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Linux Software

Protest over LinuxWorld Penguins 294

Posted by sengan from the do-we-like-penguins? dept.
Here is some more info about the live penguins which appeared at Linux World. Some participants complained about the penguins' small cage and stress due to the number of people around.
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Protest over LinuxWorld Penguins More

Protest over LinuxWorld Penguins

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  • So a six year old kid living in a war zone is someone I need to worry about less than two well fed pets? I don't know if I buy that. PETA has little regard for humans(as exhibited by PETA protestors making kids cry - see the washington post a few years ago) and too much concern for animals(a friend of mine worked for a circus, PETA protested at some of their shows, saying animals were mistreated, yet nothing bad ever happened to said animals). Admittedly, this is a sweeping generalization, but I think most protestors in the US today need to get a grip and worry about the important things. Homelessness, world hunger, disease, and man's inhumanity to man all pop to mind. Saving the pets that don't need saving seems a little trite.

    itachi
  • I've heard we taste like chicken... Other than the cultural taboos, I personally don't see why we shouldn't. Solve overpopulation and unwanted children in one foul swoop without upsetting the right-to-life crowd. Planned parenthood could set up some deal where you can trade you kid to a farmer rather than getting an abortion, then the farmer fattens them up for market. This would work great!

    itachi
  • I saw a show on the Discovery channel recently that POSITIVELY showed that penguins are nervous about people when first around them. After only one week of exposure to people, they didn't care about people at all. This was in context to WILD penguins, in their breeding area. These penguins have obviously been around people for quite some time, so PETA really needs to get a clue. Before being slavering mouthed advocates of "saving the animals", find out your facts first. I'd take a stressed out penguin over a stupid PETA, er, I mean person, any day of the week.
  • The original poster forgot the line where they mention that the PETA-ites worry about the feelings of the animals to the exclusion of worrying about people. Which is the point of the argument, it just sort of got mislaid. And _that_ is a serious flaw in the behavior of said PETA-ites. Please don't argue that PETA-ites don't do this, many do, I'd even say most do. At least with important things. I mean, how many times have you heard of the ambassador of (country of the day for attrocities) got red paint thrown on them? How else could there be such a loud drone of AR protest while so much desperately needed human rights protest never happens?


    itachi
  • ...he's not wearing a red hat. :)

    (I can't BELIEVE I was the first to get that one in.)
  • at the outpouring of heartless indifference so common in the Slashdot community. Anyone critical of your fun is a PETA nut or meddling do gooder, it would seem.

    At this website, the symbol of the penguin represents not Linux, but rather what a cold bunch you are. Sadly, the only warmth found at Slashdot is generated by the myraid, pointless flamewars.

  • PETA [mtd.com] has gone too far.

  • HEY! Don't give Katz any ideas, its enough that we have deal with Roblimo lately... I never thought I would say this, but /. is going down the toilet lately...
  • This is what we Philosophers like to call, in technical terms, a "Bullshit Argument." I'm not intending to sigle out just this poseter, but there are a lot of similar posts to this story.

    What people are saying: The suffering of animals is bad. They are trying to prevent this suffering and in this case they saw penguins (wild, aquatic birds), being kept in small cages and paraded about to large audiences. I think that this is a valid point.

    What people DID NOT say: That this was more important than other atrocities in the world. I would imagine that if 1000 Rawandan's were hacked to death AT THE EXPO, people would sure have raised a stink.

    Ethical issues are not trumped by other unrelated ethical issues. Murder is worse than child abuse, that does not mean that we should ignore child abuse to focus all of our attention on murder. We need to address all ethical issues.

    Yeah, I'm a vegetarian, yeah I think that other animals should not be used for the sole benefit of human animals. Just wanted to get that out of the way before someone tried to point out that anyone who supports animal rights is probably also a communist (a logical fallacy known as a Red Herring by the way).

  • I'd like to know who is responsible for using a living thing as a gimick. It's an insensitive thing to do.

    I absolutely agree with you 100%. Using a living thing as a gimick to lure people into your booth at the show is a really sleazy thing to do.

    Take those nice-lookin' babes with the big breasts and low neck-lines, for example. Fits your model perfectly but I didn't hear anyone complaining about them.

    Lighten up. There are far worse things to get upset about.



    --
    I gave my boss a reality check. It bounced.
  • Amen!!!

    Oh and as a side note I would include uneducated tree huggers along with whiny buttheads and idiots. But you didn't hear that from me ;)
  • Thats what my job is like!
  • Does anyone have some official documentation to this? A SiliconValley.com report on a LinuxWorld conference is not official documentation. Where's the docs?

    The Linux 2.3.13 sources' logo.gif does not sport the change, and neither does Larry Ewing's site.

    This is useless crap to be ignored until and unless this becomes official.
    --------
    "I already have all the latest software."
  • Lighten up. There are far worse things to get upset about.

    Yea, like those "whatever in the hell they were" suited characters at JavaOne.

  • Their cubicle is bigger than mine!




  • While I agree that his comment about Israelis in general was inaccurate, I'm afraid I can't say the same for the Israeli government. The United States has done some pretty bad stuff, but what Israel does, and is still doing, is much worse. At least the U.S. has an executive order barring government agencies from assassinating people, while Israel still often tries to assassinate people (they were caught a few years ago trying to kill somebody they didn't like in Jordan). Not to mention that it was even an issue when an Israeli citizen, who happened to be of an Arab ethnic background, was appointed to a security commission. If that's not racism, what is?
  • Sience has proved that the fish have much less developed nervous systems than we do. The fish me be hurt a bit but its not like if a human were to bite down on a hook, not even close. BTW if it weren't for fisherman, you probably wouldn't be around. Fish has been the staple of many cultural diets throughout history and has helped mankind get where its at today.

  • Brother (Score:1)

    by Ripp ( 17047 )
    What a nation of whiners we are.

    The birds are *professionals* for cryin out loud. With a resume. I suppose it wouldn't have made a difference if they'd hung a big banner underneath the main one reading:

    "No penguins were harmed during this exposition."

    I suppose next we'll get a story by Katz on how the penguins couldn't get in to see South Park, either.

    "Penguins have rights, too! Waaaaaah!"
  • Um, so there were two guys in penguin suits floating around the show. One of them was a beat-up rental suit that Seagate had someone wearing. The other was a very droopy lookin' tux that Penguin Computing had someone wearing -it looked depressed. Both the guys in penguin suits were pretty pathetic.
  • Personally, i wouldn't mind being the center of attention everywhere i went and getting free food to boot. But then again, i'm not a penguin... last time i checked, anyway...

  • Vegan and proud! (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As a vegetarian, I am appalled at all the smelt being killed just to keep these two lousy penguins fat and happy! I say stop all fish exploitation now! Feeding fish to penguins is MURDER!

    By the way, I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals so much. I'm a vegetarian because I really hate plants!

  • Stress? Small cage? Jesus, had I known it woulda been like that, I'da suggested we put Bill Gates in there (next to a bowl full of tomatoes.

    People. Sheesh.
  • hmm, you beat me to this one, hehe
  • Actually, it seems like most Microsoft fans are trolls... :-)

  • Looks like wildlife activists are getting just a bit too carried away... What could be better for a penguin than to be well-fed and cared for and near hundreds of Linux boxes?
  • Self proclaimed animal rights activists, religious vindicates and Linux advocates...

    They're all the same: Only a miniscule percentage of them have all the facts.
  • No need to worry. The penguins will evolve some wire cutters for hands in due time. Then they can cut their way through the cage.

  • They're probably getting fed fish and getting their tummies rubbed, kickin' back enjoying Linus' speech n stuff. But I'll bet they do think it's a bit warm there, you know, without any glaciers to lay down on....

  • Look kids, I love animals. I have a house full of rescue animals. I also took the time to wander over there several times and talk to the trainer. This woman is simply passionate about those animals. They have a 1000 gallon swimming pool and a concrete house in her backyard. They seem to have better lodgings than many of my friends. The animals were just fine. They got regular breaks and tons of fish.

    I talked to quite a number of people at the show who were worried about the penguins and not a single on had taken the time to find out for themselves how the penguins were. Good Grief!
  • Or the time they threw turkeys out of the helicopter cuz they thot they could fly?

    Actually wild turkeys can fly (not all that well though), however, domestic turkeys generally can't. Wild turkeys are also intelligent (as anyone who has tried to hunt them could attest) while domestic turkeys are one of the stupidest animals you will find on a farm.

  • Bad Idea (Score:1)

    by kmb ( 56194 )
    I admit that I'm pretty soft on animals, even though I think PETA perhaps goes too far sometimes. Live penguins in cages, I mean, it would have been funnier and more PC (in a good way) and still apropos if they had had two guys in penguin suits doing the tricks. Think about it. Even Microsoft doesn't bring their caged rats, er, I mean, programmers to shows. Just the free-range ones.
  • "Look kids, I love animals. I have a house full of rescue animals. I also took the time to wander over there several times and talk to the trainer. This woman is simply passionate about those animals. They have a 1000 gallon swimming pool and a concrete house in her backyard. They seem to have better lodgings than many of my friends. The animals were just fine. They got regular breaks and tons of fish. "

    1000 gallons? Where I grew up we had a people swimming pool that was 30,000 gals, and even that wouldn't seem large enough to keep a penguin happy. I agree, leave the animals out of the people events, they do not want to be there, I guarantee it. In fact, most people would not want to be there, free food or otherwise...maybe free beer...did they give the penguins beer?

    Chris
  • I second that opinion.

    Whenever he get ranters block he looks for stories with 500+ comments and then writes his own, calls it an article, and pisses off all the Katz haters. (Me? I like dogs...)
  • If it weren't for the creationist bilge we've been getting in the recent evolution stories, I'd think this guy was a spoof.

    Anonymous Coward (and how appropriate that designation is here), I don't think you would know compassion if it hit you on the road to Damascus.

  • Hey, I AM a vegetarian. BUT I think PETA should get that stick up their ass and stop trying to force their belifs on other people. This sounds like what the church did in the middle ages, when you think about it (give or take a few deaths). The Church made people be Christian (or Catholic - - whatever...) or they were driven out. In the same sense, we ALL have to be tree huggers or we WILL be ridiculed. The only reason I became a vegetarian was to test my will power, but right about now some raw penguin flesh sounds yummy.

  • Nope! (Score:2)

    by jd ( 1658 )
    Daemon is NOT the same as Demon. Demons are things that run around, wrecking havoc. Daemon is basically the old name for angel, according to the descriptions given in the Old Testament.

    (Of course, if you're a Whovian, a daemon is also a being who is enormously wise, causes massive temperature changes, and likes mucking about in small villages.)

  • ...the difference is, that hot place you are talking about is the daemons natural habitat.

  • and no i dont eat them

    I am not ashamed to say that I eat animals. When someone comes up with a good reason why dogs, cats, wolves, coyotes, tigers, bears, etc. should feel guilty for eating other animals, then I will rethink my position. Heck, a lot of PETAphiles don't even know that pigs are not herbivores -- far from it, they are occasionally cannibalistic. The reason you have to be so careful about properly cooking pork is because our digestive system is so similar to that of pigs that we are susceptible to the same intestinal tract parasites. A lot of PETAphiles also assume that humans are the only primates that are omnivorous, which is also incorrect. It is common for many other primate species to eat insects (and yes, bugs do count as animals), and some large primates will occasionally catch and eat other types of animals.

    If I was intended to eat only plants, I would probably have no canine teeth and two stomaches.

  • Tux and his friends can not be caged for long. They will rise from the dust of commercial software, spread their wings and soar (kernel 3.0 probably) over the corpses of those monopolists who would make them into a display.

    As for the birds at the expo - I'd like to know who is responsible for using a living thing as a gimick. It's an insensitive thing to do. The people who would do this, would certainly not care much about their customers or the quality of their products.

    Cutsey gimicks are great. Stuffed and inflatible Tux caricatures are emblematic of Linux, and the Tux logo is our banner. But please, let's show some respect for living things, and let's - if nothing else - not make ourselves targets for unnecessary criticism by proxy.

    I'm not one to chain myself to an oak tree, but really, using a live animal in a display/advert shows a particular marketting mentality which does not benefit Linux or the Open Source movement in the least. Those of you at the expo, please take a minute to reflect about the impact of hype, about whom it harms, and make your opinion known to the penguin handlers.
  • Also next time you see a animal rights fanatic, take a *good* look at thier shoes, belt, purse and wallet. Then feel free to point out their hypocrisy.
    Before you get all excited over my "leather" jacket or belt - they ain't really leather, although several people have been fooled. See my Leather Alterniteves FAQ [infamous.net].

    If you seek logical arguments for AR, check the following:

  • it warms my heart to know that you will die so much sooner because of your crappie diet.. For a second there, I thought I would have to deal with you forever

    It is this kind of attitude that makes the sane look upon the PETAphiles as the loons they are.

    For your information, roasted bird (as opposed to deep fried anyway), as part of an otherwise balanced diet is one of the healthiest things you can eat.

    I guarantee that if someone was eat nothing but deep fried breaded tofu, potato chips and dougnuts and other similar stuff that is all-vegetable that they would be less healthy than someone who eats a balanced omnivorous diet. There are a lot of all-vegetable foods that are full of fat and empty calories.

    A lot of the people I know that are vegetarian aren't that healthy (most of them are major-league hypocondriacs), nor do I see any real evidence that they really have significantly longer lifespans than other people who live in the same area that eat a sensible diet including meat.

  • From Jargon File (4.0.0/24 July 1996) [jargon]:

    daemon /day'mn/ or /dee'mn/ /n./ [from the mythological meaning, later rationalized as the acronym `Disk And Execution MONitor'] A program that is not invoked explicitly, but lies dormant waiting for some condition(s) to occur.
  • Right on. Well said. Animal activists tend to go to far, including mass propoganda.

    News flash, seals can't cry. They want you to think so though.

    Actually, I find it arrogant that these activists somehow consider humans to be "above nature." We are animals like any other. A lion will eat an antelope. A dog and cat can be friendly and play with each other. Ditto for a hippo and a bird.

    News flash 2, we are naturally occurring and it's quite arrogant to think otherwise. A lion will eat a human if it's hungry enough.
  • oh wait, you said "if"

    (a joke is just a toke with a j)
  • If any penguins ever shit on your car, I will personally come and clean it off.
  • >did they give the penguins beer?

    Yes, but then someone slapped the GPL on it, and they had to share :)
  • I heard the rumor that the penguins were lethargic, unhappy, and being mistreated. So, instead of just going blithely along with rumor, I went to find out for myself.

    I spent about 20 minutes talking with the lady about her little friend. Watching the animal's reactions, etc. The penguin was fine. Perhaps not as happy as she would have been, being at home with her mate, but she was alert and friendly.

    She (the penguin) was born and raised in captivity. Her handler has been her only owner, and she was very affentionate with her handler, preening her while we were standing there. The penguin (I think her name was Lucy) is about 12 years old, and is one of 6 penguins that the lady takes care of. She takes the penguins to educational talks, and the like, so the animals are well used to the crowd. Lucy was quite OK with various strangers reaching out and petting her.

    Now, when you think an animal is frightened or unhappy, you can look for body language that is very similar to a human's. Lucy evidenced no signs of unease. She was not shaking, cringing, crying out or poking at all the people around her. She was snuggled into her handler's arms, and preening her. Lucy's feathers were not mangy, broken, or dirty, nor were there any missing patches of feathers from the 'stress.' She was very alert, and comfortable.

    Yeah, there are reasons to leave animals in the wild. However, there are also advantages to captivity. Lucy (and her pals at home) should live to be 25-30 years old. The same can't be said for her wild cousins. She has a safe, stable home. A concrete house all to herself, with a beachj and water? Who wouldn't go for that?

    I appreciated the experience. From my observations, the animal was well treated and loved. I see nothing wrong here.

  • That's not the point! It doesn't matter that THIS
    penguin is used to crowds, etc.

    The point is, that animals don't belong there! The only place they belong is nature, living in freedom without being caged ...

  • BTW - ever bite down on one of those hooks of yours? You know, just to know what it's like? I bet you don't have the guts to do what you think is no big deal.

    Yes, biting down on a sharp hook is probably very uncomfortable to a fish.

    But it's the repeated clubbing on the head you have to administer to make the things stop flopping about in the boat that must really hurt.

  • I mean, were they, Open Source Penguins?

    Sheesh, stick with the stuffed penguins, guys ... being locked up in a cage surrounded by Linux geeks is something we should only do to E*Trade executives ...

  • Okay, I can go with that, as long as I get to be free too.

    I'm an animal, so are you. You're made of organic substences, right? So, we should all go back to the wild, abandon our computers, and gather small fruits and insects for our supper. Wouldn't that be quaint?

    If a superior being came to earth, hell yeah he/she could do whatever they wanted to us. Don't give me that "noble cause" stuff.

    You're here to be used, and so are they. Don't think so? Ask your boss.

    later
  • Yeah, well, I'll conjure Adhurartasia on your ass.

  • It's boring, and stupid, and fish tastes nasty too.

    My philosophy:

    "If you're gonna kill it, you should eat it." Jeffery Dahlmer took it a little far, IMO.

  • So the difference between the Linux crowd and the mainstream is that they use half-naked chicks to promote their wares at trade shows and we use innocent animals? I'm sooooo proud...

    Ade_
    /
  • That does not logically follow. While I have never witnessed a Tom Cat doing this, I know that many mammals do - lions being one of them. The important thing is why they do this. Since I know about lions, I'll use them as the example. A pride is ruled by one male lion - his job is to patrol the territory of the pride and repel intruders. In exchange he gets to mate with any in estrus female within the pride. For the females, this means that there is a high likelyhood of their ofspring living to adulthood. Competition among male lions is extremly strong. If you have a pride, you are constatly trying to fight off young males who have an extremly stong desire to take your pride away, since this would allow them to have sex and pass on their genes. It would also mean that they don't have to hunt for their own food. While the females will sometimes repel competing males, their general attitude is to the most powerfull of lions. So if a more powerfull competitor appears, they don't argue much when he runs off their current male. Again, their motivation stemming from a desire to see their ofspring survive to adulthood. When a lion takes over a pride, the females with cubs will not come into estrus until their cubs reach adolesence. Since that could be more than a year off, it makes biological sence for a new male to kill all cubs. Waiting for a female to finish rearing her cubs, come back into estrus and then rear his own cubs is a great risk. He may not be able to keep this pride long enough to see his ofspring reach adulthood. Thus all cubs will be killed - biologically encouraging the females to come back into estrus. This allows the male to immediately begin producing his own ofspring. While this seems cruel by our standard, it is not senseless killing. Killing in order to pass on your genes is not the same thing as killing because you enjoy it. Jeffery Dahmer killed because he enjoyed it.
  • After reading the article I was left wondering how the person who said

    ``At first it looked cute, then I looked at the animal's face and it looked like a deer caught in
    oncoming headlights,'' said spectator Brooke Ezzat. Added Lynn Hamilton, who works at NEC
    Corp.: ``These people must be living in a cave somewhere. The animal was terrified.''

    knew the difference between a penguin who is terrified or just constipated?

  • That does not logically follow.

    While I have never witnessed a Tom Cat doing this, I know that many mammals do - lions being one of them. The important thing is why they do this. Since I know about lions, I'll use them as the example.

    A pride is ruled by one male lion - his job is to patrol the territory of the pride and repel intruders. In exchange he gets to mate with any in estrus female within the pride. For the females, this means that there is a high likelyhood of their ofspring living to adulthood.

    Competition among male lions is extremly strong. If you have a pride, you are constatly trying to fight off young males who have an extremly stong desire to take your pride away, since this would allow them to have sex and pass on their genes. It would also mean that they don't have to hunt for their own food.

    While the females will sometimes repel competing males, their general attitude is to the most powerfull of lions. So if a more powerfull competitor appears, they don't argue much when he runs off their current male. Again, their motivation stemming from a desire to see their ofspring survive to adulthood.

    When a lion takes over a pride, the females with cubs will not come into estrus until their cubs reach adolesence. Since that could be more than a year off, it makes biological sence for a new male to kill all cubs. Waiting for a female to finish rearing her cubs, come back into estrus and then rear his own cubs is a great risk. He may not be able to keep this pride long enough to see his ofspring reach adulthood. Thus all cubs will be killed - biologically encouraging the females to come back into estrus. This allows the male to immediately begin producing his own ofspring.

    While this seems cruel by our standard, it is not senseless killing. Killing in order to pass on your genes is not the same thing as killing because you enjoy it. Jeffery Dahmer killed because he enjoyed it.
  • sure i feel sorry for animals, but there are a ton of us techies that have to work in deplorable lab conditions. where is our voice??

    Well, form a union. If you are not courageous enough to do that, shut up.

    --

  • ...the way they have been treated has been fowl.


    F*ck Kevin, FREE 'DA BOIDS!!

    :)





  • He he, well, you were being sarcastic but you are partially right. Fish do at least feel pain. Would you fish cute things like puppies or babies with hook and bait? But fish are ok? The difference? they can't scream. They don't bleed.

    (I'm really a vegan, all the "They are not human so they don't count" is just raceist (spieciesist) BS.)
  • Cool. I was wondering what the names of the Penguins were. We know one would have to be Tux.

    So one was called TLC too? Was that the one that always wolfed down the fish? Greedy little thing.

    But now we know why it needed so much energy.
  • Aw, they probably tried to bite Linus during his speech.
  • Sportsmen are very important to the conservation movement.

    That's why statistics are paraded around about things like: How many more white-tailed-deer there are in northen Minnesota now than there were before the 'Sportsmen' made sure they were managed. Of course, this sort of misses the point that there were NO white-tailed deer in Northern Minnesota (there were Caribou, now there are no Caribou).

    Sportsmen generally celebrate and support the existence of rat-like species that hover around man, and which happen to be good sport to kill and eat. The common rabbits and White-tailed deer are examples of said rat-like species.
  • > Stop it, Ford. You're turning into a penguin.

    > Couldn't resist... anyone why can name the sector they were picked up in wins a lifetime supply of o2.

    ZZ-9-Plural-Z-Alpha.

    I want it in 2 Liter bottles.
  • Catch and release guarantees that every fish gets an opportunity to be dragged head-first out of the water at high speed at least several times in it's life.

    It's more humane that way.
  • Bringing live animals to a convention where 1000's of people are going to be at an unsually short distance from these penguins is not bright. These animals didn't have a say in the matter and suffered the consequences if scared. Were they scared? Some say no, and that there is no way of knowing either way. My dad is an ornothologist and he pretty much declared this a nice terrorization of these poor birds. I'm not saying it was purposeful, but perhaps in the future, one will be more thoughtful to the mascots, more so than American Varsity boys are to their rivals'.
  • My creator isn't dog (or god, or however you wish to spell it). But you're entitled to your interpretation of the past.

    Your attitude about what it means to be an American citizen belongs in a theocracy like Iran. Go there now, and fight some infidels. We don't need a bunch of priests shaking their rattles around the place here in the United States.

    You can stay if you promise to be nice. But if you insist on engaging in public acts with your holy whore, we will have to ask you to leave.

    Christianity is based on sadomasochistic ritual and imagery anyhow. The wasted young body of Christ on the cross. Think about it next time you see one of those most pogniant crucifixes. It gets the Nuns all bothered, to be certain.
  • Ok, while it is good to see many concientious people voicing their concerns, a lot of extraneous non-issues are being brought up. While there is a lot we don't know about the animal kingdom in general (humans included) a good bit is know through Veteranary research, Animal Husbadry, Professional Animal Trainers and Behavioral Psychologist just to name a few. To both PETA members and their detractors - I recommend you spent time learning about (scientifically and empically), getting to know and caring for a non-human individual.

    Below are some important issues for consideration.

    1) Were the penguins captured in the wild or were they raised in captivity. If they were raised by humans in captivity, humans are what they identify with. They are no longer wild and they wouldn't know how to live in an wild colony. This is neither bad not good, just a fact of their existence like being born in Oshkosh or San Pedro.

    2) If they have been raised by caring and inteligent human, then they have formed a cross-species bond. Thus, these penguins are most comfortable when they are with their family (read owner, caregiver, provider, etc).

    3) While zoos are not natual habitats, there things that make artificial habitats comfortable - even desireable to animals. Much of it is species and individual specific and little of it has to do with what we think it should look like. Setting up a minature SeaWorld may make you feel more comfortable but it doesn't mean that the penguin would appreciate it at all. It takes a person who is experienced both with the species and with the individual to determine what is needed to make the individual animal happy. For most animals, it starts with food, shelter and being near other creatures you reguard as caring and familiar. While a pen may seem small by human standards, the important consideration is the animal's comfort. A responsible, caring owner would be albe to tell if their animal was cramped and uncomfortable.

    4) While the above is true animals that are stressed do exibit some common behaviors - pacing, refusal to eat, aggressiveness. Pacing, which many animals held in old zoos have exibited, is a sign of bordom. But there is a difference between pacing - in which an animal seems locked in a trance, and walking about looking at your surroundings.

    Agressiveness to a stranger can be many things but aggressivness to ones owner is a definite sign of a problem. If an animal is not exibiting fight or flight behavior with their caretaker, then they are probably well cared for.

    5) I do recognize these penguines. They are a breed commonly refered to as the Jack-Ass penguine. While in the wild they spend a lot of time in the ocean, they form their breeding colonies on the Western coast of equitorial Africa. Thus they were probably quite comfortable with the temperature in an air conditioned convention center.

    6) If it is true that these penguins have been working in movies and entertainment with their owner for a long time then they are accustomed to being around strangers. The important thing to them is that their owner (someone they know and trust) was there and signaled to them (through voice patterns and body language) that everything was OK. Also, if they have been working with their owner for a long time, they must trust and feel comfortable with her: unhappy animals don't work.



  • Definitely lame. Poor guys.
  • Errr, ummm.... how much is '98 retailing for again? Just outa curiosity, ya'unnerstand.

    oh and ah, how scanty are you talking about?

  • Your "god" sounds like a judgemental, arrogant, psychotic, psychopathic, grade-A asshole.

    I wouldn't want to meet someone as vindictive, vile, cruel, dysfunctional and emotionally co-dependent as that on a dark night. Not without serious body armour, a division of tanks, and plenty of water cannons filled with holy water. And possibly some garlic.

    Your idea of God is closer to a vampire than that depicted in the Christian teachings. Face the truth. You're more a member of a Vampire Cult than a Christian.

    "Judge not, lest you be judged." Remember that? "Take not the mote out of your brother's eye, until you have removed the stick from your own eye."

    Doesn't sound like the sort of person who goes around saying "All liberals are cold, cruel and greed-obsessed", does it? Sounds more like the sort of person who might live with and around liberals, experiencing their lives for himself, and where alternatives to those lives existed, DEMONSTRATED, NOT SHAMED.

    Shame is EVIL, a monsterous vermin in society. That is far more evil than a comic-book sketch or a penguin could ever be.

  • Um... the trainers are professionals. The birds are slaves.

  • If PETA would just screw their heads on straight, along with all those other "animal rights activists" (not all of them, just the extremists like PETA and those that give 'animal rights' a bad name), we wouldn't have to put up with articles like this.

    Read the article. They were trained penguins. They were used to doing stupid tricks and shows like this -- heck, they were even penguins in Batman Returns! It's not like someone just ran to Seaworld California and stole a couple of the warm-climate penguins from the area outside the penguin complex.

    And of course, here comes PETA, the same people who dress up as a Tuna fish and go to a Houston, TX elementary school to tell kids not to eat fish or meat... And plague hunters, without whom the animal population would become to large and die off anyway... Who are well beyond liberal... The fact of the matter is that PETA would come to my house and say that my having a Guinea Pig in a cage is wrong, and that it should be a free-range guinea pig.

    How on earth you can be a nerd/geek and a PETA member, I'm not quite sure... All my fellow nerds/geeks think clearly, which is something PETA oft demonstrates they simply cannot do. They complain about sharp fishing hooks, not having vegetarian meals in school cafeterias (which there ARE, if you ask for them), how animals shouldn't be caged, how it's wrong to eat meat, how hunting hurts animals and we should leave them alone, et. al. They can take their vegan lips and kiss my penguin-loving butt.

    Not all penguins live in cold climates, and when they are trained penguins, they're undoubtedly used to their cage. These aren't wild penguins who just got shoved in a cage. The one thing that really bugs me about this irresponsible piece of journalism is how they used showgoers' thoughts on the penguins. Do you think an NEC rep is really going to know what a frightened penguin looks like? Give me a break.

  • Re:PETA (Score:1)

    by gas ( 2801 )
    There is idots everywhere. Just look at Slashdot... But don't confuse them with what it's really about. The huge amount of suffering stupid prejudices causes is real and the ethics and arguments behind the right to equal consideration of interests for sentient beings it is rock solid.

  • "under the protection of God's Law -- and that is the only law any white man is bound to obey"

    Interesting. What laws do women, children, and people of color have to obey? Let me guess -- whatever the "white men" say?

    If there is a god, and they were just, then each person would be sent to the worst afterlife they have ever wished on another.

    Jim
  • The Penquins looked unhappy because they did not get in on the ground floor of the recent Red Hat stock IPO. I cant say that I feel much better! cheers, gbs
  • This all depends on which _god_ you mean. Not everyone worships a cult leader from the worst part of the Roman Empire. Ask different cultures, get different answers :)

    As for humans not eating animals... I've got some bad news for you, sunshine. You are an animal! Homo sapien sapien to be exact. You also happen to be an omnivore. So yes, you were build to eat meat. Depending on what culture you come from, that may happen to include humans.

    Back to the topic. PETA seems to have a nack for "helping" animals when they don't know anything about them. Take the octopus in LA, for instance. The local PETA chapter complained that it's cage was too small. It was made up of lairs, crevices, etc. But none of the PETA-ers bothered to read up on it and find out that THAT'S WHERE OCTOPI LIVE IN THE WILD!!!

    Ignorance is no excuse, but certainly seems to be a motivator.
  • What is this?:
    Linux creator Linus Torvalds recently pronounced a drawing of a fat penguin wearing a blue tie the official symbol of Linux.

    Since when does Tux wear a "Blue Tie"? I know the LWE Penguin may sport one, but it is not the "official symbol." Also, this didn't happen "recently." Do journalist double-check any facts anymore?


    +--
    stack. the off .sig this pop I as Watch
  • They would, I'm sure, but Nyarlothotep and Cthulhu are all booked up until Jan 1, 2000. :)

    (They've one -hell- of a New Year's party they have planned...)

  • After two years of being involved with this community I've had enough. I've witnessed the Linux community go from a intelligent one to a group of teenagers ranting about something they don't have the first clue about. This just tips the iceberg!

    I don't belong to PETA but I probably should. Why, cause I care for animals more than most of the worthless humans on this cursed planet. I really expected more from this community! Would Linus agree to this? If he would, than fuck him (obviously no better than the rest of the idiots on this planet).

    To all those bitching about the ppl in Rawanda and stuff, I say too bad. Earth is too crowded as it is. I know "But what if you were in that situation?". To answer: I would die! Why? Overpopulation will kill us all anyway at this rate, and our animal friends! No need to take them out with us. They were here far before us and I really hope they are here long after us! And to think I wanted to go?!

    And if my spelling is wrong, I don't care. I'm a CS student, not a fucking english major!
  • I'm no PETA nut, but I don't think any kind of animals, especially our beloved pengies, are toys or playthings for people. Whoever had the bright idea of bringing live penguins to LinuxWorld did not think this thing through. As another poster has suggested, humans in a penguin suit would have been much more appropriate.

    The cage does look small, and I imagine the animals are subject to a lot of unhealthy stress being gawked at and handled by presumably hundreds of people. No, they probably won't die from it, but that's not the point. It simply was a bad idea and that is not an appropriate environment for wild animals.

    Please afford our flightless feathered friends a small amount of respect.

  • Trained penguins?! Ok, I wanna trained human. She will do my bidding at the drop of a hat, and if not I will beat and rape here into submission! Sound fair, she's just a trained human after all. Wake up people!
  • As long as they're not in Kansas...
  • Of course, they still spit, bite, and otherwise are ornery. Also very useful. Perfect mascot for Perl (grin).
  • I disagree. I have no clue where you guys are getting your information, but I for one have never heard of PETA members shooting people with paintguns and such. If they are, good! Why would some old lady NEED a fur coat?! Why must we test on animals when there are tons of better alternatives? Why should we eat meat when vegetarianism would allow us to feed more people on this overpopulated planet? Because people are too busy eating Big Macs and watching Jerry Springer to give a rats fart about anything but what kind of beer they are going to drink that night. I believe this is why PETA acts in such extreme ways, people don't listen otherwise.
  • i appreciate people's concern over animals but sometimes it gets out of hand. I never did understnad why people go nuts-O over animals when there are so many other more important things to protest. dont get me wrong, i love animals, and i love to help them, and no i dont eat them, but when you pick a cause to fight you should pick a good one. not to say that the little ones should be ignored, but you will accomplish much more by choosing a good fight. that being said, people should complain about rape, murder, theft, starvation, education, polution, and tabloids before they bring up penguins.

    happy friday the 13th!

  • I can see where they're complaining. Penguins may be pretty good around people but they are still wild animals. It's just plain tacky to put them in a little cage like that with newspapers on the ground and put them up for display. If they wanted to have a real show and not piss of the greenpeace types they really should have set up a miniature version of the penguin habitat at Sea World (like a big terrarium/aquarium with a pool and rocks and ice and stuff) Now *that* would be classy.

  • A) I dont think the penguins endured any severe hardships. As someone already pointed out, these are trained penguins who apparently do this sort of crap fairly often.

    B) I also dont think they belonged at the conference to begin with..Sometimes cute==stupid. By doing something as boneheaded as bringing live penguins to a convention you're *inviting* people to make accusations that youre mistreating the animals. I guess you cant expect people who make money off of parading penguins around at conventions to have enough intelligence to understand that concept, however.

    Lets just hope this doesnt repeat itself at the next show.

    Bowie J. Poag

  • Re:PETA (Score:1)

    by demon ( 1039 )
    Actually, you might be referring to People Eating Tasty Animals, which I might not mind becoming a member of myself. :)
  • I imagine the PETA people would be none too happy about "GNU STABS".

  • Re:PETA (Score:1)

    by acb ( 2797 )
    "If we're not supposed to eat animals, why are they made of meat?"
  • I think the difference is that there is something we can do about it. When you see something going on that you think is wrong (I have no complaint about the penguin thing, but if I did...) and you think calling PETA would help then go for it. I don't see what you could do about the Rawanda thing except maybe writing your politicians. Yeah that will do a lot of good.
  • And the phrase "We're not in Kansas anymore" takes on a completely new meaning.

  • Jackass Penguins for chrissake! (Score:3)

    by pjones ( 10800 ) on Friday August 13, 1999 @10:31AM (#1747473) Homepage
    Those little buggers are jackass penguins from South Africa. In earlier times on the Cape, they were threatened by extinction because they were too social and too unafraid of humans. Hundreds of them would eat garbage then surround human camps honking like jackasses (they are very loud) demaning more food until some mad sailor unable to sleep went out and whacked a few hundred (I am not condoning this behavior). I ran into a little colony of maybe 25 in SA back in 1996 and they were completely unfraid of humans still (these were wild jackies).
    They are thought in SA (as I hope my tale tells) to cause stress--not have much stress themselves.
    Remind you of any humans in open source?
  • ...otherwise the penguins might escape, and then grow to gigantic size. I've seen pictures [kmfms.com] of what giant penguins do to Microsoft employees. It's not pretty, and knowing Microsoft's lawyers, we'd have a hell of a lawsuit on their hands.

    And gods help eTrade if the penguins didn't get to participate in the Red Hat IPO.

  • What about the BSD mascot? Isn't the little daemon forced to live in a place where it is excessively hot? Haven't fire and brimstone been found to be cancerous?

    /* No, I'm not condoning cruelty to animals or belittling the objections of animal advocates. */
  • (In my best Jon Katz style)
    Geeks are commonly thought to be a kind, thoughtful group. Because they endure so much hatred and repression, they learn first-hand how it feels. Many geeks are vegetarians. Some are avowed pacifists with a deep aversion to America's growing culture of violence promoted by the mass media and the NRA. The Linux World Expo provided an opportunity for the intellectually superior to get together and demonstrate their kindness and overwhelming urge to share.

    Just don't tell that to the penguins.

    -- Anyway, you get the idea.

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