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Linus Torvalds Promises Profanity Over Linux 3.10-rc5 334

Posted by samzenpus
from the cover-your-ears dept.
hypnosec writes "Linus Torvalds has released Linux 3.10-rc5, and he is certainly not happy with the changes merged last week. Rc5 is bigger than rc4 and has code scattered across its entire code base because it addresses many outstanding problems. In the release announcement, Torvalds noted, 'I wish I could say that things are calming down, but I'd be lying. rc5 is noticeably bigger than rc4, both in number of commits and in files changed (although rc4 actually had more lines changed, so there's that).' Torvalds has warned that he is going to start cursing again, and said, 'I'm going to call you guys out on, and try to come up with new ways to insult you, your mother, and your deceased pet hamster.'"
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Linus Torvalds Promises Profanity Over Linux 3.10-rc5

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  • Profanity? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:05PM (#43953929)
    Calm and measured explanations of just what the coders are doing wrong would be ever so much more helpful. If all Linus is going to do is mouth off then perhaps it's time he just STFU and GTFO.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:13PM (#43953969)

      Profanity is the crutch of inarticulate motherfuckers.

    • Re:Profanity? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:14PM (#43953981)

      He did explained, which is "donâ(TM)t stop sending him non-critical stuff, he is going to start cursing again."

      Obviously, people have not gotten his memo for the last 10 kernel releases- we've been hearing about this complaint since 3.0.

      He is pissed because he has to waste time going thru the code for every single commit that should not go into a RC build.

      At this point there's really only 2 things he can do- deny the commits, or/and swear at the dev. What else can he do, fire them?

    • by chromaexcursion (2047080) on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:22PM (#43954049)
      There's a more complete explanation in the article.
      At this point in the RC cycle, the expectation is that only bug fixes will be introduced. The latest merge include changes that had nothing to do with listed issues.
      New features belong in the 3.11 branch.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      Calm and measured explanations of just what the coders are doing wrong would be ever so much more helpful. If all Linus is going to do is mouth off then perhaps it's time he just STFU and GTFO.

      I think he should take your advice. Clearly his methods have been unsuccessful [computerweekly.com].

    • by gl4ss (559668)

      he just explained what was wrong.

      too much shit changing around. that shouldn't be in fifth release candidate.

    • by HiThere (15173)

      He basically said "Stop making cosmetic changes in a release candidtate, or I will get abusive."

      There was a bit more to it than that, including a threat to curse their dead pet hampster, but that was the nut of it.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Calm and measured explanations of just what the coders are doing wrong would be ever so much more helpful.

      Bull mother-fucking pussy. There is not one fucking shred of evidence to support that claim, and you sure as hell haven't written a single good line of code.

      You can write an algorithm ten ways, all of which accomplish the task. Objectively, they all work.

      But at least 9 of them are going to be fucking ugly and cause problems down the line. It is good for someone to tell you sooner that something you wrote is fucked up than to discover that later.

      It's like writing material for stand-up or sketch comedy. All y

    • Re:Profanity? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kjella (173770) on Sunday June 09, 2013 @06:49PM (#43955989) Homepage

      Calm and measured explanations of just what the coders are doing wrong would be ever so much more helpful. If all Linus is going to do is mouth off then perhaps it's time he just STFU and GTFO.

      Mostly he's talking to seasoned veterans at kernel development who damn well know what the rules are, they just choose to bend them. They're always pushing and he's the one who has to push back, measured explanations is as useless as explaining to boys that trying to sneak a peek into the girl's locker room is wrong. Of course they knew that but they did it anyway and a "please don't do that" won't discourage anyone from trying again. Even if he rejects the patches unless he talks back he becomes the wall people throw crap at to see what sticks. Usually The I'd call developers who should know better behaving in ways that are destructive to the project a management problem, but he's the project manager so his way of resolving it is to give people a well-deserved ass chewing on the LKML. Don't knock it if it works...

  • Torvalds is right (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward

    When you are maintaining a project of this size and you get bothered by little annoying cosmetical fixes and non-critical bugs you do lose your temper. I have to say he stayed pretty civilized till now. I suggest we start a kick-starter project to give torvalds the vacation he really needs!

    • Re:Torvalds is right (Score:4, Interesting)

      by swalve (1980968) on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:23PM (#43954055)
      Maybe he should train some devs to take over some of the stuff he's doing. If Linus's genius is the only thing that keeps Linux on track, he's doing it wrong. Delegate or Linux will not survive long term.
  • Grow up.

  • Well... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by SirLurksAlot (1169039)

    Everyone has to have a hobby, right?

    Seriously though, who the hell cares if the RC is bigger than the one before it, or whether the changes are scattered everywhere? If there were any number of concerns that needed to be addressed before the next release then it wasn't ready to go in the first place. Just test the hell out of everything, make sure nothing is broken, and make sure that each change was necessary and correct. In short calm your tits and keep coding.

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward

      The point of the release candidate process is to provide something that contains the entirety of the feature set in a release, but to provide it for testing, not release.

    • Re:Well... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:34PM (#43954133)

      He's angry because many of the changes are to non-critical stuff. That's not the priority, and it gets in the way.

      Here's part of his quote in context, which the summary didn't bother to provide:

      Guys, guys, guys. I'm going to have to start cursing again unless you stop sending me non-critical stuff. So the next pull request I get that has "cleanups" or just pointless churn, I'm going to call you guys out on, and try to come up with new ways to insult you, you mother, and your deceased pet hamster.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I don't think you understand how software engineering works, Computer science maybe, but software engineering, clearly not. Or maybe you just didn't read TFA.

      The problem isn't that the release is too broken, nor that a lot of critical fixes are needed. It's that devs are committing excessive non-critical stuff. At this point in the release cycle, ONLY critical stuff should be committed.

      Linus has every right to be a bit angered. He's done so effectively, in a way that will get the devs attention (hopefully)

    • Re:Well... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Todd Knarr (15451) on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:39PM (#43954179) Homepage

      Because people aren't sending him fixes for concerns that have to be addressed before the release. They're sending him "this is a bit messy, here's code that looks a bit cleaner" or "it works but I don't like it so here's a different way to do the same thing". And sometimes as the manager you have to smack the devs with the cluebat to get them to remember that it doesn't matter if the code's messy or ugly, it doesn't matter if there's another way to do it, it doesn't matter if there's a better way to do it, by the time you're at the release-candidate stage the only things you should be sending in changes for are fixes for the things that're actually not working right. If you don't, they'll keep tweaking forever and you'll never get a release. As a dev myself I can understand where Linus is coming from here. I doubt he's even really mad at anyone, just irritated at everyone and issuing a pointed reminder that there's a difference between what the devs want to do and what they ought to be doing before he does have to get mad at anyone.

    • by casings (257363)

      Seriously though, who the hell cares if the RC is bigger than the one before it

      The maintainer of the kernel does. You fucking ignorant twit. When you are a fucking kernel maintainer, then we will listen to what you have to say. Until that time, your opinion is of as much use as an asshole on my elbow.

  • It's the release manager's call to decide what to take. He could've said "no" but didn't. Heck, he could've yelled at the developers and said "HELL @#$^ING NO" in public, but he didn't.

    It's also his job to take the heat for unpopular decisions and defend them if necessary.

    • Yeah, that's what I was thinking too. Linus has to accept every one of those merges personally, so if he's accepting things that made it bigger than the previous rc, it's kind o fhis fault.
  • by NotSoHeavyD3 (1400425) on Sunday June 09, 2013 @02:45PM (#43954215)
    I mean speaking as a developer when I'm working and at this point I don't want to put in any new features. It's usually one of the managers or QA with a stupid "Hey lets put in a new feature right at the end" request.(And then it becomes "How willing am I to put up a fight over this?") I'm honestly surprised with no managers (and I mean business oriented managers) that this still happened.
  • To whoever reads occasionally the kernel list, there are no news here. This could fit in the Sun's or the "OK! Magazine" inner pages, but ./'s front page? Really?
  • Does someone oversee what gets into a RC? Or do the kernel maintainers get to commit whatever they want?

    I'm not a linux kernel developer, but in my company when we get into the RCs, we have pretty tight control in which bugs/enhancements get added.

    What's Linus' specific role in this besides "yelling and screaming"?

    • by Todd Knarr (15451) on Sunday June 09, 2013 @03:41PM (#43954571) Homepage

      It's a three-layer process. Devs themselves are expected to adhere to the rules. Then the subsystem maintainers are supposed to filter changes to their subsystems. And finally Linus is the final arbiter on what gets merged into the release branch. Technically devs can check in anything they want, but it has to go through the subsystem maintainers and Linus to get into the release. Linus' role here is prodding the subsystem maintainers and the devs themselves to remember the rules and stop sending him so many things to sort through. It's easier on him if it's 90% rubber-stamp approvals and if a few stragglers get through it's not causing any widespread issues, as opposed to if it's 50% cruft and if he doesn't scrutinize everything carefully it's going to be a mess.

    • by HiThere (15173)

      Deciding how to refuse to accept changes without alienating the coders. So he's reluctant to reject the code they've worked so hard on without a specific reason. Here he's reminding people of what the reason is when a release candidate is being worked on. (He's also suggesting that they stage it for the next version.)

      Anyone who gets offended at this particular post is just being silly. It's not directed at anyone in particular, it's just a general notice that they should notice that the version says "Re

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