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Dueling Distros - It's All Good, Apparently 180

Posted by timothy from the insert-disk-into-drive-zero dept.
An Anonymous Coward points to a review listed on osfaq.com, summarizing: "Red Hat's latest release is here with the much improved 2.4 kernel. Its new features make it a compelling upgrade for both server and workstation installation. In addition, there has been more of an emphasis on security in this release than in previous Red Hat releases." Similarly, another nameless reader writes: " The Duke of URL has given Libranet a favourable review. It looks like Libranet may be heading toward becoming one of the big players in the Linux distributions game." I'm still looking for a good review of Mandrake 8.0, which seems to have generated few reviews so far. (Or distro reviews willing to be a little harsher in general.)
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Dueling Distros - It's All Good, Apparently More

Dueling Distros - It's All Good, Apparently

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  • Watch out for AbiSuite fonts... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward

    I had some fonts problems also, and finally tracked it down to installing AbiWord and the sucky fonts that go with it. I looked at /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/fs/config , which is the font server config file, and uncommented the line that tells it to look in the AbiSuite fonts dir.

    (You need to "/etc/rc.d/init.d/xfs restart" before the change will take effect.)

  • All of them suck (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Dueling distros? ALL of them suck. Maybe get that guy working on useless junk like streaming Slashdot headlines to a panel to work on user friendliness and readable documentation instead.

    Linux has no future except among total dorks and people that would rather screw around with their computers instead of interact with the rest of society.

  • In Red Hat 7.0 and 7.1, you can manage xinetd (they don't use the old inetd anymore) with chkconfig. Dunno about ntsysv.

  • AFAIK, RH's gcc isn't broken anymore. It's still Red Hat's "gcc-2.96", but it's been patched to deal with the bugs in the first release of gcc-2.96 (in RH 7.0). The compiler should be fine.
  • Hi. Our site's supported distibution is Redhat. I'm a Debian user of days yore, and am a little lost: is there an equivalent of "apt-get dist-upgrade" on Redhat? In other words, how do I go about upgrading from 7.0 to 7.1?

    thanks!
    nick
  • Mebbe, mebbe not.

    Those security issues (and bit rot) can actually be significant. Plus, the flying window logo is no gaurantee that your installation or daily use experience will be any simpler with WinDOS.

    If you can admin your own box, Unix will not tend to hide useful information from you.

    If you can't admin your own box, Unix will make it easier on the expert that does.

    Linux can actually be EASIER to configure than windows. I'd still like to know how to get Win2K to put a monitor in DPMS suspend mode at will.
  • There's a couple of things you can do, none of which are quite as easy as "apt-get dist-upgrade".

    1) You can download the entire RPMS directory from a RedHat mirror to a directory, then type "rpm -Fvh *.rpm" in that directory as root and wait while it searches and updates installed RPMs (-F means "freshen"). However that doesn't resolve dependencies, so you'll need to -Uvh some packages that don't have older versions installed. I've done this a time or two and it works reasonably well.

    2) You can download the entire "RedHat" directory (includes RPMS directory and a couple others), then download the installer imgs (boot.img, net.img, pcmcia.img), dump them to a floppy (dd if=boot.img of=/dev/fd0), reboot with the floppy in, and go through the normal Upgrade option (Which will resolve dependencies). Also, with 7.1, they say you can grab the .iso files (seawolf-i386-disc[1|2].iso) and plop them in a directory, then when you reboot with the boot floppies in, when you tell them what directory the ISO imgs are in, they'll mount them and start the upgrade that way.

    3) Download the .iso images from a mirror (seawolf-i386-disc1.iso, seawolf-i386-disc2.iso, seawolf-i386-powertools.iso (optional)), burn them to CD and reboot the machine with disc 1 in the drive (If you can boot from the CD-ROM) or dump boot.img to a floppy disk (see dd above) and boot with that and the CD in.

    4) Buy the box set which comes with all the CDs and boot floppy, follow the detailed instructions in the installation manual.

  • Re:Requiem for a Debian User (Score:3)

    by Enahs ( 1606 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @04:36AM (#266697) Journal
    Linux-Mandrake's development branch (Cooker) is apt-enabled. You can get apt from its contrib/ dir. I've been using cooker for a while, keeping it up to date with apt-get, and I can't complain.
  • Read The Fine Manual!

    http://redhat.com/support/manuals/RHL-7.1-Manual /i nstall-guide/s1-guimode-firewall.html

    http://redhat.com/support/manuals/RHL-7.1-Manual /i nstall-guide/s1-steps-type.html

    http://redhat.com/support/manuals/RHL-7.1-Manual /i nstall-guide/s1-guimode-sel-group.html#S2-GUIMODE- SEL-INDIV-PACK
  • If that's your concern with Debian, and you want to give it another shot, in the past couple months (IIRC) Debian has added a third revision of sorts. Between stable (changed only for security fixes) and unstable (latest greatest - *BOOM*), there is now a "testing" distribution that accepts only new packages from unstable that have proven themselves to work fairly reliably. Just change your apt-sources from 'stable' to 'testing', and it should work on most mirrors.
  • Probably for "Direct from the source" downloads, pay first isn't such a bad idea - maybe $15 for an ISO is a bit much, but if the price stabilized to around $4-5 or so (so that it wouldn't be cheaper to get an actual CD delivered from CheapBytes), I can't see it being that bad. It'll at least help the bandwidth charges for the source of the distro.

    (possibly with some kind of download verification, so those of us with unstable connections (*cough*AT&T Broadband,MA*cough*) wouldn't have to pay 4-5 times to get the download to finish (having the u/p expire after a couple of days might not be unreasonable) )

    Once mirrors go up everywhere, the downloads from those could be cheaper, or free. THis would give people an incentive to use a free, local mirror, rather than clogging the main site. The decrease in people downloading from the main site would mean the mirrors could get the ISOs faster - so that's another advantage.

    Since the distro companies won't be making a huge sum of cash off of the downloads of their distros (most are free downloads now) - they don't lose anything by doing this (and gain some extra cash to offset their now-slightly-lower bandwidth charges).

    If users have broadband (or REALLY want to download multiple 700MB files over their modem) and want/need the updated distro *at* release - they can pay a small sum to do it, otherwise they wait 12-24 hours for their local mirror to sync up, and grab it free. (or pay a comparable sum to get a cd mailed from CheapBytes).

    Willing to wait a couple months for a better package? Wait for the stores to carry the boxed copies (with printed manuals and such) with support/etc... (as is the case now)

    I'd call it a win-win situation for all parties involved.

  • Re:The old too many distros argument again (Score:5)

    by Genom ( 3868 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @08:17AM (#266701)
    I'm thoroughly convinced that the "ease of use" of Windows is a myth. It's simply that people are FAMILIAR with Windows, that things seem "easier" in Windows.

    I've seen a complete computer newbie sit down at a PC running WinME and be completely confused. There's little pictures of things they can't quite recognize (yet) and just about everything moves, or pops up a window, or a menu, or something else. After an hours worth of coaching, they get the basics of how to doubleclick, how to click in a dialog box to type, possibly even how to start up IE/OE and browse the web, send email, etc...but it DOES take some time.

    And they still can't figure out the filesystem. They don't understand the concept of a directory (even if you go with the "folder" analogy) - they don't know how to download a file anywhere but the default location - they don't know how to save an attachment from an email before they run it - half the time they don't know that the things they download ARE files. If it's not on their desktop, it doesn't exist.

    Take this same person, now that they've "learned" Windows, and sit them down in front of a *nix box - OF COURSE they're going to be confused! *nix doesn't work the same way Windows does (and auguably, it *shouldn't*), so all that "knowledge" they have about the way Windows works can't be applied. (Well, not entirely true - moving the mouse around generally does still move the pointer, etc...)

    Now - take a complete computer newbie, and sit them down in front of a *nix box. Again, confusion - the *same* confusion the total newbie had when they sat down in front of the Windows box. After an hour of coaching, they can be at the same level.

    Configurability is another matter - and there's a signifigant hump to get over - that being that hardware manufacturers (who would be the ones who know their hardware the best) seldom provide l*nix drivers for their hardware. They tend to only provide Windows drivers. Why? Because Windows is what *most* people have - and *not* supporting Windows is going to hurt their bottom line. Compared to Windows, the *nix installed base of home/workstation systems is pretty low - so generally not supporting *nix doesn't hurt their bottom line.

    In addition, they tend to be SO protective of their "intellectual property", that even if a third party developer approaches them and says "I know you don't support *nix, but I'd like to write a driver so people who want to buy your hardware and use it with *nix can do so" gets denied, or forced to sign so many NDA agreements that the final product would be incredibly tough to distribute anyway.

    This sets up a catch-22 of sorts. End-users (home/office) want support for the latest and greatest hardware NOW - not 6 months from now when a few brilliant and dedicated people have finally been able to reverse-engineer, legally, the means with which to support that hardware at the most basic level. They don't want to have to do research before they go to the store, in order to buy hardware that is compatible, and well supported - they want to buy the newest, flashiest thing they can find on sale.

    Without support from the manufacturer, you're not going to GET that kind of support with *nix. SO people stick with Windows, and turn the whole situation around, blaming *nix for a lack of hardware support, whin in fact the blame rests on the manufacturers for not providing drivers, and placing roadblocks in the way of third party drivers.

    Add to this the recent legal developments with regard to reverse engineering (IE: DeCSS) and you have a VERY hostile environment for good hardware/consumer tech support on a *nix platform.

    Add to this the *nix community's distaste for binary-only releases of proprietary hardware drivers, and you have a REALLY bad situation.

    For configurability under *nix to match that of Windows, we need manufacturers to support, or at the very least allow third party drivers to be written, with proper documentation of their hardware's features. In order for this to happen, the *nix community has to give a little, and allow for the possibility of proprietary, binary-only driver releases (at least until an open-source alternative can be developed). Both of these are big steps, and both sides quibble about taking small ones, let alone big ones like these. It's going to be a while before the situation gets better here.

    OK - enough rambling - back to work =)

  • I posted an Ask Slashdot article on April 4th wondering how to choose a distro. Still not posted. Whee.

    Since then I've chosen Mandrake 8, since it seems to support the things that I, as a BeOS fan/developer/user, need and expect from an operating system.

  • I found 7.2 to be somewhat buggy (particularly the 'stable' KDE2 it came with), and going to 8.0b2 was actually really nice.

    Next intel linux workstation I build will definitely be MDK8..
    Your Working Boy,
    - Otis (GAIM: OtisWild)
  • Is there yet a distrobution for Alpha that doesn't freeze every X hours? I've tried Debian Woody+Sid, Red Hat 7.0, SuSE 7.0, FreeBSD 4.3rc2 and NetBSD 1.5. All of them freeze after 30 mins to 12 hours of normal desktop usage. If I run a gfx-intensive application (for example aviplay) remote from my PC, it freezes right away! The keyboard stops responding completly (not even the LEDs change when I press capslock) and I have to press the reset button... :(

    I have a DEC PWS433a with 2MB Cache, 128mb RAM and a Matrox Mystique card (My PowerStorm 4d60t is only supported by Tru64 and NT, not XFree86 ;-p ).

    Tru64 runs fine on it, so it's not the hardware that is buggy!

  • Try ftp.sunet.se! It's one of the fastest servers in europe and they mirror just about everything! :)

    ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/mandrak e/iso [sunet.se]
    ...or...
    http://ftp.sunet.se/pub/Linux/distributions/mandra ke/iso [sunet.se]

  • Dios mios!

    [...]
    Keeping /. free of grammatical errors for 3 years.

    Actually, that's a grammatical noun number error. mios is a possesive plural pronoun but Dios is singular noun. And you are missing an inverted exclamation mark at the begining of the sentence.

  • Re:Mandrake reviews (Score:3)

    by IRNI ( 5906 ) <irni@NospaM.irni.net> on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @04:59AM (#266707) Homepage
    I downloaded it from linuxiso.org. Got both isos in 1 night. I will say Mandrake 8.0 is very very very awesome. I have always loved Mandrake as I call it "RedHat-Fixed". Mandrake has sort of gone off on it's own and offered a lot of nifty features. I believe they have the most included software still. The new version 8.0 offers a 2.4.3 kernel, nice installer, graphical boot, X auto login for 1 user when in run level 5, a link on the desktop for two sites, MandrakeCapus and MandrakeExpert which are two community sites for newbies and experts to exchange info in a free manner. Mandrake has outdone itself and I am very excited everytime I boot the new version. :)
    IRNI
  • I agree that all the distributions have their pro/cons and everyone has a preference.. I just believe that when using multiple machines it is easier to install the same distribution (I know that your iBook wouldn't work w/RH but..)

    I have several Intel machines and random other archs.. I like having the majority of machines running my choice of distribution.. makes my life easier when I want to upgrade or whatever..

    Just my worthless .02
  • As others have said, burn a new CD with the current version, boot on it, and click upgrade.

    However, whenever I've done this with Mandrake and Redhat, I've always ended up with a system that is somewhat confused at the end. I've switched everything over to Debian now, which at least has a working upgrade system.

    -- PhoneBoy
  • Why not use.. Windows?

    Because I erased it from my hard disk and there's no compelling reason to put it back.

    Flamebait as I may seem...

    Err, no. More like astroturfing
    --

  • AFAIK Medusa only indexes if you're idle.

    This is the wrong design. It should index if you're idle *and* you have moved/created/deleted files, and it should examine only the directories involved. This should take a fraction of a second.

    Also the hard disk doesn't really goes crazy on my system like you say, much more the same effect as when I execute "find /".

    I agree with the original poster that this kind of disk activity is annoying, especially on a laptop. The same applies to period dbupdate runs under cron. It's about time to remove these warts.
    --

  • To hell with that. If you're not using Red-Hat you must be some airy-fairy, tree-hugging, anti-globalization-raving Debian user. In which case I don't want you polluting my distro.

    Tnx.
  • just curious, but wouldn't 32 megs be enough? I've got a RedHat 6.x system on a different computer, and 32 megs is more than enough for most things on it.
  • The RedHat review didn't really tell me all that much, so I started poking around here:
    http://www.redhat.com/products/software/linux/rhl_ new_features.html [redhat.com]

    And I see:

    The following major system components have been upgraded in Red Hat Linux 7.1: * gcc 2.96-RH
    From the little "RH" there after the version number, can I conclude that RedHat is still shipping an oddball, non-standard gcc compiler?
  • With RedHat 7.1 the level of security you have depends solely on what installation method you choose - workstation, laptop, server, or custom. Workstation and laptop are much more secure than any previous RedHat release - there is no inted.conf or too many extraneous services (you should always check those, though), unless you specify certain packages installed (ftp, finger, etc). That combined with the (apparently - just got the box delivered) easy install/setup of iptables (strict as default - especially with desktop/laptop install) makes this look much more appealing than all previous RedHats. That being said - there's probably something that they seriously fscked up on.
  • Man, I wish I had mod points. This deserves a bump or two.
    I can't count how many times I've thought that...as someone once said, the only real intuitive interface is the nipple. Everything - whether CLI, GUI, voice-controlled, 3D space-based...is learned. And the only reason people find 'doze earlier is that it's what they learned.
  • X-Teq [xteq.com] X-Setup lets you change the colors of BSODs.
    :)
  • I heard that some company ported apt-get to redhat/rpm - but don't know where to get it.

    But generally if you want to upgrade you would get redhat-7.1 on your favorite medium (f.x. a cd) start the install and choose upgrade system, instead of new installation.

    Apt-get really is cool, but you can get a long way with rpmfind.net and tools like red-carpet.

    Hope it helps.

  • I had the exact same probem on my alpha, but it only occured when running in higher than 8bit colors in X.

    Try lowering the colors to 256 - atleast just to see if that's what causing your problems too.

  • Cheapbytes [slashdot.org] has the two download ISOs burned onto CD for about $4. I think it's a lot easier to get a couple of CDs for a few of bucks rather than download two 700MB files only to find the checksums don't match...
  • http://www.tux.org/pub/distributions/mandrake/iso [tux.org] seems useful.

    I got my install ISO image there yesterday, and am getting the ext cd image today as we speak. Decent data rate.

    Of course, now that I've mentioned it, I expect it to be /.ed in no time. . .

  • FYI: I personally run a machine that has been:

    RH 5.0
    RH 5.1
    RH 5.2
    RH 6.0
    RH 6.2
    RH 7.0
    RH 7.1

    I have always selected the "Upgrade" option. The only snag I've ever hit is that you don't always get all the new packages installed, unless you specify them explicitly.

    One thing I noticed this time though: I didn't get all the same install options by upgrading to 7.1, that I would have gotten by installing a clean system; for example, I didn't get a chance to configure a security level. I guess they assume that already-installed systems are already configured and should not be messed with, which is probably a pretty good assumption.

    -TomK
  • I can understand disabling ftpd, telnetd and fingerd - they're known security hazards, and I'm not sure, but I think that RedHat's configurable security will let you enable them or disable them at will at this point. ssh and its family of tools accomplish the same thing, but are far more secure AFAIK. I haven't played with 7.1 yet, so I can't say anything about building the kernel. I'll just have to try it myself.
  • OUCH! How can you download ISO images at 26.4? That'd take all month. Go buy a set of CDs from CheapBytes for ~ $10. Never underestimate the bandwidth of a FedEx shipment of CDs.

  • (I know you could compile yourself -- but the first time you do "make install" -- you have just blown away the whole advantage of any packaging database...)

    In most cases, you can keep your custom built code separate from your packaged code by installing to /usr/local or /opt instead of /usr. OTOH, I see problems when configuration files in /etc or other important places need to be changed, but in most cases, packagers should still work.

  • I don't see any way of putting together a Linux system from scratch without some sort of bootstrap. You could always use another Linux box to compile your binaries before moving them to your scratch system.

    Linux (and every other OS that I know of) requires some sort of external support in order to put together a distribution from scratch - heck, Linus built the first Linux kernels on a Minix system, before gcc was ported.

  • I've been using RH 7.1 on my workstation for several days now. I haven't delved deeply into it, but it seems decent so far. Paired with Ximian Gnome 1.4, it's a very nice desktop. I'll have to explore it a little further before I decide whether or not to put it on my server, but for now, the prospects are looking good. A definite improvement over 7.0.
  • For those of you not familiar with the installation of linux on a Sony 505 series notebook, be advised that you have to tell the install program where the CDROM is, as it's not in the usual place. Per several locations on the web, the command is usually given by: linux ide2=0x180,0x386 and that gets you rolling. Most of the issues I have pertain to this peculiarity and any help would be appreciated.

    Mandrake 8.0: Would not install. From what I can tell, it has something to do with PCMCIA initialization, which I cannot find a way to bypass during install. Using the Text Expert mode, I see that the kernel panics and the whole system locks up. From the limited research I've done, this is basically because the kernel tries to configure the PCMCIA, whereas the Sony BIOS has already done so, causing some major, so far unsolvable, hiccups.

    Progeny 1.0: A somewhat different problem than above, progeny does a windows-esque "reboot" to continue installation. However, upon reboot, the installer does not "remember" where the CDROM is, resulting in an infinite "Please insert CDROM disk 2" type message. I could not find a way to switch to another console and could not pass the proper location of the CDROM to the install program. I was looking forward to an easy to install debian system.. I might try Stormix or just plain jane Debian.

    Redhat 7.0: There were some errors in the install, seemingly related to PCMCIA devices, but the install program chugged right through them and I now have a functioning Linux distribution running on my beautiful Sony Vaio 505FX. I'm planning a clean reinstall to get rid of some fluff, but in the meantime Windowmaker seems a nice enough "GUI" for the small screensize, when I'm not just "toying" in console mode. I may just keep running in console mode and screw the GUI altogether. So far, most everything is working fine. I've yet to try network configuration, but I should tackle that soon enough.. :)

    So, 2 lose by default (installation *too* easy, maybe?), the other wins simply by virtue that it installs a basic system, which is what I want.. :) Too bad, though, I was really really looking forward to trying Progeny (I've been very impressed with Debian on my friend's system) and wanted to make sure I could upgrade to 2.4 kernel easily.. Mandrake held promise with it's inclusion of ReiserFS and 2.4 kernel by default.. Redhat's strength is that every major application I want to install seems built with it in mind (Oracle and the like..), so less tinkering more working, I suppose.

    Anyway, my off-topic .02.
  • nifty, an off-topic how to post and I got some *real* answers. Thanks a bunch! I'm off to install Mandrake 8.0 tomorrow after I get off from work. the expert noauto is *exactly* what I was looking for. Also, the FX, being an older model, has not the memory stick nor built in ethernet (although I do have a PCMCIA ethernet adapter). The only reason I haven't tried a network install is that I'd have to unplug something from my hub and haven't gotten around to doing that.. :P I'll work on that next week..

    Thanks again!
  • Libranet seems to be following the same path as Mandrake, which began as a better RedHat than RedHat and then found its own niche. Libranet is doing the better Debian than Debian thing. Let's all hope that Libranet continues to follow in Mandrakes footsteps and produces all sorts of useful software for the community.

    The great thing about Linux is that a anyone can start a new project/distribution that competes and builds on the old, and everyone eventually benefits. For instance, I'm looking for time to do a better Mandrake than Mandrake distro. Mandrake has been pushing the 'ease of installation' envelope. I'd like to push it even further with a distro called 'Tutor Linux', that will be guaranteed to take a week to install. Each step of the installation would be accompanied by indepth analysis and discussion of why things are being done the way they are being done. Upon completion, the end user would have a complete understand of how and why the system works the way it does. Instead of hiding the difficulties of installation behind a graphical interface that mask the details, the aim of my distro will be to expose and explain the details so the user understands them, and is therefore no longer intimidated by them.

    Expect to see my distro in stores, RSN!! 8*)

  • Hey I thought i'd give a quick review of both since I ended up installing them both on my laptop over the last week or so. The machine is a dell 5000e w/ 16 mb ati 128 vid card. The machine started off as a dual boot rh7.0 win2k machine, where 7.0 was more or less a stock up2dated run. The upgrade detected my video card fine but for some reason totally screwed up my pcmcia ports. I ended up going down to the 2.2 kernel which allowed my wireless card to work (but not the cardbus xircom for some reason) and backing things up. Taking the opportunity to wipe win2k :), i reinstalled 8.0 from scratch, everything installed perfectly including the pcmcia card (So obviously there were some configuration issues w/ old pcmcia-cs files lying around vs the kernel subsystem). However the aironet card on insertion gave all sorts of dire warnings and on ejection gave a kernel panic. (I chaulked this one off as hunting around on google i noticed that ben's drivers were to be incorporated like a month ago so maybe it missed the rh boat..?) The vaguely annoying glitch was trying to import windows fonts would cause konqueror to go into some really nasty crashes at sites like nytimes. (It would take my system down.. didn't we learn our lesson about web browsers being hooked into important things (like your entire window manager!) from err someone else? (I know its vaguely different but the practical upshot is the same..)) Right, so a week later mandrake 8.0 came out and since i had a pretty clean system I thought i'd take the opportunity to give it a whirl.. I installed reiserfs (apparantly those corruption bugs have been removed somewhere btwn 2.4.1->2.4.2 (x fingers)) , it did *not* detect my videocard/screen (luckily i had my old XF86Config-4 files lying around since the old rh7.0 actually didn't do this either so I was expecting an issue here). I have to say the mandrake packaging w/ apps the organized menu system is orders of magnitude better than anything I have ever seen (i.e. the gnome/kde/redhat menus are seperate w/ rh) . W/ regards to pcmcia I had no problems w/ either of my cards (I assume this is due to a later kernel). Some niggling issues are the windows font importer obviously doesn't work (but you can do it manually). They sometimes seem to forget to do things like link libXm.so.4 to libXm.. but the apps.. wow I didn't know half this shit existed actually.. Mandrake really is an OS that you can legitimately install for your parents and have maybe a 60% chance of them actually using it.. Issues that are probably not Mandrake issues.. just playing w/ gnome 1.4 setup I managed to get the control thingy to segfault??!? The antialiasing fonts of kde2.1.1 are *great* for web browsing however setting them will totally screw up your fixed fonts (i.e. your terminal) :: i basically now use gnome terminals and kde screen to get around this... but other than that Mandrake is one amazing piece of software.. -avi
  • I use MDK and have done so since 6x but 8 has caused me some angnst. It loses interrupts. I keep getting errors HDC lost interrupt, and it dies after spewing more about lost interupts. This happens periodically after a new install, sometimes rigt away then at other times after a few hours.

    This has not happened before.

    Steel

  • Red Hat 7.1 (Score:3)

    by ajs ( 35943 ) <{ajs} {at} {ajs.com}> on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @06:51AM (#266733) Homepage Journal
    Just grabbed Red Hat 7.1 + Ximian 1.4.

    Wow. I have to say, I have never seen a cooler desktop. Plus, it runs bind9, has all of the crypto stuff that was added back in Red Hat 7.0 and a ton of other stuff that makes this the way to go for anyone who wants to get their feet wet with Linux or the long-time hacker.

    Not to belittle everything else. Mandrake, Debian, etc are all good distributions and I applaud their efforts and those who use them, but Red Hat has been focusing right where I want a distribution to focus: latest and greatest tempered by usability and stability. I've always found that, eg, Debian does not make this trade-off where I want. Unstable is just a little too unstable and stable is just a little bit too old. I want a middle-ground, and Red Hat seems to walk that tightrope well, making the occasional gaff, but fixing them fairly fast with their updates.

  • I didn't see a heck of a lot about Libranet that I don't already get with Debian unstable ... OK, maybe the newer packages are tested more for stability and interoperability, but I bet Debian has more developers working on Debian than Libranet does.

  • "Also we think it unfair that only those users with fast connections can download free CD images. "

    Right... so apparently they seem to think that these fast connections are free or something ? Downloading "free" CD images is just an extra you get for paying a lot of money for a fast connection.

    "Regarding charging for a download and whether this is in conformity with the GNU General Public License, it is. We have consulted with Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation and have been assured that what we are doing is legitimate.
    Richard put it this way:
    "Free software is about freedom, not price. Free software means that users have certain freedoms, such as the freedom to redistribute and change the software. To charge for a copy is legitimate; this is just as true for downloading as for a CD-ROM." ""

    Yadda yadda... IMHO it's also perfectly legal to pay 15$, download the distro and redistribute it for free.

    And BTW, i suppose Libranet is based in the USA ? Americans keep forgetting that it's harder to pay for things like this when you're in Europe or something... /me also thinks that there's no chance in hell of the CD's being available in shops in this backward part of the world

    Anyway, whatever.

    uXs

  • I hope no one will call this a review of a distribution (the RH one I mean).


    "I recommend that all new server installations use this distribution, and SMP servers upgrade to it to maximize the servers' capabilities. "

    You can't be expecting any sysadmin or any user for that matter to base a decision to buy this on such a superficial advertisement?

  • Install the Windows TTF fonts if you have them. With them Konqueror looks fine. Also, take a look at the Font Deuglification mini HOWTO at http://www.linuxdoc.org/HOWTO/mini/FDU/index.html [linuxdoc.org].
  • - Krischi
  • LM8 is great. The install was flawless and I even did an (gasp) upgrade. The browser actually works on this release and Gnome looks really impressive. It is absolutely shot in the ass with applications which is why I like Mandrake so much.

    It takes forever to boot up though. This is not a distro for your spare 32 meg machine. This baby needs some room. Time for a CPU upgrade.
  • I finally managed to get the .iso's downloaded on Saturday. Overall, I'd say that it's pretty good. It runs like a charm on my Athlon machine and even does a passable job running on a Pentium 120 machine that belongs to the guy in the cube next to me. I really like having the 2.4 kernel installed and synced up well with Hard Drake.

    I do have a couple of beefs about it though. For some reason I can't su to root when logged into my user account. I assume this is some security setting, but I haven't found out how to disable it yet. Anyone know? Also, something is really fucked up with the fonts in Konqueror. They are just terrible, the letters are crooked and of varying sizes, pretty much makes every page look like it was written in 1337 5p34k. Anyone else notice this or know how to fix it?

  • Thanks for the tip there. That cleared all my font problems right up.
  • If you are afraid to make a mistake, hire a consultant to do it for you.
  • I'm pretty pleased with my XL 300Alpha Slackware box. [slackware.com] Matrox Graphics, Inc. MGA 2064W [Millennium], Symbios Logic Inc. (formerly NCR) 53c810, Lite-On Communications Inc LNE100TX, 196MBytes RAM, Alcor, running with MILO.

    The SRM install wasn't supported, when I built it, but, with a little bit of work, was able to build my own boot disk to get it to run. I don't use it much for games, but, it's a rock-solid file/database server.

    Linux rocks!!! www.dedserius.com [dedserius.com]
  • xinetd is an inetd replacement. It's a little more to learn, but instead of a single file, each service is now its own config file. This makes it act much like SysV init, in fact, the config files are in /etc/xinet.d/
    each service which is listed in /etc/xinet.d/ can now be set disable=yes or disable=no (how you turn on or off an xinetd service) manually or through {ntsysv | ckconfig | rl editor}. Additionally, it is much more secure than inetd (though I don't know how it compares to tcp wrappers) and more configurable (ex: "run telnet, but only on the internal interface").
    R'ing TFM is always a Good Idea :)
    {apropos | man -k} is your friend

    -Mith
    --
  • Console: ckconfig
    ncurses: ntsysv
    GUI: Run Level Editor

    Those are the Right Ways to do it. Here's why:


    $ head /etc/rc.d/init.d/network
    #
    # chkconfig: 2345 10 90
    #

    $ head /etc/rc.d/init.d/sendmail
    #
    # chkconfig: 2345 80 30
    #


    Change S10network to K10network and you've just broken sendmail, which should shut down BEFORE network, but now shuts down after it. In the case where you're disabling something, it won't matter much, but that doesn't make it the right way to do it.

    should we all bow down to l33tness?
    I'm and MCSE
    I didn't say you should bow down to leetness, but you should at least learn the difference between "an" and "and".

    Luckily, the poster to whom I replied appreciated my advice. Ironic that you call me a troll though (even though I've feed one with this reply).
    --
  • ... and go through rc3.d ...
    *cough* /usr/sbin/ntsysv *cough*

    Not that I don't agree with you, just that manually playing around in /etc/rc*.d/ isn't the Right Way to do it. If you don't like ntsysv, at least use ckconfig. For the graphical types, use the runlevel editor in control-panel.
    --

  • I'm a karma whore! (Score:3)

    by duplicate-nickname ( 87112 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @04:37AM (#266747) Homepage
    The link to the Duke of URL review is http://www.thedukeofurl.org/reviews/misc/libranet1 90/printable.shtml [thedukeofurl.org]

    ÕÕ

  • Just re-built my thinkpad - so I put Mandrake 8.0 on it. What else is DSL for if not linuxisos.org? ;-)

    After 2 days of grief with no mouse support working (you do not want to run their graphical installer without a mouse)... I talked the thinkpad into enabling the serial port so I can at least use a serial mouse. Doubtless I'll get the trackpoint on the go with a little work.

    I must say I'm impressed with it. It looks good, and it auto-detected my PCMCIA network card that is very new and so not supposed to work under anything Microsoft didn't write (DFE-680TXD; it's using a tulip chipset if you're interested)

    Mind you, it's I guess a case that each new major revison of a distro has all the latest toys and that's a big part of the "wow" factor.

  • > you will relize that gnome 1.4 was released after mandrake 8

    Not so:

    Gnome 1.4 released April 3rd [gnome.org]

    Mandrake 8.0 released April 19th [linux-mandrake.com]

  • I mean, doesn't have IPChain.
  • Right continent, better country.
  • Just to clarify your statements, in case the word "oldest" is misinterpreted.

    Slackare Linux is one of the distros that has been around for the longest time but is updated often so it is now as 'modern' as the Debians and Redhats.
  • I'd like to see a distro that keeps as little trace as possible of legacy stuffs.

    e.g. One that uses Kernel 2.4 all the way, that doesn't have IPTables and the old /dev installed by default, that replaces LILO with GRUB completely, and installs XFree 2.4.x exclusively.

    I like new versions of softwares. I hate old versions lying around.

    Any recommendation?

    I like Gentoo. If it uses apt-get or epkg I'd have chosen it in a heartbeat. Too bad.
  • I agree. I don't know any sysadmins that are married to one single Linux distro, or even one flavor of Un*x for that matter. We run HP-UX for our databases, RedHat for some DNS, and I've recently converted some RS/9000 AIX boxes to SuSE 7.1. I usually choose a distro just by how easy I want the install to go. If I need something simple like a DNS server, I'll choose RedHat because you can just throw it in, edit a few files and go. But if I need something like a webserver or DB server, when I want to dig in and customize everything, I'll take Debian or Slackware, just because nothing is done for you with these. The only way you know it's done right is when you do it yourself.
  • We installed Red Hat 7.1 on a system which previously had 6.2 with a custom kernel, because this system has 2 Sangoma WanPipe cards and one Cyclades PC300 card.

    The Cyclades patch applied without problems (it being an additive patch rather than one with modifications). However the Sangoma patch failed to apply and the kernel refused to compile.

    We removed the patched kernel, installed a fresh kernel source from the RPMs, and patched *only* for the Cyclades card. The kernel source already had drivers for the Sangoma card so we tried to compile those instead.

    Imagine our surprise when this freshly installed kernel source also refused to compile. It had errors all over the place. I assumed the Red Hat kernel had some patches so we got our SRPM to recover the "pristine source" kernel that was there. Still i was worried that this kernel didn't even compile.

    After extracting all the files from the source RPM, I was baffled when I realized the Red Hat kernel had over 200 patches applied to it! no wonder the Sangoma patch barfed, as this beast could hardly be considered a 2.4.2 kernel anymore.

    Finally we did extract the sources from the source RPM (despite all the mess that this operation was, it's nice to see that the RPM concept of "pristine source plus patches" really saved the day). Both the Sangoma and Cyclades patches applied without a hitch and 25 minutes later we had our system back up and running the way it was supposed to be.

    One last rant, it seems that for some reason the Sangoma drivers which have been included in the kernel for quite some time never work fine. We always have to patch from the Sangoma releases. I wonder why haven't the updated drivers made it into the kernel. hrmm.

  • So you probably have some broken BIOS that tells the kernel it has only 32 MB RAM.

    What's the bug report number for this? Oh, there is none.

    Users who complain, but don't report bugs to us continue to not impress me.
  • What's the error message you get when building the kernel? Did you make mrproper first (read the manual)? What's the bug report number [redhat.com] of this problem? We can't fix problems we aren't aware of. (And compiling the kernel definitely works for me).

    The services being turned off is intentional for security reasons (read the manual).
    Run ntsysv, or "chkconfig ftpd on", "chkconfig telnet on", ...

    Also, make sure the firewall settings aren't preventing accesses to the services you want to run (read the manual).
  • I think that one of the reasons Linux continues to march onward so relentlessly despite the best efforts of commercial competitors is the creation of a competitive environment.

    Don't like your distro? Write a new one. Is it a piece of crap? It will go away. Is it worthwhile? Well, it still might go away. But over time, a process similar to natural selection allows the best software to rise to the top.

    The downside of all this prolific spread is that standards become rare. This is why the Linux Standard Base is such an important idea.

  • I think the URL for the review is mangled... The real one is here:

    http://www.thedukeofurl.org/reviews/misc/libranet1 90/printable.shtml [thedukeofurl.org]

    --8<--

  • I tried the beta version of Mandrake 8 and I loved them, they got all my hardware working perfectly. Then I downloaded the release version of Mandrake 8.0 and I'm having some interesting hardware problems. USB refuses to work after getting through about 5 steps of the install which takes out my mouse. I'v had erors partitioning a hardrive on a slightly older system too. The beta3 seemed to work almost flawlesly, but for some reason the release seems to have added a lot more bugs.
    =\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\=\= \=\=\=\
  • I've asked about and can I get a sensible answer about what is the best desktop-come-development-come-nice-windows-style-t hing-but-running-linux distro for me?

    A linux distro is more like a toolbox than like finished a product: they are for people that need or like to tweak with things, that are unsatisfied with standard commercial offer.Your needs can be satisfied by any of the mahjor distros, but not without a little work from you.
    If you like so much windows, just keep using it. Both Perl and GCC have been ported to it, so you have the tool you need.

  • Hmmm, I wonder how a nipple-based interface to your computer would work. Any suggestions or ideas?
  • I also have a sony 505, z505rx and z505ls to be precise.. So my .02 here..

    -Mandrake 7.2 and 8.0 install beautifully with a network installation. Just copy the cds to a directory in a different machine and use the USB floppy with the network image. You can also install from the cdrom if you use the pcmcia floppy.. I think you have to do F2 and give the magic line expert ide2=0x180,0x386. That seem to work on my but I didn't do a full install that way.

    -Progeny 1.0: I had the same prob as you. I still had to follow on them.

    -Redhat 7.1: flawless install with the magic line again. But then.. it's so ugly and it has lacks apps. I feel that I can't go back to it after MDK8.

    Mayly

  • Sounds cool... just what I've been looking for, but how do I go about getting it done?

    I just downloaded and burned the RH7.1 ISOs. I want to get Ximian, but the only option(s) I see on their web pages involve having a connection to the Internet under Linux (I can only use Windows98 to access the Internet... don't ask; long story). Is there any way to just download it all as an ISO, burn a CD, and install from there? I haven't been able to find anything like that.

    If anybody knows of anything like that, please let me know!

  • Thanks! :)

  • Not that I'm certain here, but "Guhnoo" is not a word, whereas "Gnu" IS a word and is, if logic was used in the generation of the GNU acronym, the way that GNU should expand: Gnu's not Unix, which both is and is NOT an acronym.

    FYI, a gnu is a large water-buffalo look-alike.
  • As others have said, its still a GPL product, so why is no one (even the sites that specialize in selling (cheapbytes for example)) offering the current libranet iso for download?
  • I like the idea of explaining everything to the user, instead of hiding the complexity.

    There should be nontrivial questions after each step performed, so that the next step only will be started if the user has sufficient knowledge about the subject. And to make things harder, there should be a large enough pool of questions, so that after a wrong answer, you would get a different question :-)

    And when the install is finally finished, it should be possiply to print out a fine diploma, whith the users name, the systems specifications, and the time it took to complete the install

  • This section features 3 predefined security preferences to choose from (high, medium, low)

    Well, Mandrake still has them beat in this department, by offering security levels ranging from "Paranoid" to "Welcome to Crackers". ;-)

    One thing I wish all distros would do better is explain what each setting will really do. What packages, etc. does workstation have that server doesn't? What changes at each security level? What will I get to see in "expert install" that I won't with the others?
    It's frustrating when the features that get installed appear to be picked randomly (and hand-tweaking the install involves looking through thousands of packages...)

    There's a fine line between making installation easy and dumbing it down, and some of the install options I've seen are dumbed down to the point where the user cannot make any sort of rational choice based on the information given.

  • Am I alone?

    Most definitely not.
    I'm pretty much in the same situation (UK, dialup, no time to be arsing around for 3 days just to get X up and running). I used Redhat for a while and just got sick of the time it took to get a usable desktop system - that should happen upon installation, my time should be spent configuring things more specific to my own setup and writing software rather than endlessly trying to make someone elses software work. Then I tried Mandrake 7.1 (free with magazine) and it worked well: X configured itself, and I had everything up in no time. I occasionally upgrade vital apps but on the whole just wait for the next Mandrake release and upgrade the whole OS. I actually get some work done now instead of spending 90% of my time mucking around with Linux itself.

  • The only way you know it's done right is when you do it yourself.

    ????

    Funny, for me it usually works out the other way around.

  • desktop-come-development-come-nice

    Hey, what's this, some kind of porno?? I think you mean "desktop-cum-development..."
  • never mind, i am a moron, i found the link [libranet.com]. but i still hate that they want to charge me $15 to download. from the libranet download page:
    GNU/Linux distribution companies spend large amounts of time and money in putting together their distributions. Sure there are volunteer organizations putting together distributions and of course anyone can download the pieces and assemble one themselves. For the vast majority of computer users this is not a viable option. The amount of expertise needed to successfully install and run these is beyond their resources. Less than 25% of computer users have fast enough internet connections to make downloading a large CD image possible. We at Libranet produce and support what is perhaps the best GNU/linux distribution ever, and we spend long hours and much effort in doing so. Also we think it unfair that only those users with fast connections can download free CD images. We provide a free download of our previous release, which is still a first class product. Regarding charging for a download and whether this is in conformity with the GNU General Public License, it is. We have consulted with Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation and have been assured that what we are doing is legitimate. Richard put it this way: "Free software is about freedom, not price. Free software means that users have certain freedoms, such as the freedom to redistribute and change the software. To charge for a copy is legitimate; this is just as true for downloading as for a CD-ROM." We think this policy levels the playing field for all, and rewards us for our work. We hope you will try libranet and we wish you happy computing. -- The libranet team

  • Just installed Libranet last night (Score:3)

    by Jagasian ( 129329 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @02:29PM (#266783)
    Strange how Slashdot has an article about distros, just after I got done playing with them last night. For a while now, I have been stuck with Windows. Microsoft can really get you hooked in, even when you are an individual user.

    Well, as the story goes, I vowed a month ago to completely switch %100 to Linux once Mandrake 8.0 was released. I had been using Mandrake 7.x for a while, and it was pretty damn spiffy... but the versions of KDE 2 were kind of unstable among other things. With the release of Mandrake 8.0, I was really excited about an easy transition to a stable user-friendly Linux desktop. I downloaded the ISO and ran through the install. Everything was brain-dead-easy until I finished installing the application packages and went for the initial reboot. The installer kept giving me a no hdlists error, and so I tried expert install and many other options. Things got frustrating, so I decided to try something else.

    Libranet was that something else. Any open-minded techie will be able to see the superiority of a Debian based distro, with regards to system updates etc, using apt-get. However, I also have two eyes which can see the superiority of KDE 2.1 to anything Gnome has the offer. I never got involved in any emotional or religious license arguements are crap like that. I just simply wanted the best Linux setup possible, and I didn't want to have to spend allot of time/effort/money to get it.

    Libranet 1.9.0 has all the features I want, with a cutting edge journeling filesystem, the latest great kernel, KDE 2.1, etc... It is easy Debian based!

    So the install. You want to know about the install? Well, lets just say that it ain't as easy as Mandrake, when Mandrake dosen't shit itself on you. When Mandrake's installer works, a 3 year old could install it. But Mandrake wasn't working for me at all, so maybe Libranet's more involved install actually helped.

    The biggest problem with Libranet's installer was its reliance on floppies. Excuse my foul language, but it ain't fscking 1997 anymore guys. Most workstations don't use floppies anymore, using CD-RW instead. CD-RW is more dependable and its cheaper than floppies. Libranet's install requires you to make floppies if you are installing Libranet on SCSI harddrives. So, yes, the biggest and most difficult part of the entire install for me was trying to dig up an old floppy drive that I had stashed away at the bottom of a closet full of boxes of knick-nacks. After hooking it up and making the boot floppies, I try to boot my soon-to-be Linux box on them. Yup, the disks were bad, so I was back to trying to rawrite more boot disks until I found some old floppies that didn't have bad sectors all over them.

    Floppies floppies floppies! After the floppy fiasco, the rest of the install was a piece of cake. And I mean easy easy easy! The installer didn't have a theme manager like Mandrake's, but the installer was doing one thing that Mandrake's installer wasn't doing for me yesterday: it was working!

    Libranet's installer is super easy to use. You need to know a few obvious things to properly move through the installer for Libranet:
    • Time zone you live in
    • Type of mouse you have
    • How you want to partition your harddrives (this is the most sophisticated part, but the install instructions walk you through a basic partition install, which any literate 5 year old could follow)
    • Type of video card you use
    • Type of sound card that you use


    Again, just incase you guys don't get the point of how easy the install is... floppies can be a bitch and partitioning the drives requires actual though, but even the partitioning is as straight forward as cutting a birthday cake or a pizza, which most people have done at least once in their life.

    What is Libranet actually like? Well, I could better answer this question a month from now, after using it everyday, but from what I have seen so far, Libranet seems rock solid stable and loaded with cool (and useful) apps. Of course, I was one of the cursed Northpoint customers that got his line cut, so I suck down the net through a 28.8 dialup now, but apt-get is just way too cool! With it, I probably won't download a new distro for another 2 years! If you have a dedicated net connection, like a cable modem or a DSL line... apt-get would be the Holy Grail of Linux for you. Installing and updating software is easier on a Debian Linux than on any Mac OS or Windows OS!
    IT JUST WORKS!

    Why more people don't use a Debian based distro is weird to me. I suggest Libranet 1.9.0 if you want to experiment with a Debian based distro, or if you simply want a better rock solid Linux setup. In my opinion, Debian should be THE core standard for all distros.

    By the way, I am posting this from Konqueror, which after several hours of frantic use, hasn't crashed once. Konqueror is THE Internet Explorer killer.
  • AFAIK Medusa only indexes if you're idle. Also the hard disk doesn't really goes crazy on my system like you say, much more the same effect as when I execute "find /".

    How long has it been since you tried Medusa?

  • This is the wrong design. It should index if you're idle *and* you have moved/created/deleted files, and it should examine only the directories involved. This should take a fraction of a second.
    I do believe they plan to do this eventually but I don't think it's as simple as you claim. You see, Medusa also indexes contents and I would think that it's not desirable to have Medusa index a 2000 pages long book every time you save it.

    What it should do is schedule the book to be indexed and then do so when the computer is idle, also when someone searches for something should the indexer kick in.

    Give it enough time. I'm sure the Medusa people have thought of this.

  • Yes, but Libranet charges $15 to download! I have never seen this done with a linux distro. I doubt they will catch on just because they are trying this scheme.
  • Why doesn't one person just pay $15, download it, then redistribute the ISO images on their own server? Surely that is legal, right? I mean if libranet wants to charge for every copy made that makes them the same as the record companies.
  • Different models alright... The bug is on PCs whose keyboards are not on the PS/2 "bussing" the mouse (or trackpoint) uses. The kernel checks the keyboard, and if its bussed 5-pin or USB, the ps/@ port '/dev/seraux' is locked out as if inexistant. This adversly effects all ThinkPad models T20/T21/A20, also some Compaqs and similar models.

    There is some discussion on MandrakeForum [mandrakeforum.com], and somewhere else I read a response that said the person simply recompiled the kernel and it worked. Sadly, the dependencies on the Kernel-source RPM are also wanting... they need a ncurses-devel RPM that is unavailable on the CDs and the FTP sites.

  • Using RH7.1: BEWARE Mandrake 8.0 (Score:3)

    by twisty ( 179219 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @10:06AM (#266805) Homepage Journal
    I spent the weekend downloading both Redhat 7.1 and Mandrake 8.0 for our Divisional Headquarters... That's six CDs in all. It was my hope to use Mandrake as the distribution of choice for my ThinkPad, while using RedHat for the servers, since Lotus Domino is supported when run on RedHat.

    Sadly, there is a definite bug in the Mandrake 8.0 release that is just getting recognized: The kernel was compiled with the ps/2 mouse support disabled in many configurations, including ThinkPads. Apparently, they thought that 'no ps/2 keyboard' (i.e. USB keyboard) was thought to mean 'no ps/2 mouse' as well. My ThinkPad could not access the trackpoint device (the keyboard mouse-pointer) in any way... on a kernel level. If you replace kernel-2.4.3-20mdk with kernel-linus2.4-2.4.3-2mdk, you get the ps/2 port back, but you must dig out compatible pcmcia modules for the earlier kernel. (I'm presently switching kernels between a mouseless session and a networkless session.)

    It is Wednesday today, and I've been watching the cooker/cooker-fire for a new kernel, but to no avail. IMHO, Redhat got the 7.1 release out a timely way, panicking Mandrake into a premature release.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm a featuritis junkie who loves Mandrake otherwise. I just wish this user-friendly distribution ideal for notebook systems were actually ready for this release.

  • Does Ximian Gnome use Medusa? I hate Medusa because I'll be sitting at my PC doing something casual (pr0n, typing, listening to music) and suddenly the harddrive starts spinning like there's no tommorrow! I try to kill the processes, but they keep starting back up. Finally, I uninstalled Nautilus and all of the Medusa garbage.

    Medusa is only a file finding utility! Why does it need it's own daemon and to spin my harddrive every half hour? Dios mios!

    This is annoying on the same scale that the 'Windows Explorer crashes take down my entire system' is annoying.

    Besides Medusa, Nautilus and Ximian Gnome are pretty good.

  • I had just installed the current version of Nautilus about 3 weeks ago. Yeah, I hate the find cron job that Mandrake Linux installs on my Iopener. That was one of the first things to go.

  • Re:The old too many distros argument again (Score:4)

    by onion2k ( 203094 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @06:34AM (#266816) Homepage
    You want something as easy to use as Windows.

    You want something thats easy to setup and configure as Windows.

    You want a decent desktop OS.

    You want to do C and Perl.

    Why not use.. Windows?

    Flamebait as I may seem, theres nothing *wrong* with Windows as a desktop OS. It doesn't feature the same level of security as *nix, nor does it have the zero cost outlay advantage, but it does work, its simple to use, and there are squillions of apps and games and stuff for it. Its a case of using the right tool for the job. Windows might just be the right tool.

  • The old too many distros argument again (Score:5)

    by Mr_Silver ( 213637 ) on Wednesday April 25, 2001 @06:01AM (#266819)
    I've noticed that anyone who ever says there are too many Linux distros gets shot down in flames generally with the argument that choice is good.

    I currently run Redhat 7 and after loosing some stuff on it that I liked (such as enlightenment) and general flaws and badly built stuff (missing files etc.etc) I figured I'd move to something else.

    I use it mainly as a desktop OS, would like everything I possibly need already configured and if possible running, reasonably secure and dare I say it?, as close to being as friendly as Windows as possible. Ie. I don't have to piss about with config options, it does it for me and i can get on with doing fun stuff.

    I use my machine for web development and socket programming (so C and perl really). I don't have a perminant connection, just a dial up which I hardly use (since the phone is miles away from the PC and we in the UK still have to pay for isp calls) so cron jobbing apt-get-whatnot isn't really useful.

    I've asked about and can I get a sensible answer about what is the best desktop-come-development-come-nice-windows-style-t hing-but-running-linux distro for me? Nope, everyone comes up with totally different distros for a variety of reasons! At the end of the day its confusing me and whilst I'm by no means a linux expert, I'm not a total dunce.

    I'm totally lost. Do I upgrade or not? I'm no closer to picking a distro than I was when i first started. Its times like this when I really start to wonder if maybe it would be better to have a few really good distros rather than lots that seem to do some bits well and some not.

    I just know I'm going to get shot down in flames and marked as "Troll" but i'm not. I'm totally and completely lost in the maze of distributions and seem to be unable to get a sensible consistent answer from anyone.

    Am I alone?

    --

  • I had a little bit of trouble with my Mandrake 8 installed that would have repelled a first-time user - certianly not "windows easy" quite yet. First off, it didn't install the accelerated nvidia drivers (or say that they existed), so I had to go download them and follow Nvidia's instructions. I think they do include a commercial CD with their boxed release with closed drivers, commercial office apps (star, applix), and more non-free stuff. It also didn't have my monitor listed, so I had to go search for the monitor definitions on Google and manually edit the xf86 config file. Now it's up, but it would be a little confusing to a first time user to click tuxracer and have nothing happen :) - at the least they should have an error message pop up when a program doesn't start. The shear amount of configuration tools would also be fairly daunting. It took me awhile to find the right program to install new packages...
  • I guess it's time for a distro war again.. Oh well.. Just use the distro that's best suited for YOUR needs... not just because someone is yelling its so good..
  • I use several distros. My Webserver runs Progeny Debian. My workstation runs Mandrake, and my iBook runs SuSE 7.1 and they all work fine. They are all different to a certain degree and I dont really have a preferance. I have not had any problems with incompatabilites or anything. I like Debians apt-get but a lot of stuff out there is RPM based which works just as good. I say try em all, I mean they are FREE! Find one or three you like and use those. My DNS servers run OpenBSD but that doesnt count here.

    Arathres


    I love my iBook. I use it to run Linux!
  • I am truly amazed! Congratulations Nick Mitchell on not trolling /. !

    On the topic of distro's, I've used RH, Slack, Mandrake, Debian, SuSe, etc. I personally like them all... preferred at this point is probably RH since it is what I first installed, and learned mostly for my first year running/admin'ing linux.

    If RH has (finally) beefed up security, I for one will be forever greatful... gets really annoying having to edit inetd.conf, and go through rc3.d and disable practically EVERYTHING every time I install. I learned from the beginning, and I think this is (read in: should be) industry standard, that you should disable everything by default, and turn services on as necessary, after being sure to patch and update all dependant services.

    The article didn't go in depth as to their security enhancement feature, aside from it being configurable during the install... Hopefully what I call secure is what they do too... :)
  • I can't wait for some of the Linux distros to start to fail. Yes, competition is a good thing, but the mainstream public doesn't view this as competition, they view it as fragmentation. Several of my clients have told me point blank that they refuse to even look at Linux because they feel the environment is too unstable for a long term commitment. Mind you, they didn't say the product was unstable, but rather the environment. That's the part of the equation that tends to get glossed over by the open source techy types, they tend to focus on the technical merits and they can't understand the need to align towards common goals and reduce any collaborative filtering which quite frankly ends up confusing John. Q. Consumer.

    I will continue to recommend Linux as a low TOC and high ROI solution but it's an uphill battle. It's a shame that the "powers that be" won't listen when anyone mentions this line of thinking but I can tell you first hand that out in the real world it's the truth.

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