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KDE GUI BSD Linux Technology

Sneak Preview For Coming KDE SC 4.5 249

Posted by timothy
from the one-moment-in-time dept.
omlx writes "KDE SC 4.5 is in feature freeze right now. Therefore, I decided to share some early screenshots with you. In general there are no major changes; it's all about polishing and fixing bugs. There are a lot of under-the-hood changes in libs, which as end users we cannot see. KDE SC will be released in August 2010." Note: you can also try out a beta of the release now, if you'd like.
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Sneak Preview For Coming KDE SC 4.5

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  • YUCK (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @06:19PM (#32354246)

    Give us back 3.5 with Konqueror.

  • KDE (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Jason Quinn (1281884) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @06:24PM (#32354318)
    After loathing 4.0, and 4.1, and 4.2... I finally gave the newest release a shot. It was worse than ever! KDE seems to be going backwards. In the end, KDE will do nothing except being about to rotate an analog clock.
  • by QCompson (675963) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @06:50PM (#32354604)
    ...I still (still!) have a bad taste in my mouth from that horrible trainwreck of a 4.0 release, and how Aaron Seigo and other KDE devs defended the release strategy. And still do to this day! I think that debacle really hurt the KDE project in the longterm. Big software projects like google-chrome still aren't flocking to QT and KDE.

    It's a fairly nice desktop environment, but it's obvious that the focus (for the desktop user experience at least) has always been eye-candy first and stability later. I understand they needed the lay down the framework initially, but shouldn't that framework have at least been somewhat stable before worrying about all the translucent crap and literal bells and whistles? Plasma is still prone to crashing last I checked (4.4). I know, I know... different contributors want to work on different things, and many prefer to work on the eye-candy junk. But to me that just points out how terrible the KDE project has been in managing and organizing KDE4.

    And this "SC" crap? Who possibly thought that was needed, or was even remotely a good idea?
  • Re:KDE (Score:2, Insightful)

    by MrHanky (141717) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:03PM (#32354764) Homepage Journal

    I've done plenty of real work in KDE 4.x, efficiently, which is hard proof that you're wrong. It's fairly easy to use by default, on all distros I've tried it on (Arch, Debian, Fedora, Kubuntu), so I can only assume you're severely mentally challenged.

  • by brennanw (5761) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:07PM (#32354794) Homepage Journal

    I like KDE 4.4 (which is what I'm using now) -- I like it a lot -- but I'm right there with you about the bad taste in my mouth. The way they handled 4.0 was stupid and they deserved all the crap they got for it and more.

    4.4 is a completely different beast and I mostly love the featureset. However, based on my experience with 4.0 I'm a little afraid of 5.0.

  • by MrHanky (141717) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:07PM (#32354798) Homepage Journal

    Oh, shut up, or start complaining about OS X 10.0 every time there's something new about Apple. You know that OS X was only half-way to beta quality on release as well?

  • Re:YUCK (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MrHanky (141717) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:09PM (#32354824) Homepage Journal

    "We"? Are you a self-centered moron or what?

  • by QCompson (675963) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:14PM (#32354884)
    And Windows 7 was mostly polished on release, and has received a very good reception. Which example should software projects follow?

    If the KDE team wanted to temper down expectations on the release of KDE4.0, then they shouldn't have had a big google release party and been extolling KDE4's virtues for months before. Yes, we're still talking about the 4.0 release, because frankly, it took the KDE team a long time to limp to a somewhat usable 4.2.
  • Re:Terrible (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Spewns (1599743) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:18PM (#32354930)

    As a GNOME user, I don't like this at all, and I have no idea why anyone would want to use KDE. I can't stand a desktop environment where I'm able to choose how to configure it, or worse, where others can configure their desktops differently from mine. That's why I like GNOME: it removes all these confusing options, and just gives me the minimum. Desktops need to be as simple as possible, so that users like me aren't confused, and extra options goes against this. KDE is just too complicated, and I can't understand it.

    It isn't about being "confused" or somehow not smart enough to use KDE. It's about lacking the time/patience to make a bunch of crappy, poorly thought-out software bearable by spending an inordinate amount of time in baroque Options dialogues for every new program they open.

  • by MrHanky (141717) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:27PM (#32355032) Homepage Journal

    What? Windows 7 (Windows NT 6.1) is very good, but it followed up on Vista (Windows NT 6.0), which was received with ridicule and loud complaints after years of hype and abandoned technologies (WinFS, etc). Vista was released early 2007, Windows 7 was released October 2009. KDE 4.0 was released January 2008. If KDE 4 were to have its "Windows 7 moment", it would be right about now. Well, if the KDE project had Microsoft's resources, that is.

  • Re:YUCK (Score:4, Insightful)

    by HBoar (1642149) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:32PM (#32355096)
    That's funny, because I (and a lot of other uses) am perfectly happy with KDE 4.4 and wouldn't go near gnome with a 3.048m barge pole...
  • by moogsynth (1264404) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:38PM (#32355170)
    The Plasma desktop doesn't crash for me. Maybe you need to check with your package maintainers about that. But you know what? The bitterness about 4.0 comes up in every single goddamned KDE thread. But it just doesn't matter any more. Seriously. KDE 4.4 is stable enough, and it looks like 4.5 is going to be even better. It's okay. You can let go.
  • by QCompson (675963) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:53PM (#32355342)

    It took Google less than a second to turn "kde sc branding" into http://dot.kde.org/2009/11/24/repositioning-kde-brand [kde.org]

    I already understood what they were trying to accomplish with their silly renaming... and gawd, that convoluted explanation only makes it worse. Why is the KDE team spending so much time creating arbitrary new naming conventions? No one cares. IMO it comes off as pompous. Similar to when they were insisting that a .0 release signifies extreme beta or alpha quality software.

  • by MrHanky (141717) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @07:53PM (#32355356) Homepage Journal

    Windows 7 wouldn't be the quality release it is without the beta testing done through the full release of Windows Vista. Without Vista, Windows 7 wouldn't be. Or it would be ... Windows Vista.

  • by abigor (540274) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @08:15PM (#32355616)

    You get emotional about software you didn't even write? Honestly, take a good hard look at your life.

  • by victorhooi (830021) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @08:53PM (#32356088)

    heya,

    You know, I don't think it was that bad.

    Look, fine so it was a bit unpolished, but it's much more polished now. I have a feeling that it wouldn't be where it is now if they hadn't had the exposure they had, or if people hadn't gone on long rants on blogs on what they thought should change. Those comments helped get us to where we are now.

    Sure, they probably could have been clearer in the communication, but I distinctly remember they saying that this was a "beta" release in many ways, and they just wanted to get broad user feedback. (And look, even people's beloved OSX - remember the point zero release of that? Pftt, it was even more laughable...yet they still hold Apple up as the panacea of polish nowadays. Double standards, some?).

    Anyhow, I don't get all these silly whiners (this isn't directed at you in particular, btw), and their OH NOES, KDE 3.5 IS BETTER!!!. Nobody forced you to switch to 4.x. Either offer some constructive criticism, and file a bug report, or crawl back to your hole. It's not like you're forced to update to 4.x, for God's sake. And all this melodrama about how it killed the project, please. It's really starting to get painful to read.

    It's nearly as bad as those immature little children on the Google Chrome Release blog, complaining about moving the bookmark star, or removing the "http://" from the URL bar - then threatening to leave for Firefox. E.g.:

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8982037438137564684&postID=3927710196423305305&isPopup=true&pli=1 [blogger.com]
    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=8982037438137564684&postID=2192823456516189106&isPopup=true [blogger.com]

    Look, the Google team wrote the damn thing, if you don't like something, file a bug report or make a constructive blog post, but don't make these ridiculous and pathetically immature demands about how they "have" to change something, or you'll cry like a baby. It's just like the KDE team - they wrote it, if you don't like something, *talk* to them, they will listen, but please don't whine just for whining's sake. Grow up, kids.

    Cheers,
    Victor

  • by victorhooi (830021) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @08:57PM (#32356138)

    heya,

    Mod parent up.

    He's absolutely right. At the end of the day, the KDE 4.x series moved as quickly as it did, probably because of broad user feedback. nothing beats good quality user feedback, or having people rant on their blogs about how software X should have feature Y etc.

    And look, they weren't exactly unclear about it - they stated fairly openly that it was a beta-ish release, and they were trying to get user feedback. It's an open-source project, release early, release often.

    Put it this way, if you can install KDE/Linux, I'm sure you can put up with a bit of quirkiness in your desktop manager, or file a bug report.

    (Actually, ironically, I've worked with a lot of non-technical users, and for some things, they seem to just ignore/accept changes, weirdly enough - they just assume it's part of the "magic" of this black box. Weird but true).

    Cheers,
    Victor

  • Re:KDE (Score:2, Insightful)

    by wizardforce (1005805) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @08:58PM (#32356152) Journal

    KDE4 to work exactly the way you want. It's very flexible, compared to all the others

    Except KDE 3.5. KDE4.x was all about making KDE look pretty instead of making it more customizable i.e. useful like KDE3.5.x is. If I wanted a D.E. that abandoned customization as a virtue I'd use Gnome.

  • by oogoliegoogolie (635356) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @08:59PM (#32356162)
    Oh dear, OS X 10.0 was at least usable, and it replaced an aging OS that needed replacing. KDE 4.0 was unusable, unstable, immature, and about as configurable as my alarm clock, and replaced a simple and better desktop that did not need any replacement.
  • by syousef (465911) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @09:00PM (#32356168) Journal

    You get emotional about software you didn't even write? Honestly, take a good hard look at your life.

    When your business or hobby relies on it, what do you expect|? And honestly if the same people are in charge, how can anyone let it go? There's every chance they'll do something equally daft in the near future.

  • Get off my lawn. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by aussersterne (212916) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @09:03PM (#32356214) Homepage

    I learned C on a Sun 3/50 running SunOS loaded from DC6150 tapes. I installed Linux for the first time in '93 and still have boxes of floppies containing every Slackware release up to 4.0.

    I started using KDE with beta3, before 1.0, and didn't stop until 3.5.

    Don't give me this "go back go Windows" shit.

    Saying "it works for me, therefore there are no bugs" is precisely the sort of half-ass response that has been holding Linux adoption back for a decade.

    Look around you. Every time there is a KDE4 story, there are posts here complaining about it.

    Filing bug reports is fine, but some of us have real work to do, and draw the line at filing more than one or two bug reports a month. More than that = switch to another platform.

    Funny that GNOME seems to be able to manage multiple monitors in a predictable fashion, while on KDE4 every other reboot, dock, or undock leads to the loss of desktop state in one way or another, requiring reconfiguration or just a total removal of KDE dotfiles and starting over from scratch (which can be much faster).

    KDE4 chased away a lot of longtime KDE users. They're not coming back so long as GNOME works better. Call us names if you want. I don't care, I have no vested interest in using KDE. I also have no vested interest in using GNOME and it looks like I will be switching to XFCE with the GNOME 3.0 release because it's looking not-so-good. My time is too valuable to spend it "trying to make XYZ work," whether XYZ is KDE, GNOME, or anything else.

    If it isn't bulletproof obvious at the first go, it's a fail. This isn't 1995 any longer. This is 2010, and there are plenty of examples of spectacular and spectacularly usable user interfaces around that require zero maintenance or "figuring out" by their users.

    The Linux desktop world is starting to feel like a place where TWM is once again top-of-the-heap.

  • by QCompson (675963) on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @09:17PM (#32356352)

    He's absolutely right. At the end of the day, the KDE 4.x series moved as quickly as it did, probably because of broad user feedback. nothing beats good quality user feedback, or having people rant on their blogs about how software X should have feature Y etc.

    Which is why naming it "beta" would have been just fine. Frankly, I don't think the KDE team were very receptive to user feedback after 4.0; I think the wave of harsh criticism and trolling caused them to be a little more inflexible about their version of the "new paradigm".

    And look, they weren't exactly unclear about it - they stated fairly openly that it was a beta-ish release, and they were trying to get user feedback. It's an open-source project, release early, release often.

    From what I recall, the vast majority of the beta-ish, eat-your-children talk was made after the initial release, while facing a storm of criticism. I remember there being lots of hype prior to the release. I also remember the concerns about 4.0 beta, when the general answer seemed to be: "it's still beta, a lot of these bugs will be ironed out". There was little stability change from the beta stage of the project to the "final" 4.0 stage.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday May 26, 2010 @11:38PM (#32357626)

    While the GP has some valid and some invalid points, I will try to make one at least tangent case-in-point.

    KMail -- indeed, all of KDE PIM -- does not yet use Akonadi and they're delaying it yet another month. From 3.5.x where you had a fully integrated PIM that sync'd did other cool things but the devs didn't like the back end, to now the devs love the back end but can't use it. And the end users are left with an incomplete PIM that was working before.

    And that's what chafes most people. KDE has turned into a "my fancy ideas" playground for developers, and while none of those ideas in and of themselves are bad, what _was_ working for user doesn't anymore, and what is working they could care less about. It's not a flame war. But only one sides interests are really being served.

    So, I tell myself, if it took until 3.5.10 to get that all sorted and working, maybe I'll check in again around the 4.5.10 timeframe and see if we're close again. Here's hoping. But as for me, I just want a desktop to do what I care about. Some days that's tinkering, so options are good. But most days, it's shells and email and other normal boring life stuff. Not semantic social desktops.

        In the end, that's why I went to another DE and other apps in the meantime -- a lot of those apps are now online services, because I sure don't want to convert from mbox to maildir to mbox to MH... so, yes, they are losing ground. No, it's not important. We will find another way in the meantime. Just don't expect those loyal 3.5.x users to come back when the dust has settled.

From Sharp minds come... pointed heads. -- Bryan Sparrowhawk

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