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GNOME GUI Input Devices Linux

Middle-Click Paste? Not For Long 729

Posted by timothy
from the sometimes-it's-hard-to-love-you-gnome dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Select to copy and middle-click to paste. That's very convenient usability feature associated with UNIX graphical environments. But it is confusing for new users, so the ability to middle-click paste was briefly removed from GNOME 3.10. It was restored few days later, but with clear message: middle-click paste will be permanently removed from next GNOME version." I hope that "we'll defer this change until the next cycle" also means that it's getting re-thought, rather than just delayed.
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Middle-Click Paste? Not For Long

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  • by CajunArson (465943) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:26AM (#44933537) Journal

    The GNOME guys are just jealous of Microsoft taking away the user interface elements that people were used to and they want to show that Open Source can do just a good a job of screwing up an interface as those big-bad corporate types!

  • FUCK OFF (Score:3, Insightful)

    by serviscope_minor (664417) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:29AM (#44933597) Journal

    Seriously, these guys need to just fuck off.

    Linux is a very nice system, or was until they got their hands on it.

    Now it's becoming a cheap-ass knockoff of some nasty hybrid of OSX and Windows with all the unique and useful features removed.

    Seriously guys, if you want MacOS just buy a fucking Mac and stop breaking shit in Linux.

    • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:5, Informative)

      by somersault (912633) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:34AM (#44933695) Homepage Journal

      They're breaking Gnome, not Linux. The nice thing about Linux is that you can configure everything exactly how you want it. Maybe try MATE [mate-desktop.org]?

      • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:4, Informative)

        by serviscope_minor (664417) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:45AM (#44933959) Journal

        They're breaking Gnome, not Linux. The nice thing about Linux is that you can configure everything exactly how you want it. Maybe try MATE?

        Yeah, I know Gnome isn't all of Linux, but it has a lot of influence and a lot of popular programs are tied into the infrastructure. This is why so many programs seem to have forgotten the concept of cwd recently.

        Other than that, I'll stick with FVWM.

        • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:4, Funny)

          by myowntrueself (607117) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:10AM (#44934521)

          They're breaking Gnome, not Linux. The nice thing about Linux is that you can configure everything exactly how you want it. Maybe try MATE?

          Yeah, I know Gnome isn't all of Linux, but it has a lot of influence and a lot of popular programs are tied into the infrastructure. This is why so many programs seem to have forgotten the concept of cwd recently.

          Other than that, I'll stick with FVWM.

          A direct descendant of TWM!

          • I started with twm at DEC (there was a decwindows version). then tvtwm. then fvwm. and I've been using fvwm for over 20 yrs now (or it sure seems like it).

            I try 'desktops' from time to time but they don't really give me much beyond managing windows. you know, the thing that fvwm does well enough and with 1/10 the memory and cpu.

            • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:4, Insightful)

              by Coryoth (254751) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:41AM (#44936319) Homepage Journal

              I try 'desktops' from time to time but they don't really give me much beyond managing windows. you know, the thing that fvwm does well enough and with 1/10 the memory and cpu.

              A lot of 'desktops' these days are things you don't see immediately; the toolkits, internationalization/localization, canvases, setting centralization and management, advanced font handling, notification plumbing etc. that most GUI applications make use of these days (from one desktop or another). Presuming you're using apps other than xterm (and perhaps you are not) you are actually making use of most of this stuff; the part of the `desktop`you`re not using is simply the window manager and the panels which are, ultimately, the tip of the iceberg.

      • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:5, Insightful)

        by damicatz (711271) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:51AM (#44934121)

        No, they are breaking Linux.

        The GNOME people have managed to invade several core projects such as udev and have been busy working to integrate them with GNOME. In addition, they are trying to push the GNOME-centric Wayland to replace X.

        Removing middle click paste is just the latest example of their arrogance. The GNOME developers generally adopt the attitude that the user is an idiot who can't wipe their own ass without one of them to help. Anytime you complain about a removed feature you are either "using it wrong" or GNOME was "not designed for users who wish to do X". If they kept to their own little corner, I would not have as much of a problem but they are doing their damnedest to turn the entire Linux ecosystem into one giant mess without any regards for the UNIX philosophy or even compatibility with other *nix systems such as the BSDs.

      • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:4, Informative)

        by skids (119237) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:50AM (#44936487) Homepage

        No, the mentality prevalent in GNOME is pretty much breaking the OS and other upstream projects they touch as well. Perhaps not the kernel proper, since those devs are hardcore, but that's not all we mean when we say "linux" these days. It's probably not GNOME's "fault" as much as that's just where things tend to come to a head; it's a hotspot of non-unix-like inclinations.

        (I say this after going through huge trouble to uncouple JACK from the display system/DBUS and restore it to it's proper place as a daemon. Unfortunately this gets harder every year because contributers to projects like JACK seem to more and more often view everything through the desktop lens and fail to realize that on a UNIX-like system securing a soundcard with a few DRM/SHM regions for shared use by the system and multiple users should be childsplay.)

    • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:5, Insightful)

      by KiloByte (825081) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:39AM (#44933837)

      There is one problem: for historic reasons, most distributions install Gnome by default. This needs to be fixed, badly.

      • by idontgno (624372)

        Actually, it needs to be fixed, well.

        Installing Gnome is an example of fixing something badly.

        OTOH, installing Windows is an example of breaking something. Whether you consider it doing this well or badly is subject to debate.

      • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:5, Funny)

        by serviscope_minor (664417) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:02AM (#44934329) Journal

        There is one problem: for historic reasons, most distributions install Gnome by default. This needs to be fixed, badly.

        Well, it seems the folks over at GNOME are trying as hard as they can to get it fixed...

    • by SirGarlon (845873) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:40AM (#44933845)

      Two questions:

      1) How many "new users" did they actually talk to?

      2) How many GNOME users are there, and of those users, how many are "new"?

      It sounds to me like they're removing a feature that millions of people use, on a whim.

      • by sjames (1099) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:48AM (#44934033) Homepage

        And that's why I'm done with Gnome. They keep doing stupid things and trying to tell me it's for my own good.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by geek (5680)

        Two questions:

        1) How many "new users" did they actually talk to?

        Zero. They are however losing a lot of "old" users

        2) How many GNOME users are there, and of those users, how many are "new"?

        Very few. Considering Linux's low desktop market share and the diverse number of DE's I would guess GNOME's userbase to be slightly larger than the number of developers creating it.

        It sounds to me like they're removing a feature that millions of people use, on a whim.

        I wouldn't say millions. Maybe thousands but certainly not millions. Most people have moved to the ctrl+c and ctrl+v mechanism because it apes Windows and MacOSX. I used to use middle click a lot back in the 90's but ctrl+c is now simpler for me to use since I bounce between platf

        • by fwarren (579763)

          Really, how many windows users have ever clicked the middle mouse button or scroll wheel?

          The defection rate from windows is at max 1%. How many of those users will have highlighted text and then at some point later actually clicked their scroll wheel? That is going to be a very small number. How many of them will be so confused that they won't think, "how does this work" or "ok, don't click the scroll wheel?"

          It is a non-starter. GNOME removes features and then comes up with whatever justification they want

    • Re:FUCK OFF (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jones_supa (887896) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:21AM (#44935917)

      Now it's becoming a cheap-ass knockoff of some nasty hybrid of OSX and Windows with all the unique and useful features removed.

      I have been worried about this trend too. When I have been dabbling with Unity and GNOME3 I usually need to resort to things like "GNOME Tweak Tool" or editing some setting file by hand to achieve what I need. Put an actual "advanced settings" category for this stuff, and stop this race to the bottom in terms of who removes the most of the settings and features.

      • by kermidge (2221646)

        This.

        Stop already with making BS decisions on what I want - let me configure it the way I want.

        Re the article, I've never used middle-click paste, I used it to roll up the window until the wheel click switch died on my mouse.

        For me, going back to ST days, it was always left-click place cursor, left-click and drag to select, right-click to context menu to select cut or copy, then go somewhere and select position with left-click then right-click to paste.

        The comment earlier on UI and UX was right on. Give me

  • Right. (Score:5, Informative)

    by aardvarkjoe (156801) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:30AM (#44933621)

    I hope that "we'll defer this change until the next cycle" also means that it's getting re-thought, rather than just delayed.

    If you have any hope of that, you've obviously not actually used Gnome for any length of time. Considering their users is not something that Gnome designers seem to have any desire to do.

  • by chalsall (185) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:30AM (#44933623) Homepage

    Please, please, PLEASE make this an option, not a full removal.

    I will stop using GNOME if this ability is fully removed.

  • by Hatta (162192) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:33AM (#44933681) Journal

    Just another reason not to use GNOME. Hopefully the Xorg people don't start thinking this is a useless feature. I'm still finding myself trying to hit CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to kill X, or CTRL-ALT-+ to zoom in. These were very useful features that were dropped for no good reason at all.

  • Who cares? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by BlackPignouf (1017012) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:35AM (#44933731)

    One more reason to try LXDE, MATE or Cinnamon.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by LoRdTAW (99712) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:33AM (#44934979)

      Mate is my pick. At one point I like the simplicity of Blackbox but it does require a bit of configuration. I then moved to XFCE and I currently use Mate.

      To me the gnome 2.0 desktop was perfect. I could cram a bunch of stuff in the top bar like date/time/weather/disk usage/cpu & ram usage/network traffic and quick launch icons. And all of my running programs are at the bottom. Mate continues that trend and it works nicely for me.

    • Re:Who cares? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by houghi (78078) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:01AM (#44935567)

      I use XFCE. I never like GNOME or KDE.
      Thar does not mean I don't use any GNOME or KDE programs, because I do.
      When I install openSUSE 13.1 (as Evergreen [opensuse.org]) I might even go back to Windowmaker. I want the Window Manager back. I do not like the Window Desktop. One of the reasons I use Linux is because I want everything separated from other things. The desktop should just tell me where things show up on my screen.

      What you have now is separation of development of many programs. Instead of having a choice of differnt terminal programs, I can select the one for GNOME, KDE, XFCE, LXDE, ...
      Instead of having several File Managers, I can use the one for KDE, GNOME, LXDE, XFCE, ...

      The same for many other programs.

      Sure, there are some exceptions out there still, but I think it is a terrible waste of human productivity.

  • revenge (Score:5, Funny)

    by bperkins (12056) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:35AM (#44933743) Homepage Journal

    If I ever build a killbot, it will be activated by the phrase "confusing to users."

  • by dougmc (70836) <dougmc+slashdot@frenzied.us> on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:40AM (#44933847) Homepage

    Actually, I've already ditched Gnome. I liked Gnome 2, but so many of the features I liked and actually used were removed for Gnome 3 that I finally bit the bullet and just switched to XFCE. I miss some of the features of Gnome 2, but not Gnome 3.

    And if I hadn't, removing middle button paste and not even making it an option would have run me off even faster. At least I spent some time trying to like Gnome 3 before giving up.

    Seriously, they can have my middle mouse button paste when they pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

    • by Nite_Hawk (1304)

      Cinnamon here, but same basic theory. My anger about gnome 3 has decreased significantly since switching. I look at these threads more with amusement than with rage at this point.

      If you are still on gnome3 and angry, it's really worth getting out while the getting is good.

  • Too fucking bad (Score:5, Interesting)

    by elashish14 (1302231) <profcalc4&gmail,com> on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:41AM (#44933869)

    The only result that this will have is either

    1.) derivative products adding it back in or
    2.) users moving to a different platform

    Wake up idiots!!! Do you see how many forks of your project exist these days? That's because they have no other means to fix your broken products. Gnome is becoming un-recommendable as a desktop for all their idiotic design decisions. From now on, your options are KDE if you want a qt-based setup or Xfce/LXDE if you want gtk. Gnome no longer exists to me.

  • by mi (197448) <slashdot-2014@virtual-estates.net> on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:50AM (#44934095) Homepage

    But it is confusing for new users

    Such optimizing things for new users — while pessimizing the experience for others — is a trap. This is exactly, how you end-up with a dumbed-down system — whether it is an OS, or a user-interface for anything. Easy to get started — maybe, you'll achieve that. Hard to keep going — this one will likely be yours...

    • by raymorris (2726007) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:00AM (#44935521)

      Exactly. The user-to-user interface, such as English, is so complex that no-one can ever learn 100% of a language, and the benefit of that is that it enormously powerful.
      If we wanted interfaces that were so simple you could learn the whole thing in two weeks, we'd all be speaking in baby talk. What people want is an interface where you can learn the BASICS quickly, then keep learning more forever.

      When you dumb down the interface, you're choosing to make the first two months of use easier, at the expense of making the next 20 years of use more difficult.
      That's dumb X 120.

  • by advid.net (595837) <slashdot@advid. n e t> on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:50AM (#44934103) Journal

    Where the middle button shines, is when one need to copy and paste two pieces of junk from one window to another:

    Select the first part, Ctrl-C, select the second part, then move on the target window and Ctrl-V to paste the first part and middle click to paste the second part.

    There's no way one can easily do this without the middle button paste. Is there ?
    (and desktop clipboard history isn't very ergonomic, last time I tried)

    I must admit I don't use this feature very often, but I like it a lot when it comes handy.

  • by Wattos (2268108) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:52AM (#44934127)

    They should just remove CTRL + C and CTRL + V as well while they are at it. Not only is it not very discoverable, but it also requires you to use the keyboard. Drag and Drop is so much better and obviously the correct way to do copy paste.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      CTRL + C and CTRL + V have been confusing the hell out of users since 1993.

      'Press control? I don't see a control key. Oh, CTRL I see it now. Ok, I pressed CTRL and then C but nothing happened. What? I have to hold it down. OK... I'm holding down CTRL and C and V but nothing's happening. What? Hold CTRL and press C, then release them? Ok. I did that and the same with CTRL and V but now I have the wrong word two times together at the top of the document. My computer is definitely not working. Can you come up

  • by sl4shd0rk (755837) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @08:54AM (#44934179)

    I find it fascinating that a group of people would actually consider removing this entire piece of functionality the better option in lieu of simply making it a configuration item.

  • .... what, exactly?

    I mean, sure... I can understand it being difficult for new users to adapt to. I can even understand it being removed as a default behavior out of the box, but why can't the feature just be a configurable setting in the window manager's properties file?

    • by fwarren (579763) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:03AM (#44935607) Homepage

      You sir, sound like you are expecting an answer from reasonable people.

      The GNOME 3 devs have a better than 3 year track record of showing that they are NOT reasonable people. No screen savers, no-left pane in a file manager, or being able to blank your screen instead of sleeping when you close the lid on your laptop. These are features that have been removed with no way to add the functionality back in (xscreensaver and moving to Nemo don't count). These are not the decisions of reasonable people. They have shut the door on these features, and if someone finds a way to hack them in, they then remove the backdoors that allow for that. They are damn serious about making this stuff go away and in their arrogance and hubris believe that they know better than you what you want and need to be productive in a desktop environment.

  • by macson_g (1551397) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:12AM (#44934543)
    It's been configurable in KDE since forever. Together with "focus follow mouse", another X-izm. And it's confusing no for "new users" but for "users coming from Windows background"
  • Awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by zmooc (33175) <zmooc&zmooc,net> on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @09:48AM (#44935297) Homepage

    This is totally awesome. Gnome has been taunting me for years, continuously demolishing perfectly fine functionality I use daily, but at the same time just not taking it far enough for me to permanently switch. Not anymore though; this will definitely make me switch to some other desktop environment. Awesome. I'm happy for this loss:-)

  • by jeff13 (255285) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:02AM (#44935579) Homepage

    Well, yea but, how can we make this Obama's fault?

  • by fahrbot-bot (874524) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @10:51AM (#44936513)

    But it is confusing for new users, ... [so] middle-click paste will be permanently removed ...

    Because new users are new forever and can never learn anything. /sarcasm

  • by wonkey_monkey (2592601) on Tuesday September 24, 2013 @11:02AM (#44936725) Homepage

    ...is the ability to right-click to select a menu option and keep the damn menu open.

    I've given up on doing this in Windows, but is this doable in any of the Linux desktop environments? And by "doable," I mean an easy to enable option that doesn't involve recompiling the kernel or burying my grandmother in soft peat for three months.

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