Quick Boot Linux Hopes To Win Over Windows Users 440
Al writes "A company called Presto hopes to exploit the painful amount of time it takes for Windows computers to start up by offering a streamlined version of Linux that boots in just seconds. Presto's distro comes with Firefox, Skype and other goodies pre-installed and the company has also created an app store so that users can install only what they really need. The software was demonstrated at this year's Demo conference in Palm Desert, CA. Interestingly, the company barely mentions the name Linux on its website. Is this a clever stealth-marketing ploy for converting Windows users to Linux?"
Boot Time is the least of the pain. (Score:5, Insightful)
I am fairly sure faster boot times wont cause most people to switch. For most people it comes down to being able to run their apps, and not the sometimes poor GNU replacements of their apps.
Making Linux Work (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Easier to DIY... (Score:2, Insightful)
I realize your post wasn't about making it 'the year of the Linux desktop' but I'm going to use your post to illustrate a point.
This sort of little 'silly' crap is one of the problems with normal users adopting Linux. Normal users don't want to have to have a little ingenuity in order to use their computers, they just want them to do what they are told to do, fast, without crashing, and in a way they are used to.
Linux can be stable. Linux can be fast. However it is in most distros missing this sort of polishing touch that makes all the difference in the world. Ubuntu for example is pretty close to Windows as far as usability for a standard user who just browses the Internet and reads email. But its the tiny little polishes that are missing that are going to be required for the end user to pick up on it.
Well, that and it'll have to run Office well too. No OpenOffice doesn't count so don't say it. While the Linux desktop experience just needs some polishing off for end users, OpenOffice has several years of getting to grasp with how not to suck ass before users are going to want to use it over MS Office. That tripe is a collection of Office 'replacement' apps that don't even come close to replacing Office. Perhaps the word processor is fine, I haven't really used it enough (nor Word for that matter) to comment. The spreadsheet, database and drawing apps are a joke at best. They are barely useful, let alone anything that can be considered in the same catagory as what Office offers.
Again, not really directed at your post, and this is really off topic, just wanted to show a reason why its not the Year of the Linux desktop.
Re:Who reboots? (Score:5, Insightful)
Even Vista boots pretty quickly, at least to the login prompt. The excruciating delay comes from loading all of the apps - virus checker, printer/scanner tools, laptop vendor "helpful tools" that don't seem to do anything, etc. It's ridiculous.
only fanboys care about boot times (Score:3, Insightful)
This will only impress the type of douchebag who lists his RAM timings in his tweaker forum sig. People aren't using Windows because it boots fast, they use it because it came with their PC, and they can bootleg Office from work, and play Snood.
Re:Hibernation? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Hibernation? (Score:4, Insightful)
There are several reasons why you shouldn't always hibernate. Hibernate preserves the state of memory. If there is something wrong with the state of the memory such as a program has a bad memory leak, that problem persists. Also for computers with a large amount of memory, hibernation might not be the best alternative. The hibernation file must be at least as large as the RAM. If your computer has a large amount of RAM then it will take longer to backup/restore the state of the memory.
At the very least, occasionally do a full shutdown to get a "clean slate".
Re:Hibernation? (Score:4, Insightful)
As everybody else has said... why bother rebooting it? My XP-based laptop is effectively instant-on and instant-off with sleep mode, and it really only gets rebooted after I've been playing video games all day, or after a system update.
And don't gripe about battery life... sleep mode uses *very* little power. I have, quite literally, put my laptop in sleep mode, gone on vacation, and come back 3 weeks later to a laptop with a battery that still had enough juice to run for 3.5h before it needed to be plugged in. (The laptop in question has a Core 2 Duo T5450 @ 1.66GHz, 2GB of RAM, 120GB 7200rpm HDD, DVD, 15.4" LCD @ 1680x1050).
Even with netbooks, battery life in sleep mode is very long. I have a Dell Mini 9 (64GB SSD, 2GB RAM) running OS/X (thanks to http://gizmodo.com/5156903/how-to-hackintosh-a-dell-mini-9-into-the-ultimate-os-x-netbook [gizmodo.com]), and that one is also pretty much instant-on and instant-off with sleep mode, and hasn't needed to be plugged in in 3 days.
So... why are you actually bothering to power-down and reboot from cold your acer-one?
This is silly. (Score:3, Insightful)
Ok, you could probably somebody an operating system that boots in 2 seconds and does nothing. But, I guarantee you that within a month the vast majority of people will load up their computers with a bunch of crap such that they will still take a minute to boot.
Re:Hibernation? (Score:4, Insightful)
They don't work properly all the time under XP either. I've had some pretty quirky behavior, like the machine not coming back to life every once in a while. I found on my HP notebook that hibernate was sufficiently cranky under Vista that I finally stopped using it.
Re:Easier to DIY... (Score:4, Insightful)
What MS Office drawing app are you referring to? Would that be Paint? Paint is a POS, and even MS knows that (they really ought to replace it with Paint.NET)
I can replace all my Office apps with free alternatives:
MS Word = OpenOffice.org Writer
MS Excel = OpenOffice.org Calc
MS Access = OpenOffice.org Base
MS PowerPoint = OpenOffice.org Impress
MS Publisher = Scribus
MS Outlook = Evolution
MS Paint = GIMP or OpenOffice.org Draw
Adobe Illustrator = Inkscape
Adobe Acrobat = (practically any Linux application can create a PDF or PS file)
The list can go on, and others here can easily tell you more applications, I only wanted to harp in on a few that you might be interested in (or didn't even think about.) The days of MS Office being the be-all-end-all of office application suites is over and has been for a while now.
Re:Hibernation? (Score:4, Insightful)
I've had nothing but good experiences with Ubuntu and the Dell Mini 9 when it comes to standby. Works perfectly. I would guess it's the hardware vendors that aren't very friendly when it comes to standby + hibernate.
Re:Who reboots? (Score:3, Insightful)
How long does it take to get on the highway?
How long does it take to get dressed?
How long does it take to get the shower temperature right?
The questions you ask refer more to delay times in starting applications, and overall responsiveness.
Re:Who reboots? (Score:5, Insightful)
How long does it take your oven to pre-heat? Honestly this is all apples to oranges. Most people simply don't care about the fact that their computers take a bit of time before they're ready to use.
Re:Making Linux Work (Score:3, Insightful)
There are certain killer apps that prevent people from running Linux. If the user has to jump through hoops and install emulators or similar to get it to install, or it doesn't work fully, that counts as "doesn't work":
Microsoft Outlook. As long as an average user can't even get the company address book to show in Evolution, it's not a viable replacement.
Adobe Photoshop. Don't even think Gimp -- it's not a substitute for Photoshop users.
World of Warcraft and other popular games. The average Joe won't know nor care to know how to configure wine and xorg.conf.
Internet Explorer 6. Yes, it sucks, but yes, many people require access to Documentum and other ActiveX based business systems that won't work with Firefox (or IE7 for that matter). Sure, it sucks. But the end user generally has little say in this.
VPN software that your company can support.
In other words, there's still a market for Microsoft Windows. That doesn't mean that Linux is no good -- far from it (hey, I'm writing this from Linux). It just means that it's not ready to replace Windows for a great many people.
Re:Hibernation? (Score:4, Insightful)
We don't have anyone willing to use a shovel anymore to do real work.
Here, let me correct that for you:
"We don't have anyone willing to use a shovel anymore to do real work for less than a living wage."
Re:Who reboots? (Score:3, Insightful)
My answers to some of your questions:
What about your television? (Unless it is decades old, it is probably two seconds or less.)
LG 37LC7D, less than a year old. From hitting the power button to when it shows a picture is about 5-7 seconds for cable TV or composite inputs, and about 5-7 seconds more than that for HDMI input.
What about when you turn the ignition key in your car? Does it churn for 30 seconds before it is ready to drive off? (Well I know some cars do...)
If you have a performance car (or you live in a cold region), you'll want to let it warm up a bit before you move it. One motorcycle owned by a guy I know won't even get in gear (even in a hot climate) unless you've had the engine running for several minutes, so he starts the engine, then he puts on his jacket, gloves, helmet, etc. He bought a scooter for that reason: if he's going to the grocery store for a small item, he can get there and back much faster with the scooter, despite the bike having WAY more power.
Re:Hibernation? (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm not saying this is a problem for everyone; just that there's enough issues that I think a lot of people are afraid or unable to use sleep.
Re:Making Linux Work (Score:2, Insightful)
It doesn't matter how quickly the OS is available if you can't do anything once it turns on.
You're not seriously saying that if you boot Linux you "can't do anything"? What year is this? On Linux you can browse the web in all its flash-filled glory, use basically any IM protocol you want, Skype, edit MS Word documents, play solitaire, email people and lots of other things on top. Not being able to play GTA IV or run Photoshop is significant for some but a long way from not being able to do anything. Jeez.
If you could make it so that the majority of windows applications ran without resistance, I think that almost no boot time could make Linux revolutionary. Until then, I think you're wasting man hours on the wrong problem.
You're asking for two ridiculously large things here - first, the WINE project has been going at it for over 15 years and are still a long way from completion. Even throwing more manpower at it can only do so much. The sheer enormity of the task is simply staggering. Secondly, Linux (using the term as broadly as possible, with apologies to Mr. Stallman!) is not under control of any single body, and it's impossible to focus the whole development community on any single area that needs improvement. Why don't you ask for all of the distros to unite under one flag and for everyone to settle on KDE or Gnome while you're at it! Even if someone did have this kind of control, who's to say that focusing on implementing Windows compatibility at the expense of other projects like this wouldn't be harmful for Linux in the long run?
In summary, I think that 1) You're vastly under-representing the capabilities of Linux and 2) You're basically asking for the impossible.
Re:Hibernation? (Score:1, Insightful)
Maybe you need to check your units? Unless you meant that power consumption increases linearly with sleep time (which I doubt)
First, and second (Score:3, Insightful)
First: Who gives a shit if it's booting in half the time?
I press power once between standing up and breakfast (on). And once before going to bed (off).
It already boots faster than my brain. ^^
Second: This is very old news. This quick-boot "technique" (aka horrible hack). Exists for a long time now.
Besides: If I wanted to boot fast, I'd do it right, and use hibernation for the power button and long times of inactivity, and sleep for short times. With an optional real reboot (in case of kernel updates) between pressing the power button and going to hibernate (after being booted up again).
Re:Hibernation? (Score:2, Insightful)
Every time (Score:3, Insightful)
Every time there is a discussion about boot times, someone very much like yourself comes out with the old chestnut of "are you so important and impatient that you can't wait 30 seconds for a PC to boot". I assume you guys have a secret clubhouse somewhere where you meet to discuss your strategy for defending the indefensible, but anyway...
Could this logic not be applied to any situation? E.g. you double click on an icon to start a program and your computer needlessly pauses for 15-30 seconds - but don't get mad, after all your life isn't so full that you can't wait less than a minute, right?
I honestly don't know what the crap PCs are doing in that 30-40 seconds. If it's scanning for hardware changes, well, newsflash, most people don't change their hardware every time they boot. I do know this: I currently have a clean XPSP2 installation on a system based on an AMD Phenom II 940, and it boots to desktop in under 15 seconds. Yet my last PC (Athlon XP 3000+) somehow took 40 seconds to boot to desktop. There is something totally arbitrary and unneccessary happening on most Windows machines which makes them boot much more slowly than they need to.
Dear Linux Community (Score:3, Insightful)
If you want to win over windows users:
Make ONE distro - Part of what make Windows so useful is that i know how to use every windows machine i see. They're all pretty damn similar. Instead of making a bunch of distros that can't compete, make ONE that can. All the flavors are confusing. Windows has 3 basic flavors, home, domain and server. Aim for that.
Make it run Halo, Planetside, MS Office and the games that don't work on consoles. FPS and RTS games just aren't the same with console controls. What this really means is: driver support for video cards. And NO, i don't want OO.o. i use it when i can, but it just isn't a competitor for MSO. So either get OO.o ready for prime time, or work with MS.
i'd love to not pay 100$ to 200$ for the OS, but i'd rather have a system that can DO THINGS. That can run my games and interact with the rest of the world.