Fedora 16 Released 125
Karrde712 writes "Fedora 16 has just been released, bringing with it Gnome 3.2, KDE 4.7, GRUB2 and more!" Here are the full release notes; most users will probably want to jump to the list of changes for desktop users.
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i thought fedora releasenames are quite cool. but beefy miracle is just silly. All versions before had a nice sounding codename, and now something that silly. i wonder what they put up next, they need to have a similiarity with the previous one (the beefy miracle) there.
on the rest ... yeah, kde on fedora is pretty much okay. other (more minimalistic) WMs of course, too.
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Beefy miracle is F17.
F16 is called Verne (hence the underwater wallpaper)
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here is the quantification: fedora names [fedoraproject.org]
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Fork-of-GNOME-2 Foundation (Score:2)
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Fallback mode seems to be going away soon.
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... because it's just UNPOSSIBLE to put whatever desktop environment you want on it.
Given a choice between installing Random Distro X and having to build and install a completely new desktop environment or installing Random Distro Y which is sane out of the box, why would anyone pick the former?
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kheres kome khing kbout kde khat kust kothers khe khit kut kf ke.
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Because to install 3.5.x (as Trinity) you need to add a seperate repository, then yum install trinity-desktop.
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sudo yum groupinstall LXDE
Or just use Gnome 3 - I've never heard so much irrational complaining over what is a pretty solid (and very customizable) desktop etc....
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Or just use Gnome 3 - I've never heard so much irrational complaining over what is a pretty solid (and very customizable) desktop
etc....
Can you put a system monitor on that bar that runs across the top to display processor usage per core, temperature per core, processor frequency per core and ram in use?
If you can, without adding some third party repo, let me know how. I'm running XFCE4 and Trinity, but neither seems as complete or polished as Gnome2.
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Not sure that takes care of all your requirements, but it gets you at least somewhat there.
Fedora packages a lot of extensions for gnome-shell - I expect that the number and quality of them will only get better and better.
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It's undeniably getting there. It will take time, but it's getting there. Take a gander at what Linux Mint did with Gnome3 using extensions. Sure looks like [linuxmint.com] it's gonna work [linuxmint.com] as good as Gome2 to me. Never thought I would be saying this as early as this. I didn't have high expectations at all.
Re:With Gnome 3 (Score:4, Informative)
Doesn't quite meet you requirements, but let's hope it does soon. You probably know about it but anyway : Try this [github.com]
I find that it is a bit hit and miss on machines (not always works) but when it does, it works well.
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XFCE and LXDE don't have all the administration tools that Gnome3 has. No utility to configure fingerprint readers (my laptop has one) for example.
ever try it, or you just post what you THINK works (Score:1)
nope, certain gnome dot files will screw up xfce4. you'd have to remove GNOME desktop first, and then delete some dot files in home directory. the truth is that fedora is geared to about two desktops and xfce isn't one
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Uh, yeah, I tried it in other Fedora releases, and didn't happen to run into those problems. I could log into Xfce, Gnome, KDE, and LXDE in turn using a login selector without any problems.
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I can't imagine any case where this would happen.
Have you reported any bugs on it? Not against Fedora Xfce apparently, since I've never seen them (I'm one of the Fedora Xfce maintainers).
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guess you don't read the fedora forums, then
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most developers don't read forums, as they're incredibly inefficient; just keeping up with Bugzilla is enough work. so if you want a dev to see your issue, file it as a bug, not a forum post.
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Indeed. Although in this case, I do in fact read the forums. ;) ( if you are talking about fedoraforum?).
I don't recall seeing any such bug.
As Adam notes, filing an actual bug is much more likely to get folks attention, but if you note your forum post I'd be happy to reply to you there too.
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or KDE, or LXDE, or...
really now... so hard...
wrong (Score:2)
you will have all manner of problems if you still have GNOME and its files around. the proper way would be to uninstall GNOME desktop and erase all the dot files that could fuck xfce up, and there are a few. I tried Fedora as one possibility to fleeing ubuntu, but quite frankly the alternative desktops either aren't as well stocked for serious admin of the machine, or have conflicts
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Maybe. But funny thing - I did just that in the past without any problems.
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Not the case. Many people have GNOME/KDE/Xfce/LXDE installed. Simply select which you wish to use on login...
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it is the case, things in .config .local and .X* can cause problems. I've seen this going from ubuntu to xubuntu, fedora GNOME to xfce, debian with gnome to xfce
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Re:With Gnome 3 (Score:4, Interesting)
Ok, if you insist.
Fedora has nearly always been extremely quick (sometimes too much so) to adopt new software and features. It would be shocking if they didn't have Gnome 3. Most of the time, this means Fedora is the most technically advanced major Linux distro. It also makes it one of the buggiest. Don't use it if you don't want to play around with cutting edge new Linux software (versions). Simple as that.
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so forget it.
So just install KDE already. KDE 4.x has been usable for years.
In any case, this is reason enough for me to start performing Fedora installs:
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/Release_Notes/sect-Release_Notes-Changes_for_Sysadmin.html#id1439594 [fedoraproject.org]
That means seamless user sharing between F16 and Debian-based distros.
Applefication of the Desktop - Re:With Gnome 3 (Score:2)
Applefication (The doctrine that designers know better than users, and that users should not worry their tiny little minds about how to configure something to be useful for them) of desktops and applications may be fine for Sheeple, but not for people who want to get the most out of their desktops.
GNOME 3 is a total disaster, it is simply unworkable for people who actually want to do serious work - unless your use of a computer is somewhat trivial and you're happy with what appears to be something that se
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I had a similar opinion before I started using Gnome 3. Now I know that Gnome 3 is all about extensibility. They are in the right path, IMHO.
That said, I agree that right now it really sucks.
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just like KDE 4.0.
KDE4 is good since 4.2 or something like this.
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Indeed, it is looking good. I'm installing it right now. Perhaps it will be my DE while GNOME 3 sucks. After two weeks using it, the bugs and lack of features are starting to really get on my nerves.
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That's what I've done - stayed on F14. I'm planning on checking out 16, but, I don't like a lot of the changes they've been making (systemctl can DIAF).
Dedicated to Dennis Ritchie (Score:5, Informative)
It should be noted in the article.
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Dennis Richie co-invented the C programing language and Unix. He also wrote the definitive C programing book of its time.
Grub2? (Score:3)
Re:Grub2? (Score:5, Funny)
Just wait until GRUB3 comes out. You won't even need to boot an OS with that. The question is whether GRUB3 will include Xfce or just be GNOME only.
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They're actually listing grub2 as an UPGRADE?
Start a new bootloader project and call it GRUB3 and people will just switch to it because it has a bigger number.
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Because it's one more!
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GRUB2 is certainly an upgrade for EFI-based systems. I had to download and build my own copy of GRUB2 to run Fedora from an external USB disk on a Mac. (The Bootcamp BIOS emulation thing only allows use of the first internal disk. And it means you're still dealing with BIOS.)
The GRUB2 BIOS systems I'm running seem to behave themselves, but that's only a couple of test VMs.
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It seems that on all non-UEFI systems (like my Thinkpad T510), a separate, small 1 MB "BIOS Boot Partition" needs to be created, which is not the same as a partition on
Is this extra "BIOS Boot Partition" partition really necessary on non-UEFI machines? Why cant we use
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"Is this extra "BIOS Boot Partition" partition really necessary on non-UEFI machines?"
Yes.
"Why cant we use /boot for that?"
BIOS boot partition replaces the empty space behind the MBR on MS-DOS labelled partitions, where bootloaders used to expand themselves. You can't use /boot because the BIOS boot partition exists *for the convenience of the bootloader* - i.e. it's part of the bootloader, really, not part of the installed OS. You only need one no matter how many OSes (and /boot partitions) you have.
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Well...we actually don't use grub2 for EFI, because grub2-efi tested out to be really buggy. if you do an EFI install of F16 you get grub-legacy.
(In hindsight that was a bad call because it made all manner of things way more complex than they should be, but hey, hindsight is 20/20, right?)
we'll go grub2 for EFI whenever it stops sucking so much. probably F17 or F18.
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I hear you, it does feel like a downgrade. On the other hand, grub1 is not working for me. I upgraded to Fedora 16 last night. At first GRUB2 gave me simply "GRUB", and GRUB1 gave me "Error 16". I tried multiple tricks to get GRUB1 working, and was unsuccessful. What I finally ended up having to do was use GRUB and make the empty space at the beginning of the drive 2047 blocks instead of the previous 62. To do this I had to backup the contents of /boot, repartition, redo raid1, format it, and copy the data
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That's https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=737508 [redhat.com] .
Frankly, we rather feel grub2 is something of a downgrade too. Or at least an unnecessary pain in the ass. Fedora isn't going to grub2 because we think it's way better than grub - we don't. Fedora's going to grub2 because it's what upstream supports, and we're tired of having an entire person who does nothing but keep grub-legacy working now upstream doesn't care about it any more.
Spare the mirror sites, use the torrents (Score:4, Informative)
Fedora torrents are located here [fedoraproject.org].
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Damn leachers, I'm getting 700k up and I'm only at 74%
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Sorry html formatting snafu, should be -lt 200k down and -gt 700k
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Maybe nice for a home desktop ... (Score:3)
,,, were it not for Gnome by default. But I've yet to see anything (and it would take a lot, so I'm not expecting it) to overcome their overly short support cycles. I need something better to use this at work, for either the desktops (we only use Windows where there is absolutely no other choice, which makes a grand total of 2) or the servers (0). But even Ubuntu's slow (in some cases) security updates are starting to bother me (over an issue they haven't yet updated in my one-version-behind system even though Slackware fixed the same one over a month ago in versions all the way back to 2007).
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Yeah, because it's REALLY hard to type "yum install kde-desktop" (package spelling might be a bit off on this release, but it's as simple as that) and get a coffee.
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Yeah, because it's REALLY hard to type "yum install kde-desktop" (package spelling might be a bit off on this release, but it's as simple as that) and get a coffee.
Well if you got the DVD (3.7GB - best if you have two or more machines to upgrade) you could just tick the KDE check-box if you want and install both. Of course if you don't want Gnome you can un-tick the Gnome check-box. As for creating a DVD I normally create a boot-able install USB which is very portable, does not scratch and I can reuse it again for the next release or even other things.
Even if you do a DVD/USB install you will still need to type "yum update" (as root of course) or the use the GUI upd
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if support cycles are important, then Fedora isn't for you. It's intended to be the latest, cutting-edge software which itself takes so much time and energy to put together that supporting older versions becomes a drain on newer version development. It's essentially Red Hat's public test lab, and one of the reasons that they don't formally support upgrading between distros (especia
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Nothing wrong with CentOS 6 for work desktops (Score:2)
Now that there's a continuous repository for CentOS 6, it's a pretty obvious Linux desktop to use in a work environment. It means GNOME 2, Sys V init scripts (i.e. stuff that works!) and updates for 7 years. If you're like me, you'll maintain a handful of packages manually (I have scripts to create RPMs of the latest Firefox and Thunderbird, plus I install the latest LibreOffice too), but with useful repos like EPEL, RPMforge and ELrepo filling in the remaining gaps, it's a pretty stable setup and a much mo
More fixing of things that weren't broken (Score:1)
GNOME 3, systemd, autokey, just to name a few. Now they're saying that everything belongs in /usr/bin.
Those who don't understand UNIX are doomed to re-invent it, badly. Evidently, as Fedora.
Maybe I'm just getting too old for this, but I'd rather have improvements in the tools that work than to have to learn a completely new tool every year because somebody decided that the old way is wrong because they didn't invent it. I guess Vim will be on the block next.
Are we, as a community, absolutely certain that
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If you don't like people moving things around, just be glad you never tried GoboLinux. Personally I quite like it, but you do have to negotiate a completely new system tree. Moving things into /usr/bin is tame in comparison.
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You do understand the reason why we have a /usr/bin and /usr/sbin , right?
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I'm not arguing for changing from splitting into /sbin and /bin - I was just mentioning a Linux with far more extreme changes than those that Fedora make, mainly for interest's sake. I've got no issue with keeping /usr/bin, /sbin, /usr/sbin and /usr/local/bin separate, though I must admit it's not something that keeps me awake at night. (Likewise anything under /opt/bin, /opt/local/bin, or any other binary directory you choose to include.)
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I'll bet you still have DrDOS and Windows for Workgroups with MS BOB on your servers.
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MS BOB on a server...that seriously makes me LOL.
LOLBOB.
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1. you never had to quickly restore a production DB by shoving the
2. yen never had to painstakingly twiddle a broken server using statically linked
Kids these days, they think all there is to UNIX is a LAMP image on the Cloud...
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This is Fedora. When accused of being a testbed for RHEL, their devs respond by claiming that no Fedora is a testbed for much more. Fedora has never claimed to offer a stable desktop system, so I don't know why you'd complain it not providing a stable desktop system.
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My /boot is 485MB with 83% free, do you think that will be enough, because pre-upgrade failed for the F14 to F15 preupgrade for me.
BTRFS default didn't make it in? (Score:1)
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it was, but due to a incomplete fsck.btrfs, they decided against it.
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Still not so sure (Score:1)
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Now with Kermit! (Score:2)
Since Kermit has been embroiled in some rather obscure licensing issues over the years, from the project's name to the open-source license, I was surprised to see ckermit included in Fedora at all. As it turns out, Columbia University shut down the Kermit project earlier this year. Kermit is now really open-source. http://www.kermitproject.org/ [kermitproject.org]
Important note about nvidia/rpmfusion and F16 (Score:2)
If you use nvidia drivers with Fedora -- or at very least, do so with the aid of rpmfusion -- you may want to hold off on upgrading to F16.
To see if you should wait, run the following command:
nvidia-settings -q AccelerateTrapezoids
If you get nothing returned (or more accurately, two CRLFs), you will probably want to hold off on upgrading F15 -> F16. Looks like there is a bug in the nvidia drivers which can cause some pretty severe performance degradation.
Specifically, any card that can't handle trapezoi
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I didn't get the warning in time and upgraded. Turns out I'm affected and hadn't even nailed down the issue until I saw your post. It not HORRIBLE per se, but it is mildly annoying. It manifests itself as a momentary system lock up, kind of like what happens when you run out of RAM and start swapping to disk. It's not continuous, there are periods of heavy occurrance, and of light occurrance.
Should be fixed soon it sounds like. It's tolerable for that period of time.
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You won't get anything if your GPU doesn't support it. The bug in question was causing any GPU that doesn't support AccelerateTrapezoids to revert to non-accelerated mode, IIRC.
Look elsewhere for a Linux distro (Score:1)
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rpm = really poor package management.
You don't normally use "rpm" much less "deb" packages as is unless you know what the package dependences are. This is why you use "yum" for managing "rpm" packages and "apt-get" for managing "deb" packages and if you want you can use "alien" to translate between "deb" and "rpm". Of course you can always download the source and try to compile it. if you don't like that then MS Windows will welcome you back with "All is forgiven, just don't do it again" and promptly give you a blue (green if you have Win 8) s
Its more disappointing than Fedora 15. (Score:2)
The welcome screen is a big black blob of window, and the interface is no better than Fedora 15. The net benefit is the newer kernel. My first efforts with newer software versions, met with failed to launch, and bugzilla core dumps being forwarded.
Here is an interesting idea for an improvement. In the bottom right corner, allow the gnome 2 desktop switcher to appear. It allows us with one click to move from desktop to desktop with a single click, and allows Gnome3 to please the email/internet users.