble. If you want X4, then download the debs (see www.debian.org/~branden) and help bug-test them.

    Frankly, considering how beta I've heard XFree86 4 is, I'm surprised by the number of distributions shipping it.
  • What I would *love* to see a distro do is use Mandrake's installer with Debian's package management.

    Isn't that the idea behind Storm?

    "What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is"

  • That depends. -mcpu=blah will produce code optimized for blah but that will run on any i386. -march=blah, on the other hand, will produce code that only runs on blah. I believe Mandrake uses the latter (and other optimizations, like -ffast-math and -funroll-all-loops).
  • No. You can do either. -mcpu produces the above behavior, but march produces code that will only run on that processor. Mandrake uses the latter.
  • Don't use the font server. XFree 4 can support everything natively --- just set the fontpath yourself in the config file.
  • My experience with 2.2.17 can be summed up as following:

    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    *Kill random app*

    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    do_try_to_free_pages failed()
    *Kill random app*

    Rinse, lather, repeat.
  • Mandrake and Redhat are no longer related. Mandrake just happens to be the most current of all the linux distributions I've seen. Most of the beta testing is done by people who set up cron jobs to download the source and compile every night I'd imagine. :)
  • suse supports it too since 6.4, but I havent tried it...

    //rdj
  • Exactly how much extra performance do those optimizations offer? From a multimedia software performance POV? I've heard that non-Pentium optimized code runs only about 70% as fast as Pentium optimized code on the Pentium. Also, I know that the i686 architecture has several quirks and speed-ups, and I don't know if most Linux distros really take full advantage of my system. Does compiling for i386 exact a peformance hit on Pentiums, and if so, why the hell do it?
  • As far as I can tell, most RPMs are compiled for i386. I COULD compile myself, but I have better things to do. Right now in Slackware, I compile glibc, X, and my window manager by myself. However, compiling stuff is really a chore I'd rather not do, and I tend to use many different programs, so it's not a compile once and forget it issue.
  • This could be offtopic, but seeing this kind of progress in Mandrake makes me wonder what Debian isn't doing right?

    While I don't particularly like the high level of tweaking performed by Mandrake, I have to give them one thing: they're right on the bleeding edge of technology, plowing through new barriers and actually *releasing* their distro.

    This would be a huge challenge for the Debian swarm to pull off, even with their new proposed release scheme. It seems to me Debian gets too bogged down in bureaucracy, hindering their ability to actually get things released.

    Perhaps some form of competition within the Debian group could be in order. If a package is being too slowly maintained, someone else could get the chance to pick up the pace?

    Meanwhile, (ho hum) I guess we virtual community freaks will just keep on manually installing our own XFree86 4.01 until Debian gets into this millenium -- or ultimately break down and start using Mandrake.
  • I'm glad to see that slashdot is being nicer to the mirrors - I submitted this yesterday when I saw it appearing in a few mirrors and it had no announcement. Slashdot waited this time for everyone to catch up and get some official word - cool!

    I just hope that the install goes well here. I've tried to install Mandrake 7.1 on 6 systems multiple times -- it worked twice. It has major SCSI problems. The guys at mandrake were no help, they basically "bolfed" it. But I sure do love it when it installs well!

    Mike Roberto
    - GAIM: MicroBerto

  • I've had the best results starting with the medium security level, and turning off the unnecessary services by hand. (At the very least, 'shell' and 'login' services were disabled heh.) Paranoid and High aren't really meant for interactive use, but if you're going to run a server you don't want just anyone logging into your system and running whatever anyway.

    I find if you choose the packages properly, MDK is a very secure distribution and quite stable. New versions of software tend to fix security issues, and being a security nut (sometimes a bit overboard) myself I prefer starting with a more recent set of tools.

  • Re:i386 compiles VS performance hits on Pentiums. (Score:3)

    by Mario B ( 22319 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @01:48PM (#805805)
    > Does compiling for i386 exact a peformance hit on Pentiums, and if so, why the hell do it?

    Basically, compiling a program for i386 won't DECREASE the performance on the Pentium (vs the i386); but the same executable will be able to run on a Pentium and on a 80386. (that's the advantage of compiling for i386). Now, the downside: when compiling for i386 instead of Pentiums, you don't use the new instructions of the Pentium chips (that are not present on i386). These new instructions (which can optimize some part of you code by allowing your compiler to use some new assembly instructions) will make the code faster since they have been optimized in the hardware.

    Mario.

  • Re:rpm based = REDHAT (Score:3)

    by QuoteMstr ( 55051 ) <dan.colascione@gmail.com> on Monday September 04, 2000 @06:37PM (#805806)
    *sigh* And yet MORE fud.

    Mandrake is *not* Redhat simply because it uses rpms. That's like saying Corel is Debian because it uses debs.

  • Re:Linux distros are still not user friendly (Score:3)

    by be-fan ( 61476 ) on Tuesday September 05, 2000 @12:38PM (#805807)
    Really? I bet I can teach a totaly newbie to install updated EAX drivers faster than you can teach them to install ALSA! I bet I teach that same person to install the Windows Detonator3 drivers much faster than you can teach them to dl the RPMS, bull with the .so files, and edit XF86Config to get them working. I can install my scanner faster in Windows (just put in the disc when it asks) Of course they're both about as easy to USE, but that's because KDE is so similar to Windows. The problem comes when you don't have an IT staff behind you to help you do things like add hardware or reconfigure something. It is pretty easy to walk someone through an install of DSL and NAT on Windows. Would you really want to do the same on Linux? As far as I can tell, going from dialup to DSL requires a little bit of CLI, and NAT absolutely requires CLI.

  • Re:Mandrake bloat (Score:3)

    by phutureboy ( 70690 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @01:48PM (#805808)

    7.1 has offers different levels of security on install (which changes things like directory permissions, among others)



    I believe the security options are similar to:

    a) Welcome Crackers
    b) Low Security
    c) Medium Security
    d) High Security
    e) Paranoid

    With my Mandrake 7.0 install, I chose 'Paranoid' because, well, I'm extremely paranoid about security.

    This caused no end of trouble for me because of the ultra-restrictive directory permissions it slapped on everything. For months (as a nonprivileged user) I ran into programs I couldn't run, global application config files I couldn't read, and devices I couldn't access. I finally got most everything straightened out, but I still run into an occasional glitch because of the settings.

    Things may have improved since 7.0, but I would caution you that this may happen if you choose 'paranoid'. I'm choosing 'high' when I install 7.2.

    Otherwise, I've found it to be quite stable, and yes, a bit bloated.

    I would describe Mandrake as a heavily tweaked desktop distribution that installs the latest bleeding-edge versions of just about everything, including lots of applications you never knew existed.

    I would never run Mandrake on a server. Bleeding edge + tons of unnecessary packages = security risk, IMO.

    --

  • Re:i586 performance increase. (Score:3)

    by fm6 ( 162816 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @02:35PM (#805809) Homepage Journal
    Practical considerations are beside the point. Don't you feel unclean running 386 code on a Pentium III?

  • too far off topic (Score:3)

    by Frymaster ( 171343 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @09:39PM (#805810) Homepage Journal
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." - Thomas Jefferson

    hang on... information wants to be free, right? the price of freedom is eternal vigilance? Does this imply that the price of information is eternal vigilance?

    Window upgrade: $99
    Mandrake 7.2 download: Eternal Vigilance

    I think I'll wait till boxing day when it's marked down to "casual observation"

  • Classics (Score:4)

    by Kyobu ( 12511 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @01:22PM (#805811) Homepage
    Somebody got their mythology wrong. Ulysses is the Roman name for Odysseus, the protagonist of the Odyssey, who had an epic journey around the Mediterranean after the Trojan War. The Golden Fleece was the object of Jason and the Argonauts.

  • Mandrake (Score:4)

    by miracle69 ( 34841 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @01:47PM (#805812)
    I would definitely recommend Mandrake to anyone new to Linux. Sure, it isn't the most stable distribution, but compared to Windows, it's a rock. The installation is beautiful - and newbies feel comfortable with it. I've tried several distros (RedHat/Mandrake/Storm/Debian) and Mandrakes is the easiest to use by far. It's not the quickest, but it will get it up and going.

    My beef with it is the update system. It's confusing - and they often include things that can crump a system - like the kernel updates (rpms) that could munge a ReiserFS system. These kinds of things are not good - especially when the end user is a novice and expects these updates to work. Of course, updating a kernel by an rpm isn't the wisest thing to do, but newbies don't necessarilly know that.

    What I would *love* to see a distro do is use Mandrake's installer with Debian's package management. I just installed Debian - and while the install wasn't terribly complicated - there were several annoyances that a newbie wouldn't be able to overcome - things like pnp configuration (automagic under mandrake) - X configuration (not as slick as Mandrakes - and I've had to modify some config files by hand) - and sound configuration. These are all relatively small obsticals for someone familiar with linux, but they are show-killers for newbies.

    But - apt-get. Oh man, what a program! This is the killer app of Debian. Something isn't working? You see the error message - packageX is missing. Please install before running ProgramY. With apt-get and the .debs - you just can't go wrong. No downloading RPMs to find you need *another* rpm. Debian's package management is definitely the easiest to master for the newbie.

    Hopefully, someone will mix the LM installer with the Debian package management - and _THAT_ will be the killer distro...

  • LM 7.2 has the 2.4 kernel according to this... (Score:4)

    by Chyeburashka ( 122715 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @01:41PM (#805813) Homepage
    According to this, [linux-mandrake.com] Ulysses has a 2.4 kernel.

    I recently tried out 2.4.0-test7 with the patch for Reiserfs 3.6.14, and it seemed to work fine.

    I'll download the iso for 7.2 tomorrow and see what is there. In the meantime, if anybody knows what is really in 7.2 beta 1, please let us know. Like, which kernel 2.4.0-testX, is it really? And, which version of Reiserfs is supplied? For some benchmarks, test5 seems to be a temporary high water mark.

  • Re:I love Mandrake (Score:5)

    by smutt ( 35184 ) on Monday September 04, 2000 @01:48PM (#805814)
    Security and stability should come first in a distribution, not convenience.

    Isn't the whole idea of a distro to be a tailor made version of linux. If you want to run Linux on a i486 as a router then don't use Mandrake. Considering that the majority of people running Linux are running it on i686's, Mandrake has made a decision to capitilize on that. Distributions of Linux don't have to be flexible becuase there are 80 zillion of them. Just pick the right one for your needs.

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