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Linux Software

Installing Linux On A Wal-Mart OS-less machine 390

Posted by Hemos from the how-to dept.
Azar writes "An article at Newsforge details the experience of installing Linux on Wal-Mart's OS-less PC. It states: 'A few months ago, super-sized discount store Wal-Mart made the headlines in the Linux world by becoming the first major U.S. retailer to offer PCs without Windows preloaded...While this was widely hailed in the Open Source community as a victory over the "Microsoft tax," which usually afflicts buyers of Linux PCs, one major question remained unanswered: How well do these machines support Linux?' Here is your answer." Newsforge is owned by OSDN, which also owns Slashdot, is all part of the sinister Andover keiretsu.
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Installing Linux On A Wal-Mart OS-less machine More

Installing Linux On A Wal-Mart OS-less machine

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  • Summary for the lazy (Score:4, Informative)

    by NewbieSpaz ( 172080 ) <nofx_punkguy@lin ... UTrg minus punct> on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @07:33AM (#3441870) Homepage
    As long as you have experience putting linux on a PC, this should be no problem, as long as you don't need a modem; it's a winmodem.

    • Re:Summary for the lazy (Score:5, Insightful)

      by flipflapflopflup ( 311459 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @08:08AM (#3441955) Homepage
      I disagree:

      > As long as you have experience putting linux on a PC

      the author picked "newbie" options every time, and everything worked straight away (bar the modem). So it would be fair to say "You don't need experience of putting Linux on a PC"

      >as long as you don't need a modem; it's a winmodem

      If you look at the comments further down, several people got the modem to work (albiet having to recomile their kernels). So it *is* possible to get the modem to work under Linux. Admittedly, maybe beyong a beginner.

      • About the modem (Score:3, Informative)

        by AchilleTalon ( 540925 )
        I haven't try with the actual Walmart PC, however, I own a Lucent modem and I made it working fine without recompiling the kernel.

        The source code compiles fine and a script complete the installation. There is even pre-packaged drivers for many distros including: RedHat and Debian. So, yes it is not straight forward, but is not as painful as recompiling the kernel.

      • Show me a driver for a type 048c Lucent modem (Score:5, Informative)

        by RC Pavlicek ( 8145 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @12:20PM (#3443613) Homepage
        I'm the author of the piece at NewsForge.

        Let's get this straight: the modem does not work.

        The people who say they have a working Lucent modem do not have this Lucent modem. This Lucent modem (type 048c) is not supported by any driver I can find. One of the people who insisted that the modem works had a type 0440, which is supported by the Lucent driver.

        If someone has a patch that makes the 048c modem work, I'll be glad to try it. But the ltmodem driver does not have it, according to the documentation.
    • This used to be true... My Compaq E500 has a "winmodem" that works perfectly in linux. there have been great strieds in reverse engineering these abortions of hardware called winmodems, and open source is winning...

  • Why oh why did they use a software modem? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by GnomeKing ( 564248 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @07:35AM (#3441875)
    did walmart use a modem designed for windows on a machine that did not have windows pre-installed?

    Sure, that particular modem can be supported under linux (and other operating systems?), but the clear point of these machines was that they did not have windows pre-loaded

    so why use components that are designed for windows and often wont work with other operating systems?
    • because they're cheaper.
      • Not by much, I buy wholesale and a hardware 56Kbs modem is only $10 more expensive then the equivalant software modem.
        • I buy wholesale and a hardware 56Kbs modem is only $10 more expensive then the equivalant software modem.

          Even if your definition of "wholesale quantity" is the same as Walmart's (probably not, eh? :-) that still adds up to a nice chunk of change when you're looking at selling a million or so machines.

          Still, this is something people should complain about.
        • No, not that the modems are cheaper. They sell Windows-hardware-boxen without Windows because the boxen are cheaper that way. You can put on your warezed (or legitimate) copy of Windows for zero cost. I doubt very much you will ever get anyone from Walmart endorsing Linux or giving you Linux install help. This is about cheap crap not open-source. And Walmart is very good at pushing cheap crap.
        • Not by much, I buy wholesale and a hardware 56Kbs modem is only $10 more expensive then the equivalant software modem.

          But the way computer manufacturer's accounting works, you multiply the hardware cost by a factor of 3 or 4 to get the suggested retail price (at least last time I was involved with it, way back when hardware had a profit margin). This works out to a $30 or more difference to the end user.

          I know that the fixed factor is bogus, but that's the way accountants think. Even if you convince someone that you don't need to assign the same overhead and profit numbers to the extra $10, somebody later on is going to come back and ask why this product's base materials cost is out of line with the rest of your products.

        • 10 dollars is a HUGE ammount of money given the quantities these guys must handle.

    • Re:Why oh why did they use a software modem? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by levik ( 52444 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @07:51AM (#3441912) Homepage
      Somehow, I doubt that the decision to drop windows from the bundle was motivated by the highter purpose of giving users a choice. The idea was to cut corners where possible. Since when looking at the spec sheet, the absence of an OS isn't what strikes you right away, they probably thought this was one of the corners they could cut more or less unnoticed.

      Now given that it was never their intent to promote the use of alternative OS, I think their decision to use a (cheaper) winmodem, makes all the sense in the world. Its disappointing to the /.ers because we just go and assume that anyone who unbundles windows from a system is a Good Guy (tm). But really, sometimes people are just greedy.

      • Re:Why oh why did they use a software modem? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by arivanov ( 12034 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @12:09PM (#3443537) Homepage
        yep you are asbolutely correct.

        I would only add that MSFT also cut a few corners on the spot. The new draft of the agreement with the DOJ has a clause that prohibits OEMs from OSless machines. It may not be MSFT but it must have OS. Which in reality means MSFT

        So Walmart just got demonstrated by MSFT how do you cut corners on its own turf. And was sufficiently stupid not to fill an amicus curae. Sigh... some people that claim to be experienced businessmen never stop to amuse me...
        • It may not be MSFT but it must have OS. Which in reality means MSFT

          That's a fair comment; but honestly I wonder, if wal-mart already has the balls to ship 'no OS' I wonder how much harder it would be to put an unsupported linux distribution on the hard drive.

          I could see them going with debian (disclaimer: I use mandrake), just so there was less "confusion" about support. Heck they could put something more useless than NT's posix layer on the hard disk as long as they did *something*. I didn't think disk replicating machines were that hard to find.

          • After finding out that we are required to ship the original MSFT OS (not the same, the original with the original license numbers) with any PC we dispose of to charities and such we are considering the same approach.

            See the article on the register for more:

            http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25085.htm l

            I am no f*** reseller of MSFT to keep track of products we do not use and do not pay license for. Wipe and put an "unsupported" linux on it. Solves all questions on the spot.
    • Mabye becouse winmodems are cheap?

      I know what you are saying, and I agree, but some marketing idiot said the PC needed a modem and look into a cataloug and found the cheapist thing they could get.
      • I know what you are saying, and I agree, but some marketing idiot said the PC needed a modem and look into a cataloug and found the cheapist thing they could get.

        And if they were any good they would realize they could save $7 off the BOM cost and not include any modem at all. Sell a separate modem if it is needed (many don't need a modem anymore). Modems are a support headache anyway.

    • Re:Why oh why did they use a software modem? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by banuaba ( 308937 ) <drbork&hotmail,com> on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @09:54AM (#3442486)
      Because most people who buy these machines are going to use pirated copies of Windows on them. I mean, it's great that you can buy machine where you get free reign on what OS you run, but when we're talking about regular people, the point remains that nobody runs linux. These people are going to borrow their sister's copy of windows XP or ME or whatever and throw that bad boy onto this box.
      • Or student copies or copies that MS gives them for free @ conferences or full retail versions they can buy cheaper online then OEM versions or they transfer their win98 full retail lic over or a few other legit ways to get windows on a box cheap

        Its not always about the piracy, g

  • Interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

    by enneff ( 135842 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @07:44AM (#3441900) Homepage
    Kudos to the author of this article, as it was genuinely interesting and informative.

    These machines are obviously an affordable, functional, and useful personal computing package for the 'alternative' (or perhaps just plain thrifty) user. Perhaps Red Hat or another distribution vendor should strike up a deal with Wal-Mart to bundle copies of Linux with the machines? It's been done before with not a huge amount of success, but Wal-Mart is a pretty powerful distribution mechanism, and the product already exists minus one inexpensive and 'easy-to-include' component.

    How long do you think it will take for other hardware vendors to follow a similiar path? Is there enough demand for it? Does Microsoft offer too great an incentive (target market, for example) for vendors to switch away from their platform?
    • These machines are obviously an affordable

      Not as affordable as one might think. Here's a link to the PCs in question [walmart.com]. They don't look much better than a bundled Dell or Gateway entry with Windows and all that other stuff. Not that I am for Windows or anything. I just think it would be better for everyone if they didn't scrap the OS for the sake of raising margins.
  • Has anyone tried putting FreeBSD on one of these? I wouldn't expect the modem to fare any better, but it would be interesting to find out whether the rest of the package came up successfully.

  • But. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ath0mic ( 519762 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @07:52AM (#3441913)
    How many people, who buy computers at Walmart, are willing to installing Linux/read these instructions.

    • Attention Wal-Mart Shoppers (Score:4, Insightful)

      by ebooher ( 187230 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @10:04AM (#3442569) Homepage Journal

      Look, you are viewing this backward I think. Maybe I'm the one viewing it backward. The point is this, however.

      Wal-Mart does not care about the people who are usually shopping at Wal-Mart when they are selling them these computers. This, in my humble opinion, was never about the typical Wal-Mart shopper.

      Someone in Wal-Mart management was only just savvy enough to recognize that there was a computer community in full force that did not want to have Windows on their computer. It goes back to the basics of supply and demand.

      There is a community of people demanding that computers be available without Microsoft anything.

      There is now a supplier of computers without Microsoft anything.

      Now, with news sites like Slashdot running stories on it. More people are going to be saying to themselves. "I could hit walmart.com, pick up a new clone and drop linux on it." Some of them might even be saying "I could drop my existing copy of Windows on it."

      Even if the machine isn't a major name brand, Wal-Mart has more people than ever looking their way now because of this. With the whole Microsoft trial, and the all the anti-Microsoft sentiment right now, this is probably just the thing for Wal-Mart to do.

      Even if they can't pull in the "build it yourself" crowd. Joe Sixpack has heard from all his buddies who are in the crowd how bad the "Microsoft Tax" really is. Even if they end up installing Windows anyway, these machines still get a quick look.

      The only thing I can say is that it appears to be a win/win situation for Wal-Mart.

  • At Wal-Marts website at the bottom of the page that features the Windows-less machines is the following note with respective links:
    See all computers without operating systems. Also, check out our selection of Linux books.
    Yes folks, they are PROMOTING Linux for these machines. So it might be possible that they could bundle a distro with the pc in the future.
    • They are promoting high margin books, not free, as in beer, linux. Funny part is, the direct cost to the consumer for windows used to be $15, I would assume that it hasn't changed by much. I wonder how much a linux for dummies book goes for, and a package of redhat off the shelf? They've just convinced people they are saving money by spending more :). And they're being cheered for it. No wonder Walmart is number 1.
    • How much would it cost W'mart to sell these machines with a pre-loaded Linux image? Surely if they cut a gold image it would only cost a few cents to ghost them onto the hard drives before they went into the machines? Or they could produce a "recovery CD", which restores a Linux image which works on that hardware?

      How much better for the customer to go home with a system which they can plug in and start playing nethack straight away without having to obtain and install a Linux distro.

      And it would annoy the crap out of M$.

      Dunstan

      • Re:Why not pre-install Linux? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        > How much would it cost W'mart to sell these machines with a pre-loaded Linux image? Surely if they cut a gold image it would only cost a few cents to ghost them onto the hard drives before they went into the machines? Or they could produce a "recovery CD", which restores a Linux image which works on that hardware?

        It would cost them support, which they currently don't have - you install the OS, you support it. If they preinstall the OS, customers could reasonably expect Walmart to support them, and Walmart doesn't really want to be in the full-service OEM business, they want to be bare box shifters. They'd have to explicitly state that OS support comes from the OS vendor, not them.

        Walmart doesn't give a damn about annoying/not annoying Microsoft, Walmart cares deeply about lowering their costs / maximizing their profits as much as humanly possible. So, unnecessary support costs are Not Going To Happen.
        • Since when does a machine with Windows pre-loaded come with any support? If the machine is shipped with a recovery CD (you boot the machine from it, and it is back in the same state as when it came from the shop) then that's as much support as you get with pre-installed Windows. They could also contract a third party (e.g. RedHat?) to provide support via a premium rate phone service.

          This would be a perfect embodiment of what RMS wrote 15 (or more) years ago - that if software is free then businesses can make money out of selling support and handholding.

          How does this help Walmart make bigger profits? Because they will ship *far* more machines if they are "working systems" where prople can do real work (and play real games) rather than bare machines which need someone to install an OS before they can do anything. Remember, the whole Windows OEM scam started with the premise that "people shouldn't have to install an OS before they can start using their computer".

          Dunstan
      • It might be even neater for them to have 5 or 6 Linux distros on ghosted CDs all customized for these configurations, ready to install in the store.

        That might impress people about Linux. Oh, new computer user? Here, have this Lycoris. Linux purist? Would you like Gentoo or Slackware? Server? Have this RedHat or SuSe. All installed free of charge while you go shop the store.

        Maybe have Lycoris or similar on all the machines already, to make it really easy for people who don't know enough to express a preference. Maybe try to sell those people the distro itself, so they can have the 30 days of handholding.

      • How much would it cost W'mart to sell these machines with a pre-loaded Linux image?

        I bet it would cost them even less (and be more likely to happen) if a reputable Linux distro volunteered to compile the custom build, do QA testing, and create the master HD image for them. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

  • Modem works? (Score:5, Informative)

    by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @08:08AM (#3441957) Homepage Journal

    Some of the followups to that article mention that a working version of the modem driver can be obtained from http://www.heby.de/ltmodem [www.heby.de].

    Given this, it would be nice if someone could put together a complete linux distro (complete with the OpenOffice suite, etc.) ready-to-run on this box. Heck, maybe we could even convince Wal-Mart to give it away with every box!

    • Re:Modem works? (Score:2, Informative)

      by InodoroPereyra ( 514794 )

      Some of the followups to that article mention that a working version of the modem driver can be obtained from http://www.heby.de/ltmodem

      Yes, but there is a later post by the author of the article, insisting that it is not supported: "Well, I opened the ltmodem source kit and started doing some investigating. It appears that this chipset is unsupported by the ltmodem driver. The scanPCI program does not find a supported card and lspci shows an ID that indicates it is this chipset:
      http://www.idir.net/~gromitkc/agere/ager e_SV92P.ht ml
      I pulled the card and inspected the chips. It uses the SV92P chip.
      It is unsupported.      "

      This is a real issue, and it seems to be still open, so I ask: has anyone
      really GOTTEN THIS MODEM TO WORK with the lt driver ?. If not, walmart will be pissing people off unnecessarily. There are plenty of cheap but supported winmodems.

      Given this, it would be nice if someone could put together a complete linux distro (complete with the OpenOffice suite, etc.) ready-to-run on this box. Heck, maybe we could even convince Wal-Mart to give it away with every box!

      As many people pointed out in the linuxtoday followup, Wal-Mart wants you to do-it-yourself because:
      1. They want to make a clear point: it is for geeks
      2. They do not want to have to invest in support

      But that raises another question: why do the distro sellers not sell preinstalled machines ?. They could ship the machine with the CDs, and
      offer you support for some extra bucks. It's a win-win, they sell the soft + the hard + optional support. I cannot understand WHY they do not do it (except for lycoris, but they sell you dual boot plus I don't trust them).
      I would love to go to mandrake.com or suse.com ot redhat.com or whatever, click, configure my deskop, and buy. Of course, I would expect competitive price and no M$ Tax.

    • Modem DOES NOT work (Score:2, Interesting)

      by RC Pavlicek ( 8145 )
      Yes, you can get a driver at that location.

      But, according to the documentation, that driver DOES NOT support the specific chipset used in this particular Lucent modem.

      The Lucent driver does not support ALL Lucent modems.
  • So it appears that the Wal-Mart machine as tested makes a very reasonable Linux box. But I suggest you lose the Lucent modem card and replace it with a real hardware modem. I have more respect for Wal-Mart now. I used to scoff at shopping there, but if they can produce this kind of barebones system, at a very low cost, that can handle Windows and Linux with equal ease then the state of the computer as a home appliance is improving greatly. As for me, I buy my computers from a friend who owns a computer store so I probably won't be getting one myself.
  • I think it's horrible they sell a naked PC that has hardware that requires Windows to be used. Some sort of notice that this PC has hardware that won't work unless you use Microsoft Windows, which isn't installed on this PC and you'll need to buy a copy that costs about half what the PC itself costs...

    It would have also been nice to throw in a piece of paper with instructions about your choices for an operating system to load, including a note that to install Windows, you must buy a full-price retail copy of it.

    I'm all for getting rid of the Microsoft tax, but this just smacks of promoting piracy, frustrating users, and adding fuel to microsoft's arguments about how bad an idea naked PCs are.

    On the other hand, if it never had an OEM Windows PC on it, you don't have to worry about violating the law [theregister.co.uk] for removing it...

    • Re:I find the modem pretty low... (Score:4, Informative)

      by Uruk ( 4907 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @08:42AM (#3442080)
      I think it's horrible they sell a naked PC that has hardware that requires Windows to be used.

      Check the other comments - the modem in this machine can be used by Linux and other operating systems.

      Also, as for it being a naked PC, it's not like they're not warning you - find the link in the article to Walmart's site and you'll see that they trumpet it underneath every ad - "THIS PC DOES NOT INCLUDE A COPY OF WINDOWS" in bold. At the top, it recommends users read their PC guide or something before buying, and states that the computers do not include a required operating system.

      I think things like this are a VICTORY for consumers. Sure, this product isn't the right thing for some people, but for others, it is the perfect thing. Sure, there are people out there who could mistakenly buy this but I'm glad the option is available for people like me who want a cheap addition to the home LAN.

    • "I'm all for getting rid of the Microsoft tax, but this just smacks of promoting piracy, frustrating users, and adding fuel to microsoft's arguments about how bad an idea naked PCs are."

      While I see your point, let's not forget that there's a legitimate, purely Windows-centric solution to the problem that doesn't involve forking over extra money: existing, non-OEM Windows licenses. If a user has already purchased a retail copy of Windows, they can install it on the new machine provided that they completely remove it from their old one.

      Admittedly, I don't know how many non-OEM copies of Windows are floating around, as it seems most people purchasing a computer would go for an OEM bundle. Still, they're at least theoretically out there.

    • I think it's horrible they sell a naked PC that has hardware that requires Windows to be used.

      I think you're assuming that they knew. This is Wal-Mart guys... do you honestly think anyone even tried to turn the machines on? Technical knowledge is not their strong suit. They sell items as cheaply as possible. My guess is that the manufacturer they bought it from just told them "it has a modem".
  • A couple of years ago, beowulf clusters was made from a bunch of 'relatively' cheap ALPHAs. I wonder if there will be a new breed of beowulf clusters, made from a bunch a REALLY cheap Sam Walton branded PCs? :-)

    Can you imagine a rack full of PCs with the sticker "Sam's Choice" on them all? LOL

    Just thought that I'd give you all a chuckle.... :-)

  • very cool article (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ACK!! ( 10229 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @08:50AM (#3442114) Journal
    I was very glad to hear that most distros installed on the machine with no trouble I was thinking about getting one these things myself.

    I hear some people painting the winmodem experience as typical but I have used the ltmodem packages on four different machines with great results. Below in some of the comments it is explaining that this particular one is a chipset that is not really supported. Still, the ltmodem modules work great for the winmodem in my Dell 4000 right now.

    What I like is that he did not just install one distro and let it go at that. He installed multiple distros which gives a reviewer a much nicer base of experience to speak from.

    Read carefully his experiences with the install. It just goes to show linux installs are getting much easier and autodetection is very good.

    There are still gotchas (his was the modem) but anyone not using Windows pre-loaded from the manufacturer to work with that machine will come up with at least one install gotcha. My gotcha was the free Umax scanner that came with my laptop. Xsane still has no driver for it because of Umax's bull-headedness. The funny thing is that Dell started selling the Epson 1250 after that and I hear they work great with Linux. Argh!

    ________________________________________________ __

  • Not exactly OT - Consider the Date. (Score:4, Informative)

    by SubtleNuance ( 184325 ) on Wednesday May 01, 2002 @09:10AM (#3442209) Journal
    I would suggest you all consider NOT shopping at Walmart -- for anything at all -- read this please [alternet.org]

    It is very sad that this story is also posted on May Day, which is (as another /. headline states) Labour Day everywhere else in the world but Canada, USA and SouthAfrica. Did you know May Day became Labour Day because of the American Labour Movement? Read a little history here [blackened.net]

    • Wal Mart's can be hard to find in cities, so many people may not know what a godsend they are to rural america. WalMart stores are typically located on cheap land--which is mostly rural America and out suburbs of the some large towns they can be found in. It's very similar to how Southwest on flies into and out of cities/airports with cheap airport fees and terminal space.

      And I encourage you to look at WalMart's prices and compare with others. They _are_ pretty damn low. Even in the small rural towns where Wal Mart has already put small mom & pop stores out of business and cornered the market. This is about the only downside of WalMart's--the little guys can't compete with them.

      They provide many items which may not be sold in the immediate area also (shopping selection in rural America tends to be very limited). They have a good distrobution system where the ship the things that aren't selling real well in one location to another where they are during the night via truck. For instance, during the Missouri floods they would bring in sand, shovles, flashlights from other stores and ship things like riding lawnmowers and plastic play pools out.

      This sounds more like a hit piece against corporations/Fortune 10 than truth. The article is seething with angst and loathing from the denotations of the adjecives and adverbs used.

      Also remember, Sams is also connected to the Waltons and contributes heftily to the profits also. Anyone who has bought one bag of chicken wings for $10 to feed themselves for a month knows the joy of Sams :)
      • This is about the only downside of WalMart's--the little guys can't compete with them.

        That and the products made in Saipan so they can be produced in third-world sweatshops and still bear a "Made in the USA" label.

    • read this book (Score:3, Interesting)

      by EddydaSquige ( 552178 )
      read this book [amazon.com] by Bill Quinn. It describes how truely evil Wal-Mart is. I've seen small town that have had their retail economies stripmined by Wal-Mart, and seen towns have to hire ful-time legal staffs whose job is solely to keep Wal-Mart out. In Grey's Harbor WA, after the town voted down Wal-Marts bid to buy property to build, they discovered that most of the other bids where placed buy Wal-Mart though dummy corporations.

      I'd rather live in a world dominated by Bill Gates than one dominated by Sam Walton.

      • Re:read this book (Score:3, Informative)

        by grub ( 11606 )

        I'd rather live in a world dominated by Bill Gates than one dominated by Sam Walton.

        Woo, that would be creepy as Old Sam died in 1992 [about.com].
        I'd be horrified to see his lumbering corpse giving orders over his zombie global domination network.. "Brains.. BRAINS!"
    • Not to mention they:
      • drive away locallly owned businesses
      • are notorious for having unsafe stores and parking lots
      • are America's largest retailer of music, yet only carry censored versions of CDs, thus influencing the music industry
      • pour money into the Republican party (which may or may not be a problem for you)
  • All he tested was a Duron at 1GHz. I would like to see the results from doing the same tests with the higher end models. The way he made it sound, you could get a much better PC for about $600 and most of the components would probably be PCI and not wired to the motherboard. When you get the lowest of low end, like a Duron, it frequently comes with one of those do-it-all motherboards that has substandard (in my opinion) components, such as the modem and ethernet interface.

    It was a thorough review of the low end machine, I admit, but I'd really like to see how the higher end machines performed. $880, or whatever he said the max price was, isn't that much for a 2Ghz machine with 512MB ram, and I think that would still be a "price concious" buy for a linux user.
  • Why doesn't Wal-Mart just preinstall linux themselves on these? It would expose Linux to people who otherwise probably wouldn't try it, and hey.. maybe they'll even like it and keep it!
    • Because Wal-Mart is not selling these to push Linux. They are selling these because some people who already own computers (and have install CDs for Windows of some variety) would like to save a few bucks on newer hardware without having to rebuy their OS. That much is obvious from their choice of modems.
  • I installed 2k Pro for non-profit on one of their 1.4 athlon's. It came with good driver cd's for M$ products. A bit loud, but working fine.
  • I'm posting this on my $250 PC I bought recently at a Fry's in Southern California. I'm pretty happy with it. It comes with trimmed-down Linux, which I replaced with Mandrake.

    It has a winmodem, which I couldn't get to work. Don't know whether BTC has their own propretary driver module or if there is really an open-source driver available. Anyway, I just ended up buying an external modem for $30 on e-bay, and that works fine.

    A few minor problems: I had to turn on sw_cursor in my XF86Config, because the video card's hardware acceleration feature for drawing the mouse cursor wasn't working correctly. (This was an intermittent bug that would show up every day or two.) Ethernet also didn't work correctly at first. Had to download the mii and 8139too modules and add the relevant insmod lines to rc.modules.

  • Linux users who are not going to use Windows face a Windows tax when buying a computer from a distribtor like Gateway, granted. However, what incentive would a new user have NOT to pay the Windows "tax"? You may say that the user wishes to save however many dollars extra is costs to have Windows preinstalled, but realize that that money's going to go straight to buying RedHat (or whatever).

    Yes,yes, I know these are downloadable for free, but what *newbie* is going to download the image files and burn them to a CD? Unless the newbie wants to try out Linux, I'd wager that the costs for either option are roughly the same. (RedHat 7.2 costing $59.95 - I don't know what the tax is on a Windows OEM version, but I'd bet it's comparable.)

    I guess I just don't see how this cheaper model (stripped of the "Windows tax") really saves newbies much money, if any at all...
    • I guess I just don't see how this cheaper model (stripped of the "Windows tax") really saves newbies much money, if any at all...

      How about this then?

      If they're forced to buy Windows and they want Linux, Windows does not provide Linux, so they will buy Linux and will have paid unnecessarily for Windows.

      Not paying for Windows would have saved them money.
      • I agree with you there, if a newbie WANTS to install Linux, then yes, this saves him money. But if he's saying, "I'll use Linux just because it will save me money," then, unless he gets an image off the Web, he's really not saving anything at all. That was the point I was trying to make...

  • WinModem (Score:2, Insightful)

    by StaffInfection ( 577277 )
    Keyword that should have been included in this article is WINMODEM. Drivers have not been distributed with the latest distros of linux, but there is a .org of developers that have Linmodem drivers under construction. Presently beta versions though. Good article though. Walmart should have sold the HW with full HW modems but that would have tacked on another $50.

    Jaxs

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