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LinuxPPC unleashes LinuxPPC 1999 Q3 88

Posted by Hemos from the rolling-out-the-new dept.
haaz writes "LinuxPPC Inc. took the wraps off their newest release, LinuxPPC 1999 Q3, today. It's got RAGE 128 video card drivers, and a whole gaggle of fixes for iMacs and Blue G3s, plus new glibc, GNOME and gcc packages. Bochs is thrown in for good measure, along with an updated graphical installer. "
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LinuxPPC unleashes LinuxPPC 1999 Q3 More

LinuxPPC unleashes LinuxPPC 1999 Q3

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  • I use paul's rsync and the snooze util from ftp://devel.linuxppc.org/pub/users/paulus/

  • They use the frame buffer device for ATI RAGE128. Currently it works on PPC only, but work for other architectures should be underway.
  • Maybe not in the States, but I just got an R5 CD from EverythingLinux in Australia, took two days to arrive. Tonight's the big install night :-)

  • I agree (Score:1)

    by kfort ( 1132 )
    it took them a long time to get mine shipped too. They need to speed up
  • And what to think of Office 98 or Office 2001 for the Mac?
  • You can't turn it off. The PMU does a lot more than sleep mode, it replaces Cuda (ADB controller) which manages the keyboard and the trackpad, and it handles the nvram on those machines.

    What you did probably turn off is the compile option for Power Management. This option enables the sleep code and should be harmless unless you actually try to sleep. For sleeping, there is the snooze command, and there's a little daemon (pmud) written by Paul, which monitors your machine and can excute scripts when the Power cable is connecter or disconnected. pmud also handles sleep when the lid is closed.

  • People were complaning about the OS on macs. Many thing were said, _still_ no preemptive multitasking... single user... no memmory managmennt... no shell... I don't remember people complaning about the hw that much, other than that it wasn't modular. Now that it seems that macs are hw modular and run Linux, theres not so much to complain about... Well... PRICE! Those god damn things are way too expensive!!! |)

    LINUX stands for: Linux Inux Nux Ux X
  • Anyone have any experince with one. I wonder what other uses it could have, and what other OS's could be ported.....maybe Mac OS X along with Linux?


  • They LinuxPPC team has done a helluva job on it and I would personally recommend it. I have it on my personal machine plus another machine sitting next to me that I was building last night to be a nice linux distros mirror at Kansas State University. Its very sturdy and well worth your time. You can get the Q3 CDs for only $20 too since you are a previous owner. Highly recommended. Good luck!
  • I ordered R4, back when it was "buy R4 and we'll ship you R5 for free when it comes out."

    I had the R4 disc within a week, and I got my copy of R5 (LinuxPPC 1999) a few days after they announced it.

  • You can check on your order online right now.

    https://order.linuxppc.com/status/

    Put in your email address, and the system will send you an email with the status of your order.

    Best,
  • The manual is on the CD in PDF format.
  • It's Bochs, the x86 emulator.
  • How about sending them to me, instead of the ng, which I don't have much time to read? :)
  • I tried this more than once. Says it shipped a while ago but I never got a cd. Could be the good old U.S. Post.

    I just want the cd and I would love a response from some one at LinuxPPC. I actually emailed you "haaz" but I haven't gotten a reply. Don't reply on slashdot, reply to me via email on what should happen.

    I'm sick of calling Minnesota over such a silly issue.
  • Old Redhat(I think 2.0) had an X based install. It took lots of mem, and took about 4 hrs to copy 200mb on a 486, while 5.1 only takes 45 min. I agree X installers suck because they waste mem and resources, windows can keep its pretty installers to itself.

  • Adobe Illustrator '88 followed Illustrator 1.0 What was really nasty though was that they didn't
    ship Illustrator 3.0 until late '91 or '92, which is the reason I suspect they went back to standard version numbers...
  • I pre-ordered mine and got the R4 distrobution. I had my copy of R5 within 3 days or so of it coming out. It worked out pretty quickly for me. Interesting...... Keep in mind that they have a small crew over there; which means that most of their workers probably have to double or triple up on the jobs that each one does.
  • Is OF booting working on the iMac/B&W G3s yet? I've a couple of G3s here that I'd like to be able to netboot using the "Hold down the N key" feature which makes OF send TFTP requests. Last time I tried, this didn't work with Linux because the code needed to be updated to work with the newer firmware. As a result, we've ended up with them running NetBSD. Has this been fixed yet?
  • That's some really good news. I didn't know there was yet a way to put the PBG3 to sleep. I've been reading old "Powerbook Support" pages, I guess.

    Do you recommend any pages that are pretty up-to-date?

    peace,

    ijones
  • If the computer hangs, it's a kernel issue. ;)
  • It is not much slower either.
  • If you're calling Minnesota that might be your problem. LinuxPPC is located in Hales Corners, Wisconsin.
  • The year numbering scheme was first tried by Adobe if memory serves for Illustrator 88. Needless to say that was the only year versioning attempted by Adobe that I remember.

    I think Microsoft likes it because it makes your software feel old more readily. Still using Windows 95? Who can remember 4.00b.3128.032-SR2b anyhow?
  • Q3 as in 3rd quarter? or Q3 as in Quake 3.

    I think it's the second one.
  • This year based numbering scheme is dumb... Wasn't it Microsoft's idea in the first place? They have some good ideas sometimes, especially in the area of marketing, but this one is for the birds. Why emulate it? The only other industry that uses year based systems is the auto industry which is hardly a model for dynamic, forward thinking companies in most cases.
  • Nope, no quake, at least not as far as I can tell. They had me going, too. ;)
  • Does this mean there is a Rage 128 driver available for us i386 users too? It bites not having an XFree86-supported video card.

  • It's nice to see lilypond is included. Lilypond is the main program I run on my home computer (which happens to be running linuxppc).

  • Actually, the year-based numbering scheme makes a certain amount of sense, for several reasons. With this scheme, there is absolutely no doubt about hoe old a product is, and it is easy to identify features and additions. Which is easier, really-- Linux 2.1.134pl6 or Linux95? :) Seriously, though--in many ways it helps to more accurately identify product versions that other systems.

    On the other hand, I supported Windows 95 and Office 97 for a long time, and it gets very frustrating when the average user says: "I have Windows 97 on their machine. How do I print a label?". "Do you mean Windows 98, or Office 97?" Of course they have no idea. Maybe the only good way is to giove every product a completely different name, with no numbers attached at all. "I'm using Super Death Office From Hell for Windows In The Red Box. How do I print a label?"

    darren

  • Now that there's the Rage 128 support, I'm gpoing to have to get one... I wonder if I can get a MacOS rebate (like the wintel rebate scheme)... or else try to get someone who is building those boards that IBM laid out the spec for.

    I've always liked the PowerPC architecture(s), but this actually makes it worth my trouble. Whoo-hoo!

  • G4 (Score:1)

    by norton_I ( 64015 )
    Now I *really* want one of those G4's with the flatpanel displays...
  • i have a linuxppc4 install on my computer that is somewhat messed up, mostly because i made the mistake of trying to download the whole damn thing over a modem instead of buying the CD. I need to reinstall it, and I'm considering grabbing a copy of the linuxppc 5 CD. However i was curious about maybe switching to debian instead.

    i was wondering if anyone could tell me what the status of the port of the Debian distribution to the PPC platform is? is it usable yet? The page at
    http://www.debian.org/ports/powerpc/
    says almost nothing.. and the documentation listed there in the docu/ directory returns 404 not founds. there's some powerpc binaries at
    ftp://ftp.us.debian.org//debian/dists/potato/mai n/binary-powerpc/
    but i have no idea how to install them, and no clue where the documentation is.

    Has anyone actually used this, or can anyone tell me how it's going? Are there installation instructions somewhere i missed? Is the Potato thing there really a full, complete distribution?

    I've never used debian, and I'm not totally certain how the debian distribution would be different (especially since i never get to use RPM anyway, so the package manager doesn't matter much to me..) but i'm curious. Is it worth checking out, or should i just go with the Linuxppc 5/1999?
  • I'm all for making interfaces more appealing, but in the case of the LinuxPPC graphical installer, I think they totally screwed up.

    My biggest problem is that they present a sequential task as a non-sequential task (by allowing you to click on any step of the install process in any order you like). You cannot install linux into a partition you haven't created yet.

    It's also confusing to start-up into x-windows with lot's of visual clutter (mouse eyes, task bar, logo windows) as opposed to going into a modal install program where you can do *one* thing: install the software.
  • and I must say that its very nice. I was in the market to get a laptop to run linux, and after I did some research on linux ppc I decided to get a 99 powerbook g3. I have *not* been disapointed :-). It has snooze (sleep), hot swapable media bays, usb, all kinds of great stuff supported by linux. I highly recommend it. The linux ppc guys have done a great job. The era of intel is coming to an end :-)

    Kirk
  • Has anyone had this problem, everything is rock stable w/ running X on LinuxPPC on iMac rev C. However, once I run XMMS, it will lock up the whole computer (no keyboard,mouse,telnet) in anywhere from one to ten hours. Do I need the latest kernel or their updated "bootup" programs that fixes sound and video problems? Anyone experience the same thing?
  • Quick question for ya... PMU (Apple's power management unit) sleep is the _only_ thing I haven't turned on on my Lombard G3; I just haven't built a kernel with it enabled yet. :) Which kernel are you using (perhaps Paul Mackerras's "stable" rsync branch?) with your G3? And which compiler?

    I'll heavily recommend the 1999 PowerBook G3 series. They're just so neat.

    --
  • Does anyone know if you can use a Voodoo3 flashed with the Macintosh ROMs under LinuxPPC? I know there is support in XF86, but I thought that just might be for Intel ROM V3s.

  • More USB mice? (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Will I be able to use my Microsoft (ugh) Intellimouse USB on my iMac now?

    I'm a linux newbie, so maybe it was possible before, but I couldn't figure it out. If anyone would care to point me to a source that could help me...
  • Does anyone distribute a cheap version of
    LinuxPPC on CD? I wrote to a few guys, asking if
    they were planning to release one, and got
    the following answers:

    LinuxMall - No, we do not have a single-CD
    version of it and I do not know of
    any plans to have one in the near future.

    LinuxCentral - Probably not :(

    CheapBytes - If you are referring to a low cost
    version, we have been planning on doing
    that for awhile. We have a power mac
    sitting here just for the task. No
    definite date of availability at this
    time.

    Any ideas? anyone wants to start a business?
  • I think that year based numbering schemes are great, except for the fact that Microsoft doesn't even follow them. Is that Windows 95? Or Windows 95 B? Oh, it's Windows 98. Is is Windows 98 SE? My opinion is that if you are going to standardize on a naming system, be consistent. ESPECIALLY if it is going to be on the shelf selling for full price as a new product.
  • Hey i've been thinking about that for awhile also.. I have two cd writers, some secure webspace, and a costco near by (cdrs are dirt cheap at costco:)) With a little help I could start some sort of business or just make you a copy and send it to ya. Let me know what you think -Matt callofktulu@earthlink.net

  • A lot of people may have missed the news that LinuxPPC is now offering a quarterly subscription model. For $99, you get CDs for a year, with promised releases every quarter. Under this scheme, having the quarter of release be the version name makes an awful lot of sense, as the most unambiguous way of identifying what version a user has.

    This is rather nice even if one doesn't intend to update every three months, as R5 was pushed back from its release date for about half a year (two current releases-worth of time).

  • It probably won't be "easy". The iBook uss the new United Motherboard Architecture (UMA) and the new UniNorth controller chip. This support will have to be added before LinuxPPC will work with it. However, since the new "Sawtooth" G4s, the new "Kihei" iMac on the way, and the upcoming G4 Powerbooks in January all are basd on the UMA, adding support for the iBook will make it easier to get it working on these other machines.

    I spoke to Jason Haas at LinuxPPC and basically he said it would take some time, but that it would work eventually.
  • just boot into the Open Firmware prompt (cmd-ctrl-o-f i think)

    cmd-option-o-f

  • I suggest taking them to comp.os.linux.powerpc

    Lots of knowledge in there... if you got a question, search through the newsgroup with deja.com [deja.com]'s engine or get right on that comp.os.linux.powerpc [comp.linux.powerpc] link ;o)

    -nicole
  • Okay so i screwed up the link...please do not ream me.

    comp.os.linux.powerpc [os.linux.powerpc]

    -nicole
  • Yes, the Debian PPC port works quite well (it's what I run on my G3 PowerBook). The installation documentation is, well... missing. I would strongly recommend that you install Debian on an Intel system before attempting a LinuxPPC install. I've done countless Debian Intel installs, so it's likely I've brushed over an important detail that didn't seem so important to me. Here's how I did it:

    Partition your disks how you'd like, using something like MacOS's disk tool. You might have to boot from the CD to do this. You could use a pmac-enabled fdisk, but since you're not in Linux yet, you can't.

    Download the Debian base stuff like normal. Get base_21.tgz (or whatever they call the one large archive) and put it somewhere the install program can find it (like an NFS share, CD-ROM, or even an HFS partition). Get the Debian boot images and the ramdisk image.

    Grab the LinuxPPC install program. Expand it somewhere and run the BootX program, but don't
    let it boot the kernel from the LinuxPPC setup. Choose the Debian kernel instead, with the proper ramdisk settings (the default should be good). To get BootX to find the Debian kernels might be kinda tricky... try by putting it in System Folder:Linux Kernels. A little goofing around got me booting the Debian kernels.

    When you boot, it should start the dbootstrap program, and you'll have to find where you put that Debian base system. You should be able to mount an HFS partition (NOT HFS+, but regular HFS).

    The rest of the installation should be normal. I might have forgotten a big impotant step here, as I'm recalling this from memory of an installation two weeks ago. I would recommend highly that you follow the unstable ("potato") branch of things. I can't imagine how unusable the stable ("slink") branch would be.

    --
  • I have a feeling not. At least, not right off -- The designs are sufficiently disimilar to make it a mjor headache, I'm sure.

    I don't suppose some keen driver hacker who is not me could look and see what changes can be made? For both Gnome and KDE look equally stupid in 640x480x4.
  • I forgot to add this in my previous post: I might have not actually booted the Debian kernels, but I definitely booted the Debian ramdisk images. I probably booted the Linux kernel that came with LinuxPPC.

    Another important tip: www.linuxppc.org has _excellent_ installation documentation. Give it a good read even if doing a Debian install. It filled me in on lots of the little details I was completely ignorant to before I started.

    Even though I'm a big Debian fan, I would recommend giving LinuxPPC an install if you're new to the PPC scene. The LinuxPPC guys have done an excellent job of getting together a great installation program and distribution in such (comparitively) little time (well, compared to Intel Linux). I also find the LinuxPPC lists to be full of really skilled and friendly people always adding cool new features to the Linux kernels and the programs they maintain. Don't forget to search the LinuxPPC mailing list archives, lots of questions you have can be answered there.

    --
  • I believe this is probably an X/library/xmms issue, not a kernel issue. I'm using Paul's 2.2.12 kernel on a Lombard G3, but with a Debian installation (Debian XFree86 FB_DEV, Debian's build of glibc 2.1, Debian's build of xmms) and I have no problems with it.

    --

  • The year-based approach to version numbers seems especially inappropriate for an OS like Linux, where the speed of development is faster than for an OS like Windows. It's not entirely bad for Windows to be released with a year-based name, since it's more user-friendly for the home market and Microsoft doesn't release more than one version per year anyway.

    Since the Linux market tends right now to be based on very knowledgable computer users (who at least don't mind names like Linux 2.1.134pl6), and since new versions of Linux distributions can sometimes be released more than 2 or 3 times a year, the name-based approach loses its appeal here. The old scheme is more informative to more people.

    But who really cares what it's called anyway? The important thing is to commend the folks at LinuxPPC for what seems like some great work. It's come a long, long way from just two versions back, whatever the heck you want to call it.


  • I wonder if I can get a MacOS rebate (like the wintel rebate scheme)

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the alleged goal with the wintel rebate was that Microsoft was charging hardware vendors to ship their machines with Windows. Apple doesn't charge Apple to ship its own machines with Mac OS, at least not in nearly in the same way.

    Although some people will never be able to grasp the concept, part of the Mac value proposition is that the lines between the hardware and the softwware are blurred a bit more. The industry will always attempt to box Apple into a "hardware company" or a "software company", when it's actually both: a computer company.

    - Scott

    ------
    Scott Stevenson
  • Will I be able to use my Microsoft (ugh) Intellimouse USB on my iMac now?

    Maybe, but I think it's unlikley. If it doesn't work under Mac OS, it probably wont work under linux.

    I got a cheap USB three button from Belkin in March. It worked on the Mac OS, and did the same under LinuxPPC R4. Cool thing was, I didn't have to do any fiddling with config files; all three buttons functioned just like they would on a PC right off the bat.

    HOWEVER, Linux doesn't support USB plug and play, AFAIK. I found this out the hard way when I unplugged one of the mice from my iMac and spent the next half hour fscking my partitions. :-)

    Linus is threatening to improve USB support in 2.4, maybe P&P will work then.
  • I think that's why they've included the Quarter it was released in. I kind of like it. Wouldn't it be kind of cool to be driving a June 1999 Dodge RAM? That way people who obsessively upgrade would buy twelve trucks a year (if they could afford it.)
    Imagine a whole shelf full of RedHat 1999 Jan-Dec. $960 a year just to keep current. If you only release quarterly, that's still $280 for a year's worth of installs. NT Workstation ends up costing $1000 or so quarterly. That's the subscription model that Microserfs fantisize about while masturbating.
  • Come on. Wasn't Aldus Freehand once a version 88?

    They were doing the year based version scheme a decade ago, then switched over to standard numbers. Hmm... Now if everyone wasn't so panicky about Y2k, we'd probably still be running with the original decimal version increases.

    Course, Microsoft always has to find some nifty gimic to capture attention. I still feel those year-based versions are for internal use, like an absolute deadline for software release... otherwise their stuff would be permanently delayed.

  • When R5 first came out, I tried (and tried, and tried) to get the X installer to work to no avail... I think that the X installer is more a proof of concept & "gee whiz, we're creating an X installer" kind of thing than anything else. I think it stinks, too. Since then, I've always used the Red Hat installer, especially since, functionally, it is almost exactly the same as the Red Hat x86 installer, which I'm already familiar with.

    -toby
  • Here are a few useful links; I'm planning on installing Debian on a g3 (eventually) so I've been collecting the following....

    • Installing Debian PPC [debian.org]: Pretty detailed installation instructions that I think will be the official Debian docs. I'm not sure why it isn't linked to the main powerpc port page (or maybe I couldn't find it).

    • Debian instructions [dartmouth.edu] from the LinuxPPC faq-o-matic (I think these are kinda old)

    • Cryptic Installation instructions [vcsun.org] for a blue G3 from a more seasoned Debian user

    • Installing Debian over LinuxPPC [soundwave.net]: (I can't seem to get the link to work but as I recall it was a good one; hopefully it works by the time anyone bothers to read this post)

    • Debian PowerPC Joys & Woes [debian.org]: a useful post from the debian-powerpc list

    • base2_2.tgz [debian.org]: The huge file you need to install Debian. (hey this is like 12M so don't just click away unless you're really ready to do this). Also it's not the newest version but it is rumored to be stable and nice. You might be better off downloading it from a mirror [debian.org].

    • Debian for m68k [linux-m68k.org] exists also. Eventually I may try to put it on my old mac plus with the busted monitor, hey why not....

    That's all I can find at the moment. But I can swear I remember seeing some unfinished installation docs while poking around a mirror of their ftp site. But I can't find it now. Enjoy,

    Ben

  • Wow! No this wasn't Microsoft's Idea thank you very much. No comment on not being a "forward thinking company" :)

    birds don't like me
    jcarr
  • Maybe it's that dumb head up your ass thing.
    Why don't you pull your head out of your ass and tell ROSIE to let go!
    ;P
  • Getting Linux to run on the iBook will probably be easy, although it might be a while before Airport works and the advanced power saving features may never be used to thier full extent. Unless Apple releases that stuff in Darwin.......

    OTOH, the PPC guys don't have to worry about hot swaping drives or infra-red support.
  • Ha! You'll be getting much more than that eventually!
    Read here [openprojects.net] for good news and here [openprojects.net] for bad news (well, at least for you).
  • Lots of the problems with the installer have been fixed and many people have testified to being able to actually install and get linux up and running for the first time. You probably used one of early versions.

    The non-sequential nature of how the installer wasn't ever straightened out. But hey, guess what I did today :) New installer 2.6.5 should have this feature.
    jcarr
  • Well, that'd work ;o) The ng seems to have a great knowledge base also.

    -nicole
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • I asked this in the SAP discussion, but it fits in more in this one.

    Any word on when/if Linux/Beowolf will will run on one of these [sky.com]?
  • Well I'm glad to see they are busy selling more CD's. I'm just sort of curious where the CD that I ordered over two months ago is!

    I've called once and written 4 emails. Guy on the phone was clueless whether it had shipped or not. I haven't gotten a single response from any of my emails. (Sent the email to three different email addresses.)

    Arrrrgh!

    LinuxPPC maybe cool but if they can't get organized then they are going to flop.
  • bootx is only one way to boot linuxppc. It is the one the linuxppc.com people push because it is the simplest if you already have a macos installation (which almost everyone with lppc does).

    It is completely possible to not even have macos on the drive-- just boot into the Open Firmware prompt (cmd-ctrl-o-f i think) and type in a couple quick commands, and it will start up in linuxppc every time after that until you boot into macos (which will reset your OF stuff.. although you can set it back from there with this convenient program called Boot Variables.)

    This is all very clearly documented in the linuxppc.org installation instructions, which i guess you've never had reason to read.

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