Jolla Announces First Meego Phone Available By End 2013 152
x_IamSpartacus_x writes "Jolla, the Finnish company that continued Nokia's work on the MeeGo mobile platform, announced details of its first smartphone on Monday. Availability for the Jolla device is expected by year end and can be pre-ordered now; the phone will be priced at no more than €399 (US $512.26). The Jolla hardware looks similar to that of Nokia's Lumia, with a clean, button-less front face that houses the 4.5-inch touchcscreen. The phone will use a dual-core processor and support 4G LTE in some regions. Internal storage tops out at 16 GB, but can be expanded via microSD card. The phone also includes an 8 megapixel rear camera with auto focus. The phone is also 'Android app compliant' which, in a move similar to that of BlackBerry, can help with available apps at launch."
sweet (Score:3, Informative)
hopefully we can get some traction going for this cool project.
Re:sweet (Score:5, Informative)
Meego uses X windows, and other more traditional technologies than android, is just as fast if not faster, and works like 'standard linux' out of the box. That's kinda nice, eh?
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True Multitasking
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Please explain who the current mobile OS available aren't true multitasking?
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who should of course be how.
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Android doesn't have true multitasking, neither does iOS or Windows Phone. They are all one app at a time with background services.
This is true multitasking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7emvUBpEkbU
This demonstrates switching between applications while they are still *actively* running, hell even the thumbnails are updating on the app switching interface. That's on a phone with single-core 600MHz CPU and 256MB RAM.
Re:sweet (Score:4, Informative)
"They are all one app at a time with background services."
Bullshit:
-Apps can multitask without Services, just use Threads.
-Android has multiple window support.
You are confusing the UI thread being stopped (when it is not visible) with threading/multitasking. Evidence of apps multitasking is for example a Samsung Note2 with multi-window support, although for some reason in the Samsung ROM you only can use some blessed apps multiwindowed, custom ROMs unlock this for app installed apps.
Using Services give extra features/hints to the OS. Like auto(re)start. It also gives a simple way to detach the UI from lightweight background tasks.
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And how do you figure this? WebOS has true multi-tasking as does Android. iOS has multi-tasking for Apple's apps and a limited multi-tasking for everyone else.
Or do you mean multiple windows on the screen at once? On phones that's just silly (screen size makes it impractical). On tablets it's a decent idea and Samsung(?) has done that with Android. The one thing is, how many times do you really need two windows up side by side? Plus since the devices are mobile and power is at a premium, showing only the ap
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It has multitasking in the sense that your program can call fork() and expect the same behavior as you would get on a "regular" desktop computer.
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How in the hell do you figure that? Fork has fuck all to do with the definition of multi-tasking, true or otherwise. Fork is a C language construct that has been carried up into other languages that is only one way to spawn a new process. But even if it were the definition, I can call fork from Android JNI or NDK code (severely frowned on, but doable).
In android I can spawn services and use broadcast receivers to do exactly the same thing as fork()ing a child and communicating across a pipe. Same semantic,
Real multitasking (Score:4, Informative)
I used to have an N900 running Maemo with "true multitasking". A poorly-written app in the background (like Firefox with the "full Web experience" of Flash) would run down the battery in two hours. But at least I could use top to find the problem and kill -9 it.
Now I use Android where apps are specifically written to be aware of my battery.
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With great power comes great responsibility.
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Re: sweet (Score:2, Informative)
Android does not have true multitasking. When I switch away from an app I can't be sure that I will come back to it in the same state that I left it in. This is especially annoying with Ajax heavy websites. They just reset to their initial state after I just wrote an email or took a picture.
My puny little N900 could do this with 256 MB RAM. Why can't my Galaxy S3 with 1 GB do the same?
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That is not Android doing it wrong, but the application doing it wrong. There are events you can implement to solve this problem. And yes it is ironically the stock browser that fails to handle this situation. Opera Mini does this just fine, navigate somewhere and reboot the phone. Restart Opera and you will be where you left.
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Nokia made the point of striking the balance between open and usable before Android existed, especially with the Maemo platform. For example, I've yet to see Android get the connection UI right - where it detects that you're making an internet connection and provides you with a dialog box of available connections (versus quitting or opting for automatic connections).
Unlike Firefox OS, you'll have a terminal (and more direct access to hardware).
Unlike Android, it has no carrier-driven limitations.
Unlike iOS
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I use CyanogenMod, I have no carrier limitations. If I wanted a phone that came, out of the box without limitations, I would get Nexus 4. Of all the other complaints about Android, by Meego Fans, most of them are irrelevant (word of the day), because Android already does it, with the sole exception of X-Windows support. And quite frankly, that is irrelevant on a phone IMHO, that is unless X-Windows can do something better on a 4 in screen that Android, iOS or even Firefox does, it is more irrelevancy. At t
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Unlike Android, it has no carrier-driven limitations.
Android doesn't have any carrier-driven limitations.
Re:sweet (Score:4, Interesting)
Replacable batteries.
It looks like they have taken an interesting step following that philosophy with enabling functional expansion through interchangable backs.
Sailfish also has a pretty slick interface. I will hold off on judgement until I get a chance to use it for a while.
If a user-centric design philosophy (including openness/freedom) doesn't really matter to you, and you don't care about the user interface, yes it's just another phone. But then again, any modern cell phone is essentiall Turing-complete and you can build/connect accessories and power supplies around them. So at a high level of abstraction, no modern phone is distinguishable, nor should we expect to see one any time soon.
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The maemo/meego devices have given users root access out of the box, perhaps you have to take one minor step to indicate you know what that means, but that's about all. These devices are there for you, and don't really try to protect themselves from their users/owners.
Not actually true with Meego - AEGIS prevents even root from doing various things.
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I haven't seen the sources for sailfish yet, but I gather many of the people at Jolla didn't like the portions of the os that were shipped binary only while they were at nokia. So I'd expect the openness to improve. ... snip ... If a user-centric design philosophy (including openness/freedom) doesn't really matter to you
I hadn't noticed where the folks at Jolla had committed to an open source stack, do you have a reference?
Re:sweet (Score:4, Insightful)
Hopefully app acl list will be USER defined instead of app defined.
How retarded is it for an app to blackmail you for Contact list/messages and phone calls just so you can play a game? How come its the app that decides and has the upper hand instead of the user? How come App can blackmail me and I cant simply REFUSE to give it data?
I want to be able to define ACLs per application. I dont give a shit what app wants, it can eat a duck for all I care. Phone status? sure, feed it fake USER DEFINED status. I dont need a game to know that I have GPS enabled. You want GPS data? Sure, let me feed N38 53.86205 W77 2.19162.
Its my phone damnit!
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So what you're saying is that you want a BlackBerry? ;)
Legacy OS and BB OS 10 both offer this feature. The user is in control for the most part - OS10 doesn't do it quite as well as legacy BB, but it still does it.
Who gets root? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Who gets root? (Score:4, Interesting)
That's what I want to know too. With device owner root and a hardware keyboard this could be an N900 replacement.
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That's what I want to know too. With device owner root and a hardware keyboard this could be an N900 replacement.
I was hoping for a keyboard, too, but it looks like "the other half" is more accurately described as "your choice of back colors". Sad smiley.
looking forward to it (Score:5, Insightful)
As a developer, I'd find an alternative to Java/Dalvik and Objective-C/iOS pretty appealing.
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As a developer, I'd find an alternative to Java/Dalvik and Objective-C/iOS pretty appealing.
http://developer.blackberry.com/cascades/ [blackberry.com].
You're welcome.
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Interesting. On paper, it satisfies many of my requirements, but I just hated the last Blackberry device I had... I think I'm going to wait for Ubuntu, MeeGo, and Firefox OS.
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Interesting. On paper, it satisfies many of my requirements, but I just hated the last Blackberry device I had... I think I'm going to wait for Ubuntu, MeeGo, and Firefox OS.
The last blackberry device you had ran an outdated J2ME-based OS. The new one is built atop the POSIX-compliant QNX kernel and in many ways (though not all) is better technology than is offered by the competition. Not specs, but underlying capabilities.
I'd suggest trying it out before discardng it out of hand. Also - no reason not to develop for both. Qt apps will run just fine on BB10 with minor tweaking, and I suspect on Sailfish as well.
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Even C# [1].
[1] http://xamarin.com/monotouch [xamarin.com]
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Why no real specs? (Score:4, Interesting)
Why are there no real specs? Makes me think this thing will be years out of date.
I wish them well, but I am not going to settle for something that should have come out in 2011.
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I agree that specs would be nice. However, as someone who's holding on to a N900 (a peerless mobile device IMHO) I'm just glad that between this and the efforts of the Firefox guys, we may see more open devices that let those of us who are interested in digging around under the hood can look forward to.
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I agree, but it will come down to specs for me between another NEXUS device and this. The closed or locked down options just don't exist for me.
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The N900 is peerless, until you want a phone that can hold a SIM card, then it literally starts to fail after 3 months. The design is guaranteed to fail and is fucking depressing for such an expensive phone.
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I'm not aware of any widespread problems with N900 and SIM cards (unlike, say, the charging connector).
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By any chance are those the RX-51, or the more recent RX-51X, which had some sort of radio fix? Not sure if that's why they made a second version of the N900, but that might be something to check out.
Surprised that you're not complaining about the USB port - I've got two of them thanks to that issue alone. One of them works, the other will have to be charged by the debug port.
Look at the FCC ID. (Score:2)
At least you were lucky enough to catch it in time. If you look at the FCC ID of units from both revisions, you'll see the RX-51X that I'm talking about.
The other sure way to tell is if you have to use Pali's bootloader in the place of the bootloader used to load Nemo(Meego) or Android(GB/ICS if you want a strict tablet w/o non-VOIP data services)
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Sorry, I was mixing up the N9 with the N900. I have an N9. They are legendary for SIM card problems. Similar to N900 but no keyboard and bad SIM holder...
Since the N9 uses a micro-SIM, I could see problems with users cutting their mini-SIMs down to fit. Not all of those punches are created equal, and the x-acto method depends on blade-wielding skill.
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I agree that specs would be nice. However, as someone who's holding on to a N900 (a peerless mobile device IMHO) I'm just glad that between this and the efforts of the Firefox guys, we may see more open devices that let those of us who are interested in digging around under the hood can look forward to.
But are these really any more open than a Nexus? The closed part of the Android system is at the driver level - which the Firefox and Ubuntu guys use anyway.
Hardware-Software Integration (Score:1)
The cool thing is the back cover. It is possible to change it and get new features to the phone. It can unlock content or have a more powerful flash, etc. The call is a "The Other Half".
http://techcrunch.com/2013/05/20/jollas-other-half/
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market share? (Score:3)
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They aren't even bothering to go after the US market. They're focusing on smaller, less competitive markets like China, Europe, and North Africa. Markets outside of the US are much less screwed up with monopolies and such.
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> They aren't even bothering to go after the US market. They're focusing on smaller, less competitive markets like China, Europe, and North Africa.
The US is the smaller market compared to China.
You can even blame Nokia, for throwing away their business in Asia and Africa with Symbian, just to try to capture the smaller US market with Windows Phone. And they even hardly succeed with that.
I expect Jolla to sell quite good in China, and hopefully somewhat in Europe too.
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> They aren't even bothering to go after the US market. They're focusing on smaller, less competitive markets like China, Europe, and North Africa.
The US is the smaller market compared to China.
You can even blame Nokia, for throwing away their business in Asia and Africa with Symbian, just to try to capture the smaller US market with Windows Phone. And they even hardly succeed with that.
I expect Jolla to sell quite good in China, and hopefully somewhat in Europe too.
Nokia has always been obsessed with the US market, but have still been happy with their market share in developing countries. Losing a foothold of the developing countries might not have happened due to trying to gain the US market even more, rather just due to better offering from competitors.
Working with operators is a big part of success in the US, as such the business model is very different from the rest of the world where most phones are sold directly to the consumer (possibly with a monthly fee, bu
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Which is one of the problems, unless you're trying to sneak in some anti-American snark.
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They are, however, less screwed up with things like market control and lock-in, as you suggest.
Ignoring that China Mobile is state-owned, owns the vast majority of the market and the Chinese government both gives it protectionist benefits and frequently interferes in its affairs?
Less market control in China? That's a good joke.
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Wrong. China surpassed the US in May of last year as the largest smartphone market. Want to try again?
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Maybe, but there is always "dragging smaller competitor through the streets until it's bankrupt" is always an option.
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> If Blackberry and Microsoft with their $Billions can't compete with Google and Apple, how can a tiny project like this?
If everyone said that, we would not have Google or Apple. They too started as tiny projects. I wish them well, and hope to see them succeed.
The Nokia N9 sold well in China. It has allready been in the news that Jolla has good relationships with Chinese and European carriers. They will sell, probably some millions. Who knows where things are going.
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Unlike Blackberry and Windows Phone, you can use any Linux desktop software without any modifications. Repackaging stuff for Jolla is a matter of adding some touchscreen adaptations here and there.
Of course, they could avoided most of the problems by including a physical keyboard.
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Android started as a tiny project, too.
And the answer to your question is, as always, to be technically superior. In this case in particular, compatibility with Android apps is a pretty good start, too, making switching much less painful.
There is an absolute cult following for the N900, due to being basically a full Linux system on a phone, and as a result, every desktop Linux app you coul
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Android started as a tiny project, too.
Android started as a tiny project when the sum total of the smartphone market was approximately the size of the number of devices that Samsung or Apple sells in a quarter now.
It's a different world. I wish them luck, but it's an uphill battle.
And the answer to your question is, as always, to be technically superior.
BB has tried that route with BB10. It's yet to be determined if they'll succeed - but certainly it's not enough on its own.
In this case in particular, compatibility with Android apps is a pretty good start, too, making switching much less painful.
See above.
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Running a Linux system in a Chroot, and X11 available only via VNC, is a far cry from a native system.
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By:
a) Innovating
b) Not being Microsoft
Android app compliant? (Score:2)
Does anyone know specifically what is meant by "android app compliant".
Presumably, it is able to run the android VM (and API?) in addition to the other software and bring up the results in a window. Is this the case? Does anyone know how?
Presumably one ought to be able to do that on desktop Linux as well, but I've never seen a method to do it.
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Heh... If that were solely the case, you wouldn't have "gapps" for CyanogenMod and the other custom ROMs for Android devices...
Google Play's in the gapps pack. ;-D
Amazon Appstore (Score:2)
for the vast majority of packages that you want you will not be able to get the file because it is released through the Googlr Play store
Just because an application is in the Google Play Store doesn't necessarily mean it's not also in Amazon Appstore. Open source applications are less likely to be in Amazon Appstore because of Amazon's $99 per year recurring fee, but they're also more likely to be in F-Droid or to have a downloadable .apk file.
ARM vs. x86 for NDK apps (Score:2)
Presumably one ought to be able to [run the Android application environment] on desktop Linux as well, but I've never seen a method to do it.
Part of the problem is that a lot of popular Android applications use NDK because they're ports of applications from other platforms that aren't written in Java. Most of these aren't compiled for anything but ARM, while desktop Linux is overwhelmingly x86 or x86-64. Applications that heavily use NDK would have to run in an emulator, and by that point, you could just download the Android SDK and emulate a Galaxy Nexus as if it were a Game Boy.
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But the NDK fully supports x86 as well as several flavors of ARM. So there's no reason for this to be the case, other than laziness (note that this only started around 1-1.5 years ago, older apps do have an excuse).
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The biggest problem's more that you'd have to make X86 versions and flag for them in the Play store- which is beyond a pain in the *ss.
There might be some other solutions there, but what you're talking to...that's pretty much a non-starter right at the moment. NDK support's one of the reasons Intel's had "issues" getting Atom into the space over ARM based solutions.
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I think intertia, power consumption, and lack of a value proposition are hurting atom far more than the NDK issue.
Rational laziness; 50 MB limit on .apk size (Score:2)
So there's no reason for this to be the case, other than laziness
There is a concept of "rational laziness". Where's the return on investment for making and testing an Android/x86 version of an application? In addition, several applications already appear to be at or near Google Play's 50 MB limit with one architecture alone, such as LibreOffice [arstechnica.com].
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Phone hardware platform with expandability (Score:3, Interesting)
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Same here. It's an intriguing strategy they are trying to pull off. The central Jolla platform is expandable by third party hardware vendors, who can become the other half of the device, not just an external peripheral maker. This kind of modularity will surely become more prevalent in the future, because smaller and smaller parts are made to be smart in some way. The Jolla platform functionality will be quickly copied though, but hopefully the Sailfish OS will connect all together...
Re:Phone hardware platform with expandability (Score:5, Informative)
Just found this quote [techcrunch.com] by Mark Dillon the software director. Essentially anyone can create a cover (the tools are open):
“Of course we will be offering a choice of Other Halves for the user to buy but this is a place where we want to see others get involved. Designers can design Other Halves for the device, engineers or hackers or techies can design new interfaces and maybe add physical hardware features that they wish they had on their device but might have a smaller market than to deserve having a whole entire device,” he said. “We talked about 3D printing them today. So it could be those kinds of things, but really we’re offering a new kind of interface for a device so that people can really take their imagination, and I believe there will be a lot of third parties and a lot of people who have a lot of great ideas in order to help you use the Other Half of the Jolla device.”
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No keyboard, no care. (Score:3)
One of the things about the N900 (and the N950) was that it not only packed a ton of those features, it also had the hardware keyboard.
I'd rather reflash an N900, warts and all, since this is just an N9++. Let me know when they make something like the N950 with that software on it, except that it's available to all this time around.
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Maybe one of the changeable back modules could have a hardware keyboard.
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If only...
External Bluetooth keyboard (Score:2)
Power Consumption (Score:2)
Whether it is by Bluetooth or by something like USB-OTG, a non-native interface would be power-hungry.
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I was just preempting the usual responses about attaching a keyboard - whether by OTG host or by Bluetooth.
At least with a GPIO-based keyboard, there is some more control over power usage without the need for the baggage of Another Protocol below it.
Niche product (Score:2)
Die, CDMA, die! (Score:2)
Personal hardware should be de-coupled from paid services, period.
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That would have been a short-sighted decision. CDMA was a much better upgrade path form our existing networks than GSM was and better suited for large rural areas, which the US has more of than western/central Europe. Where the FCC screwed up was that the way LTE frequency was allocated let to greater fragmentation, when it should have been an opportunity to improve compatibly and thus competition.
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You say that as if it wasn't the intention of FCC. I think that is what the parent poster was talking about, the FCC isn't doing its job in minimizing fragmentation.
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A better Android than Android (Score:2)
"A better Windows than Windows" was a main selling point of OS/2 2.0. It is argued that few developed for OS/2 because the Windows compatibility was so good that there was little point in doing native applications.
Is there a risk that the same thing can happen to Meego?
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Well, that was not the only issue with OS/2. I think IBM had no idea how to reach home users, or didn't really care for OS/2. I recall reading about OS/2, how awesome it was, how it was much better than Windows... and then seeing IBM machines bundled with Windows. I mean, if they won't support their own system, if they won't throw their weight behind it, who would?
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Well, that was not the only issue with OS/2. I think IBM had no idea how to reach home users . . .
Yeah. A stack of 30-plus floppy discs for the installation is a bit off-putting. So is an unrecoverable error on disc 25 -- "start over". Memories . . .
Lame (Score:2)
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The thing is actually modular, the back cover is more than just changing the color of the device, it can also bring features, and can theoretically fill up every possible niche imaginable with one device.
Where are you seeing anything that indicates the "other half" is anything more than Honda Element-style a choice of colors for part of the phone? I'm looking, but I'm not finding it.
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Wait, whut? (Score:2)
In testing the Mi-Go [wikipedia.org] Phone did have some sound problems, occasional whispering effects, and a small percentage of violent madness. Also a somewhat larger percentage of non-violent madness, whimpering, screaming in the dark, fetal position, and hallucinations.
On the good side, unlimited data plan, and discounted rates for Miskatonic University students and faculty.
Pug
Meh (Score:2)
What I'd like to see is a cheap little stick phone that does phone calls, text messages, and wireless tethering with a one week battery life. That is all I want from a phone. I have a nice smartphone right now, loaded with apps, which I use 99% of the time for phone calls, text messages, and wireless tethering. I bet a whole lot of people would buy one too.
Re: Meh (Score:1)
I'd buy one just to look at the battery tech that can teather in any meaningful way with a week between charges.
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USB tethering is always an alternative but if I could get five or six solid hours of wireless tethering out of it before needing a recharge that would do just fine.
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