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Open Source Operating Systems Linux

Fedora 19 Alpha Released 83

Posted by Soulskill
from the code-names-with-umlauts dept.
hypnosec writes "Following delays due to UEFI, the alpha version of Fedora 19 'Schrödinger's Cat' has been released. The alpha version brings with it all the features of Fedora 19, including the updated desktop options – GNOME 3.8, KDE Plasma 4.10 and MATE 1.6. Other new features include Developer's Assistant – a tool that would allow developers to code easily with ready templates, samples and more; OpenShift Origin – through which users will be able to deploy their own Platform-as-a-Service infrastructure; Ruby 2.0.0; Scratch; Syslinux – provides for simplified booting of Fedora; systemd Resource Control – which allows for modification of service settings without requiring a reboot; and Checkpoint & Restore. Downloads and release notes available at the Fedora Project site."
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Fedora 19 Alpha Released

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  • by Lakitu (136170) on Wednesday April 24, 2013 @11:20AM (#43536887)

    I'm expressly not looking for idiots. I wanted a real answer to why the hatred for gnome3 is so strong, but it seems like the only strong criticisms of it are idiotic in nature.

    2. If you can seriously defend the way for instance virtual desktops are handled, and how you're forced to continuously race your mouse-pointer back and forth across your widescreen monitor to accomplish anything with them, you're welcome. And NO, keyboard shortcuts or plugins and what not does NOT qualify as "solutions". Those are epic fail workarounds.

    how is that a fundamental flaw? It's an implementation detail. It can be annoying to repeatedly move your mouse from the top-left to the bottom-right, sure. It would be nice if the "hotspot" for it were configurable or something in case you found it more convenient somewhere else. Same goes for the notification try thing at the bottom. If you're basing your hatred of it on this, you're (surprise) an idiot! Gnome3 is interesting because of its overviews and workspaces, not because of which key-combinations and mouse-clicks it currently has you perform. Note that this is especially annoying if you are fighting the ui (i want my windows 95 back!!!!!), instead of just using it -- if you don't know that you can drag the background up and down in the activities overview similar to how you can drag-and-drop individual windows, then yes, this is tedious. But scrolling the workspaces by dragging is convenient, doesn't require you to move your mouse all the way across your widescreen monitor, and is one of those things you find to be so intuitive that you quickly forget you can't do it in other environments and begin to take it for granted.

    also, keyboard shortcuts do not qualify as solutions? what?

    This is linux. Keypresses shouldn't be absolutely necessary in a gui environment, and it'd be nice if there were more, or they were more configurable, but what the hell are you talking about if you only consider mouse input for everything? One of the truly interesting things about gnome3, especially compared to other desktop environments, is that keyboard shortcuts actually feel powerful and integrated. In older environments, keyboard shortcuts are essentially shortcuts to let you not use the gui anymore, like a launcher, or alt-tabbing and its virtual desktop equivalent. Gnome-shell is the first environment I've used where the super key is a blessing instead of an afterthought, where pressing it doesn't make you feel like somebody dropped something on your mouse and right-clicked somewhere.

    3. That's just the beginning. If you're serious about finding out what's wrong with it, you should contact a university near you, where they train any kind of students within cognitive science, or do anything related to HCI. Just don't forget to take your pills.

    so this is one of those "there are so many reasons I hate it, I can't even think of any" things. Alright, buddy. I hope your freshman year in that program with an HCI class is going well for you.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday April 24, 2013 @05:38PM (#43540797)

    Ok, I'll keep this brief.

    Anything that makes you move your cursor back and forth for miles during a day is just plain fail. It's not just bloody annoying, it's an ergonomic problem, and it shows that you actually didn't think things through.

    I specifically dismissed plugins and keyboard shortcuts because they are A) far from intuitively discoverable, B) indistinguishable from magic to any non-hard core user, and C) it's the absolute favorite excuse for gnome-apologists when you point out a flaw in the UI. I'd be a wealthy man if I had a penny every time I've heard "there's a shortcut for that!", or "there's a plugin for that!".

    You see, the point is that these things are meant to be things you can learn if you're a serious user willing to invest some time to increase your productivity. That's why VI/VIM is absolutely fine. It's an expert tool. I thought the entire idea with Gnome was not to fall into that category. Or is it constantly losing those "confusing" features (see the new Natuilus for a fresh example) because it's used by easily confused experts? Shortcuts are indeed not meant to be used as escape routes for anyone who wants to keep their sanity. In fact, just the fact that people keep referring to them as "the way to do it" in a GUI, should ring a metric ton of alarm-bells. Or does Gnome claim to have reinvented DOS?

    I don't get this harping about "Windows 95", btw. Attempt at "guilt by association"? An obvious fallacy, which doesn't do anything positive for your position. (As a side note, I'd like to point out that Microsoft has produced a lot of turds over the years, but the "Windows 95" UI is (also used in W2k until they ruined it in XP but I guess it doesn't sound as bad to accuse people of wanting their w2k back, right?), despite its warts a very clean and useable UI.)

    Stuff that relies on magic, stuff that does things just because you happen to park your mouse cursor somewhere arbitrarily decided to be "special", stuff which forces you to run the desktop marathon daily for the most basic usage or learn magic codes, or just in general totally gets in your way (one display, one window, one Führer, MAXIMIZE EVERYTHING! FULLSCREEN IS NORMAL!!ONEONEELVENTY!!!) because you're supposed to do things "the gnome" way are just failures in comparison. Fancy graphics and a later date of packaging is completely irrelevant, what matters is if you can do your job without tearing your hair out.

    TL;DR, it needs to be effective, reasonably intuitive and above all discoverable, unless you're talking about expert systems. Gnome3 is none of that.

    Thank you for your attempt at being condescending, epic fail there too. And no, I don't take HCI classes, but I know people who have. Amusingly, they tell me explicitly Gnome is frequently held up in class as an example of how not to do. And they are not freshmen, btw.

    Now, if you want to keep flinging insults around, fine. I've told you were you can find plenty of valid criticism of Gnome3, but I somehow get the feeling you're not really interested in it.

    And that's kind of the core of it afaic, I guess. What grates me about Gnome3, isn't so much it's pretty obvious problems, but the absolute arrogant, narrow minded, condescending and childish attitude of it's developers and their remaining sycophants. Their reaction to criticism has from day one been to accuse people who speak up of being "haters", "trolls", or "ignorant", "we know better than you", or, when everything else fails, just act like ostriches.

    Anyway, it's water under the bridge. They've flat out refused to listening to the users they had, and now they barely have any ones left, to their great surprise. Well, the rest of us aren't, we've moved on.

    And with that, I'm out. Peace.

Neckties strangle clear thinking. -- Lin Yutang

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