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Graphics The Gimp Linux Technology

GIMP Dropped From Ubuntu 10.04 900

Posted by Soulskill
from the should-have-used-the-fireman's-carry dept.
kai_hiwatari writes "It looks like the Ubuntu developers consider GIMP to be too powerful for a normal desktop user. They are removing it from the upcoming Ubuntu 10.04. Among the reasons cited are that the UI is too complex, it takes up room on the disc, and 'desktop users just want to edit photos and they can do that in F-Spot.''"
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GIMP Dropped From Ubuntu 10.04

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  • by Albanach (527650) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:24AM (#30155806) Homepage

    Let's be clear - it's not removed from Ubuntu, it's removed from the default install.

    It's still a click away in the package manager.

    Sounds sensible to me. I'd imagine the vast majority of Ubuntu users are unlikely to use the gimp.

  • Eh. (Score:3, Informative)

    by fuzzyfuzzyfungus (1223518) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:28AM (#30155862) Journal
    This should more properly say "GIMP dropped from Default Ubuntu 10.04"

    If GIMP were actually being dropped(i.e. the devs said "fuck it, it isn't worth packaging for our repos, users who care can get it from a third party repo or build it from source.") that would be news, and bad news for GIMP. As it is, though, Ubuntu makes it trivial to find and install programs that are in the default repositories.
  • Re:Yep (Score:3, Informative)

    by lbbros (900904) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:30AM (#30155912) Homepage
    And perhaps you don't know that the upcoming GIMP 2.8 will feature a "single window mode". I tested it by compiling from the git repository: it still has a LOT of rough edges (that's unreleased software for you) but it's better than the present UI in my opinion. Even if it's just removed from the live CD, I find this move from Canonical to be borderline on stupid.
  • by Nerdposeur (910128) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:41AM (#30156050) Journal

    On Windows there's also my personal favorite, Paint.NET. It does WAY more than Paint, it's fast, and it's free. It ain't Photoshop, but it's all I need.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:42AM (#30156076)
    Gimp was originally built on Solaris using Motif. I used to work with Spencer and it had nothing to do with demonstrating the power and flexibility of free desktop systems.
  • by tepples (727027) <tepples@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:45AM (#30156136) Homepage Journal

    why do the developers of gimp refuse to change the name?

    "GNU Image Manipulation Program" is a program published by the GNU project that manipulates images. As a descriptive name, it's no worse than "Microsoft Internet Explorer".

  • Good (Score:1, Informative)

    by ledow (319597) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:46AM (#30156158) Homepage

    I may be just me but as a casual user, I'm glad someone else realises this.

    I use Irfanview for conversion, resizing, cropping and other basics (yes, even on Linux - sorry but it runs perfect on WINE and does 90% of what I need to do to get photos from digital media or my scanner, get them ready for going across the internet, onto various accounts, to relatives, etc. in a decent time). I use Paint Shop Pro, or the virtually identical but cheaper ancient-version-of-Serif-Photoplus that I still have, for anything more "fancy". With those I've done everything from creating panaromic photo images to creating individual bits of clipart, to doing curves, borders and backgrounds for websites and all sorts.

    But GIMP? Hell, I don't even know where to start whenever I load it. I've installed it dozens of times thinking I must be missing something that makes it easier to use but it's just not worth my time. The photoshop-modifications made it a million times simpler in a matter of seconds, why they aren't the default I can't fathom.

    Simple fact is, I specify software for schools. If they demand a free bit of software, we use Irfanview for scanning, conversion, cropping etc. and maybe Artweaver for anything that needs to be created. GIMP has never got past the "WTF is that" stage of its initial screens.

  • by beelsebob (529313) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:47AM (#30156170)

    Not forgetting on OS X Pixelmator [pixelmator.com] which is a truly *excellent* piece of software

  • Re:Download size (Score:3, Informative)

    by vondo (303621) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:47AM (#30156176)

    I just installed it on my kubuntu laptop. It's an 8 MB download. I just installed Lightroom 3 on Windows the other day. That's a 120 MB download.

  • Re:Download size (Score:5, Informative)

    by PixelSlut (620954) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:49AM (#30156188)
    No, it's not moved to universe. It's still in main. It's only being removed from the install CD and the default install. Yes, it sucks that you now have to download it if you're really using it, but you also have to realize that the install CD is *extremely* packed already and it's getting very hard to find a few remaining bytes to add things that Ubuntu considers more important to the default install and experience.
  • Re:What is F Spot? (Score:2, Informative)

    by drumbug1 (1140947) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:49AM (#30156190)
    Your google is broken, eh?

    apt-cache search f-spot
    sudo apt-get install f-spot
    http://f-spot.org
  • by MrHanky (141717) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:49AM (#30156196) Homepage Journal

    Paint.mono [google.com] is the Linux port of that program. It exists, and it works, but it's miles away from the power of the Gimp. It's paint, not a photo editing application.

  • Re:Yep (Score:4, Informative)

    by jedidiah (1196) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:52AM (#30156244) Homepage

    In how many editors is the red-eye-removal tool something that actually manipulates the red layer of the image rather than just being a black paint tool?

    It seems stupid that Gimp is one of the few editors that will not mar your photos if you try to do red-eye removal on something like the cheek but it is true. The dang thing is a tad more complex than a "simple editor" needs to be but it at least gets the "technical details" of the process correct. The "simple tools" don't.

    I've been suggesting a "granny gimp" sort of UI theme for a long time.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:53AM (#30156282)

    He noted that it's for Windows.

    And there has been some success in getting Paint.NET to run on Linux: http://code.google.com/p/paint-mono/ [google.com]
    It may be unofficial, but it's a start and defeats your "probably never be available for Ubuntu" comment. Paint.NET is really quite nice.

  • by websitebroke (996163) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @09:56AM (#30156316)

    Actually, that's officially being worked on right now. [mmiworks.net]

    Personally, I like the multi-window layout, but I'll certainly give the single-window UI a shot.

  • by ProppaT (557551) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:01AM (#30156372) Homepage

    It's not that Gimp is too powerful for the normal desktop user, it's the fact that Gimp's user interface is way, way too confusing for anyone but those who REALLY want to learn it. I've been using Adobe and Corel paint/photoediting programs for 15 years now and, let me tell you, that knowledge does not necessarily translate to Gimp. It's like starting from scratch, and not in the "about time someone rebuilt this from the ground up" kind of way, more of the "what the hell were they thinking?" kinda way. Then again, it's open source. It's powerful software created by people who'd rather be using a command line anyway...

  • by Clover_Kicker (20761) <clover_kicker@yahoo.com> on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:03AM (#30156414)

    If you want Slackware you know where to find it.

  • by 0100010001010011 (652467) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:07AM (#30156464)

    Try Debian Unstable.
    It's almost always newer than Ubuntu. Stuff is updated very regularly and you don't have to mess around with PPAs.

  • by jedidiah (1196) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:09AM (#30156496) Homepage

    It actually alters the RED part of the eye. It won't just drop a blob of black on the image where ever you happen to click. It won't alter the image if there isn't a red eye there to be corrected.

    THIS is the problem with "moron interfaces". No one bothers to notice or care if the functional parts make sense.

    Oddly enough this makes the "complicated" interfaces easier to deal with since you have to clean up fewer mistakes and can be more crude with how you "aim" the tool.

  • by Rude Turnip (49495) <valuation@gm[ ].com ['ail' in gap]> on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:14AM (#30156604)

    Add a layer to crop in GIMP? I use GIMP a lot and all I do is select an area and crop it. It sounds like you're talking about masking, which is overkill for cropping something.

  • by Eugene O'Neil (140081) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:25AM (#30156794)

    No, what it's REALLY about is the amount of space it takes up on an install CD, and the fact that even your proverbial Grandmother could figure out how to install it off the internet with one mouse click using Ubuntu's amazingly slick package management interface.

    This story should have been titled "Ubuntu speeds up install process for people who don't select Gimp", except that would make it too obvious that there is no story worth writing about here.

  • by Crudely_Indecent (739699) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:30AM (#30156910) Journal

    The summary leaves a little of the story out. Per TFA, it's not included in the DEFAULT INSTALL, but isn't removed from the repositories and is still available for install.

    A simple sudo apt-get install gimp will install it on your system.

    The article makes it sound like Gimp won't be available. It may as well go on to list all of the other software that isn't installed by the default installer, but that list is extensive.

  • by ichimunki (194887) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:37AM (#30157024)

    Plus it's written in [expletive deleted] .NET, so it will probably never be available for Ubuntu

    That's funny, because Ubuntu is including F-Spot, which is written in C#.

  • by Abreu (173023) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @10:54AM (#30157402)

    In Ubuntu, newbies don't even have to call up a terminal

    Just open "Software Center" -> "Graphics" -> "Gimp" -> "Install"

  • Re:What is F Spot? (Score:3, Informative)

    by TheThiefMaster (992038) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:20AM (#30157940)

    "What is it and where is it?"

    Are you sure didn't mean G Spot? :)

    Which is the name of a program for identifying the codecs used in .avi files, so you know what to get to be able to play them.

    Seriously.

  • by DJRumpy (1345787) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:24AM (#30158010)

    I disagree. Serious users will know exactly what they need and download it. 'Regular' desktop users will do fine with FSpot.

    It's not as if they are banning GSpot from the desktop. People can always download it if they prefer.

  • by grumbel (592662) <grumbel@gmx.de> on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:25AM (#30158042) Homepage

    Gimp is a lot more intuitive than Photoshop if you're used to Gimp.

    It really isn't. Gimp lacks of toolbar is annoying (had to patch that in myself), the use of multiple windows gets in the way a lot, no proper line, circle, etc. tools (no, stroking/filling a selection is not the same), the palette editor is abominable, the brush dialog unsortable and there are many other weird little things, like that you have to Ctrl-Alt+mouse-button to just move a selection, that make Gimp less then perfect. And whats the point of the "Floating Selection", why isn't that a normal layer?

    The good thing is that Gimp is constantly improving, the bad thing is that it is doing so at a snails pace. Hopefully the availability of some competition will speed things up in the future, Krita is starting to look extremely good in terms of features, its just still a little to broken to be usable.

  • by Daengbo (523424) <daengbo@gmSTRAWail.com minus berry> on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:41AM (#30158346) Homepage Journal

    Hint -- GTK stands for GIMP ToolKit. Guess which came first.

  • Ubuntu Studio (Score:4, Informative)

    by kayoshiii (1099149) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:48AM (#30158484)
    Its worth noting that gimp will still be part of the default install for Ubuntu Studio. Should you require Gimp on a default install of some kind.
  • by Tetsujin (103070) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:48AM (#30158500) Homepage Journal

    I thought that the Gimp was originally a tech demo for GTK that kind of got a little out of hand.

    No, originally it was Motif-based. (There was a period where people were trying to muddle along with Motif-alternatives like Lesstif, and use those to get things like GIMP running...) I believe the switch to GTK was about the same time they added layers (early versions had channels only, I think)...

    GTK was introduced via the GIMP project. It was originally the "GIMP Toolkit"

    I've honestly never understood all the complaints about the GIMP interface...

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 19, 2009 @11:57AM (#30158688)

    I'm a graphics professional and have been using linux for about 10 years. I can safely say, all the times I've tried to use the GIMP even for simple tasks it's just pissed me off. The average user isn't going to attempt to use a program with that high of a learning curve with so little payoff. Online photo editing sites are better than this bloated piece of garbage.

    If the GIMP is supposed to be a pro grade piece of image editing software, how come they can't even get a professional to design the graphics on their website?

  • by pugugly (152978) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @12:06PM (#30158862)

    crap?!?

    I confess - I've tried several photo suites. I would love for Gimp to be as good as or better than photoshop, and it's not.

    It *is* 90% of photoshop, at 0% of the price, which is far more than any of the other (half-dozen) suites *I* have seen in various jobs. It has one major failing that they're working on in the palette issue (I happily concede having never been in a situation where that made the slightest difference. That said, sure I don't do desktop publishing, but I'm am not egocentric enough to go "Sure it's a major field but I don't use it so who cares!". Yeah, it's a major failing that doesn't happen to affect most users.)

    But it's a great software application, it's simple/intuitive enough that my *mother* can use it (Admittedly, she wasn't ruined by using photoshop first), it does 90% of what it's strongest competitor does, 99% of what any standard user will do, it's a small (~35 mb vs 1 Gig(?!?!) required for CS!) install, it runs well (Let's not get into the *other* CS requirements), and it's, ah . . . not the price of a used car.

    You keep using this word - I do not think it means what you think it means.

    Pug

  • by Macka (9388) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @12:23PM (#30159182)

    the artificial restrictions on root (hey - it's MY computer, not yours)

    What the hell are you talking about. This isn't windows, you don't have to and shouldn't be using the root account for day to day activities, but when you need it "sudo -s" gets you a nice little root shell and off you go. And if you really really want to login as root, it takes seconds to turn that on. Not having root enabled by default encourages people to use standard accounts and that's a good thing. If you don't like it, stop whining and change it to work the way you want to.

  • Re:Yep (Score:3, Informative)

    by MrHanky (141717) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @12:37PM (#30159432) Homepage Journal

    There's a list of, what, six reasons to drop Gimp. None of them is a 'godawful' UI. Complex, yes. Poor? No.

    I'm just saying your arguments are too dishonest and far too vague to be taken seriously.

  • by AntEater (16627) on Thursday November 19, 2009 @03:27PM (#30162626) Homepage

    Funny thing is that Slackware includes Gimp therefore making it more user friendly than Ubuntu.

  • by frisket (149522) <peterNO@SPAMsilmaril.ie> on Thursday November 19, 2009 @04:11PM (#30163494) Homepage

    The danger now is that F-Spot will grow [...]

    F-Spot truly sucks. Every time I try to use it's it's empty and wants to "import" stuff from my Photos directory all over again. The interface is ghastly, and it runs like a turd in porridge. The quicker someone can write a photo manager that works, the better.

  • Gimp interface (Score:2, Informative)

    by jdc18 (1654245) on Friday November 20, 2009 @01:23AM (#30168682)
    I use gimp a lot, and it is quite powerfull, but the interface sucks. I dont like having this many floating panels and windows. Inkscape on the other hand is really good. I showed to some illustrator users and they liked. It is simple, light and fast.

Sentient plasmoids are a gas.

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