Debian's Testing Branch Nears Completion 216
DeviceGuru writes "With Debian Lenny (aka 'testing') poised to displace Etch as the popular Linux distribution's 'stable' branch possibly as soon as next month, blogger Rick Lehrbaum loaded the latest preview (beta 2) of Lenny's KDE CD image onto an available Thinkpad, and took it for a spin. How's it coming along? After detailing a handful of issues — and offering solutions for each (except Bluetooth support) — he concludes: 'Other than the need for a few hacks and fixes, my main complaint with it is its inclusion of way too many of KDE's rich set of applications, such as games, tools, etc.' From the looks of it, looks like Lenny might be the new 'Debian stable' soon!"
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:5, Informative)
'kde' is just a metapackage: it depends on the packages in that list (directly or indirectly). There's nothing wrong with leaving those other packages installed. The new apt/dpkg conventions try to help you remove cruft, so they let you remove those packages with `apt-get autoremove`. Instead of that, install a few that you need by hand to remove them from the list. When you don't see any in this list that you want, then run auto-remove.
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:5, Informative)
The only point of the KDE metapackage is to provide a 1-click install for KDE.
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:3, Informative)
No, they are not annoying. This is a very useful new concept in Debian, I believe that once you understand it, you can see how nice it is.
Explaining better:
All those packages are installed as dependencies of the metapackage 'kde'.
You are trying to remove one of it's dependencies (kdegames) and that's why apt-get want to uninstall all other dependencies and the 'kde' itself.
If you want those packages, but not the kdegames, you should install those packages by hand (or at least those starting with kde, that I think most of them are metapackages also).
It can be new in Debian, but only relatively new in Ubuntu (I believe is in some new version of the apt system), but quite old in Gentoo. And it was one of the things that I missed most in Debian.
It's not Debian Lenny Beta 2 (Score:2, Informative)
It's the current testing branch, installed using the second beta of the Debian-Installer version to be included in Lenny. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:2, Informative)
# apt-get remove kde
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
knetwalk kpat ksokoban kolf blinken krdc krec libdb4.6++ krfb kscd kppp kshisen kmoon kmahjongg ksig
ksim libkscan1 kwifimanager kcharselect kjumpingcube kdeartwork-style kregexpeditor kcoloredit
artsbuilder kdessh kanagram ktip kdeprint kmrml katomic ksvg kscreensaver kruler ktux klettres
kgoldrunner kbackgammon kpoker libkiten1 ksnapshot kpackage kooka kenolaba kblackbox kdebase
atlantikdesigner klatin kfloppy kdegraphics-kfile-plugins kstars ksame konqueror-nsplugins kbruch kpager
libkdegames1 kde-core kcalc keduca klipper kdemultimedia-kappfinder-data kdeadmin-kfile-plugins kweather
kmplot kalzium ksirc ksysguard klickety kpovmodeler ksayit kmouth noatun-plugins kworldclock mpeglib
kdewebdev kmenuedit kdegames kicker-applets amor kdict ktouch khexedit ksplash kdeaccessibility kedit
kbounce kvoctrain kdetoys kdenetwork-kfile-plugins kimagemapeditor atlantik kbstate kwordquiz kcron
kview ktron kdenetwork kttsd dcoprss ksysv kwin4 kuser kdeaddons kreversi kdf kspaceduel kig kpf juk
noatun kdnssd klines kdemultimedia-kfile-plugins fifteenapplet kdemultimedia kfaxview lskat
libarts1-mpeglib kaddressbook-plugins kviewshell kgamma kdeutils khelpcenter kdegraphics khangman
knetworkconf kdeartwork-theme-window ksmiletris konq-plugins kbattleship libpoppler-qt2 kiconedit
kdeadmin kasteroids kfouleggs libkdeedu3 kwalletmanager kopete ksnake kdelibs kiten kappfinder
eyesapplet kdat kate kdeedu kdelirc kpercentage superkaramba kjots kfax ksirtet kmines kdvi kget
kuickshow kgpg konquest kate-plugins kolourpaint kmousetool kdeaddons-kfile-plugins libarts1-xine kmag
kmilo ktuberling kturtle kaudiocreator ktimer kmid kteatime kverbos kdepasswd kmix kdeartwork kodo
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
kde
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
After this operation, 41.0kB disk space will be freed.
So removing kde will not uninstall KDE I use? What about the other packages like kppp (yes, still use dial-up modem)?
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:5, Informative)
"The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:"
This does _not_ mean they're going to be removed.
"The following packages will be REMOVED:"
Only that specific convenience meta-package gets removed.
To further illustrate this, check this line:
"After this operation, 41.0kB disk space will be freed."
Somehow I think KDE takes more than 41.0kB, don't you?
If you really wanted to remove the kde meta-package together with all the dependencies that it pulled in (so all the things you didn't explicitly apt-get install yourself), you'd use "apt-get autoremove kde".
Re:advice for upgrading a server? (Score:4, Informative)
I am by no means an expert, however I have upgraded a couple of servers that I don't have physical access to.
I've normally tried to upgrade a server that I do have physical access to before upgrading the offsite server(s). So long as the server comes back up and ssh is still running pretty much everything else can be sorted out after a little time, the logs and google.
Ideally similar hardware.
Oh and googling around to see if anyone has hit problems doing the upgrade.
Re:advice for upgrading a server? (Score:3, Informative)
1. Release notes will be here [debian.org] (right now they contain the etch release notes).
2. You probably will have to type apt-get dist-upgrade a couple of times (I usually average two). Reason is first couple of times, some packages will be stuck because of conflicting versioning, but it usually fixes itself once you get a couple of packages upgraded (usually once you get past libc and the kernel)
Generally speaking, Debian upgrade is much more painless than Ubuntu upgrades, IMO, possibly because of the longer release cycle. My Debian systems usually have some mixture of stable and backports, and I don't remember having any problems upgrading. Even desktops where I am third-party repos outside backports, I don't have any problems.
One thing you might want to do, especially if you don't have physical access to the server, is to wait a week to upgrade to see if there is a huge problem with other people's upgrade.
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:3, Informative)
Please die now.
Just because someone does not know something, and asks a legitimate question, is no reason to give them instructions that will completely fuck over their machine.
Seriously man, how the hell can you act like that to another human being?
Re:Sigh, JPG screenshots (Score:4, Informative)
Forgive me I'm a fucking idiot :)
Re:advice for upgrading a server? (Score:5, Informative)
At least do a simulated dist-upgrade by using the -s switch before doing the "real" one!
apt-get -s dist-upgrade
Sometimes, just sometimes, it'll catch things which might go wrong before they actually happen.
Re:Still not ready (Score:4, Informative)
Debian is mainly used as a server OS, it isn't generally held up as a shining example of how Linux is ready for the desktop. It is fairly widely used in production environments, and by developers and other geeky types, and it is considered an excellent stable base for other, more specialised distros. Like, for example, Ubuntu -- which is more than "ready" for the desktop.
In order to criticize in a meaningful way, one needs to know the subject at hand. Otherwise, you're just trolling and making inappropriate noise. And really, "freetards"? What kind of "tard" does that make you then? :) [HINT: This is a geek forum.]
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:1, Informative)
With apt-cache show
ej:
$apt-cache show kubuntu-desktop
Package: kubuntu-desktop ... ...
Priority: optional
Section: metapackages
Installed-Size: 44
Maintainer: Jonathan Riddell
Architecture: i386
Source: kubuntu-meta
Version: 1.75
Depends:
Recommends:
Filename: pool/main/k/kubuntu-meta/kubuntu-desktop_1.75_i386.deb
Size: 18440
MD5sum: 49fac831557253af404eca7f5dd5b521
SHA1: 0c013e50c769e5175024a2172f47bfa9284e97f0
SHA256: d5cf626d7be4330bc627a355afce5138f25ba5e0c8bf361864e4563cb9b741cf
Description: Kubuntu desktop system
This package depends on all of the packages in the Kubuntu desktop system
.
It is safe to remove this package if some of the desktop system packages are
not desired.
Bugs: mailto:ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com
Origin: Ubuntu
Task: kubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-desktop-kde
(The example is from kubuntu 8.04, but the fields section and/or description will probably contain the word "metapackage")
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:3, Informative)
Er, no. Read what apt says--it doesn't uninstall those packages, they're just marked as unnecessary and can be removed.
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:4, Informative)
Also, I hope you will ignore the trolls who give false answers or tell you to RTFM. They are full of crap, and you are to be commended for having the courage to ask such questions. The day you can't get a decent answer to a valid question on
This article is full of errors and bad advice (Score:5, Informative)
It's not Beta 2 of Lenny. Only the installation program is Beta 2. So that's a big mistake.
And the mistakes continue.
The advice to remove iceweasel and replace it with Firefox is crazy. Iceweasel is 99.99% Firefox, and the version that comes with Debian is optimised to use libraries and other software in the distribution (like spell check). If you follow the advice and use the mozilla version of firefox, you lose this integration.
Some sites "sniff" for browser type, and iceweasel is not detected as Firefox (wsj.com, google docs). This is easily fixed by going to about:config, searching for useragent, and changing "iceweasel" to "firefox".
All firefox extensions that I know of work with iceweasel.
To install acrobat reader, just add the http://www.debian-multimedia.org/ [debian-multimedia.org] repositories, and add the package acroread with Synaptic or apt-get.
Re:advice for upgrading a server? (Score:5, Informative)
Leave it alone and only apply the security updates. I have a server happily running sarge that I have no plans to change.
Ummm.. you know that sarge no longer gets security updates, right? :S (announcement [debian.org])
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:2, Informative)
You can use:
aptitude unmarkauto package-1 package-2 ...
on those other packages that you don't want to be mark as auto-installed.
Re:Iceweasel is named that way due to Mozilla (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Does what it says on the box (Score:3, Informative)
In general the desktop install tasks of debian (at least the default gnome one and the kde based one, not sure about the xfce one) do leave a rather bloated install.
If you are at all concerned about disk space it is usually a much better idea to install the base system and then add what you want on top of that yourself.
Girlfriend (Score:1, Informative)
Or maybe your boyfriend. Or just a friend.
Re:advice for upgrading a server? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:3, Informative)
Learn how to work 'equivs' - then you get your nifty metapackage that "provides" kdegames, which tricks "kde" into staying installed.
Equivs was made specifically to fix this "issue".
Re:Dependencies are annoying. (Score:2, Informative)
It is absolutely not a new concept in Debian, it's been in aptitude for ages now... the changelog says clearly:
[...]
aptitude (0.2.9-1) unstable; urgency=low
* New upstream release. Debian bug-related changes:
- aptitude now tracks automatically installed packages, similarly
to deborphan/debfoster. (Closes: #122726, #102205, #114464)
[...]
-- Daniel Burrows Sat, 9 Feb 2002 11:24:08 -0500
[...]
Re:This article is full of errors and bad advice (Score:3, Informative)
That's not entirely true, Iceweasel has some important changes that integrate it with Debian shared libraries. Theoretically this makes it smaller and faster, though I'd like to see some numbers comparing it.
But it can't call itself firefox because it isn't firefox. That would break some sort of IP. You can change that however, and the Mozilla foundation probably aren't going to come after you.
Re:This article is full of errors and bad advice (Score:3, Informative)
It is not Debian that prevent the use of the name Mozilla, you're blaming the wrong party.