Lineo and Embedded Linux on the Move 47
plaXion writes, "Here's a CNET.com story on how Lineo has taken major steps forward in its effort to sell Linux software for use in TV set-top boxes and other non-PC devices by signing agreements with six Taiwanese electronics manufacturers, Korean electronics giant Samsung, and Korean computing and communications firm DaiShin. In addition they have acquired Rt-Control, which is creating a version of Linux for devices even farther removed from regular computers such as cell phones, digital cameras and even cars. "
Reality Check folks... (Score:3)
The situation with Lineo is exactly the same. You can grab source code to the Open Source components, copy the binaries and do whatever you want with them. Some items in the Embedix distribution are not Open Source, and so you may not copy the aggregate, just like you couldn't copy the theoretical version of Win 2000 mentioned above. Suppose that Red Hat included a copy of MetroX. You couldn't copy the aggregate and share with all your friends. You could only copy the Open Source parts.
Furthermore, Lineo has a solid committment to the Open Source community. Ever visit http://busybox.lineo.com/ [lineo.com] or http://tinylogin.lineo.com/ [lineo.com]? The main reason these exist in their current form and are available to the community is because Lineo has paid me to work on them and release them. Keep in mind that these are the fundamental building blocks of Embedix. Want to build your own embedded Linux distro, grab these and you are mostly there. Why would Lineo pay me to release these? Because it is realised that Open Source works. It works and is the Right Thing(tm) to do.
Re:A good alternative to WinCE (Score:1)
Re:Wow (Score:1)
How about writing a script that would mow my lawn for me? (I wonder how you would set the parameters for that...temporarily hook a keyboard and monitor up to your lawn mower?)
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Embedded Linux - Practical? (Score:1)
Using Linux for things like MP3 players and such... is... silly. The line gets hazier when we talk about video devices, but my point remains. Do you really need all of that overhead and extra power? Now you're going to say, "What overhead, are you an idiot? Compare Linux to Win2k, THERE'S overhead..." All the same. I will acknowledge that there are legitimate uses for Linux in embedded applications, but it seems to me that the majority of the people here who scream "YES!!!!!" at the announcement of such a device want it simply because it runs their favorite OS.
I always feel like a geezer when I talk about this stuff (and I'm only 19) but all these object-oriented compilers, spare CPU cycles, hundreds of megs or RAM, etc... It just makes us so darned sloppy. Call it "good programming practice" if you want, but Java or C++ is no way to write good, tight, efficient code. It's the same as with using Linux to run my hypothetical MP3 player. Sure, we can do it. But can you imagine how much better a solution could be that's made for it?
I'm a Forth fan, myself. Get yourself a good processor that's made for it, get yourself some coders that know what they're doing that can make you a custom solution, and they'll probably be kicking the rival company's Linux version all over the place. I don't want to start a flame war (hehe.. :) or anything, but I just think that jumping on the old Linux bandwagon just for the sake of running Linux is silly.
Disclaimer: Linux is pretty stinkin cool, and a joy to program on. I love it. It's not perfect for every situation, though.
There is something pretty cool about a TV that runs Linux -- to ME. But to a user, who will never try to port DOOM to it, or use it for anything other than its intended purpose... Just seems to me we could be a lot more efficient. If you're building an embedded device in your garage, then by all means make it run Linux. But if you're a big company with the resources... putting out a commercial product with a specific purpose... Make it as good as you can. And that, probably, would mean working from the ground up.
Re:lineo abusing Linux (Score:1)
It's Linux, I'm gonna give out copies of it, Lineo can Byte me.
Re:Embdedded linux is cool, but (Score:1)
Crashing Takes On A New Meaning (Score:2)
Caldera is ok. (Score:2)
community. They gave the COAS admin system, their distribution
and graphical install system is free too. I don't see why they
would change their mind over Lineo. Ok, so they changed their
mind over OpenDOS. Hmm. But that was their, right, they
bought it.
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UNIX isn't dead, it just smells funny...
webtv? (Score:1)
So to clarify, they wont get people using their boxes until its more than just web access. Another point is my grandmother has trouble vchanging the chanel on the tv, no because shes blind or sick or ill, she just doesn't like it. The vcr has been taken away for someone to use, a web pad in her house will be useless. I only hope shell be able to manage digital tv when its forced on her in a few years time.
sorry, lost the plot. The point is it will be too much for too little. Think Amiga from Escom onwards.
Re:Something not quite right. . . (Score:2)
Two things there, first you can mix and match the GPL with other licenses including non-open ones (We had that discussion over the LinuxCE mailing list with some insightful responses, check the digest in http://www.linuxce.org ) as long as you satisfy all requirements, for the GPL it is to release the source with the binaries of all GPL derived work.
The second thing comes not from Caldera but from harware manufacturers themselves, in a world where profit margins are reducing each day, IP (Intellectual Property in case anyone didn't get it
Caldera (Which I don't use, I'm a happy SuSE user) has been good to the community just like Red Hat, Cygnus, Terra Soft or SuSE have been... only problem here is that they need to be profitable or else they won't exist, and THEY ARE a necessity in order to get the application base to grow with quality products... it had to happen, someday the cool idealism of the Linux community had to face the cold face of corporate consumerism, and until now the results have been positive even with the presence of such sour grapes like LinuxOne...
ZoeSch
Re:Embdedded linux is cool, but (Score:2)
Microsoft is really a good example. After they "lost" he trial and this judge spoke of Bill Gates as the devil of all times (metaphorically), they haven't been at all better. One should beleive the company at least slowed down their hyper-licencing and stuff to show the court "We're cool". Have anyone seen that happen?
All right. We all want this to be a good world with free software, cheap hardware, no wars, plages or crime. But as long as there are countries worshipping capital like USA, what can you do? Roy
Your mouse moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect.
Re:A good alternative to WinCE (Score:1)
http://sanosuke.thekeep.org/mp3cd/
If it ain't a gut feeling, go think it over again...
Re:Something not quite right. . . (Score:1)
Re:GPL: "I have just been violated" (Score:1)
All they did is removing unneeded parts of the kernel, and all the rest is written as modules. Now - you may want to know that Linus said that releasing modules as binary only is OK!
Grow up! Do some Research before you post!
Re:Embdedded linux is cool, but (Score:1)
Re:Embedded Linux - Practical? (Score:1)
So keep on using your hopelessly antiqued programming language
Now that's just ridiculous. Forth is more a way of programming than a language.
I'm sure it runs fast enough on your XT, but on my Pentium III
More evidence you've missed my point entirely. You don't have a Pentium III in your Diamond Rio. How come? Far too many reasons to list here, I'll let you come up with a few on your own.
And why use Forth anyway? It's wasteful. Use plain old assembly
Like I said, Forth is really more a thought process than a programming language. Ideas do not become obsolete. Java does. Forth is certainly not wasteful, and it's got so many advantages over asm it's not even worth going into them. Asm is NOT faster on a processor meant for Forth, and your code will NOT be tighter. But this isn't about Forth at all, even though you seemed to think it was.
And good luck getting a job programming in Forth, bucko
Bahaha... Ok, 'bucko'... Where you got the idea that my original post was about Forth escapes me, but I actually do know Lisp, asm for various microcontrollers, C, and Java, among other things. C is my language of choice. I use Java for some things, yes. It has several inherent coolnesses about it, but if you want to get right down on the metal and DO things, you just can't with Java.
Anyway, I don't know why I'm even replying to this. I suppose I'm stooping pretty low to even acknowledge such a post as yours, but hey, I'm only human. Probably no one will read this anyway, especially the apparently quite uninformed and misunderstanding AC to which I am replying. [sigh] Ah, well, back to my "life"... ;)
Re:A good alternative to WinCE (Score:1)
like a system that:
plays cd, mp3, dvd;
rips cd, dvd;
records cd;
ah, and i can use it to browse the web, download things, read slashdot, shop online...
very entertaining. and powered by linux
Re:I hate to sound whiny, but... (Score:1)
Embdedded linux is cool, but (Score:3)
What about the allegations of possible GPL violations by LINEO. Discussed even on linux-kernel? They have neitehr posted source, nor disclosed quite a lot their stuff the last time I had a look.
I like the icon (Score:1)
Re:Embdedded linux is cool, but (Score:3)
There's a little light on the horizon (Score:1)
Then the sickening thought entered my mind, In a couple of years I could be flicking between TV and Windows er or BSOD. So I immediately resolved to do something - immediately
So I went up stairs and grabbed my linux box (which nearly killed me as it was in a server tower) and carted it down stairs. Next I spent an hour and a half hunting around for my external encoder card (rare kit these days).
Once I connected all the kit up next to the TV, I tuned in my encoder - et voilla Internet enabled TV; just flick channels.
Now until decent web/tv appliances come along, I'll be using this: and it is useful (to me).
Just one thing that I would like to point out to manufacturers, a 10BaseT network adapter would be nice because some of us have more than one appliance connected to the internet at any one time
Embedded Linux vs. Others? (Score:2)
Something not quite right. . . (Score:3)
While Linux itself can be downloaded for free, Lineo hopes to make money by licensing proprietary software as well, in particular, programming tools that will make it easier to create software for their computing devices. The company ultimately plans an initial public offering. Embedix is based on a version of Linux from Lineo's sister company, Caldera Systems.
What I'm wondering is, is this going to turn out to be another "exploit the GPL, violate GPL, IPO it for all they can squeeze, then get out" scenario. A certain Linux distributor comes to mind. . .
Wow (Score:1)
I have allways wanted to write Perl scripts for food processors and lawn mowers. That'll be great!
This is the future (Score:2)
I am glad that the operating system choice in this area increasing. While we do have some notable choices at the moment (everything from PalmOS to Windows CE) it is good to be able to choose a linux derivative.
Even if you don't want to use it atleast the competition will make the others work harder.
GPL: "I have just been violated" (Score:1)
And people are complainign about LinuxOne...
Re:Something not quite right. . . (Score:2)
I did mean LinuxOne, not Red Hat. The PR stuff that Lineo has on their site,, and the related press releases that are also there, seem to point to the same type of business practices and ethics (or lack there of) of Linux One.
A good alternative to WinCE (Score:1)
Oldest article (Score:2)
If you want to see what an MS-DOJ article looks like with only 6 comments, look over here [slashdot.org]. My favorite of the early ones still has to be this one [slashdot.org]. Even back then, slashdot was having a little bit of trouble with disappearing stories.
EPOC the US and the myth of CE... (Score:4)
Its interesting news to see Linux moving into a new area but in this sort of arena the current leaders live on the other side of the Atlantic, check out Symbian [symbian.com] or Psion [psion.com] and A release from Nokia [nokia.com] for an overview on the reasons for Symbian and the Bluetooth initative.
Re:Something not quite right. . . (Score:1)
I wouldn't worry too much about Caldera (or Lineo, they are two seperate but related companies). I use the OpenLinux distro and have been happy with it, they released their COAS (Caldera Open Admin System) and Lizard (Linux Install wiZARD) as open source. Heck Caldera wrote the Linux IPX stack that has been part of the kernel for like 5 years+.
The proprieatary stuff they mentioned may refer to their web browser (WebSpyder based on the DOS shareware prog Arachne, which I don't know the license of) or something to with the 32bit protected mode API that ships with DR-DOS. Speaking of DR-DOS, anyone remember when they open sourced it and called it OpenDOS? I think they closed the source because of developer disinterest but I could be wrong.