Forgot your password?

typodupeerror
Linux Business Software The Almighty Buck Linux News

Wall Street Becoming a Linux Stronghold 214

Posted by Soulskill
from the quite-an-investment dept.
alphadogg recommends an article about the rise of Linux on Wall Street. We discussed the beginnings of this trend last year. From NetworkWorld: "Wall Street firms increasingly are buying into Linux, but some still need convincing that open source licensing and support models won't make using the technology more trouble than it's worth. Linux providers, speaking this week at the Securities Industry and Financial Markets Association conference in New York City, stated their cases that Wall Street firms have nothing to fear about diving into open source. Red Hat and Novell argued that's especially true now that specialized Real Time Linux has been developed that meets strict low-latency and messaging requirements of brokerages and trading firms."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Wall Street Becoming a Linux Stronghold

Comments Filter:
  • by DAharon (937864) on Friday June 13, 2008 @08:38PM (#23787353)
    While I don't doubt that moving some of their infrastructure to a Linux environment would yield nothing but gains for them, the fact remains that a ton of those guys are wedded to Excel. Many have spent years fine tuning massive VB macros.

    I have the same problem at my work. I want to automate and speed up a lot of the reporting my coworkers do by moving the processing over to one of our Linux servers, but Excel is always a problem. Some of our people actually see Excel as a platform in itself. It's become kind of a joke among some of us there. "Excel would make a great Operating System if only it had a decent spreadsheet."
    Some of our macros can take upwards of twenty minutes to run.

    I suppose they could use OpenOffice-server, and I've considered playing around with it, but it seems like too much unnecessary overhead. Right now I think I'm gonna give JExcelAPI a whirl as soon as I get a break in between projects.

  • by radish (98371) on Friday June 13, 2008 @08:50PM (#23787453) Homepage
    The move isn't from Windows to Linux but from Solaris to Linux. The desktop is, and will continue to be, Windows - so all those backoffice mega spreadsheets will continue to run fine. We're fighting a constant battle to replace them with real applications though - and whilst Solaris has been the server platform of choice for years it's being very quickly replaced by Linux. When I'm ordering machines for my apps these days all I'm allowed to buy are Linux/Intel servers - just a year ago most purchasing was Solaris/SPARC. We even have a _very_ large distributed compute farm which is all Linux. In my experience banks have never been fans of Windows in the server room and I don't really see that changing except for a few Windows specific apps (Exchange & Sharepoint being the big ones).

    And I'm sure different banks have different attitudes but we've been all about O/S for a long time now - we dumped WLS for Tomcat/JBoss years ago for example. The biggest hesitation was with Linux as an OS, and that was mainly due to friction from the SA community IMO. Eventually the cost savings (particularly when you dump SPARC) were just too much to ignore.
  • by willyhill (965620) <pr8wak AT gmail DOT com> on Friday June 13, 2008 @08:50PM (#23787457) Homepage Journal
    Wall Street has always been home to some of Sun's and IBM's largest corporate accounts. I don't doubt Linux and/or BSD can do the job that Solaris can in some cases (with caveats), but it will take years for that to happen. A "Linux stronghold" is misleading at best, TFA doesn't even support the claim.

    And Linux will never replace mainframes. Nothing will.

    At the risk of being modded troll, OO Calc will probably never replace Excel - other than Suns and big iron, corporate america runs on Microsoft Excel (not necessarily a good thing, but still).

    OTOH, I know companies that are still running their websites and outward-facing interface systems on hardware and software that could be easily replaced by off-the shelf open source stuff, which will probably save them a lot of money.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2008 @09:04PM (#23787587)
    The kind of use they're talking about isn't really about quants and their modeling. It's about transactional throughput, enterprise messaging, and the guaranteed delivery of various business events (along with the relevant data) to a wide variety of systems across front, mid, and back office domains within a very constrained time window.

    As for quants, they often like Linux for a completely seperate reason, specifically because they can use it for Shadow IT purposes without the IT department getting all pissy. Also, many of their favored math packages are old school C and they learned to use them in school on Linux so they tend to gravitate toward it in work as well.

    At least that's what I've seen over the last 10-20 years or so since quants have become all the rage.
  • I know IBM lets you run Linux on their virtualized z-series hardware, and they've been selling the solutions with some success. All that is well and good, but Visa's transaction processing systems don't run on Linux, and never will. More to the point, neither RedHat nor Novell doesn't sell mainframes, or versions of Linux that run on big iron.

    Try to read what you're replying to before making snarky comments.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2008 @09:10PM (#23787623)
    I work in a bank, and you'd be amazed at the amount of Windows servers that are run. The inter-bank network runs on Windows, all our public facing websites are IIS/MSSQL running on Windows servers. Internet Banking runs on IIS. Almost every internal application we use runs on Windows (except the ones that are so ancient that they predate NT4, and yes we have apps that run on NT4). All the new applications that are being developed certainly run on Windows servers.

    Of course, the actual central processing is not done on Windows, all the mission critical stuff is handled by other platforms, None of it is Linux, though. I'm fairly certain the only Linux servers that run are the ones IT support doesn't know about...
  • by djrok212 (801670) on Friday June 13, 2008 @09:21PM (#23787715)
    You are WAY off base here... Let's take a look at the major stock exchanges for example: NYSE ARCA = Linux based system NASDAQ = Linux based system BATS Trading = Linux based system Most of the big prop trading firms = Linux based systems On the back end, I'd say a good 50% of all electronically trades happen on Linux systems.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2008 @09:23PM (#23787733)
    There are investment bankers who still use Excel 97 to model, because they don't want to learn new menus/break old models. The idea of these people switching to OO is preposterous to anyone who knows them.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2008 @09:40PM (#23787861)

    And Linux will never replace mainframes.
    Considering one is an operating system and the other a type of hardware platform, I wouldn't expect Linux to replace mainframes...
  • by nurb432 (527695) on Friday June 13, 2008 @10:10PM (#23788053) Homepage Journal
    Actually, yes i have had to blame a vendor for a disaster.

    It was cause for us to switch vendors afterwards. Ironically, back to a Microsoft solution as it was less expensive and integrated with other components.
  • by BitButcher (1124605) on Friday June 13, 2008 @10:26PM (#23788161)

    The article includes a lot of confusion and/or FUD about licensing.

    "There's a great fear sometimes, that if I use open source, will I lose my intellectual property?" acknowledged Novell's Levy. Other panelists Randy Hergett, director of engineering for the Open Source and Linux Organizations at HP, and Marcus Rex, CTO at the Linux Foundation, sought to assuage those fears. "The current license for Linux requires you give back any changes you make to the open source community, but there's no way anyone can require those assurances and there's no way we'd know," Rex said.

    Someone needs to sit down with some of these people and explain to them what the GPL actually says. It doesn't require software written to run on Linux to be GPL'd. Even if you had some reason why you wanted to modify the Linux kernel itself (and why the hell would a Wall Street firm want to!?), you wouldn't need to GPL your modifications unless you were turning around and selling or distributing the modified version publicly.

    I work in one of the top 5 Wall Street Firms. Linux is our default OS and represents about 85% of our server deployments. I can tell you that we absolutely do contribute kernel modifications back to the community - the main reason being that when we find kernel bugs (and we do) we need them integrated back into a vendor supported kernel before we'll even consider deploying them into production.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 13, 2008 @11:08PM (#23788365)
    Don't look now but there is a pretty good chance that ARCA might be going to a windows server 2008 / sql 2008 platform. (posting AC since I am in fact a coward and don't need the inevitable troll mod but thought I'd let you know that WS is not exactly locked to linux)
  • by 19061969 (939279) on Friday June 13, 2008 @11:31PM (#23788495)
    I can vouch for that. Linux has been in Wall Street for a long time: it just sits there quietly working without fuss. For those interested, Morgan Stanley funded the development of a new language A+ [aplusdev.org] which is similar to APL. It's also GPLd.
  • by afidel (530433) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @12:36AM (#23788895)

    > code used within the company and never released Yeah, but what constitutes a software "release"? Hosting a public website with some GPL code linked on the back end may spell trouble. Passing out CDs containing marketing materials at a trade show may constitute a software "release". Not every company is a software company, and when your primary business is not creating software you may not be the most savvy about these sorts of things or have the strictest policies about what your developers, contractors, or consultants can inadvertently do. Custom software is a major driving factor in most businesses, and there's an understandable undercurrent of cautious distrust of the GPL when the consequences of the smallest touch could unintentionally taint a codebase.
    Uh, no neither of those cases fall under the GPL, both are examples of documents processed by the software which is explicitly called out as NOT being distribution of the software and hence not invoking the clause. It's not that complex of a document to read and understand (the typical commercial software contract is longer, much more obtuse, and definitely MUCH less friendly to the receiving party.) Please don't spread FUD, MS and company do it well enough without your help.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday June 14, 2008 @01:28AM (#23789201)
    Oh, hey, I'll chip in as an AC too, because I'm sure my boss reads Slashdot. I also work tech at a top five ibank; the desktop is *exclusively* XP, and all the task stuff is Linux (with a few odd ducks running FreeBSD and Solaris and what-have-you).

    I hate it, myself, I wish we could use a Linux dev environment, which is what I cut my teeth on. There's talk of letting developers do *something* like this, but the Winboxen are so deeply interlaced with compliance (apps you can't run, sites you can't visit, etc etc) that there's a sort of diluted fear of letting anyone use anything other than the traditional system.
  • by afabbro (33948) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @02:02AM (#23789391) Homepage

    I used to have a position where I met quarterly with most of the major Wall Street CTOs/CIOs. Every one of them was heavily involved in deploying Linux. You could sum up their reasons quite simply: commoditization yields cheaper computing.

    All of them were tired of being locked into the hardware that Solaris required (i.e., Sun's vertical stack), and paying Veritas Foundation Suite licensing on top of that. (I mean, come on, no big enterprise shop ever used Solaris Disk Suite as a standard!)

    Sure, today you can run Solaris on x86 more credibly and there's ZFS, but three years ago that was still vapor. Sun was too late with them.

    The writing on the wall for Sun's big servers has been there for some time. Sun could not afford to cannibalize its enterprise offerings by going whole-hog into Solaris x86, which is why it's always been the poor stepchild. In the meantime, Linux came along, reached maturity, and now anyone wanting to buy a Unixy system can let Dell, HP, IBM, Sun, etc. compete to deliver a cheap x86 box. There's no important differentiation between them, and very few people are buying giant Sun servers any more. Heck, Sun's big Lonestar supercomputer sale was commodity x86 running Linux.

    Linux deployments, at least in the sector I worked with, were mainly Unix replacements.

    Oh, and a couple responses to the above:

    • BTW, all of these shops also had huge mainframes. These are not going away any time in any of our lifetimes. I'm not exaggerating. More transactions run through COBOL on mainframes running z/OS in an hour than run through Google in a day. No one wants to mess with all of that.
    • The desktops? All Windows. Someone mentioned that firms still use Excel 97 - very true. No one wants to go through the work of porting the ridiculously massive macro and VBA code. Everyone I've known who worked on Wall Street says that Excel is so deeply ingrained that it's practically the Street's O/S.
  • by Jason Earl (1894) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @02:15AM (#23789439) Homepage Journal

    Microsoft, ironically, tends get these sorts of wins as well. After all, everyone has Microsoft software sitting around. It's almost as easy to get rolling on a skunkworks Microsoft project as it is to roll one out with Free Software.

    Well done dodging the vendor meltdown bullet, however. In my experience that basically never works. After all, it is pretty rare that a vendor can't point to other customers with successful implementations. Generally speaking when a customer has to flush a large investment down the tubes the guys that chose the tools and then were unable to implement the solution get run as well.

    Let's just say I'm not a firm believer in the "throat to choke" theory of choosing software.

    My real question for you is why did you move away from the less-expensive, integrated Microsoft solution that worked to something more expensive and less integrated. Nothing personal, but that doesn't sound like the sort of thing that any of the people I've ever worked for would blame on a vendor.

  • by IntlHarvester (11985) * on Saturday June 14, 2008 @05:00AM (#23790097) Journal
    Blaming the vendor really only works if you brought in an army of consultants first, and even then it reflects poorly on the management that brought them in.

    As a practical matter, I've noticed that IT tends to congregate around their vendors, so you'll have a Microsoft group and a Novell group and a Unix group and so on. People in these groups usually realize that they need to defend their vendor at all costs or the other groups will steal their budgets. So there's very little practical impetus to blame the vendor unless everything's really gone to hell.

    What vendors are really good for, politically, is stalling. "RedHat says this feature will be in the next version!", or "We've filed a bug!". But if you just downloaded it from the internet, you don't have this sort of cover.
  • by Britz (170620) on Saturday June 14, 2008 @08:34AM (#23790833) Homepage
    You said you find bugs and report them so they get integrated back into the kernel. Is that a specialty of OSS, or do you also get this with other proprietary products?

    as in

    -as easy to identify bugs
    -no problem contacting the right people (developers)
    -bugs getting fixed on a reasonable timescale

If two people love each other, there can be no happy end to it. -- Ernest Hemingway

Working...