If you're a Linux / Mac user, why would you start using Windows?
As a long time Linux user, I can't see any reason I'd switch back to Windows, as it provides nothing of benefit and introduces some serious detriments to my workflows. Instead of trying to convert Linux / Mac users, they're better off making Windows a better operating system, or just make Windows a user land OS and leveraging the Linux Kernel.
If you're a Linux / Mac user, why would you start using Windows?
Because you changed jobs? Let's turn it on its head: why would a windows user start using Linux. Any reason you can think of is probably irrelevant to someone who is happy getting the job done the way they are doing it.
Let's turn it on its head: why would a windows user start using Linux
Right mouse click on a shortcut in Windows. Select the properties. CTRL+C the working folder. Go to Explorer and CTRL+V in the location bar. Watch as Explorer thinks you just typed in a web address and opens your web browser. All of this because in the properties, working folder is surrounded by quotes if you are using names with spaces, and literally no other program outside the terminal treats quotes as an actual path, but instead they all treat it as a web address.
Now that alone wouldn't be a killer, but gosh it's a big paper cut.
However, the CMD terminal vs PS terminal vs wTerm all treat their quotes differently and what's more, the GUI has different styles of doing quotes in paths as well. By the time you break out the rubric on this, you've got literally twelve different combinations of program to quote style to type of quote being used. So pretty much on Windows, there's a very specific way to work clearly. It's no wonder scripting on Win platforms is the nightmare it is and most just ditch it completely to go VBScript, Python, or something else completely.
Again all of that isn't a killer, but it's a paper cut and having used Linux and Windows both quite a bit. Windows is this OS that you need to have a very specific way of working and never change from that. Even going from Linux to BSD, scripting and tooling feels all roughly the same. Hell, even on Mac there's a few hiccups but it's pretty straight forward. Windows is just this completely jarring thing that paper cuts you to death if you heads up about it.
And it might be that last part that is the big draw to it. Once you know all the things to dodge and you've got a complete working process, you can be pretty damn productive in Windows. But good golly, if you're regularly working UNIX or Linux machines, going to Windows is just whole thing you just try to avoid as much as possible. It's just so damn counter-intuitive.
Right mouse click on a shortcut in Windows. Select the properties. CTRL+C the working folder. Go to Explorer and CTRL+V in the location bar. Watch as Explorer thinks you just typed in a web address and opens your web browser. All of this because in the properties, working folder is surrounded by quotes if you are using names with spaces, and literally no other program outside the terminal treats quotes as an actual path, but instead they all treat it as a web address.
Now that alone wouldn't be a killer, but gosh it's a big paper cut.
Sure... Copy the path, Launch Explorer, Paste the path and hit enter... instead of clicking on "[Open File Location]."
Mac Os: drag and drop almost any thing any where for any reason.
Windows: Preform action A on object 1 then find object 2 and hit the keyboard command and click the button on the dialog that pops up and then confirm that object 1 is the correct object unless it is a removable drive, or you are using file encryption, and in some cases certain objects or actions may not be present in which case an alternative method may or may not be possible.
You have enough small simple tasks that you do on a repeated bas
But good golly, if you're regularly working UNIX or Linux machines, going to Windows is just whole thing you just try to avoid as much as possible. It's just so damn counter-intuitive.
To be fair, though, it's the same going from *nix to any other unrelated operating system, e.g., VMS or z/OS. In the 80's and early 90's I was pretty proficient in VMS and found picking up Linux in the early 90's to be a significant learning curve. Then I had an employer who invested in Microsoft certifications and voila I could make Windows stand on its head and spit nickels.
It reminds me a bit of Goethe on languages: Those who know no foreign languages know nothing of their mother tongue. Those who speci
Even going from Linux to BSD, scripting and tooling feels all roughly the same.
I've never used any of the BSDs, but my understanding is that for the average user, you can't really tell them apart from each other, or from a Linux box because all of the differences are "under the hood."
That's a good point, a Windows user probably won't start using Linux, but if they're screwing around with the WSL, then they're trying to use Linux anyway. If you have to use WSL (which I've never used), to get something small / quick done as a one off, that's fine, but if you're using it regularly then why not just install Linux and dual boot (if you want to be a part time Windows user).
For me, WSL replaces the multilayer hell that is Cygwin. I can finally ssh and scp without having to install loads of other stuff (PuTTY is awesome, but native-er is nicer). Also, I much prefer how python is handled in WSL vs Windows, maybe because I got use to using it on a Linux system.. And I "have" to use Windows because it has my games and for some reason still the only halfway decent word processor other than vim.
but if you're using it regularly then why not just install Linux and dual boot (if you want to be a part time Windows user).
Because you don't need to dual-boot when you can use Windows and Linux (at least the command line tools) at the same time. Why should I waste time shutting down one system and booting the other if I can do stuff right away?
Also, at work I can't install Linux on my work system. But I could install WSL and now my colleagues and I are happily working with Debian do ssh to our servers and do all kinds of command line-fu.
If your work is restricting access to your hardware then that sucks, and usually just shows inexperience in IT or overly strict and pointless management policies.
My employer is a multi-national telecommunications company. If we did BYOD of if everybody would be allowed to do with they company supplied hardware as they please chaos would reign and next to no productive work would be possible. Do it yourself works somewhat in small companies where (almost) everyone has some idea about technology. But it doesn't scale.
Exactly. My company is a Windows shop. As a security professional, Linux is a more natural environment for me to work in often times, but I also need to interact with the Windows and AD environment regularly, so really I need both. So I have Kali installed inside of Windows, via WSL. It works quite well.
I COULD could the same thing by rebooting every time I want to use grep or awk, but why in world would I want to reboot first when I can just use awk without rebooting?
Why would you spend a week trying to compile all of the Linux utilities to run on Windows, poorly, rather than three clicks to install a perfectly working Linux distro? Is it because you're fucking stupid?
Let's turn it on its head: why would a windows user start using Linux
Wrong question. As the story is about Microsoft releasing a new version of WSL their must be a whole pile of people out there who have already started using Linux. A more relevant question is if you are savvy enough to be using Linux for your day job, why would you bother continuing with Windows?
All you are arguing about is what colour the go fast strikes are. You say prefer Windows coloured ones over Linux or Apple ones, but the realit
Not everybody is a developer, which are the main users of Linux desktops, so maybe because of Microsofot Office on the desktop or another desktop software that is Windows only.
Do not underestimate the value of print statements for debugging.
Don't have aesthetic convulsions when using them, either.
They want WSL to move people from Linux / MAC? (Score:4, Insightful)
As a long time Linux user, I can't see any reason I'd switch back to Windows, as it provides nothing of benefit and introduces some serious detriments to my workflows. Instead of trying to convert Linux / Mac users, they're better off making Windows a better operating system, or just make Windows a user land OS and leveraging the Linux Kernel.
Re:They want WSL to move people from Linux / MAC? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're a Linux / Mac user, why would you start using Windows?
Because you changed jobs? Let's turn it on its head: why would a windows user start using Linux. Any reason you can think of is probably irrelevant to someone who is happy getting the job done the way they are doing it.
Re:They want WSL to move people from Linux / MAC? (Score:5, Interesting)
Let's turn it on its head: why would a windows user start using Linux
Right mouse click on a shortcut in Windows. Select the properties. CTRL+C the working folder. Go to Explorer and CTRL+V in the location bar. Watch as Explorer thinks you just typed in a web address and opens your web browser. All of this because in the properties, working folder is surrounded by quotes if you are using names with spaces, and literally no other program outside the terminal treats quotes as an actual path, but instead they all treat it as a web address.
Now that alone wouldn't be a killer, but gosh it's a big paper cut.
However, the CMD terminal vs PS terminal vs wTerm all treat their quotes differently and what's more, the GUI has different styles of doing quotes in paths as well. By the time you break out the rubric on this, you've got literally twelve different combinations of program to quote style to type of quote being used. So pretty much on Windows, there's a very specific way to work clearly. It's no wonder scripting on Win platforms is the nightmare it is and most just ditch it completely to go VBScript, Python, or something else completely.
Again all of that isn't a killer, but it's a paper cut and having used Linux and Windows both quite a bit. Windows is this OS that you need to have a very specific way of working and never change from that. Even going from Linux to BSD, scripting and tooling feels all roughly the same. Hell, even on Mac there's a few hiccups but it's pretty straight forward. Windows is just this completely jarring thing that paper cuts you to death if you heads up about it.
And it might be that last part that is the big draw to it. Once you know all the things to dodge and you've got a complete working process, you can be pretty damn productive in Windows. But good golly, if you're regularly working UNIX or Linux machines, going to Windows is just whole thing you just try to avoid as much as possible. It's just so damn counter-intuitive.
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Right mouse click on a shortcut in Windows. Select the properties. CTRL+C the working folder. Go to Explorer and CTRL+V in the location bar. Watch as Explorer thinks you just typed in a web address and opens your web browser. All of this because in the properties, working folder is surrounded by quotes if you are using names with spaces, and literally no other program outside the terminal treats quotes as an actual path, but instead they all treat it as a web address.
Now that alone wouldn't be a killer, but gosh it's a big paper cut.
Sure... Copy the path, Launch Explorer, Paste the path and hit enter... instead of clicking on "[Open File Location]."
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But good golly, if you're regularly working UNIX or Linux machines, going to Windows is just whole thing you just try to avoid as much as possible. It's just so damn counter-intuitive.
To be fair, though, it's the same going from *nix to any other unrelated operating system, e.g., VMS or z/OS. In the 80's and early 90's I was pretty proficient in VMS and found picking up Linux in the early 90's to be a significant learning curve. Then I had an employer who invested in Microsoft certifications and voila I could make Windows stand on its head and spit nickels.
It reminds me a bit of Goethe on languages: Those who know no foreign languages know nothing of their mother tongue. Those who speci
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I've never used any of the BSDs, but my understanding is that for the average user, you can't really tell them apart from each other, or from a Linux box because all of the differences are "under the hood."
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Re: They want WSL to move people from Linux / MAC? (Score:2)
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but if you're using it regularly then why not just install Linux and dual boot (if you want to be a part time Windows user).
Because you don't need to dual-boot when you can use Windows and Linux (at least the command line tools) at the same time.
Why should I waste time shutting down one system and booting the other if I can do stuff right away?
Also, at work I can't install Linux on my work system. But I could install WSL and now my colleagues and I are happily working with Debian do ssh to our servers and do all kinds of command line-fu.
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My employer is a multi-national telecommunications company. If we did BYOD of if everybody would be allowed to do with they company supplied hardware as they please chaos would reign and next to no productive work would be possible.
Do it yourself works somewhat in small companies where (almost) everyone has some idea about technology. But it doesn't scale.
Exactly - why reboot? (Score:2)
Exactly. My company is a Windows shop.
As a security professional, Linux is a more natural environment for me to work in often times, but I also need to interact with the Windows and AD environment regularly, so really I need both. So I have Kali installed inside of Windows, via WSL. It works quite well.
I COULD could the same thing by rebooting every time I want to use grep or awk, but why in world would I want to reboot first when I can just use awk without rebooting?
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Why would you spend a week trying to compile all of the Linux utilities to run on Windows, poorly, rather than three clicks to install a perfectly working Linux distro? Is it because you're fucking stupid?
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Microsoft Office
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Wrong question. As the story is about Microsoft releasing a new version of WSL their must be a whole pile of people out there who have already started using Linux. A more relevant question is if you are savvy enough to be using Linux for your day job, why would you bother continuing with Windows?
All you are arguing about is what colour the go fast strikes are. You say prefer Windows coloured ones over Linux or Apple ones, but the realit
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