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HP to release 3 thin clients PCs 61

Posted by HeUnique from the and-they-use-Linux dept.
According to an Article in InfoWorld, HP will release next week a new family of thin client PCs. Out of the 3 models that they will release, 2 of them will be with an embedded Linux core (the L & X models, and the G model with MS Windows CE) and they'll include Netscape Navigator for browser-based access to Java programs as well as access to Windows applications. The X series also includes HP's ChaiVM embedded Java virtual machine, providing access to applications hosted on Unix and legacy servers.
Oracle is also working on a thin client, so I think we will soon see some competition in the thin client area, where Linux will be getting much more attention, and more important - more Linux development. Who says competition is bad? :)
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HP to release 3 thin clients More

HP to release 3 thin clients

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  • If i'm not mistaken didn't MS actually buy the winframe technology from Citrix to put into terminal server?

    Microsoft actually owns part of Citrix. But that didn't stop them from playing hardball with Citrix. They essentially strongarmed Citrix into giving them their technology, and the reason WinFrame only supports 3.51 is because Microsoft more or less forced Citrix to do so, to avoid competition with WTS, despite the fact that in many ways WinFrame has advantages over WTS.

    Microsoft is deathly afraid that a rise in popularity of products such as WinFrame would jeopardize their ability to force fat clients (bloated with other Microsoft products) onto the desktop.

  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • The Slashdot FAQ doesn't allow comment posting and I think it would be a very good idea if it did. Although the normal type of posting wouldn't work because the comments would pile up overtime and make the feature useless. Perhaps allowing only registered users to post, and periodically deleting -1 comments would be a solution. If anyone likes the idea email Rob or someone who can do something.
  • Getting it working with Linux . . . your problems most likely lie in fonts (At least they always have for me, whether I was connecting XFree to an HP-UX box, or an old Tekterm to XFree). The easiest fix is to run a font server and connect to that.

    --Akeru
  • Yes, WinFrame is NT 3.51 only, but Citrix has now MetaFrame out, that runs on top of NT 4 (I don't know the real differences to NT TSE, but MetaFrame provides Clients not only for Win9x/NT but UNIX (not Linux though)).
  • I've got a dozen HP700RX X-terminals here (i960 processor) that work pretty snazzy. I need to find a decent i960 compiler and linker, and locate some libraries and start programming 700RX-specific apps. :-)

  • Application Servers (Score:3)

    by eric2hill ( 33085 ) <eric@[ ]ck.net ['ija' in gap]> on Friday August 27, 1999 @11:33AM (#1721157) Homepage
    I've just been doing some research on Microshaft Windows NT Terminal Server and Citrix MetaFrame. For a SMALL 5 user installation (capped at 5 users, no more) I'm looking at $3500 in software alone. That's ridiculous. Are there any capabilities within linux to reduce this cost to the small business user? VMWare? WINE? Help!


    Never underestimate the power of stupidity in large groups
  • Random geeks sitting at home don't buy these things to play games or code. Big companies buy them to stick on clueless employees' desks so they can just "get the job done" instead of calling the IT department about their cup-holders being broken.
  • An other advantage of these thin clients is that absence of harddisks and big fans really reduces the noise in an office. Last week I visited a company who did have HP winCE machines all over the place. Never have been in a quieter office and was less tired when I went home.
  • Tell me what is the difference between it and Slashdot FAQ? Second if you care /. so much it's time to get a user name.

    CY

  • It's unaccessable several times a week from Finland after 5pm. During the day it works fine (cause people on the other side are sleepy).

  • I have no idea what they mean by "New brand name" as I have a HP Entria X Terminal from like '94 or something... (Still trying to get it to work with Linux...)
    Must every company (re)announce "new" products just so they can get more PR?
    Using Linux is great, but this isn't new.
  • So, HP's doing the bailing wire and sweat work instead. Maybe I should produce these for companies that don't want to do anything, and compete with HP. :-)
  • 1. Hardware costs are a mere fraction of per
    user computer costs. A machine over 3 years will
    easily have at least 2-3K worth of support costs
    associated with it. Cheap machines are big in
    the home market. The business market really
    doesn't care that much.

    2. These machines are pre built, tested, and
    have a known configuration. Hardware maintanence
    and support is trivial for these things. The
    significant cost of human support is cut to
    a fraction for that of a PC. No HDD means
    that each machine is _completely_ exchangable.
    Imagine when a user has a problem with their box,
    they take it over to the support office, and the
    office gives them another box in 3 minutes,
    and look at the defective one later. That's
    productivity.

    3. Software support costs are cut to the servers
    and servers only.

    --
    Insanity Takes Its Toll. Please Have Exact Change

  • Look, I run networks with hundreds of Unix workstations. Linux is a lot easier to manage than Windows, but the software on the local host still get screwed up, upgrades are still somewhat painful (especially since users have a tendency to turn off their PCs), and it still takes a lot longer to rebuild a Linux system than to power-cycle an NC.

    I'm not saying that NCs are perfect for all applications, but for the simpler stuff (e-mail, web, word processing, spreadsheets, database clients) that has low bandwidth requirements, and where you have a lot of seats, they're great.

    cjs

  • The L and X series use an embedded Linux core and include Netscape Navigator for browser-based access to Java programs
    Oooh, accessing java with Navigator. That'll be successful.
  • how long till i have linux on my watch??
  • It seems that MS might be losing some of the power that it once had with PC manufacturers. With the up and coming power of Linux - and major manufacturers choosing to install and support it as a reliable alternative to win32 products - one has to wonder when Microsoft will start to slash prices on their OS. I do not think it will be too long before MS realizes that NT wont be able to stand up to the pressures of Linux with its current cost/reliability issues are further scrutinized by IT shops in industry.


    www.bluealien.org
  • Embedded Linux on machines from one of the largest computer makers in the world. MS is not gonna like this...
  • Considering that a normal PC is about the same price as those thin clients, what good are these ?

    Why opt for a 700$ machine that can only act as a thin client when you can get a 1000$ PC that is quite a bit more powerful, and can do everything the thin client can ?

    Couldn't they just take their weakest normal PC, remove the floppy and CD-Rom drives, and pre-install thin-client software ? It'd do the same thing, except it'd be equipped with a hard drive for caching... It'd have a faster processor... It'd be far more versatile.
  • The model with windows CE is priced between 500-600 dollars, while the linux ones are under 700.


  • > how long till i have linux on my watch??

    More importantly, "imagine a Beowulf cluster of those" embedded Linux thin clients!

  • Ok, so someone screws up the software on the hard drive of the PC. How long does it take to fix? How long does it take to do the equivalant fix on a thin client (i.e., reboot it)?

    Or say a machine breaks? You just plop in another one, and you know the user won't come back to you saying `I needed stuff I left on my hard drive.'

    cjs

  • Let's see.

    5 legal copies of vmware - $500 ( non commercial version)
    5 legal copies of NT workstation (assuming you want nt workstation) $1345 (full version at $269 a copy you could skim $120 bucks if you just bought licenses on the remaining 4 copies)

    Linux (only because I've never tried vmware on bsd via emulation) - free (or 1.99 per for a cheapbytes cd)

    Grand total in software costs = $1845

    Mind you this is all minus tax and the price on NT workstation I grabbed from an Insight catalog on the desk. This is the configuration a few of our users run. The only reason they use the vmware is for the office software or to run outlook with our shitty exchange server. But since I turned on loverly simap on the exhcange box they can read mail with netscape's mail client.
    As far as hardware, vmware-able machiens should have a bit more power than a standard linux ws would but really memory is where the cost would come in. Machines with 128 megs could handle it fine. At least mine does.
  • Total Cost of Ownership.

    If people can't mess around with their machines, then companies don't have to spend time fixing them. We're talking companies, not home users.

    What do most "normal" workers need to do in an office? Word processing, spreadsheets, etc. If there is an office suite available (such as StarOffice), then that's all they need. No worries about people deleting system files, etc. Just reboot and get a new image.

  • Naaah, it's pretty fast from Poland... ;)

    -jfedor
  • I agree, there won't be any OS market between win95/linux and palm. Not if they don't package it with a 5-button browser only box.

    CY
  • If i'm not mistaken didn't MS actually buy the winframe technology from Citrix to put into terminal server? As far as I know the only way to use NT 4 in this manner is via terminal server? Winframe only supports nt3.51 and down, correct? I know that while I was working for bellsouth dcs, Our remote stores ran winframe and when I asked why we hadn't upgraded them to NT4 (the only reason I asked was that ICVerify had a new version that would not run on nt 3.51 and we really needed to upgrade). Correct me if I'm wrong about the Citrix/MS stuff.

  • Seems like Windows people have just invented an X terminal...

    Amazing! ;)

    -jfedor
  • It depends upon what you want to do. The basic problem you face here is that NT assumes single-user. If you don't want to use Terminal Server then you *will* need 5 copies of NT going. But here are some options.

    If you really want to be able to throw the desktop remotely, look at VNC [att.com].

    If the application that you are interested in can run on Linux (or has a Linux-friendly replacement [corel.com]), you can cheerfully install the application on one Linux box, run multiple copies of VNC server, and get the capabilities of NT Terminal Server with Citrix MetaFrame with the only software cost being the cost of the application. And your uptime will be better, bandwidth usage will be lower, and the result can be used from your choice of OS.

    You don't even need VNC if you are willing to use it from a client that runs X-Windows. Any window can be thrown elsewhere. In a Linux environment *every* machine is the equivalent of NT Terminal Server. But unless you install software locally, Windows will not act as a client.

    VMWare in Linux is mainly useful for dealing with a mixed Windows/Linux environment. With VNC you can throw a window elsewhere. However it will show up as a window containing Linux desktop within which you have a window whose contents are the NT machine. Can you say "blech"? For that set-up I would suggest using straight VNC on NT (unforunately you will then pay hardware rather than software).

    Of course, as I mentioned before, in an all-Linux environment you would have had this functionality without needing additional software or multiple machines.

    Regards,
    Ben
  • Some people would pay for anything that users and admins can't fuck up too much.
  • I agree, sort of. Except for buying a $1000 real PC. Why not pick up a bunch of "obsolete" P90-class machines, strip the HDD's, and use them as diskless X servers? If you know what you're doing, that's an extremely easy/stable solution to the same problem these HP's are supposed to solve.

    And in the above sentence is probably the answer to my question-- IF you know what you're doing. How long till companies start to figure out that paying more for competent admins saves them much more money than they'd save by hiring from the "I just got my MCSE and I'd like $75,000 please" crowd?

  • I have a list of easy features to request, and nowhere to request them. But an ongoing discussion would quickly turn unwieldly. Instead I would prefer to see a link for requests, with responses given and regularly interesting requests with answers returned.

    In case anyone is interested, here are my requests:

    - Allow the <CODE> tag.

    - Replace leading white-space with &nbsp; (allowing indentation to work in Plain Old Text mode). I will even gladly supply the needed regular expression to do this.

    - Add a simpler means of giving this kind of feedback. :-)

    Ben
  • Moderate my post down. I totally missed the point of his question.

    Read the post next time!
    *smack*

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