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SuSE Businesses

SuSE 6.3 Released Today 89

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the its-pronounced-sue-zuh dept.
Tap noted that SuSE.com notes that 6.3 of the distribution should be released sometime today. Features include NEW X-windows installation, KDE 1.1.2, Star Office 5.1a, and XFree86 3.3.5. It should appear on the ftp site soon, and the Alpha release ought to follow shortly.
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SuSE 6.3 Released Today

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  • I liked SuSE 6.3 a lot, although I think the new graphical installer still has some flaws.

    can't wait to grab the necessary updates from the server, though ;-)
  • I have heard that suse6.3 comes with support for the reiner file system. is this true or just a rumor?

    "The importance of using technology in the right way has never been more clear." [microsoft.com]
  • Reiser FS ist public beta now, but not standard FS for SuSE. (maybe in 6.4)

    Bye egghat.
  • Please say the X-Windows configuration happens AFTER installation.

    Yes, it's nice to only have to reboot once during the entire installation, but I don't know how many times I had to redo my entire installation with RedHat when I was first starting out just because the X-configuration didn't go so hot.

    For new users who don't know that you can switch to a virtual terminal and telinit 3, a messed up X configuration combined with an X login means no access to the system!
  • I think that You need to use fewer new lines
    ---
  • hopefully, this time, it will be easier to upgrade individual packages than 6.2 was...

    i had the worst time trying to upgrade to E .16, because all the libraries that it wanted werent there...

    oh well... gotta admit that it blows redhat out of the water...
  • by wolfgang_spangler (40539) on Wednesday December 01, 1999 @10:00AM (#1489249) Homepage
    I think you are referring to this recent /. article [slashdot.org]. According to the press release [linuxpr.com] by LinuxPR [linuxpr.com] it IS supposed to be in SUSE 6.3, "...and we are pleased that with the release of SuSE 6.3 with journaling ReiserFS included we will be the first Linux vendor to ship journaling functionality" (taken from the abovementioned article).

    I e-mailed SUSE about this 4 days ago but have yet to get a response.

    - Wolfgang Spangler
  • Last I read on the site it said "the first week". Up till today it read December 3rd. I was unable to find anything that said it would be released today. The structure is there on the FTP site but there is nothing in it.

    -Wolfgang
  • Wasn't ReiserFS supposed to be released with the next (this?) version of SuSE? If so, why isn't there any mention of this supposedly fast, journalling(!!!) filesystem? If not, what happened?

    It definitely would've have counted as a deciding factor over other distributions with regards to getting installed on more enterprise-class servers.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    It _IS_ included, though not journalling reiserfs
  • I just noticed the same thing. The top of their web page ( www.suse.com [suse.com] ) said it would available on December 1 (it said that last night, and I believe it even said that earlier today). Now the site says "first week of December." I guess they had some sort of delay. I have been checking the FTP site all day watching for it. Guess I'll have to wait a while more. The funny thing is that there are already many files listed under the updates for 6.3 [suse.com].
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Suse releases every 3 months. You can buy a subscription, that will get a whole lot cheaper than buying every release separately.

    Besides, the complaint would make more sense if there was NOT much difference between consecuive releases, but there IS! So, why hold a very much improved version longer?

    If you want yearly releases, just buy one a year.
  • 6.3 has Reiserfs, but not the journaling version, it came out just a tad bit too late to be included.
    But 6.3 has LVM, finally decent disk management on Linux!

    cheers
    afx
  • its not about suse, bloat or haikus
    its about first post and no one seems to know how to read vertically, sort of like haiku kana i guess. hehe.
  • Can anyone point me to 6.3 iso image? I haven't
    been able to find one.

    Thanks.
  • Please note that this habit (of referring to X as the "X WindowS") had made it even in official GNU documentation (i.e. "X Windows" everywhere in the GNU Emacs 20.4 manual).

    Perhaps it was done intentionally? Perhaps it's time to give it up, and add another row to the manpage?

    At last, I see that using the right term is a way to show some respect to those people that provided us all with this great piece of well-engineered and well-thought software (...yes, I know that NeWS was technically better...).

    Just a 0.01 Euro this time.

  • i believe suse is a nice distribution for the real newbies to linux, YAST and SAX make everything damn easy, it has never been that simple to set up a linux system without having read some sort of literature about linux. i know it, i did it, i am new to linux (august 99, although i would have set up a linux system 2 years ago, if my HDD wasnt only 1,5GB...) and i only had really minor problems.

    but then, suse is a bit too simple after a certain period of time, but it tends to become even MORE easy to use with every new version. i dont know if i like this fact, the graphical YAST 2 is too damn simple!
    what differs linux from other OSs (except that it is almost free of charge) is the fact that you had to be good, to know something about your system, to know what you want, to a pro of a certain degree.

    nothing of this anymore, everythings just NEXT, YES, I AGREE, OK, OK, OK, FINISH (REBOOT NOW/LATER). sad(not to mention the RPMs!!) i believe Red Hat is a bit more advanced that Suse, and the real pros use Debian, dont they?

    today, it doesnt mean that much anymore if you can say, 'I use Linux'. 'So what, its just like win98'.....
  • by Anonymous Coward
    The open source model is "release early, release often". The difference between MS and SuSE is that you can download SuSE for free, or you can buy $2 CDs from the internet. I doubt there are any huge changes in the documentation from 6.2 to 6.3, and man pages and howtos are available for free. Nobody's forcing you to upgrade either (unlike some other companies who constantly change the file formats/APIs, rendering old software useless within a couple years). I don't think you'll have any problem running your favorite programs on 6.0 - just download the security updates and a new kernel, and you'll be fine.
  • Journalling Reiserfs and the tools for reiserfs were to go into SuSE 6.3. Some build issues kept it from being included into the standard kernel (unfortunately), but I expect to see patches to enable these features appear on ftp/web sites soon.

    It might actually be in the US version, but I haven't had a chance to look yet.

  • No one forces you to use YaST for everything. I use SuSE and find myself almost exclusively using YaST for installing new packages. You still can mess with configuration files the traditional way (which I prefer too), but if you dont want that you use the GUI.

    There is no point in making a system intentionally hard to use. Its not a problem to have something that is hard to configure, but you also shouldnt cry "Waa, its not special anymore" if you neighbor can start using it too. Using a cool and stable OS shouldnt be a priviledge but something available to everyone.

    And of course those who know what they do will always be able to get more out of their system no matter how many functions the GUI supports. :)
  • Well, I agree.. these would be pretty impressive... They have some issues though..

    • Star Office - not available for Alpha as binaries, questionable kosherness of redistributing on commercial product from SCSL-built sources, etc.
    • Netscape - Digital Unix netscape works, but isn't legal, as it requires runtime libraries from Compaq. Compaq I hear is working to allow this, but it will be some time. Netscape/alpha is yet to arrive.
  • With the new _friendly_ gui install (at least we hope so), X is configured as part of the install.

    This isn't so bad, as we use the VESA DDC to discover screen rates, and autodetect videocards, so usually there's nothing to 'configure'. If it manages to break, or if you don't like it, or if you don't even want to think about it, boot from CD#2 and use the familiar Yast1 install, sans-gui. The in-packaging hints suggest this is a possibility if you have trouble.

    Best of luck with Linux.

  • We tend to build the FTP and ISO images after we do the commercial release. It's not really any sort of grand scheme.. it's just we do the version which earns money first ;-)

    Thus, there are about 5 distributions to make:

      • German/European US version for silly cryptolaws German FTP version "international" FTP version for silly cryptolaws Eval version - condensed single-CD version

    Making all of these and testing all of these doesn't happen overnight. It will be there shortly.

  • We tend to build the FTP and ISO images after we do the commercial release. It's not really any sort of grand scheme.. it's just we do the version which earns money first ;-)

    Thus, there are about 5 distributions to make:

    1. German/European
    2. US version for silly cryptolaws
    3. German FTP version
    4. "international" FTP version for silly cryptolaws
    5. Eval version - condensed single-CD version

    Making all of these and testing all of these doesn't happen overnight. It will be there shortly.

  • Yes, the Promise Ultra/66 should work with 6.3

    At least all other UDMA/66 controllers are working.. the Promise one has proved a little more squirrely than most. I believe it is happy now, but I'm not making a promise.

    If it doesn't work OOTB (Out Of The Box), we'll have a floppy image soon enough.

    In fact, we've had UDMA floppy images for 66 for a bit now. If you'd like to try one send me a mail.

  • i agree but in to particular reference to the sus distribution. star office is currently the most stable all-rounder...

    KOffice looks like it could be /it/!
  • I've been using SuSe since 5.2 when I changed from
    using Red Hat. I find the way to keep SuSe under
    control is to use "ENABLE_SUSECONFIG=no" in
    /etc/rc.config. It still does has the annoying reading through rc.config twice during every single rc script though.

    Regards
  • (see bottom for answer to question) Gnome is now MUCH better supported than in 6.2. FInally, you can make Gnome your default in yast, and also select it in xdm/kdm when you login (if it's installed) when you login. Also, the program menu in EE shows all installed apps, I don't think that worked back in 6.2. It looks very good. Looks like I'll finally try out Gnome, I used only KDE so far. Another thing I found is LVM ("logical volume manager"), which can even be configured from within yast. I'll _have_ to try it... That's the names of the rpm's on CD2 starting with gn* on SuSE Linux 6.3: gnadmin-1.0.3-33.i386.rpm gncontr-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm gncontrd-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm gncore-1.0.54-1.i386.rpm gncored-1.0.54-1.i386.rpm gngames-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm gngamesd-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm gnlibs-1.0.53-3.i386.rpm gnlibsd-1.0.53-3.i386.rpm gnmedia-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm gnnet-1.0.2-44.i386.rpm gnobjc-1.0.2-58.i386.rpm gnorpm-0.9-1.i386.rpm gnotepad-1.1.2-57.i386.rpm gnpim-1.0.55-3.i386.rpm gnprint-0.10-3.i386.rpm gnprintd-0.10-3.i386.rpm gnumeric-0.41-3.i386.rpm gnuplot-3.7-55.i386.rpm gnutils-1.0.50-3.i386.rpm -- Michael Hasenstein EMail: mhasenst@us.oracle.com (and, by the way, SuSE Linux 6.3 is certified by Oracle with Oracle 8i already! plus: http://www.suse.de/~mha/oracle/)
    --
    Michael Hasenstein
    http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/ [tu-chemnitz.de]
  • (see bottom for answer to question)

    Gnome is now MUCH better supported than in 6.2. FInally, you can make Gnome your default in yast, and also select it in xdm/kdm when you login (if it's installed) when you login. Also, the program menu in EE shows all installed apps, I don't think that worked back in 6.2. It looks very good. Looks like I'll finally try out Gnome, I used only KDE so far.

    Another thing I found is LVM ("logical volume manager"), which can even be configured from within yast. I'll _have_ to try it...

    That's the names of the rpm's on CD2 starting with gn* on SuSE Linux 6.3:
    gnadmin-1.0.3-33.i386.rpm
    gncontr-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm
    gncontrd-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm
    gncore-1.0.54-1.i386.rpm
    gncored-1.0.54-1.i386.rpm
    gngames-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm
    gngamesd-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm
    gnlibs-1.0.53-3.i386.rpm
    gnlibsd-1.0.53-3.i386.rpm
    gnmedia-1.0.51-3.i386.rpm
    gnnet-1.0.2-44.i386.rpm
    gnobjc-1.0.2-58.i386.rpm
    gnorpm-0.9-1.i386.rpm
    gnotepad-1.1.2-57.i386.rpm
    gnpim-1.0.55-3.i386.rpm
    gnprint-0.10-3.i386.rpm
    gnprintd-0.10-3.i386.rpm
    gnumeric-0.41-3.i386.rpm
    gnuplot-3.7-55.i386.rpm
    gnutils-1.0.50-3.i386.rpm

    --
    Michael Hasenstein
    EMail: mhasenst@us.oracle.com
    (and, by the way, SuSE Linux 6.3 is certified by Oracle with Oracle 8i already!
    plus: http://www.suse.de/~mha/oracle/)

    --
    Michael Hasenstein
    http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/ [tu-chemnitz.de]
  • It still does has the annoying reading through rc.config twice during every single rc script though.

    What the h... are you talking about?! Not a single SysV rc-file does anything special with rc.config, all they do is to "source" it, so that variables set in rc.config can be checked within the rc-files. That's regular shell stuff and no magic. Get yourself a beginners guide to shells!

    Besides, it only sources rc.config ONCE, not twice. And setting a shell variable START_[some-daemon]="Yes|No" in rc.config is a lot easier than removing and inserting links in the runlevel directories. With the SuSE method those links are always there, with the correct names, meaning the correct numbers, i.e. the correct sequence of startup and shutdown. Of course, if you think a "real (Marlboro?) man" is one who keeps track of all these links in all the various runlevel directories, so be it.
    --
    Michael Hasenstein
    http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/ [tu-chemnitz.de]

  • Oh yeah! I'm so excited by this release. It seems like forever since the last new and exciting linux distro release. I'm really bummed that the journaling file system isn't included. That is so critical for the production grade db stuff I do on a daily basis.

    I'm still going to try this version of SUSE. This will be my first time trying it. So far, I've tried Red Hat and Mandrake, and I actually preferred Mandrake over Red Hat. Now I've been hearing great things about SUSE and I can't wait to give it a try!

  • Personaly, the only two distro's I consider are Debian and Redhat, but it really doesn't matter what you use, aside from the installation process.

    You can set up any linux box to boot up to a simplistic (read: limited) X interface and feel like you're using windoze. But at the same time, you can take any user friendly distro and rip off the cruft, making it into a barebones system.

    Personaly, between Debian and Redhat, I'm more of a Redhat man, because of how far Debian has gotten behind. Now, don't get me wrong, I have *high* respect for the Debian crew. They spend heaps of time making sure their distro has been tested and working flawlessly. Yeah, there may be a few less than perfect initscripts in RH, or this and that, but it isn't anything that 5 minutes wont fix, and it doesn't involve needing an internet connection. And it is also true that graphical installers happen to suck ass, but I'm not going to choose my distro based on something I only have to do once with it.

    Because most of my installs have been on new machines, and I don't want to install Debian and then have to bring the whole system up to speed, as I think their stable distro is still glibc 2.0 (correct me if I am wrong on this). (Hehe, maybe I could find someone to make me some unstable distro cd's and find a non-critical box). I might be able to get away with a ftp/nfs install, but my internet connection (cable modem through Cox@Home) is terribly flaky.

    When Debian goes stable on their latest distro, and I have another machine that needs a fresh install, it will be with Debian. If not, it will probably be a Redhat box. Doesn't really matter that much to me.

    But the overall point is, no matter what distro you use, it is up to you if you want it to be windoze like, or if you want to tear it down and change it. Nothing is hidden from you when you run an open system. :)
  • I'm running the German S.u.S.E. 6.3 right now, and have menuconfig right in front of my face:
    Under Filesystems:
    Reiserfs support

    Hmmmm. Looks like it's there to me. Haven't tried it out yet though. (Considering I don't even know how to make use of it yet, I probably won't until other people pound on it for a while)

    Chris
  • I sure hope that the journalling edition wasn't included; the base format for the filesystem is still in flux.

    I would tend to think it highly questionable to include a filesystem before it has even entered the experimental kernel series.

    Reiserfs may be close to being ready for that, but it's not quite ready for general deployment...


  • When I installed Suse 6.2 on my mother's p60, w/32Mb ram and an 8gig hd, we did the install and did not have to bother with Xwin. Mom went and just bought the cds in an effort to keep her little aging computer useful. I had to dig up the driver for the video card which is about 6 years old, maybe older. I configured it when I had time about a week or so later. It took some extra time and was less intuitive, but it is up and running rather well.
    Some time even later, I did the PPP configuration using yast, which was remarkably simple. Now what I have to do is get the Netscape version that is on there to load .jpg files correctly. Does any one have any ideas what could be fouling that up?
  • >I think the new graphical installer still has some flaws.

    BTW, does anyone have any screenshots of the new GUI installer?

    Alex Bischoff
    ---

  • I too bought SUSE6.2 when it came out for my first Distro. my first couple of installs went pretty easy and that let me get into it. Just when I thought I had the hang of it I tried to do an install on a IBM ThinkPad 760xd that was gatering dust. That was a learning experience! It had a bizzarre video card that really didn;t like Sax, but,using the suse manual an o'reilley book managed to get it going, and in the process learn all kinds of config stuff that I wasn't going to pick up any other way.

    anyway, my point is just cause Yast is pretty easy that doesn't mean you can;t learn the hard way too.

    regards
    Travis
  • Actually, I found that I could get individual copies from CheapBytes for about the price of a subscription copy.

    D

    ----
  • by orcrist (16312)
    My bag. I just read below that it's the non-journaling Reiserfs which is included with 6.3

    Chris
  • I would tend to think it highly questionable to include a filesystem before it has even entered the experimental kernel series.

    I prefer it to be there so I can decide whether to use it or not. Afterall you have to compile the kernel to have it in there, and let's face it, if you're compiling a kernel you should be in a position to decide whether you want to try it or not. Complete newbies will probably just use one of the pre-compiled kernels. Anyways, even if it were compiled in, the filesystem used by the setup is ext2, so I can hardly imagine someone will just stumble into using the experimental stuff.

    Chris
  • Well init 3 on SuSE Linux starts xdm/kdm or gdm
    so it might be better to say init 2 :-)
  • The question is, if Linux becomes very popular, would it still be Linux?

    There are probably many people who would not like to see the power of Linux in the hands of "the unwashed masses" and leave.

    Will this happen?

  • First, SuSE in the past did not force X install but annoyed the hell out of you if you did not install X. Just ignore that crap and get everything non-X going before going through XF86Config or SAX.

    Second never do a X login until after you get the X configuration correct. Personally, I go for the text mode login and an edited .profile that launches into startx as the last line. Newbies don't face the dreaded command line for long and it gives you less crap than the X login stuff. I have in the past had my X configuration perfect, my system worked just fine but after going for the graphical login nobody could get in. Annoying.
  • Gosh, the guy thought he knew what he was talking about but did not. Give it a rest. Explain to someone why they are wrong but there is no need to go off on them. Your response is the kind of garbage that give linux/unix users a bad name.

    How many times have I heard "Yeah the linux guy I work with knows everything but he is so rude I would not ask him a question to save my soul."

    I have also heard "If the rude back and forth bickering I see on most linux newsgroups is what you guys call community you can have it."
  • I hope this graphic install isn't as buggy as
    that of Corel. Hopefully I can have a normal
    install, I sure hell don't want to be stuck
    in a graphic boot as is plagued Corel Linux.

    Under Corel the loading of the graphic kdm
    was done after the boot at level 2. Normally
    you switch to level 2 to get the system back
    to sanity but Corel forced the graphic boot
    even under level 2.

    Removing the offending kdm script fixed the bug
    but it was quite annoying to have to look for the
    solution to the graphic boot.

  • by jfunk (33224)
    Interestingly enough, those screenshots have a KDE 2 look to them.

    Are they including a pre-alpha KDE 2 with 6.3? Did they modify KDE 1 like Corel did?

    Maybe this is only for the YaST 2...
  • The issues coming over the ReiserFS mailing list are that the base format ( e.g. handling of things like the superblock) are being changed, and it is reasonably likely that the FS running today on 2.2.13 will not be readable by the version of ReiserFS that will is deployed next month on 2.3.x.

    There is not yet agreement as to what the upgrade path should be like.

    The point is that what's available a month from now will likely not "play well" with what is available right now. That's necessary in the development of a better filesystem; it is certainly not good for the deployment of this, at least not just yet.

  • ok
    --
    Michael Hasenstein
    http://www.csn.tu-chemnitz.de/~mha/ [tu-chemnitz.de]
  • I guess that is why Linus runs SuSE, cause it's just for newbies.

  • So have you tried sending any e-mail to suse.de and let them know of your plight ? Might be good to try that as they have been excellent in all of my requests for help.
  • by mike32 (121342)
    Hi, Is all the 1500 apps which come with suse 6.3 in rpm format becuase i want to do a full install and then remive what i dont want and it will be easier to do if they are rpms.
  • >> Is your last line "keep on keeping on" a reference to the Keith Caputo song?

    ..Or is it a reference to Greg Sage - "Straight ahead"??
  • Is all the 1500 apps which come with suse 6.3 in rpm format...

    Yes
  • The last time SuSE talked about the images "soon" being on their ftp-servers it took about two weeks so they had enough time to make _big_ profits with selling their CDs... why do I always get the impression SuSE that tries to copy M$'s success, with similar rough methods? Think about the registry, pardon, rc.config...
  • Screenshots are here [www.suse.de]!
  • I got my 6.3 (the one for the german market) last week. There was no problem in getting it at our University's bookshop
  • So, any bets on how much of Yast2 gets translated properly this time? *snicker*

    -Josh
  • what do you mean "if my HDD wasn't only 1.5 GB"...
    I just installed slackware (an older version, kernel 2.0.0) on a 386 with a 40MB hard drive, with 5 megs left over for user files. i got gcc, the c libs, tcp/ip, sendmail, and a Scheme interpreter into that little space.

    damn kids today... just don't appreciate disk space...


    joe

  • Um....it IS XWindows. Yes, the full name is the X Windowing System, and it really doesn't have anything to do with how your display works and looks, but we even called it XWindows back when I started college in '92. Are you complaining that it's used generically, like "Linux 6.1"? Or that we just added an X to the beginning of that other OS?

    Do you complain when people say "Can you hand me a Kleenex?" when there's nothing but Acme brand facial tissue around? Or when your boss tells you that he needs some Xerox's made of these papers for a presentation this afternoon?

    If people are bugging you to install Linux like people used to bug me, point out to them that they will have no problem installing it themselves. Tell them where on the CD the Linux-Install-HOWTO is. Tell them to make sure they grab all the manuals for their computer just in case their hardware isn't recognized so they can look at it and pick the right one out of a list. Don't get so uppity, if it hadn't been for people telling me where to find the information on how to do all the things I learned back when, I wouldn't know as much as I do now.

    And maybe they'll learn enought o stop asking you questions in the first place, which should be your ultimate goal anyway.

  • They do not include pre-alpha KDE2 :-( They only used QT2 for their installer (the start with platinum-style)
  • There seems to be no in-between in SuSE. Either I spend an eternity selecting or deselecting packages, or I use YAST2 and select BIIG Chunks of software at once, with no chance to fine-grain.

    I would like to see something like this on the package-selection in Linux-Distributions:

    • Base System (needed components)
    • Services
      • Printing
      • Local Mail transfer
      • Fax Tools
      • ...
    • Server Applications
      • Web Servers
      • - with SSL
    • ..

    Office Applications

    • Text Editing
    • Word Processing
    • .....

    ...
    Not even Corel has something like that. When I install my workstation I do not care if the email program I install is called 'balsa' or 'empath'. I want to have an email program. You can give me a selection of email programs and tell me how

    • Userfriendly
    • Functional
    • Buggy
    • ...
    they are. I decide then - but I really hate it to go through the packages series and go through a bunch of cryptic package names to select.

    I also really would like to have an alphabetical list where all the packages are listed. I recently looked for the printing services (lpr) and I found it in networking. Ok, yes you can print over the network but that was not my first thought.

    Other than that I really like SuSE and I was using 5.2 and then got into it from 6.0/6.1/6.2 and now 6.3. I did one install with YAST2 to try it out, looked at the mess it installed (as I said: one click selects a BIIIG number of applications) tried to deselect what I did not like, then did a clean re-install with YAST just selecting what I wanted (wasting another half an hour).

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