Yeah, yeah I know the history of its development and how log files are binary and the whole debug kernel flag fiasco. And I don't care. By the time I used systemd, that had already long passed.
I switched from Squeeze to Jessie a couple years ago, had some growing pains as I learned how to use systemd... but that was it. No stability issues, no bugs. Can't say whether things run better, but they definitely don't run worse.
I had only really been using Linux for a few years before the onset of systemd, and hon
Perhaps you have had no problems with systemd because you aren't trying to use it to do much.
Lots of people, myself included, have had issues trying to get things which are trivial in pre-systemd or on other OSes to work properly and consistently on systemd. There are many, many, many examples of issues. If someone asked me for examples, I'd have a hard time deciding where to start because so many things have been gratuitously changed. If you really think there aren't examples, just read this thread.
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you have so many examples that you "don't know where to start", then start anywhere. You don't have to come at me with the best, most perfect example. Any example will do! I'm actually very interested. And I have, out of curiosity, looked a bit. But like you looking for why systemd is better, I came across a similar problem.
Your reply just continues the cycle I spoke of, where people who potentially know better than me, like you, claim there are problems bu
systemd fails silently if something is wrong in/etc/fstab. It just doesn't finish booting. Which is moderately annoying if you have access to the system console and you can guess that an unchanged/etc/fstab from before systemd that worked for a while with systemd is now suddenly toxic
If you do not have easy access to the system console or you are not blessed with divine inspiration, that is quite a bit more than annoying. Thanks to the binary log files you cannot even boot something random and read the lo
Meanwhile here I am, running Gentoo, with init scripts that have had real dependencies for over 15 years (as well as a bash-based but much nicer scaffolding to write them), with simple to use admin tools and fully based on text files, with cgroup-based process monitoring (these days), and I'm wondering why everyone else didn't get the memo and suddenly decided to switch to systemd instead and bring along all the other baggage it comes with. Debian and Ubuntu had garbage init systems, and yet it seems *nobody* ever took notice of how Gentoo has been doing things right for a decade and a half. You can also use systemd with Gentoo if you want, because user choice is a good thing.
and yet it seems *nobody* ever took notice of how Gentoo has been doing things right for a decade and a half.
Gentoo does everything right except exist. On alternate days you can follow the install instructions identically and get totally different results. Gentoo is its own worst enemy.
With that said, lots of people have screamed often and loudly in many locations that Gentoo proves that this stuff is possible without systemd, and that there are at least two init systems which were already in relatively common use when systemd was shat out which support parallel init. This has simply been resoundingly ignored by t
I ran Linux on the desktop (and LOTS of servers) for 19 years, but finally got Mac religion about 4 years ago. As I had used Gentoo for about 5 years over this time, I was wondering how they had handled this. Found this: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/G... [gentoo.org]. Looks like it's just as straightforward as I would have hoped, and the documentation was just a clear as usual for the project. It actually makes me want to emerge a new desktop system, just for old time's sake.
At one point I did have exactly the problem addressed in the article; I followed the steps therein, and the problem went away, and hasn't recurred since. I won't pretend I've never had issues with Gentoo; I have, although probably 80% turned out to have been self-inflicted. Nonetheless I find that it has bought me valuable time to not have to deal with all the systemd nonsense so long as I don't try to run Gnome, which I wouldn't anyway (I prefer XFCE). I've no doubt that sooner or later I will be forced
I have no problem with systemd (Score:4, Interesting)
Yeah, yeah I know the history of its development and how log files are binary and the whole debug kernel flag fiasco. And I don't care. By the time I used systemd, that had already long passed.
I switched from Squeeze to Jessie a couple years ago, had some growing pains as I learned how to use systemd... but that was it. No stability issues, no bugs. Can't say whether things run better, but they definitely don't run worse.
I had only really been using Linux for a few years before the onset of systemd, and hon
Re: (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps you have had no problems with systemd because you aren't trying to use it to do much.
Lots of people, myself included, have had issues trying to get things which are trivial in pre-systemd or on other OSes to work properly and consistently on systemd. There are many, many, many examples of issues. If someone asked me for examples, I'd have a hard time deciding where to start because so many things have been gratuitously changed. If you really think there aren't examples, just read this thread.
On the
Re: (Score:3)
Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. If you have so many examples that you "don't know where to start", then start anywhere. You don't have to come at me with the best, most perfect example. Any example will do! I'm actually very interested. And I have, out of curiosity, looked a bit. But like you looking for why systemd is better, I came across a similar problem.
Your reply just continues the cycle I spoke of, where people who potentially know better than me, like you, claim there are problems bu
Re: (Score:5, Insightful)
systemd fails silently if something is wrong in /etc/fstab. It just doesn't finish booting. Which is moderately annoying if you have access to the system console and you can guess that an unchanged /etc/fstab from before systemd that worked for a while with systemd is now suddenly toxic
If you do not have easy access to the system console or you are not blessed with divine inspiration, that is quite a bit more than annoying. Thanks to the binary log files you cannot even boot something random and read the lo
Re:I have no problem with systemd (Score:4, Interesting)
Meanwhile here I am, running Gentoo, with init scripts that have had real dependencies for over 15 years (as well as a bash-based but much nicer scaffolding to write them), with simple to use admin tools and fully based on text files, with cgroup-based process monitoring (these days), and I'm wondering why everyone else didn't get the memo and suddenly decided to switch to systemd instead and bring along all the other baggage it comes with. Debian and Ubuntu had garbage init systems, and yet it seems *nobody* ever took notice of how Gentoo has been doing things right for a decade and a half. You can also use systemd with Gentoo if you want, because user choice is a good thing.
Re: (Score:2)
and yet it seems *nobody* ever took notice of how Gentoo has been doing things right for a decade and a half.
Gentoo does everything right except exist. On alternate days you can follow the install instructions identically and get totally different results. Gentoo is its own worst enemy.
With that said, lots of people have screamed often and loudly in many locations that Gentoo proves that this stuff is possible without systemd, and that there are at least two init systems which were already in relatively common use when systemd was shat out which support parallel init. This has simply been resoundingly ignored by t
Re: (Score:2)
I ran Linux on the desktop (and LOTS of servers) for 19 years, but finally got Mac religion about 4 years ago. As I had used Gentoo for about 5 years over this time, I was wondering how they had handled this. Found this: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/G... [gentoo.org]. Looks like it's just as straightforward as I would have hoped, and the documentation was just a clear as usual for the project. It actually makes me want to emerge a new desktop system, just for old time's sake.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I must admit that I did not know about Gentoos init system. It seems very sensible.