NewEgg: Installing Linux Breaks Laptop 518
Rick Zeman writes "According to the normally geek-friendly online store Newegg , installing Linux Mint is tantamount to breaking your new Lenovo laptop. Is it the purchaser's fault for not restoring the laptop to its original state of Windows-y goodness, or is NewEgg being too dogmatic trying to enforce a term that doesn't seem to exist?"
Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Interesting)
In their reply they said "Unit cannot be accepted or resold as received." Did she make it clear in her initial call that she was returning it for a hardware defect, and not just a general "I'm unsatisfied with it" return? I'm pretty sure that ANY hardware defective computer, with original OS or not, cannot be "resold as received." It sounds like the RMA may have mistakenly been issued as if it were a general return when it should have listed it as a hardware defect return.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Funny)
was it really a hardware defect or maybe the linux drivers don't work as well?
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Funny)
was it really a hardware defect or maybe the linux drivers don't work as well?
If you read the article, you'd know the answer!
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Informative)
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Really, glitchy drivers? Way to RTFA: "On the third day of use a loud coil squeal/chirp became apparent, becoming louder when it was running on battery power. Within hours the wireless chipset failed and refused to connect, the display began glitching with horizontal lines appearing through it, and it became unresponsive. I tested it with a Windows live USB thumb drive"
Some versions of the NVidia driver used a non-standard method for dimming the display, by turning on/off the backlight rapidly. This bug even mentions audible noise: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers/+bug/562005 [launchpad.net] . Booting windows from an USB drive is guaranteed to eliminate such issues though, so this bug wasn't the case in TFA.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Funny)
Because a Windows USB thumb drive will have all the necessary drivers for it to function properly.
Indeed. It's a well known fact that most portable versions of Windows ship with "SQUEALLIKEAPIG.DLL" and "HORIZONALLINESONTHELCD.DLL", so you should never assume that those are obvious hardware failures.
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How do you know it's not, as it's definitely possible for software to break hardware by programming poor settings into the devices. Back in the early days of XFree86 it was possible to destroy monitors by improperly configuring your screen timings. It wasn't that long ago (http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse-announce/2008-09/msg00017.html) that a bad linux driver was killing intel e1000e nics.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, some drivers can cause issues. My laptop came with Vista, which I despise, and so I installed linux on it. Everything mostly worked properly with the exception of the hard-wired lan port and the occasional hang. During my own troubleshooting, I discovered one problem would happen in both OSs and one would not. It turns out a linux driver was causing issues with the temperature probe or something similar and was overheating. So I can understand why manufacturers void the warranty when software can cause the machine to overheat and do nasty things. The LAN port was actually defective. I fixed the temperature issue by getting a bleeding edge copy of lm_sensors.
In my case, I tarballed my linux install to an external HDD and restored an image I took before I installed linux and sent it back for servicing (which was repaired and sent back to me.)
In the article it says the BIOS tests confirmed an error. Who knows if it was a rogue driver that caused it?
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If the machine is overheating, the BIOS should shut it down before any damage is done.
The "temperature issue" sounds like something to fix with speeding up the CPU fans or scaling back the CPU speed. A bleeding edge copy of temperature monitors doesn't really seem like the right solution.
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How do you expect the CPU throttling or fan speed be controlled with, magic? They have to get their data somehow.
Though I'd think the BIOS would be able to handle this, at least in extreme ranges where it should be clear the OS is misbehaving. Eg, if the temperature approaches redline, override the OS and cool it down.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:4, Informative)
How do you expect the CPU throttling or fan speed be controlled with, magic?
Modern Intel and AMD CPU throttling is done via hardware on the chip itself. If you remove the heatsink and boot to the BIOS screen, you'll see that the CPU has throttled itself, with no involvement from any OS.
CPU "drivers" just pass on the throttling state from the CPU to the OS, so the OS knows what is happening. The OS can't un-throttle the CPU.
Re:Overheating and Tom's Hardware video (Score:4, Informative)
Modern Intel and AMD CPU throttling is done via hardware on the chip itself. If you remove the heatsink and boot to the BIOS screen, you'll see that the CPU has throttled itself, with no involvement from any OS.
AMD will burn! See the Tom's Hardware video.
Very interesting... except that the video is originally from 2001, so I doubt that it has a lot to say about "modern Intel and AMD CPUs" unless you count hardware that came out between the dotcom crash and 9/11 as "modern". :-)
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It depends what component is failing or how. It could be a component is overheating for the case that the machine is in, causing it to crack, but not overheating from the thermal tolerances of the board perspective.
The BIOS usually only monitors CPU and mobo temps. A dedicated GPU or any plug in card that is overheating (including due to a defect) may not register on the mobo, but could have already damaged it.
I suppose in a broadly theoretical sense a linux driver could cause that. That's happened to GP
Not (specifically) a Linux problem? (Score:3)
Either way, the cause of a hardware fault could be caused by software, whether you're running Windows, Linux, BSD, hackintosh or whatever. So NewEgg's stance on this (assuming it is HW at fault) should be OS agnostic.
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Install linux on a macbook air and you will see how much a difference machine temperature and battery performance are.
Isn't this Linus's preferred platform?
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Insightful)
My wife's HP desktop runs linux, but came with Windows 7. It is set up dual boot, but she never runs Windows. Not long after she got it, it lost the nic. It wouldn't show up in the bios or windows as well. We returned the computer for repair and when we got it back it worked fine. The problem started again though. I was able to figure out that power management/suspend in linux was disabling the nic. The simple act of unplugging the power cable would reset it and it would run as normal then. Needless to say, suspend is no longer used. The point is that we returned a functional machine due to a linux problem. It happens.
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My GIGABYTE board was losing access to the NIC due to power saving also.
I told Linux to not power down the NIC (which would also preclude wake on LAN obviously) and the problem was solved. I didn't need to turn off all powersaving just that.
The whole PC uses under 30 watts when idle!
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Many "problems" with Linux is that it is more tweakable than Windows or Mac and sometimes the defaults are not what the user wants/expects.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:4, Interesting)
AGAIN if you had read the article, you would know. The user tried running the laptop with Windows and the wireless modem still did not work.
I wonder if you bought a laptop with Vista on it and then upgraded to Win7 would that also be covered by "original manufacturer's operating system has been removed." Newegg would probably deny it too.
Fuckers.'
Burn their building to the ground.
(I hate megacorps. Can you tell?)
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Only if you're lucky. In my case, they received my DOA laptop, then claimed they didn't and refused to honor the return. I had to reverse the charges with my credit card company and ceased dealing with them. I was blown away by how dishonest they were and just how bad their customer service was. I had used them for years but no more.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Funny)
Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise
Put your hand on the table while I get my 3-Wood out of my bag. And if you've seen my golf handicap, yes my driver is 'glitchy' ;-)
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Funny)
Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise ...
Actually, installing Linux drives usually results in a loud squealing noise ... coming from Redmond.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Funny)
I now have a visual of Ballmer in Ned Beatty's role ( or position ) in Deliverance.
Time to bleach my eye sockets and scrub my brain.
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"Show me evidence of a glitchy driver causing a loud squealing noise, the wireless chipset to stop working, and horizontal lines on the display."
AAHHHHHHhhhhhhhhh, the memories, they are back after I tried so hard to forget the S3 Virge driver:
http://www.spinics.net/lists/xf-xpert/msg05481.html [spinics.net]
Wireless chips that stop working, I have seen people complaining about some Intel and Broadcom chipsets, fairly recent. I used to have some kind of BCM (4328 IIRC) with ndiswrapper, occasionaly stopped working (once 1
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, it wasn't so much the video cards, it was the actual CRT monitor you could 'smoke'.....
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i had an x61s and just could not get the hard drive accelerometer-shutdown working under ubuntu, so yeah, there'd be a case for not honoring a warranty on the hard drive. the devil is, it would cost the company more to research these sort of cases than is really worth on consumer laptops, so in practice it's a blanket yay or nay depending on what they think they can get away with.
if you're going to do non-consumer stuff with your laptop (including installing linux), consider buying business class from a rep
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Interesting)
Having to deal with E520's (the E525's are the AMD Variants), It's the PC.
Now of course, the E525 is a bit different than the E520, but the Minute I read buzzing, MB immediately came to mind. We had no less than 20 of our E520 lot buzz over this past year. Most of them were the MB, but a few of them were the NIC/Power Board. In one case, the NIC/Power board actually melted and was smoking due to a Bad MB. Surprised one hasn't caught on fire yet.
The other thing that goes bad is the LCD panels, which shows horizontal lines on them. I believe this is due to the way the LCD Panel is connected to the board. In many cases just flexing the case was enough to cause this to occur.
The other big failure that they have is Fan Errors. apparently a small sticker on the case gets sucked in the fan which stops it. pretty much have to take the whole thing apart to get at it too.
All I can say is that Lenovo is not IBM when it comes to Laptop build quality and leave it at that.
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IIRC, so were the IBM Units. The difference is the ownership.
IBM used to go to great lengths to test their frames and designs for longevity and durability. That's why they were more expensive, but tended to last longer than other brands at the time. Back then We used to get R51 units. I saw one run over by a truck and it still booted. (although obviously the screen and case was shattered.)
Lenovo bought them out after the R60's shipped. I expected quality to slip immediately but it stayed up through the R61,
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Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Interesting)
Even if there weren't a hardware defect, shouldn't they wipe the disk and reinstall the OS from scratch (to protect the second buyer from the possibility that the first buyer got some malware).
Sounds like a good way to do identity theft - buy a laptop, install your favorite malware (infecting the Windows recovery partition to make it permanent just in case they do a recovery), then return it and let Bestbuy resell it to an unsuspecting customer. Use that user's stolen credit card/bank account details to repeat the process with another batch of laptops.
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I agree, they should wipe the disk. However, what if in the course of installing Linux, she removed the hidden Windows recovery partition (something I did way back when I installed Linux on my Thinkpad R31)? If Lenovo don't ship recovery disks with their computers (no idea, I havent ever bought a Lenovo) then NewEgg might have a point in that the system she is returning is not similar to the system she received.
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What? You mean you think they should "wipe the disk" but then use the "recovery partition"...on the disk? Doesn't that still leave the first purchaser the ability to trojan the recovery partition?
No, using that is not good enough to protect the customer.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, I'm being a little facetious, but the point is that it is extremely poor policy to restore a machine using the restore partition on the hard drive. Consequently, while technically, yes, the machine is not in original condition, it is (or at least should be) effectively of no importance to the ability to resell the machine, since it is (or again, should be) restored to original condition if NewEgg staff follows proper procedures.
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I guess if that were written in the warranty agreement, then keeping the recovery partition intact could be a stipulation, but since it was not in writing, then I would be inclined to side with the user in saying that it is not their responsibility to use up their hard drive space to protect the vendors interest. It was afterall the manufacturers decision to go the ultracheap route of putting the recovery system on the end users hard drive rather than providing an actual disk with useable license key.
Re:Unit cannot be resold as received? (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course not. And it doesn't represent Newegg well that they would try to resell any returned computer rather than returning it to the manufacturer for "refurbishment".
Couldn't you say the same for any computer with installed software, even just some Windows applications? Should I expect to buy a computer from Newegg (even one marked as "open box") and find that it had some software that I object to installed on it? Or maybe kiddy porn or spyware or other junk?
Of course, some might say that the original purchaser should have restored the software to Windows. But that involves making the recovery discs, since computers no longer ship with an actual copy of Windows on optical media. And, at least on the computers that I have made these reinstall discs on, you can only make the restore discs once. So just making the restore discs would put the computer in a condition that should make it unresellable, since the new owner would not be able to make restoration discs!
The real problem is that Windows is bundled with computers, and that resellers like Newegg accept this and don't do anything to get the manufacturers to give buyers options without the Microsoft tax or to get them physical recovery media. I guess they could try to blame the buyer for trying to install software on his purchase, but I doubt that they can claim that they never expect any buyers to install software on their purchases. Maybe there was indeed some driver issue that brought about the return, but resellers have helped create the environment where this can happen, and they need to share the responsibility.
Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:5, Insightful)
Now, you're free to wipe the whole machine and install whatever the hell you want. If something goes wrong and you need to RMA, you're in luck. You just torrent the ISO for that particular windows and burn it (or use Netbootin in the case of no optical drive) and reinstall it with your key and ship it back. Although this sounds like a lot of work, it actually can be quite useful when a relative or friend needs a copy of Windows. You make them a disc and transfer that heavily subsidized key to them. Sure, it might be illegal in the eyes of someone but it's worked for me and I keep it down to one use per key that I was extorted into buying. Personally, this sort of second sale doesn't feel morally wrong to me but if it does to you, you can always just hold on to your info and consider it an "asset" in your software library.
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:5, Insightful)
Or the first thing you do when you plan to install linux - replace the hard disk with a fresh one. Then put the original one on a shelf until you either run out of warranty or return the computer.
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:5, Interesting)
its often less effort to open the machine, remove its drive, put drive on shelf (before first ever boot) and put your own laptop drive in (maybe even an ssd) and do whatever you need to.
I have not stepped on a shipped os, probably ever. drives are cheap and I'll get a 2nd one to use for my own stuff. its exactly like this situation that you keep the original o/s and for me, the original drive sits unused.
time is what I don't have lots of and doing an image backup then verify then restore later on is 3 steps I'd rather not do. yank the drive, do your stuff on your and if hardware craps out, shove the old drive back in and return it for fixing/warr work.
plus, you NEVER have any of you files on that drive. no sector scan will EVER have your stuff on it. ever. that's nice, too!
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:4, Funny)
Or the first thing you do when you plan to install linux - replace the hard disk with a fresh one. Then put the original one on a shelf until you either run out of warranty or return the computer.
This approach undermines the entire principle of Linux. The thing to do is exactly what this girl did... fight it.
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Laptop harddisks are in the order of $70. Laptops are in the order of $700. I do not expect to pay 10% of the cost of an entire machine over simply because I'm trying to use the machine with some software that the vendor doesn't like.
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Chances are that you want to put a bigger/faster one in there anyways.
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If you don't want to use a whole hard drive, you can also use something like Clonezilla to make a complete backup of the original drive onto an external or network drive.
Then you can also almost as easily restore it back to its original state if you have to send it back.
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:4, Interesting)
you can also use something like Clonezilla to make a complete backup of the original drive onto an external or network drive.
I always use something like:
and
so far I just have a bunch of worthless images cluttering up one of my server disks, and I'll probably delete them when I get rid of the hardware, but who knows, maybe they'll be needed some day.
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Complete bullshit.
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Or the first thing you do when you plan to install linux - replace the hard disk with a fresh one. Then put the original one on a shelf until you either run out of warranty or return the computer.
If you RTFA you would notice that NewEgg's return policy states: 'The following conditions are not acceptable for return, and will result in the merchandise being returned to you: Any desktop PC, notebook or tablet PC that has been opened....'. So removing the drive breaks their returns policy.
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:5, Insightful)
Or you could just build a set of recovery disks like the manufacturer tells you to (you know, RTM...) If you have a problem, then you can use the recovery disks to restore to factory settings and then return the thing.
Easier said than done sometimes. I do corporate desktop support and use our own image/build on lots of different types of laptops from Lenovo, HP, Toshiba, etc but still create those disk just in case of something like this. FIrst off, sometimes there is no manual to read. If you're lucky, there's a link on the desktop to make the backup disks. Other times, they hide that feature buried in some other software with no guide as to how to get to it. Once, I just had it fail to create the disks straight out of the box (but luckily, I had two of the same model and the other one worked). That is to say, i do it professionally and I sometimes find it hard, confusing, or even impossible to do, so I can only imagine what a normal user would normally go through.
Re:Unfortunate Reality of Being a Linux User (Score:4, Informative)
Whenever I buy something, it seems like there's no way to get it without Windows. This means that I am paying for something I don't want.
The Windows EULA requires the vendor to refund the cost of the license if you decline the agreement.
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If the hardware was sold with an OEM license then the sticker taking notice of your license number is probably still on the hardware. So please look for it and take notice.
This article takes pains to elaborate on the Microsoft 'process' of owning a license and acrtually getting it to function on your current machine; perhaps via replaced media as required; too bad Microsoft isn't more helpful here but you always have choicesc (even it means a boycott) FYI. http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/06/blowing-awa [arstechnica.com]
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Why torrent an ISO when you can download official ISOs from Microsoft?
See:
http://arstechnica.com/features/2012/06/blowing-away-bloatware-a-guide-to-reinstalling-windows-on-a-new-pc/ [arstechnica.com]
Some alternate languages here:
http://www.mydigitallife.info/download-windows-7-iso-official-32-bit-and-64-bit-direct-download-links/ [mydigitallife.info]
Answer: GPL4 (Score:5, Funny)
Time for RMS to add a "NewEggization" clause to GPL4.
Where are my discs? (Score:5, Insightful)
If I were to buy a laptop with Windows (heavens forbid), then I'd expect installation media to go with it. I can understand NewEgg not fielding support questions on every flavor of Unix, but my grandmother should be able to restore the laptop to mint (pun intended) condition by inserting a DVD.
If NewEgg fails to deliver that, then there's the problem, not a user installing something else.
Re:Where are my discs? (Score:5, Informative)
Virtually no vendors these days include a restore CD. Instead they include a junkware riddled "restore partition." Microsoft stopped letting them include clean OEM install CDs years ago.
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The way it used to be done (haven't actually tested this in a long time) was that they included a restore partition and software that would build a restore CD based on the restore partition.
That way you could create a restore CD months after you first used the computer and it'd still give you a clean install.
Why? A CD is a few pence; putting a slightly different image on the hard disk is zero.
It's a side-effect of the desperate race to the bottom PCs have become.
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Virtually no vendors these days include a restore CD. Instead they include a junkware riddled "restore partition." Microsoft stopped letting them include clean OEM install CDs years ago.
Just one more bar in the jail called Windows Hell[tm]. Well, it will all start to become a fading memory when BYOD fills first the corporate world with Android and Apple devices, then the domestic world. The writing on the wall says that Microsoft's desktop business is due to wither to smaller than their console business over the next 5 years. And without the desktop monopoly to create the tie in Microsoft's server business will start to wither too. After a while Microsoft will be a console vendor of a stat
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Funny, the Dell I bought December 2011 came with restore disk - and none of that crapware that was installed on the system comes with the restore. And the Dell I got in March 2012 was the same way... but maybe the difference is I'm buying as a "small/home office" as opposed to a "home user" ? I do this anyway for the better warranty and better quality hardware...
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Do any PCs come with installation media anymore? As far as I've seen, you have to burn it yourself from a partition.
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Hell, Apple doesn't anymore, and they were one of the last to do so (even putting it on a thumbdrive - the pre-Lion OS X MacBook Airs had a restore thumbdrive).
The only thing Apple does now is internet restore - connect your Mac to an internet connection and it'll download and restore for you, kinda inconvenient.
Re:Where are my discs? (Score:4, Insightful)
If I were to buy a laptop with Windows (heavens forbid), then I'd expect installation media to go with it. I can understand NewEgg not fielding support questions on every flavor of Unix, but my grandmother should be able to restore the laptop to mint (pun intended) condition by inserting a DVD.
If NewEgg fails to deliver that, then there's the problem, not a user installing something else.
You haven't bought any laptops in a while, have you? I haven't seen installation media coming with hardware in years. At best, you got a disc that would blow away the entire drive and re-image it...but these days there isn't enough room on a disc to do that, so laptops come with "recovery" partitions. Also, there are the inevitable manufacturer-specific utilities that come with the machine, and you usually need specific drivers in the course of the installation, so just including a Windows 7 install disc doesn't cut the mustard either.
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However, they generally run Ubuntu considerably better than they run Windows. I have four Lenovos, and other emmbers of the family ahve two. The (windows) wireless drivers are very flakey and you cant scroll with two fingers.
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NewEgg (Score:3)
NewEgg long ago stopped being the go-to site for tech stuff and went full on commercial.
Re:NewEgg (Score:5, Interesting)
So what is the go-to site for tech stuff?
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Best Buy obviously. DUH!!!
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if you want a good laptop, but apple
it's ^nix and you can do almost everything to fool around like in linux
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Go in person to MicroCenter.
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Thank you. (Score:2, Troll)
Thank you, now I know to never buy absolutely anything from this company and never recommend it to anyone, as a matter of fact warning people about buying anything from them would be the responsible thing to do.
Re:Thank you. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Thank you. (Score:5, Informative)
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Thank you, now I know to never buy absolutely anything from this company and never recommend it to anyone, as a matter of fact warning people about buying anything from them would be the responsible thing to do.
Personally, I continue to shop with them. They have a good selection, reasonable prices, and they ship quickly. Returns have never been a problem for me. In the original posters case, if he had restored the machine to factory settings (returned the product in the state it was shipped), he would have had no problems. Most (all?) machines shipping with Windows ship with a recovery partition that you can boot into to restore the machine to the way you got it. If you want to blow away the recovery partition, th
I had issues too (Score:5, Informative)
I bought a refurb laptop from Newegg a couple of months ago and received it with an obvious screen defect. The CSR was very nice and helpful and got me an RMA and a UPS label and all that lickety split, no hassle. I sent it in and got an email update a few days later that there was nothing wrong and they were sending it back. So I called in again and this CSR was very helpful too and got me the refund with very little hassle again.
I don't know what's going on in their laptop repair department.... a manager that doesn't care?
Any time I've had to interact with a Newegg CSR, this time and others, things have been splendid and I've never had an issue getting a problem resolved.
What credit cards are for (Score:5, Insightful)
This is probably just a garden-variety fuckup.
This is why you only buy high-dollar value items on a credit card. Call the card issuer and tell them the merchant refused to accept the product.
Just mail back an empty envelope for $3 (Score:3)
(2) Wait 30 days, then file a credit card dispute saying "I returned this broken item, and newegg accepted it (Delivery Confirmation Number: 279279490242), but they have failed to refund the money.
(3) Done. These stores sign a contract with a credit card company & it states they will accept returns of broken items. It's the credit company's form of a warranty. (If stores don't like it, then they can refuse to sign the contract.)
And before some fool says this is "stealing" or whatever..... you're right! It is stealing. Newegg stole from a citizen by selling JUNK and not honoring the warranty. IMHO they should have their license of incorporation revoked by the government. But a refund on the broken item is good too. Consumer protection law sides with the customer not the jackassmegacorp.
Article is Misleading (Score:5, Insightful)
While I'm not saying that NewEgg's failing to provide the customer service they've been known for, the following does need to be made clear: Installing Linux in no way voids the manufacturer's warranty. If you RTFA, you'll clearly see in the NewEgg letter the following sentence:
"If you are still unsatisfied with this product or experience further issues, we recommend contacting the manufacturer directly for support."
Clearly the hardware failed. Clearly the owner can have the laptop repaired / replaced by contacting Lenovo. NewEgg's just not willing to facilitate the process.
NewEgg likes Linux fine (Score:3)
With any low-cost reseller, you trade low prices for some types of restrictions. If you want a merchant who will take back anything without restriction (such as Nordstroms) you need to spend more for the privilege. There are thousands of small businesses that would give you unlimited support and take your system back--but they charge a more.
Its not like they are sticking you with a dead product--they are just making you go through the standard factory service to get it repaired.
Old Policy, still used... (Score:5, Informative)
Old news. This has been Neweggs policy for a while now...
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/97248/index.html [lxer.com]
http://parrot-farm.net/Newegg/Newegg.com%20Horror%20Story.html [parrot-farm.net]
I stopped buying computers from them in 2007 as well. (still get the occasinal HD or videocard)...
Sounds like a "Bad Egg" (Score:4, Informative)
I think the appearance of this story on Slashdot will raise enough of a stink within NewEgg to make them reconsider their position on this and similar issues. Their RMA techs need to be able to address HARDWARE issues when the issue is hardware. The OS is irrelevant. (mostly)
But we all know the risk of using an "other than Windows OS." But for the past... oh, I don't know... 10 years or more it seems like? I have always made it my practice to buy a new hard drive for any computer I buy. I remove the original HDD, slip it into an anti-static bag, label it and store it. THEN I begin installing my new OS... usually Linux.
This way, when/if I get an issue with hardware, I can pop the Windows drive back in and deal with the moronic tech support on the other end.
You can fight the system all day long, but it will have to take a lot more influence than I can muster to make things change.
I'm grateful that this story has made it to Slashdot. A lot of NewEgg customers will reconsider certain types of purchases from them or at least whether or not to buy it with a new HDD to drop into it.
I can definitely see things from NewEgg's perspective. They need to use cheap techs. Cheap techs aren't great techs. Also, they need to be able to process things in a timely manner. And if they don't happen to understand what they are looking at, it causes delay. Delay costs money. There could be more to it than that but I don't think Microsoft has played any role in this one.
This has happened to me (Score:5, Insightful)
While I clearly can't say everyone will get that response, I personally feel that it is important that those of us who run Linux stand up and make it known that we cannot be ignored just because we are not giving our money to either Microsoft or Apple.
Newegg RMA... (Score:3)
Newegg's RMA department seems to be a little crazy. I once received a scanner with a damaged box from them. When I opened the box, it was obvious that the power adapter had fallen out of the hole in the box sometime during shipping. Since neither they nor Epson could just send me a replacement adapter, I had to RMA the whole thing. The RMA was initially denied because I hadn't included all parts that shipped with the scanner.
A phone call cleared things up, but really? They didn't even read the RMA closely enough to see that the missing part was the entire point of the RMA?
Newegg is cracked (Score:4, Informative)
Newegg is not the company it once was.
I used Newegg for virtually every parts purchase for nine years (and I make or "guide" a lot of purchases, amounting to many thousands of dollars over that period), in part because they were among the first willing to ship internet orders to FPO/APO addresses of military personnel located overseas. I kept using Newegg at home, even when they weren't the cheapest, because of that courtesy when others (like Tiger) simply refused. Newegg also had excellent customer service on those rare occasions when I needed to return an item.
Last year, when upgrading a system, Newegg sent me a defective DDR3 stick. The twin-pack was, I think $23. I swapped the stick to another machine to verify that it was indeed defective. I submitted an RMA request to Newegg, and was shocked when I was told there would be a $2 restocking fee on the return.
Restocking fees are to cover the cost of inventorying and repackaging an item for resale. You can't resell a confirmed-defective item. There is no such thing as a valid restocking fee on a defective-item return. I went back and forth with Newegg for a couple of weeks on this, and they insisted that I would be charged a restocking fee for returning a defective item. I sent in the RMA, and they did indeed charge me for it.
I hope Newegg found that $2 worthwhile. It's the last they have gotten or ever will get from me or the many friends/family/colleagues that come to me for advice. I do find their website makes a great front-end for finding what I want to buy from Amazon or elsewhere, though.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
A killer poke? [wikipedia.org] Really?
If a driver bug can physically ruin hardware, the hardware is made wrong.
Re:We've become too comfortable. (Score:5, Insightful)
Which is not true, quite frankly.
Then logically just reinstalling Windows would void your warranty. I suspect they wouldn't have voided the return if it was running Windows.
Letting manufacturers dictate end user actions by threatening their hardware warranty is the nasty, nasty direction the computing world is taking. Just accepting it is probably the worst of all possible courses of action.
"If you use non-Windows platforms, you are lesser and will get screwed over. Accept it." That said, I don't know how many drivers are actually -reverse engineered- these days other than Nouveau.
Sorry if this comes off as rather snarky, but your argument basically falls into the growing anti-Linux, anti-anything-not-Windows bucket.
Re:We've become too comfortable. (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone disagrees with you and that means what, exactly?
Holy hell, it's the same terrible arguments being used to justify locking down mobile devices being applied to standard PC hardware. Wow.
By that logic the only OS we can ever use is Windows.
Good, because a car analogy would be exceedingly shitty.
Re: (Score:3)
By that logic the only OS we can ever use is Windows.
Not quite. By his(?) logic, the only OS we can ever use is the *EXACT COPY* of Windows sold with the machine.
Re: (Score:2)
Which leaves me thinking - is the HW in modern PCs that haphazard or is newegg (and others) trying to conserve a profit margin? I hope it's the latter.
Re:We've become too comfortable. (Score:5, Informative)
If I understand correctly, the Magnum Moss Warranty Act [cornell.edu] prohibits vendors from tying warranty coverage to branded components unless they can demonstrate that the failure was due to the third party component.
Re: (Score:2)
There was a lot of concern over damaged monitors and such in the '90s, but not a lot of damaged monitors (but not zero damaged monitors). That was a hardware flaw and was fixed, it can't happen anymore. If the driver can actually wreck the hardware it's because the hardware has a design flaw.
If the manufacturer would like to paper over the flaw, it could work with the Linux community on the driver.
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
We've forgotten the fact that essentially using Linux does void your warranty in most cases.
This is just plain untrue. Got some examples to support your claim that this is indeed true in most cases? Probably not, at least outside of sub-Saharan Africa, so let me explain how warranties work:
Limited hardware warranties are put in place so manufacturers/sellers can meet their legal obligations (and be competitive). No number of elaborate clauses allow a company to step away from its legal obligations. Mainstream and well known companies tend to exceed the minimum requirements of the law. It's a be
Re: (Score:3)
Be nice to your sibling.
Re: (Score:2)
She's expecting a full refund because the hardware is faulty.
Do you think that Newegg were going to put it in a box and sell it on to another customer? Most likely they'll ship it back to Lenovo and they'll have to fix it or scrap it.
That said, I thought everyone know that you reinstall Windows before returning a defective PC.
Re: (Score:3)
> You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back
So that means that I can't install "proprietary app of your choice" or "proprietary game of your choice" then?
It's a PC. It's built to be modified.
One of the first things I would do with a stock WinPC short of replacing the OS would be to install all of those little utilities that allow me to tweak those things that are supposed to be able to destroy they hardware if it's running Linux. I like to be able to see and di
Re: (Score:3)
You cannot do any sort of substantial alteration to it and expect them to take it back.
Changing the configuration of bits on the hard drive is not a "substantial alteration" to it, unless you're suggesting that the warranty should be voided the minute she runs the "First Time Setup" and puts her name into the thing.
Whether or not the OS is a "major selling point" is as irrelevant to whether or not hardware is defective as the OS itself is.
Re: (Score:3)
I just dd and bzip it onto my home server. Normally it's only a few gigabytes when compressed because mosf of the disk is full of zeros.
In fact, if most of the disk isn't full of zeros that's probably a good sign that they sold me a laptop that someone else had returned.