Linux Running on Xbox Without Modchip! 282
NiteStar writes "It looks like people on xbox-scene.com and xboxhacker.net managed to run Xbox-Linux on a non-modded Xbox console.
It requires no soldering at all - you don't even have to open up the Xbox. They are using an exploit in the saved game handling of the EA xbox game '007 Agent Under Fire'.
It requires the original version of the 007 game and a memorycard you can connect to PC like the mega-X-key or datel's action replay. Apparently you can even build this memorycard yourself using a standard USB memstick." Frankly it seems like just soldering in the modchip would be easy, but big points for being clever!
price money? (Score:4, Funny)
Anyway, i think they should award a price to the person that finds a good reason to run linux on a x-box.
Re:price money? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:price money? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, the real test here would be benchmarking UT or Quake on the Xbox against the Walmart Microtel PC. Everyone's whining about how stupid this is, that you can buy a PC for the price of an Xbox, etc, let's see some numbers. The Microtel stuff isn't designed for gaming, the Xbox is. If I can haul ass on UT on the Xbox, it was worth it.
Re:price money? (Score:2)
-dk
Re:price money? (Score:2)
It was worth the $40 I paid for it. Every single penny.
If an Xbox can do the same unmodded, it only opens up that much more. Play PS2 and N64 games? Probably. Play DVDs and DiVX flawl
Re:clueless or troll? (Score:2)
Perhaps a link to the source would be in order (Score:5, Informative)
Here's the announcement [xboxhacker.net] in a forum...
Project B??? (Score:2)
Re:Perhaps a link to the source would be in order (Score:5, Insightful)
About 50 posts of "He's full of crap, there's no way he could make that work, there are dozens of people working on this smarter than he is".
Followed by "Holy crap, it DOES work".
Oddly enough, few of the original posters put up retractions or apoligies for their initial flaming.
Figures... Everyone is "uber-l33t" and quick to jump on a new poster, but few are man enough to stand up and offer apologies when they're forced to eat their words.
Re:Perhaps a link to the source would be in order (Score:2)
Yeah, silly forum posters. Fortunately behavior like that never happens with the people here on
Re:Perhaps a link to the source would be in order (Score:2)
I do get a bit of an ego boost out of proving them wrong though.
I think people are just jaded. The troll who really IS faking it has nothing to lose, and people would rather be sceptical and proven wrong rather than be
Re:Perhaps a link to the source would be in order (Score:4, Funny)
I had a look through the comments attached to the announcement in your link. I'll happily point out that forum to anyone who thinks slashdot is the place with the least signal-to-noise ratio on the 'net
Thats a lot of money they have won (Score:3, Interesting)
Looks like they are getting a lot of money
And no breaking the RSA too...
Theres no fricking way (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Theres no fricking way (Score:2)
Re:Theres no fricking way (Score:2)
Re:Theres no fricking way (Score:2)
That should be: Are there any games any more that are not made by EA Games? I thought they made every game.
But you gain a point for spelling "their" correctly.
Knowing Microsoft's history (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Knowing Microsoft's history (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Knowing Microsoft's history (Score:2)
I'm hoping this "feature" makes it into Palladium and other DRM "solutions" as well....
Re:Knowing Microsoft's history (Score:3, Funny)
Sorry, EA is responsible for this one; you can't claim Microsoft invented it. Microsoft still hasn't invented anything new.
Re:Knowing Microsoft's history (Score:2)
There was no such thing as an email virus before microsoft email clients.
Re:Knowing Microsoft's history (Score:2)
That depends on what your definition of virus is. The goodtimes e-mail was going around before Microsoft even heard of the internet. While it didn't have a payload, the warning message being sent around endlessly was a sort of virus.
prior art (Score:2)
Free... (Score:5, Funny)
Very nice indeed (Score:4, Insightful)
Sweet! (Score:4, Funny)
A bufferoverflow (Score:5, Informative)
a link to the code is:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/007linux.txt
it is uuencoded
enjoy!
modchip easier? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:modchip easier? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:modchip easier? (Score:2)
Absolutely not. Hacking your own machine isn't illegal (yet). And so long as you are not distributing a tool to circumvent a copy protection mechanism, you're not violating (that part) of the DMCA (Instructions are NOT a tool). And as long as no illegal copying of copyrighted material is happening, then you're not violating "traditional" copyright law. IANAL, but I don't see any violation here.
--- Rich
Re:modchip easier? (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, these memory cards seem more legit. They were created for a totally different purpose (supposedly, so are modchips, but the courts see through that argument). Perhaps these would at least stand a chance of being found legal. Then again, given how backwards this whole issue is in regards to the DMCA, I won't hold my breath.
Re:modchip easier? (Score:3, Funny)
Actually, their secret masterplan is to get every object imaginable in the USA banned under the DMCA by applying it in some access control breaking scheme, and so turn the USA into a third world country without anything! They've already succeeded with things like modchips, black markers. Post-it notes might be next, but first in line are USB memory cards!
Oh wait, the copyright holders will still be able to use these objects, and thus the entire USA will be dominated by the Copyright Cartels!
Re:modchip easier? (Score:2)
Modchips are illegal because they contain a snippet of copyrighted MS BIOS code that is used to boot the machine. Distributing this code is illegal under regular copyright laws, even in other countries without DMCA-like laws.
Re:modchip easier? (Score:2)
Re:modchip easier? (Score:3, Funny)
Tools that circumvent copy protection are of course terrorist^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h a violation of the DMCA.
Ergo: 007 Agent under Fire is illegal, since it is a tool to circumvent copy protection. Boy, I can't wait until EA is sued into oblivion
Great. I love US law
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:modchip easier? (Score:2)
Re:modchip easier? (Score:2)
Don't you own the xbox you've mod-chipped? (Score:2)
The proper phrase should be "should not be illegal to modify equipment
i'm dissapointed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:i'm dissapointed (Score:5, Insightful)
Dissapointed? Why? Good for him! (Unless you meant "dissapointed in their closed mindedness", in which case I agree).
When the Xbox-linux team, or CERT, or the FBI, or "Scientists" in general, or *any* group stops listening to outside input because they "know it all" and can do it "better than anyone else", their end has drawn near.
I just find the quote you gave from the Xbox-linux list SOOOOOO offensive, and REALLY hope they fully appreciate the irony of this exploit coming from a newbie.
Not to say I don't appreciate their work, but puh-lease... Suck it up and get some humility. When a group reaches the point that someone has to repeatedly whack them on their collective foreheads with a working demo to get them to even take a look, that group needs to pack it up and let others with a fresh perspective take over. End of story.
Uses for a linux-xbox? (Score:2)
Re:Uses for a linux-xbox? (Score:2)
My other thought is it could be used for a music video jukebox as well, and it could play movies.
It might be time to go pick one up.
Re:Uses for a linux-xbox? (Score:2)
Re:Uses for a linux-xbox? (Score:2)
Re:Uses for a linux-xbox? (Score:2)
Re:Uses for a linux-xbox? (Score:2, Interesting)
Best exploit ever (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Best exploit ever (Score:5, Interesting)
For awhile AOL was using a buffer overrun exploit in AIM to send code to the AIM client that would return a particular hashed value back to the server, which they would use to verify that you were really using their client, instead of something like Gaim or Trillian or Jabber. If the server didn't get the correct response, it would send you a message and disconnect you.
To make a successful clone of AIM, you'd have to emulate the buffer overrun exploit AND generate the correct hash to return in response to their query (which I believe was a checksum of a certian part of the aim.exe binary - apparently this was a Windows-only exploit).
Since several clients are working with the OSCAR protocol with few problems, I guess they're not doing this anymore? Anyway, I wouldn't call this the "best", since it's a somewhat evil thing to do, but certainly the most creative I've ever heard of.
Effects on Palladium? Inherent X-box security? (Score:2)
And if X-box is supposed to be a proving ground for Palladium and the security concious Microsoft, does the possibility of getting in via broken but signed apps have wider implications?
Xix.
Everything you need for running linux unmodded (Score:4, Informative)
Hmm... (Score:2)
What I'm wondering is how exactly it works? I'm sure the bootable save is probably altered to boot linux as opposed to the game, but how'd they do it?
Anyone have any _solid_ info?
easier than micro-soldering? (Score:4, Funny)
It isn't easy... just hope those components are caps or resistors that aren't important. I would much rather use software than hardware... Now if only we could crack a key?
Hm... nice... (Score:2)
/me surfs on over to ebay and orders up a $100 xbox =)
I Predicted This (Score:5, Interesting)
The next big advance will be somebody doing power consumption or timing analysis while the xbox is checking (bad) signatures, and teasing out the key a bit at a time. Then you will be able to sign anything you like. (Look up Markus Kuhn's papers.)
Re:I Predicted This (Score:2)
Once the key-extraction process is elaborated, for it to be very useful you would need to apply it to a whole farm of Xboxes -- assuming MS really did do the smart thing.
Teasing out the key won't help (Score:4, Insightful)
holy crap! (Score:3, Funny)
but on the bright side, i think march's issue of computer gaming monthly has a nice guide for what you can do with your worthless game disc once you realize it is NOT to be placed in your console (or PC) ever, EVER again!
This won't be the only one.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, there are two ways MS can entirely prevent this. One is to re-structure the X-box OS so that buffer overflows just cannot occur. There are theoritical techniques for this if I'm not mistaken; but nobody's got a horribly good reason to do this. MS does now I guess.
Or, MS could do a security audit on all the code for a game before it comes out and verify that it's free of buffer overflows. Baahahaha!
Mega X-Key (Score:3, Informative)
I knew it! (Score:2)
The only way to protect against it is to provide an API for writing to the memory card/hard drive that closes off all possibilities for buffer overflows, and then lock out people from "programming the metal" directly.
I have a GOOD use for this (Score:5, Insightful)
My Xbox is going back to MS as they have attempted to fix a problem several times and have so far been unsuccessful. This time, they're considering swapping systems for a new one, which I'm fine with except for one thing: Loss of saved games.
They will not just swap drives as it would save them at least 5 minutes of work, so I will lose all of my info on the HD.
With Linux running on my unmodded Xbox, I could possibly FTP the data elsewhere and restore it on the new system. This makes so much sense to me that I wonder why there is no way of doing it by default.
Microsoft's idea is to purchase their Memory Units and backup this way. Problem is, since each Xbox comes with a hard drive, no developer tries to make the smallest possible size save file. I would need several MUs to backup my data. Plus, some files cannot even be copied to a MU which means they cannot be backed up at all.
Some form of backup should exist to relieve this problem. I think that this could be it.
A plot by EA? (Score:4, Funny)
2. Leak information to XBox-Linux community
3. Profit!!!!
They could even get the lindows.com award money if they did it right.
palladium next ? (Score:2)
New slogan (Score:3, Funny)
In other news... (Score:3, Funny)
The software was found to be illegal by the standards of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act, in that it allowed users to potentially run bootleg computer games.
Microsoft's decision was backed firmly by the RIAA, MPAA..
Not quite... (Score:2, Informative)
This depends on whether or not you are actually good at soldering. I for one have destroyed many PSX's in the past due to my clumsiness. Regardless, CT forgot one important fact: if you mod your XboX, you will _permanently_ (well, without some creative hacking and another Xbox, which, in having one already defeats the purpose) lose the ability to use Xbox Live, as the Xbox's unique,internal serial numbe
Re:Not quite... (Score:2)
Money? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Should see the game being pulled out of the market soon, making XBox hacking illegal again
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not a war. This project is just a good show of hacking spirit. Remember that this is how Linux got started in the first place.
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:4, Insightful)
The analogy I heard was that of being invited to a free dinner at someone's house and ending up demanding to supervise the cooking.
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
No, it is like buying food, taking it home, and then demanding to get to decide yourself how you are going to cook it.
Sounds pretty fair to me, but then my "you are a consumer not an individual" re-education is not completed yet...
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
The analogy was given to the gentleman trying to steer efforts away from the XBox Linux project and toward more desktop development. Buying an XBox has nothing to do with getting anything for free, and two thumbs up to the people making unsigned code use possible! :-)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:5, Interesting)
With a Linux-based OS running on XBox, you have a machine capable of playing some great games, with a bit of work a PVR using Myth TV [mythtv.com], and also a general entertainment center capable of playing music, DVDs, and the like - all in a box specifically designed for the TV room instead of a beige box.
I'm pretty sure this is also Microsoft's vision, however making it Linux-based would give us the choice of operating system and the choice between paying .Net (or whatever they call it these days) subscriptions and paying a one-time fee (or not) for the brains of the system.
Tim
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
So, in which of the nonexistant PCI slots in the Xbox are you going to put your tuner card?
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
Aren't modules pretty much the solution here? -N
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'll work on whatever I bloody well want to, and so will everyone else.
Re:Okay and now on to some important things.. (Score:2)
Re:Action replay? (Score:2)
Uh yeah, you know that thing called a "Gameshark" in the U.S.? That's an Action Replay, made by Datel, then resold by Interact who licensed it from Datel and gave it a silly name.
Recently Datel decided to terminate Interact's contract and do direct sales in the U.S. market, so it looks like the Action Replay is now being sold under that name again over here.
In the rest of the world it's always been a Date
Re:Sounds like a DMCA violation (Score:5, Insightful)
-- Rich
Re:Sounds like a DMCA violation (Score:2)
This sounds pretty damn spiffy to me, I like the idea of using an XBox to run Linux software - and I don't see doing this can be seen as breaking any laws. I mean, you'd not be pirating anything, or modifying anything it HAS to be in the clear - right?
So Then... (Score:2)
Re:Sounds like a DMCA violation (Score:2)
The 007AUF exploit enables arbitrary, unsigned code to be executed on the XBox- not just Linux, but any other program could be run, without authorization from Microsoft or the copyright holder.
Currently, XBox games are protected from piracy by two technical measures: all game binaries must be signed by Microsoft before being playable, and
Re:help (Score:3, Funny)
2. Walk down Second Avenue towards St. Mark's Place
3. Look for those people selling used books and other junk on the street
4. Look for the broken toaster oven on the blanket
5. ???
6. Penis!
Re:Why? (Score:2)
If you (or someone nearby) has ALREADY purchased an X-Box to play games on, it would be interesting to repurpose that existing hardware.
It has also been suggested that Microsoft loses money on every X-Box sale, and attempts to make it up in game sales, so by buying an X-Box and no games, you're costing them money, which is good because they're evil. Personally I wouldn't recommend buying one for this reason alone, but that's me.
Re:Why? (Score:2)
In other words, If you (or someone nearby) has ALREADY purchased an X-Box to play games on, it would be interesting to stop playing games, right? At this time it's hard to count good Linux games. As for *Wine*, it's not stable enough to be used in real life.
It has also been suggested that Microsoft loses money on every X-Box sale, and attempts to make it up in game sale
Re:Why? (Score:2)
By repurpose [reference.com] I meant use for a different purpose, yes - use the X-Box for something other than playing games.
So, paying M$ for Xbox I will help to destroy the evil? Tell me you're kidding. Personally I would rather donate money to some Linux fund or
Because a person CAN (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Because it has TV/video out that works, stero sound that works, it looks good next to a TV, and it is cheap. Sure I could build a computer with most of that, but cheap is already out, a nice looking case would just about be more than an Xbox. Now find a TV card that works on linux. (Doable, but not all work so be careful) Of course the computer I build would be faster, but that wasn't a requirement.
A xbox is a good machine for those expirimenting with linux as a control for their home enertainment system. It isn't good for general purpose computing, but it is good for living room applications. Drop MAME, stella, atari800, etc on it and you can play a lot more games. With a good net connection you can download movies from the internet and play them on a TV, which is bitter than the monitor most people have. (I don't know where to find legal movies, but that is a different issue. I'm sure you can find one though, which will prove to the judge that copyright infringement isn't the only reason for this)
Re:April Fools? (Score:2)
Sometimes people only speak when they having something worth saying. Other times they listen and experiment. The anonymous hacker appears to fall into this category.
"True wisdom comes from recognizing that the wise don't have all the answers, and that sometimes the village idiot sees the answer where the wise don't dare look."
Re:April Fools? (Score:2)
Nowadays, for almost a month leading up to April 1 (and sometimes a week or 2 after), seemingly EVERYTHING is 'close enough to April Fool
Re:And now I has linux... (Score:2, Informative)