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Linux Port For id's Tech 5 Graphics Engine Unlikely 461

Posted by Soulskill
from the sounds-like-they-need-some-encouragement dept.
DesiVideoGamer writes "John Carmack, the lead developer for id's Tech 5 graphics engine, does not plan on making a Linux port for the new engine. From his e-mail: 'It isn't out of the question, but I don't think we will be able to justify the work. If there are hundreds of thousands of Linux users playing Quake Live when we are done with Rage, that would certainly influence our decision.' One of the reasons for not making a Linux port was due to the fact that the new engine 'pushes a lot of paths that are not usually optimized' and that the Linux port would have to use the binary blob graphics driver in order to work."
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Linux Port For id's Tech 5 Graphics Engine Unlikely

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  • Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:03PM (#29168717)

    Linux Gaming not a huge market...more at 11pm

  • Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pwizard2 (920421) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:06PM (#29168747)

    I've come to count on id porting their games, so I'm disappointed over this bit of news.

    I use the proprietary Nvidia blob (version 180) for my Nvidia 8400 and I have no qualms about it. Windows users use proprietary drivers for practically every card that I've seen over the years, so how is it any different in principle if you replace Windows with Linux? While I take open stuff when I can get it, I would rather have a video card and wireless device that works on Linux. Not every Linux user sees things the same way that RMS does by insisting on a 100% FOSS operating system. While you can have that if you want it, I prefer the freedom of being able to mix and match as I see fit.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GameGod0 (680382) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:10PM (#29168779)

    But it is a market with very little piracy of native games. Also, very little competition, so you have a better penetration rate. Not sure if it is enough, but it is substantial.

    100% of "very small" is still "very small"...

  • Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by houstonbofh (602064) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:12PM (#29168801)

    But it is a market with very little piracy of native games. Also, very little competition, so you have a better penetration rate. Not sure if it is enough, but it is substantial.

    100% of "very small" is still "very small"...

    I guess we have different definitions of small. If half the Linux users would all send me a buck, I think you might consider that to be a bit of cash.

  • by Lemming Mark (849014) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:15PM (#29168835) Homepage

    "and that the Linux port would have to use the binary blob graphics driver in order to work"

    From TFA, it seems that Carmack believes it would be hard to get the necessary performance without using the NVidia drivers. It's somewhat surprising to me if it wouldn't be possible to get it running acceptably on anything else, even if the game does use a lot of advanced features - but if Carmack says so!

    However I'm not so keen on his assertion that if you're using the binary drivers you might as well run the code under Windows. I guess this probably *does* make sense for most people, since there are relatively few people who don't have a Windows license available somewhere. However, it would be *nicer* not to have to reboot into Windows for a specific app even if that were unnecessary.

    Unfortunately I saw a fair few quite negative reactions in the linked thread and I expect we'll see others here. Carmack has not ruled out a port for sure. But even if he does, that's not exactly evil or a betrayal of open source or anything else negative. Many gamers here will have benefited in some way from the GPLed code he's released to the OSS community in the past at some point, pretty much all gamers will have benefited from his position as a developer pushing the games industry forwards. He's not done anything *bad* here, he's just not necessarily doing something we'd hoped for.

    Hopefully the Rage code will - one day - be GPLed and get ported to Linux. I think that's a fair way down the road at this point, though.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by wampus (1932) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:21PM (#29168895)

    100% market penetration for yet another first person shooter. A cutting edge first person shooter. On an OS whose users like to brag about how shitty and old their PC is.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by houstonbofh (602064) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:23PM (#29168907)

    Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.

    Nope. I didn't buy all those iD games the day the Linux port came out. Never happened.

    And Red Hat and Crosover Office really don't make money at all... It is all a myth. ;)

  • Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by JohnBailey (1092697) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:25PM (#29168917)

    Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.

    Do Windows users??

  • Re:Too bad (Score:2, Insightful)

    by PolyDwarf (156355) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:39PM (#29169005)

    I wasn't being satirical... The Beard knows all!!!!.... OK, I can't handle that any more. Back to reality.

    Personally, I agree with you. The Cult of RMS is just that. If you don't fully drink the Kool Aid, you are outcast and unclean. That closed minded thinking annoys me to no end.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by MWoody (222806) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:51PM (#29169053)

    On what do you base that first assertion? Because you wish it were true, because Linux users are somehow better?

    I would have said a similar thing about indie games once, particularly those who support their fanbase well and opt for no-DRM releases. Then World of Goo, which calls home for one of the online features in the game, reported a near-90% piracy rate. They even gave out the first world as a free demo, for chrissakes.

    The fact is, there's nothing unique about Linux that's going to somehow reduce the piracy rate. I mean, let's face the facts: it's a group of users savvy enough to get their hands on a distributable (possibly via torrent), who have opted for a free OS with tons of free software, and who tend (if this very site is to be believed) statistically towards antiestablishmentarianism. We're hardly ideal customers for anything we can't recommend for purchase at work.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Orion Blastar (457579) <orionblastar@gmail . c om> on Sunday August 23, 2009 @10:59PM (#29169111) Homepage Journal

    It is not that Linux has a small market, ID claims technical problems with the Blog drivers.

    This is sad because a lot of Gameheads are locked into Windows for playing games, and if Linux versions had existed you'd see more Gamehead defections to Linux because most hate Windows crashing on them or causing lags in the game when it eats up resource memory. If only Video Card makers would open up their standards so open source drivers can be used for them. My Nvidia chipset driver for Linux is limited to 2D support and there is no 3D support yet unless I use a proprietary driver. What almost killed OS/2 was lack of third party driver support as well as lack of OS/2 native software. Since OS/2 ran 16 bit Windows and MS-DOS programs companies felt that there was no need to write OS/2 programs, and hardware vendors didn't see a need to develop OS/2 drivers when Windows was dominating the market. Now Linux is facing a similar problem that OS/2 had, and software companies like ID are not making a Linux version and telling people to use the Windows version instead. I hope it at least works with WINE. :)

  • Good analogy. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Sunday August 23, 2009 @11:00PM (#29169119) Journal

    Cars still work, and are still fun, and can still be innovative, despite all of them using the exact same UI, even when the steering column is no longer necessarily directly connected to anything, and the car could've been driven as easily with a joystick.

    The same could be said of first person shooters. The gameplay mechanic may not change much, but the games can be very different experiences, and they are still fun. Indeed, many of us still have fun with the occasional Doom 1 game, so if Doom 4 ends up playing just like Doom 1 but with better graphics, I don't see that as a bad thing.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday August 23, 2009 @11:05PM (#29169151)

    The plural of "anecdote" is not "proof".

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wampus (1932) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @11:05PM (#29169153)

    How many of those 3 million are sitting headless somewhere, serving up files or running batch jobs?

    20% of gamers that run Linux, have a decent enough PC, and enjoy FPSes might be more reasonable.

  • by bigbigbison (104532) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @11:13PM (#29169197) Homepage
    I love how the original poster ends with

    The Zenimax deal really has killed id software.

    This news needs to be blogged and passed around like wildfire. id software is dead, long live id software!


    Yes, it is Zenimax that killed the linux port, not any of the reason that he lists or anything...
  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by markdavis (642305) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @11:13PM (#29169203)

    Linux users never pay for anything, so it doesn't even matter.

    You are full of crap. I have purchased *dozens* of commercial games for Linux: Wolfenstien 2, Heroes3, Doom3, Heretic 2, Myth 2, Goo, Sim City 3000, are just a few I can remember of the top of my head. All commercial. All Linux based. And I am certainly not alone.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by xigxag (167441) on Sunday August 23, 2009 @11:50PM (#29169441)

    Sure but the real issue is, not if the AC is full of crap, but is Carmack full of crap when he says that your purchases (and those of your fellow Linux game buyers) aren't themselves enough to justify the expense of porting this engine? Certainly he has access to id's sales stats. Why would he lie about such a thing? And furthermore, if the Linux game market is so fertile, yet underserved, someone such as yourself should be able to make a killing funding a Linux games startup.

  • by xigxag (167441) on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:02AM (#29169487)

    It's not a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's fulfilled by the external factor that not enough Linux users are buying games. For it to be self-fulfilling would indicate circularity -- that Linux users aren't buying games because they aren't being put out. But that's not the case. They have been put out but are simply not selling large enough numbers to justify additional investment. Porting more games would simply make the debit side of the balance sheet worse. And that kind of investment can't be justified these days -- we're in the midst of a huge game recession. Even consoles games are hurting, so what would inspire a major game studio to leap into Linux?

  • Ok seriously... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stonedcat (80201) <hikaricore [at] gmail.com> on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:05AM (#29169505) Homepage

    When the hell did the Ubuntu Forums become a trusted/valid source of news?
    Slashdot is going downhill fast. I tried to deny it but this is just crap.

  • by acidrainx (806006) on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:31AM (#29169649) Homepage

    No, not Bethesda. They're owned by ZeniMax, who also owns Bethesda. It's ZeniMax that has to sign off on it.

    id Tech 5 is impressive right now, but so was Quake 3 back in the day. I wouldn't rule out id Tech 5 being open sourced when their next big game is about to be released on id Tech 7.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hairyfeet (841228) <.bassbeast1968. .at. .gmail.com.> on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:50AM (#29169731) Journal

    I think the bigger issues with Linux gaming, and this will probably get me modded down for daring to say this, is that MSFT is pretty much the only game in town thanks to DirectX. OpenGL just hasn't kept feature parity with DirectX in quite awhile, and last time i read anything about OpenGL development they seemed to care more about CAD than gaming.

    So when you talk about making a cutting edge DirectX FPS and making a native Linux port, you are really talking about taking a DirectX 9-11 level game and trying to make it work with a DirectX 7-8 level API, which is what OpenGL is about at last time I checked. They are simply more worried about the CAD sector than they are games, which leaves Linux out in the cold. maybe it is too late to start a new API, but short of simply having to run Wine constantly (which of course will always be behind because they are trying to reverse engineer a VERY complex API that is constantly improving and undergoing revision) I just don't see how the newer games won't be prohibitively expensive to port considering the state of OpenGL VS DirectX.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Ihmhi (1206036) <i_have_mental_health_issues@yahoo.com> on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:50AM (#29169735)

    If he really meant that, I'd put together a Linux box and play QL on it.

    I'm all for more companies actually making games working natively on Linux. Games are the only reason I use Windows at all.

  • Re:Too bad (Score:5, Insightful)

    by nacturation (646836) * <nacturation AT gmail DOT com> on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:51AM (#29169743) Journal

    First they implemented video card drivers as blobs, and I didn't speak up because I was happy playing games.
    Then they implemented the network drivers as blobs, and I didn't speak up because I enjoyed faster network connectivity.
    Then they implemented the storage drivers as blobs, and I didn't speak up because now the latest hardware ran in Linux.
    Then they implemented my kernel as a blob, and there was nobody left to speak up for me because their systems were causing kernel panics because of all the blobs that nobody could debug.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by hairyfeet (841228) <.bassbeast1968. .at. .gmail.com.> on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:17AM (#29169877) Journal

    This will probably get me beaten down for say, but I doubt seriously you'd get the Windows gamers over with more Linux ports, and here is why-#1.-As a PC repairman i can tell you I haven't seen a crash that wasn't caused by the user installing malware since...oh lord, it has to be around XP Sp1.

    -#2- As someone who has built and sold many a custom gamer rig, I can tell you Windows gamers are the second most GUI centric bunch you will ever see, the "Sally home user" types being the only ones LESS likely to touch a CLI. They have GUI tweaker tools, the have GUI benchmark software, they used pre-tweaked GUI based drivers, etc. They simply have ZERO desire to ever see and use a CLI, and anyone that has used Linux for any length of time will admit there are still plenty of places where a CLI is required. Update bone your sound? CLI. Your new GPU (which WinGamers do change more than home users) doesn't get the monitor resolution correct? CLI. These guys want to frag, not learn Unix commands.

    -#3-From what I have been told (not a game developer, so I don't know how accurate it is) OpenGL is simply no where near parity with DirectX. This means the fanciest graphics, the biggest booms, all the bling bling that those that are willing to spend the crazy money on an uber-powerful GPU love, will always be for Windows, and will take a long time to port if it ever is at all. The odds of getting even half of the AAA rated games in any given year natively ported to Linux in a timely manner is virtually nil.

    So I'm sorry, while Linux does have some distinct advantages, servers, HPC, cell phones, PMPs, etc gaming just ain't one of them, and having one or two big name games ported over ain't gonna change that. I would say the much more important thing to worry about IMHO would be getting a stable ABI so that the local Walmart Supercenter will have nice little driver CDs included with their devices with a "Linux 32/64" driver, instead of the less than 25% support I see there now. There are plenty of folks that just use their PCs for email, web browsing, etc but until you can take the "research every single purchase" part out of the equation then the mom & pop stores like mine can't help Linux by offering your product.

    There are simply too many devices currently being sold at Staples, Best Buy, and the 800 pound gorilla known as Walmart that have zero support, which leaves the little shops like mine having to add the "MSFT Tax" to every sale because Linux support would eat away all my profits. But wasting time and effort on a niche like gaming that is so tied to Windows and DirectX just seems nuts and with the new Windows 7 gaming will be even easier with the centralized game explorer it just seems crazy to me to go for a market where you are already disadvantaged badly because of the reasons I listed above.

  • by Kjella (173770) on Monday August 24, 2009 @01:27AM (#29169923) Homepage

    Nvidia didn't just write a regualr binary driver, they had to rewrite a large chunk of Xwindow and package the resulting mess in a large drop-in binary blob, unstable and heavily dependant on the kernel version.

    This part you got backwards. Because they did a pretty clear cut that depends little on kernel versions, they've constantly been much faster at supporting the latest kernels than AMD, like for example kernel 2.6.29 was released in March and supported only by Catalyst in the August release from a few days ago.

    (...) windows (non)emulation can not keep up with Microsofts technical progress on directx. So many recent AAA games in every genre are listed as 'bronze' or 'garbage'.

    Yes, they are. However, very few of these are related to the Direct3D part of WINE and if they are they're usually solved by installing the d3d dlls. However closed source is very prone to crashing if anything else isn't as it should, particularly Microsoft's Live services have been a big problem. Games that actually get past that like World In Conflict have quite decent performance on par with Windows, same with King's Bounty that's a fairly 3D intensive non-FPS.

    The PC gaming market is small enough to justify p[orting to a platform that is a tiny fraction (about 1%) of users.

    Yep, this is what it is about. Not just Linux users, but the intersection between those Linux users interested in a high-end FPS having the hardware and willingness to pay with the market that isn't already getting it somewhere on Windows. Don't get me wrong, I get what's native when I can, what's running in WINE when it works, but there's no competing with a Wintendo box...

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by eltaco (1311561) on Monday August 24, 2009 @02:09AM (#29170099)
    yes and no - any id game I actually bought was usually the windows version followed by a quick dl of a linux bin and a replacement of the windows exe (so, yes, they have general stats - ie apache logs (or do they actually sell linux/mac only versions in the states or elsewhere? they don't to my knowledge in Germany or the UK [I've seen mac and windows versions of other games, but nothing non-windows])) - seeing as they used to use opengl for everything.
    it sounds like this time id went for dx10 - even though they claim the (possible) pc and mac versions are based on opengl (I'm still slightly puzzled by this claim tbh). I ("only") minor in CS, but to my understanding, if you dev an application on a certain (cross plattform) api, it should easily be adapted to other plattforms. Seeing as one of those plattforms is mac - which to my knowledge only 'understands' opengl (no directx port) - their statement makes little sense. why should they be easily able to dev for mac but not for linux, seeing as the general basis is the same and they both work really well with opengl?

    -sniff sniff- I smell bacon!

    id used to offer a linux bin for basically any of their games - why is it so hard this time?! are they maybe not actually using opengl..? are they snubbing the nix market? are they going to make the effort for the mac market? if so, if they have to port it to opengl for the mac (or has ms actually released dx10 for the mac?!), why can't they type a "couple lines" of code and port it to nix afterwards? hell, chuck me the code - I've been looking for an excuse to read up on opengl and the *nix kernel - as long as I can put it in my CV!

    id is one of those dev groups that have always gone out of their way to please the open sourcers, the modders, the community. it's no coincidence that most of their games were used in lan competitions.

    for now, I have this big muthaf*cka of a question mark on my head. and any which way I look, I'm not really happy. id is (was) one of those game devs I could look up to and that gave me hope for free software - even if it meant buying the windows version and later dl'ing the linux version.

    (having said all this, I might be totally wrong - or not hehe! please correct me if neccessary)
  • by Ilgaz (86384) on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:04AM (#29170331) Homepage

    There is no reason to attack RMS over this. RMS is just telling the true stupidity which breaks the main purpose of Linux OS.

    Even using latest OS X and only Macs, I can understand how ridicolous the binary "blob" driver is. One doesn't need to be a GNU fanatic to do so.

    What was the reason behind binary blob drivers again? Evil competitors stealing x86 code? What competitor really? It is just ATI and Nvidia left. ATI already went open , Intel was always open but not really a gaming GPU company. It is not RMS, it is Nvidia being old fashioned regarding open source. They don't have any competitor left and they aren't aware of it.

    I got 3 PPC Macs here, I am the live example of Linux PPC effected by this "binary only" drivers. It kills the experience I would get from Linux, perhaps it would show how Apple wasted the G5 platform (just theory), would give a safe path for future of these PPC machines which still runs, an alternative...

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bonefry (979930) on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:18AM (#29170399)

    And Red Hat and Crosover Office really don't make money at all... It is all a myth. ;)

    I know you're being sarcastic, but what about Loki Games?

  • by selven (1556643) on Monday August 24, 2009 @03:49AM (#29170545)

    Wait, you want it to take 5 minutes to boot from your normal OS to the game and then 5 minutes to switch back?

  • Re:Big news... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Toonol (1057698) on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:26AM (#29170755)
    Yeah, but I think you're getting English confused with Math.

    "It never snows in August"

    "Categorically wrong. Your assertion is untrue. Study the 'little ice age' of the medieval period."

    "Uh.. anyway, since it never snows in August..." *rolls eyes*

    Natural languages would break if they were consistently held to mathematical and logical rigor. Your statement may be technically accurate, but the OP may still be 'right'.
  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Draek (916851) on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:33AM (#29170799)

    so you would never really hear the X-windows system is probably the worst piece of software ever written

    ORLY? let's see you backing that up with some reliable data. Something better than the "it's 20 years old!" and "it uses the network!" idiocy that gets posted to Slashdot so often, preferably.

    or that Linux drivers do not really exist as the frequent kernel changes makes vendor software drivers invalid

    Carmack's argument is that he can't port it easily without relying on closed-source drivers, and you somehow derive from this that Linux needs *more* closed-source drivers? or are you just trolling out of context here?

  • by Turiko (1259966) on Monday August 24, 2009 @04:47AM (#29170863)
    Wow, sorry to say this, but you're a graphics whore. ID has always made great games, and will continue to. If they want to focus on making a good game rather then adding dynamic weather, then that is a good thing. And ID has always put out the SDK's for their games. On a pc, you can mod and change things - make your own part of the game. You can't do that on a console, and that's one of the major reasons i'll stick to PC gaming. That and the xbox/ps3 only have joysticks and i've used a pc mouse nearly all my life :D.
  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by L4t3r4lu5 (1216702) on Monday August 24, 2009 @05:39AM (#29171097)

    I ("only") minor in CS, but to my understanding, if you dev an application on a certain (cross plattform) api, it should easily be adapted to other plattforms.

    Not harsh enough. If an application is developed on a cross-platform API, it should work without modification on every platform which has that particular API framework installed. If it doesn't, the API isn't cross-platform.

    If id code a game engine which runs on OpenGL 3, it should run on OpenGL 3 in Linux, Windows, Mac, my SE mobiel phone... Any device which has "OpenGL 3 compatible" somewhere in its description. I shouldn't have to dick about with something to make it work if it says it runs the framework I've coded for.

  • by Sycraft-fu (314770) on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:26AM (#29172265)

    If you read Slashdot for more than a little while, you find a non-trivial amount of posters that seem to think charging any money for software is wrong. "Information wants to be free," and all that. They believe everything electronic should be no cost. That is part of why they use Linux.

    Well, it would be no surprise at all if those people copied their games. After all, they believe it is right. There is no ethical dilemma for them, they think this is how it should be.

    Also, doesn't matter if there is very little copyright infringement on Linux, there are very little customers. Doesn't matter WHY people aren't buying the games, it just matters that they aren't. So even if 100% of users willing to pay for the game are in fact paying for it, that doesn't help if that number is too small to support the costs in porting it.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jedidiah (1196) on Monday August 24, 2009 @08:49AM (#29172507) Homepage

    The "complaint" about the binary drivers really seems to be the most senseless of all.

    If I am willing to run Carmack's proprietary code and pay for the priveledge, the idea
    of running some binary driver doesn't seem like much of a stretch really. I really don't
    see the problem.

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TheRaven64 (641858) on Monday August 24, 2009 @09:59AM (#29173275) Journal
    Reading that comment, I wonder if you've ever written any code, let alone any cross-platform code. If you declare i as an integer, it will be some kind of integer on every platform. But will it be a 16-bit, 32-bit or 64-bit integer? Will it be big enough to hold a pointer? Does the hardware wrap or produce some other undefined result on unsigned overflow? And we're only in implementation-defined parts of the core C language specification here, not talking about any APIs - even the C standard library. Out in the real world, there are differences in implementations of APIs. There are different levels of support for these APIs on different platforms. Writing cross-platform code using a given API is not as easy as writing single-platform code using the same API, especially for an API as complex and with as much implementation-defined behaviour as OpenGL.
  • by Radhruin (875377) on Monday August 24, 2009 @10:50AM (#29173873)

    Buy every Linux release.

    I have a policy: If I think I'll get more than a few hours of entertainment out of a game and it runs on Linux, I buy it.

    I've purchased a bunch of Id releases (Q3, Q4, D3), a couple S2 titles (Savage 2, Heroes of Newerth), World of Goo, UT 2k3, Neverwinter Nights, and a few others. These games are WELL WORTH their box price, and I'm telling these developers to keep it up with their linux ports.

    I would bet if every gamer that also runs Linux does the same, we'd see a lot more Linux games. So, Linux gamers, do your part!

  • Re:Big news... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by oatworm (969674) on Monday August 24, 2009 @12:10PM (#29174867) Homepage
    For better or worse, you have to use the tools that work for you. In your case, you have a hard requirement - you need MS Project 2003 to work on whatever system you're using. Obviously, if you have a hard requirement that you have to use a Windows-native application, you should probably use the operating system that best supports it, which would be Windows, and that's okay.

    The point of WINE is to help your migration path to Linux. If you have an app that only runs under Windows and you need some time to wean yourself off of it, WINE is great for that. If you have a non-critical Windows-only app that you'd like to run from time to time (say, certain games), WINE is great for that. If you have a business-critical Windows app that absolutely needs to run and there's no way you're migrating out of it, just run Windows. Computers are tools and you should configure yours to do what you need it to do - don't let anyone convince you otherwise.

"Never ascribe to malice that which is caused by greed and ignorance." -- Cal Keegan

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