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GUI Graphics Software Ubuntu Upgrades Linux

Ubuntu Still Aims For Wayland in Quantal Quetzal 230

Posted by timothy
from the hard-to-please-everyone dept.
jones_supa writes "While there's still more than one month until the Ubuntu 12.10 feature freeze, Ubuntu developers continue to work towards their tight schedule of having Wayland serve as the compositor for the Quantal Quetzal release due out in October. Canonical's intends to provide smooth transitions from boot to shutdown. Wayland is also used for session switching and other operations, avoiding traditional VT switching, providing a consistent monitor layout, using the greeter as the lock screen, ensuring that locked sessions are actually secure from displaying, and showing the greeter while the session loads. Phoronix remains skeptical about Ubuntu making the deadline."
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Ubuntu Still Aims For Wayland in Quantal Quetzal

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @09:28AM (#40601779)

    I read the article and the Ubuntu Wayland wiki. The Ubuntu developers have not set any deadline, they don't appear to have set a specific goal, they're just continuing their work on Wayland as usual. The article appears to have just pulled the release target out of the author's arse and then claimed the developers won't make it in time. From the linked page:

    "When will Wayland become the default on Ubuntu?
    This has not been decided. This decision will be made at a future Ubuntu Developer Summit (UDS)."

    So apparently the developers won't reach their goal that they haven't set. How is this a story?

  • by babai101 (1964448) on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @09:37AM (#40601853)
    All of the X apps will remain compatible as they will also run an Xserver instance on top of wayland, it will not be that much PITA for the devs.
  • by kriston (7886) on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @09:40AM (#40601873) Homepage Journal

    I agree. Wayland needs to happen. We've wasted so much time, effort, and knowledge keeping X Windows up and running. I sometimes think about how much further along desktop Linux might be if we threw off the shackles of X Windows years ago. There's a reason Android and MacOS do not use X Windows.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @09:41AM (#40601893)

    Canonical has plans to include Wayland as a technical preview in 12.10, not as a replacement for X11. This means that they have to actually get it working at a basic level before putting it in the repositories. While Canonical is pushing Wayland, they've already said that it's still several years away from becoming a viable replacement for X11. This is just Canonical trying to push forward the development of a peice of software they believe in.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @10:00AM (#40602081)

    The Ubuntu folks aren't developing Wayland. Wayland is being developed pretty much entirely by Intel employees. Ubuntu is just planning to integrate it.

  • by snadrus (930168) on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @10:33AM (#40602505) Homepage Journal
    Sure. X11 needs replacing because its hardware acceleration is worse than Wayland. X11 is actually many programs acting like layers: window mgr, compositor, greeter, locker, etc will be only 1 under Wayland. And still the design is simpler than any one. It's not that the code is being added, but that a no-longer-useful X11-style abstraction is being let-go.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @10:44AM (#40602663)

    Troll much?

    How about people with local home networks of 2 or 3 machines? I use it all the damn time - like every single day. I run apps from a big powerful central server and display them over "ssh -X" to my low power laptop.

    I know you're just trolling, but people need to realize that people DO use "ssh -X" all the time. There are plenty of other repliers to this thread who have said they do as well.

  • by DeathToBill (601486) on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @11:31AM (#40603337) Journal

    And, in case you missed some of the metaphor there, the basic problem with X11 as a display system for desktop systems today is that none of the apps written for it actually use X11. Your multiple monitors work because of Xrandr - which isn't part of X11. Your 3D effects work by bypassing the X server and making OpenGL calls - not part of X11. It's supported by all the hardware vendors - and most of that support is in kernel drivers, not in the X server itself. VT switching works... more... or... less... until you'd actually like to switch VT before you get back from your coffee break, or your X server doesn't recover correctly. And, in case you missed it, they're not provided by X11. And I'm not sure what boot times have to do with it?

    Your apps draw using Cairo or similar, not X11. They draw onto a buffer provided by the compositing extension, not X11. The buffer gets put into video memory by the compositor, not X11.

    So why exactly are we keeping X11 hanging around? Why not get rid of it and halve the size of the display server code base, making it much easier to program against in the process? Why are we carting around a heuge amount of code that is of no modern relevance except to be able to claim that it is an X server? The maintenance burden of the current X server is too much and any thought of adding new capabilities horrific.

    Otherwise, your arguments amount to, "No-one supports it yet so it's a waste of time." Good on Canonical for pushing it - if anyone has a vague chance of getting vendors to support it, it seems they might.

  • by Hatta (162192) on Tuesday July 10, 2012 @11:44AM (#40603539) Journal

    Although the more detailed answer is that GTK/Qt apps will need recompiling with an updated library. If you use X11 directly, then you have more work - except that you can also run an X server within Wayland to support native X11 clients.

    So what's to happen to our decades worth of work in innovative and configurable window managers? Am I expected to run an X server on top of Wayland just so I can keep the Fluxbox config I've grown accustomed to?

    Choice of window manager is one of the best reasons to use a UNIX desktop. As I understand it, Wayland eliminates this choice entirely.

    X11 needs replacing

    Citation needed.

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