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Wine 1.0-rc2 Released

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  • by Jeremiah Cornelius (137) * on Saturday May 24, 2008 @02:16PM (#23530332) Homepage Journal
    Spill the WINE and take that PERL.
  • by Shadow of Eternity (795165) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @02:16PM (#23530336)
    Kdawson appears to finally have posted something that is news, for nerds, and matters. I wonder who stole his password.
  • Sweet! (Score:3, Informative)

    by locokamil (850008) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @02:26PM (#23530414) Homepage
    Wait, wait, wait.

    Are you telling me that it is now possible to run Visual Studio 2005... IN LINUX?

    See ya, Windows! I won't be calling you again. Ever.
  • by Anonymous Coward
    Will it run on windows?
  • really getting good (Score:3, Informative)

    by oever (233119) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @02:52PM (#23530610) Homepage
    Even though using Wine for apps remains a hit and miss, I've had some very good experiences working with it. At work, I'm developing a closed source Delphi application. Even though the full Delphi 2007 development environment does not run in Wine, I can run the compiler and the resulting application which is very complex (lots of COM and OpenGL) runs for 95% in Wine. It's good to know that we can get this working if customers start asking for it.

  • If you want to help: (Score:5, Informative)

    by Daimanta (1140543) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @02:59PM (#23530662) Journal
    If you have a Windows installation

    Go to this page : http://test.winehq.org/data/3c1c6172779510a7ed693d922fb3061948999ea1/ [winehq.org]

    Click on the big alphanumerical hyperlink and download the exe.

    Give an alias and run it.

    This will do conformance tests on your computer and it is very important to the wine project.

    Don't try to do anything usefull while testing since it will do a wide range of things including directX tests which will make your screen display colorfields.

    If you get errors or crashes, just click on OK or close. This is part of the testing. I'm sure the people working on the wine project will be very happy with it.
    • Parent deserves to be modded up Informative!
      • by vax (251660)
        agreed.. thats what the wine movement really needs is to hammer the kinks out..

        man they have came a LONG way though.

        I remember when the most basic programs barely ran.. now I'm hearing the adobe suite is working..

        promising indeed!
        • by mrbluze (1034940)
          just a word of advice, if you suffer from epilepsy don't look at the computer while running the test!
          • by neomunk (913773)
            Cmon, I don't see why not. What's the worst that could go wronnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
    • by hansraj (458504) *
      Does it help wine project in any way if I run those tests with a windows installation running under a virtual machine?

      I would sure like to help by playing my little part and I also have a native windows installation on my laptop but I wouldn't want to boot into it unless I really need to :)
      • by Daimanta (1140543)
        To tell you the truth, I have no idea whatsoever. My personal guess is, that since it's a working XP installation it ought to work. If you try it anyway and it works I would like to hear the results.
        • by hansraj (458504) *
          Since you said you wanted to see the results I decided to reply to your post to inform you that I submitted it under the alias xp-virtualbox. Have a look ;-)
          • by Daimanta (1140543)
            Works fine, you don't seem to have an exceptional amount of errors or anything of that nature. I guess that means that virtual boxes allow conformance tests just fine. Thanks for trying :)
            • Submitted one "XpSp2Parallels" running in Parallels on OSX.

              What exactly is this testing, and what do the results mean?
              • What exactly is this testing, and what do the results mean?
                This page [gla.ac.uk] will answer that question. In short, the program performs tests to check for regressions in the Wine code.
              • Looking for a bit of advice.

                My wife is an architect. She has just started using CAD (Autodesk Revit). We were at the shop yesterday looking for a new windows box for her to use but she fell in love with an iMAC which was on display.

                I can get more RAM for the MAC, and parallels, but is it likely to be practical to run Revit on parallels? I know that it would be hopeless on vmware. She needs mouse interaction to be perfect.

                I am just looking for an indication of how fast windows runs in parallels.

                T
                • To be honest, I'm not sure what to tell you. Definitely load it up with as much ram as you can, if you decide to go this route!

                  Every day kind of windows things like running Internet Explorer are flawless and fast. I've had a little luck with some games, but performance is diminished. Since AutoCAD is graphical, I would imagine the answer is a big "it depends." It does seem like there are a number of google hits for Parallels and Revit,s you might have some luck reading forums etc.

                  Also (I'm sure you know thi
                • I use VMware Fusion regularly on Mac OS X, and do not have any problems with the mouse integration; both the trackpad on my MacBook Pro and any attached mice work as they should. Is there some reason that you feel this isn't the case?

                  From my experience, VMware Fusion (especially the latest 2.0 beta) seems superior to Parallels, and is more portable (e.g. if you want to use a virtual machine on a non-Mac OS, i.e. in VMware Player or Workstation). If you use the beta, be sure to turn off debugging for bet

                • by drsmithy (35869)

                  My wife is an architect. She has just started using CAD (Autodesk Revit). We were at the shop yesterday looking for a new windows box for her to use but she fell in love with an iMAC which was on display.

                  If she "fell in love" with it just because of the 'looks cool' factor, rather than OSX, then just install Windows on it...

                • by NtroP (649992)

                  Install it to a bootcamp partition. Then you can either boot directly to it or point your VMware at the partition and run it from OS X. That's what I do. I have not seen any mouse issues with the latest versions of VMware Fusion, BTW. This is the way we have all our Apple machines configured for people who need windows-only software - no problems to date.

                  With this configuration you can see if it runs acceptably in the virtualized environment, but if it doesn't you can always boot windows directly and r

                • BootCamp+winXP is probably your best bet, for the moment. Using a VM still needs a copy of Windows, and will be a bit slower. My father is one of the Revit developers (codes the geometric modeler) and I've tried running it under WINE. It fails, sadly. As others have pointed out VMWare Fusion has gotten better. As with any VM the problem is that the VM adds overhead. More RAM, more video ram, and a faster processor (or more cores) should mitigate those problems.
              • They're conformance tests, so they check the behaviour of various API calls to make sure that a) Windows does what it's supposed to, and b) Wine does what Windows does.

                The first point is significant because MSDN is wrong quite often, and the API often changes behaviour from one Windows version to the next. So the only way to find out what Wine should really be doing is to write conformance tests and run them everywhere you can.

    • by RichMan (8097)
      Up to date winXP with a few "standard" services disabled. Got an error or 2 then got BSOD'd.

      Is there a way to capture a report from this?
      • by Daimanta (1140543)
        I'm afraid you can't. At the end of the test, the program asks you if you want to submit the test data. Before that nothing happens unless you click abort and then send the results I believe.
      • Ditto
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by JoshJ (1009085)
      Posting here so I can find the link in my profile when I boot into windows. Please disregard.
    • by nschubach (922175)
      Nice link.. however... How do I know that's the latest build? Up top there is a link to go to the "Next Build" and it takes me to a new glob of numbers. How do we know we aren't giving them old data?

      I mean, if you keep going, the last one that has a meaningful date in it is: http://test.winehq.org/data/200805201000/ [winehq.org] from 4 days ago, I'm assuming.
    • by mentaldrano (674767) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @06:34PM (#23532238)

      If you have a Windows installation
      This is /. - almost everyone here runs Windows while secretly pretending to be a Linux guru.

      The people who do run Linux pretend to run *BSD, to maintain their elite status.

      No one actually runs *BSD except Theo de Raadt (he actually runs NetBSD, OpenBSD is a hoax) ~
      • by Yfrwlf (998822)
        I know your comment was a joke, but I just have to say I left Windows years ago and the only looking back I did was to consider if I wanted to run it just for playing a Windows game, then I quickly shook my head and fired up Wine. Even when Wine failed, I just couldn't bring myself back to the pain of installing Windows drivers again. Not that it was all that painful, but still, "just works" (usually) is so much nicer.

        Now if Linux would just adopt "third-party" program and driver installation standards
      • Which, if you're right, would mean I run Linux and Windows.
        Which, if you're right, would mean I run Windows and... euhm...
        What's below Windows on the evolutionary/social status ladder?
        Nothing, I guess :)
      • by m50d (797211)
        I know OpenBSD does exist. One morning after a night of heavy drinking and card games I woke up to discover I'd installed it.

        Now, if only I could duplicate the feat while sober.

    • What if the test generates an error in d3d9_test.exe, and reboots the PC shortly thereafter?

    • Well, that's interesting. I got a BSOD about 60% through the tests... not seen one of them in a while.
    • by jeremy_white (598942) * on Saturday May 24, 2008 @10:38PM (#23533419) Homepage
      If you have a Linux installation, then you can help with this:
      http://wiki.winehq.org/MakeTestFailures [winehq.org]
      and
      http://wiki.winehq.org/ConformanceTests [winehq.org]

      For those wondering where the latest data is: in http://test.winehq.org [winehq.org], click on the "Last Modified" column twice, that will bring the latest data to the top.

      Thanks to everyone who submitted data so far! We have enough reports for XP now, but any other version of Windows would be handy.

      Be sure to run this again when wine-1.0-rc3 comes out next week.

      Cheers,

      Jeremy

      • Does it help to run the tests on stock installs or should the OS have been used for some time and have a variety of applications installed? I can put together some machines with various versions of Windows to run these tests but they will be fresh installs. Does that help at all?
    • Are you interested in the Minidumps if the test causes a BSOD?
    • The test ddraw_test.exe dsurface crashes (BSOD) my laptop (Compaq 6710b running XP SP2). On my desktop the test suite also causes BSODs, but not always, and I'm not sure in the same test.
  • Catch 22 situation (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dr.Flake (601029) on Saturday May 24, 2008 @03:15PM (#23530800)
    Unfortunately,
    If you look at the AppDb you'll see a lot of apps still not working 100%. F.i. Graphpad prism disappointed me last week. Most of them don't work because of some minor glitz. Before you say, well fix it you stupid, repairing them would introduce new regressions.

    I think its mostly because of some "hacks" used by lazy/clever/performance programmer, but therefore very intolerant to a "windows-like" environment.

    I hope Wine will get to the point, where it's influence will force programmers to stick to the specifications, as his/her boss is asking:" but will it also run under Wine???".

    Ps. I hope the number of RC's will remain below 40.
    • by SanityInAnarchy (655584) <ninja@slaphack.com> on Saturday May 24, 2008 @07:06PM (#23532470) Journal

      I think its mostly because of some "hacks" used by lazy/clever/performance programmer, but therefore very intolerant to a "windows-like" environment.
      Do you have anything to back this up?

      Because Windows itself is incredibly hackish, especially when it comes to backwards compatibility. If Wine was simply striving to be a good Win32 implementation, they'd be pretty much done already -- someone developing an app, from the ground up, to be able to run on Windows and Wine shouldn't have too much more trouble than someone designing a web app, from the ground up, to run in IE and Firefox.

      But Wine strives for bug-for-bug compatibility. There are a lot of bugs in Windows, and a lot of apps depend on those bugs.

      I hope Wine will get to the point, where it's influence will force programmers to stick to the specifications, as his/her boss is asking:" but will it also run under Wine???".
      That assumes something else -- that Windows sticks to the specs. On top of all of the above, Windows doesn't stick to the specs.
      • Seconded.

        I'm reasonably familiar with the common syscalls in Linux, and usually when a question on its specific behavior comes up I RTFM and usually get the answer. I've been playing with Win32 a while ago, and the API simply feels like a mess to me. Maybe it's just because I'm a rookie, but whenever I have need a clarification on the (supposed) behavior I usually don't find it in the official docs, and I'd be lucky to find some "rumors"/"tips"/"tricks" from some "expert sites" that touches upon the issue.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 24, 2008 @03:31PM (#23530970)

    Bug fix 13343: Microsoft Office 2003 won't install
    Great! Finally, I can install Wine without worrying about accidentally installing Office 2003.

    Thanks, guys! Great work!
  • Does Wine work... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dargaud (518470) <[ten.duagradg] [ta] [2todhsals]> on Saturday May 24, 2008 @04:17PM (#23531278) Homepage
    I have tried Wine a few times without success and the documentation was sparse at the time. It has probably improved, but anyone cares to tell me:
    - can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ?
    - can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ?
    - what kind of programs won't work ? .NET ? ActiveX ? DirectX ?
    - Photophop ?
    - How much of a performance hit do you take ?
    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      -Yes, usually.
      -Yes, usually.
      -Specific programs don't work, not general categories.
      -Mostly. Go check out its entry on "appDB.winehq.org" for specifics.
      -Wine isn't an emulator. For programs that wine works properly with there is no performance hit.
    • So far, the only program I have really tried is DOD:Source, a Steam game. But based on this:
      -Running the installer worked
      -I had to fiddle with the WINE registry a bit, fortunately some forum explained how to do that
      -now DOD runs crash-free (since yesterday, RC1 still had a bug that made it crash)
      -yes, DirectX works (good enough to support the HL2 engine, but probably not 100% complete yet)
      -the performance hit is significant, so don't expect to run the very latest games on WINE yet
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Mad Merlin (837387)

        -the performance hit is significant, so don't expect to run the very latest games on WINE yet

        There's no inherent performance hit with using Wine, indeed many programs/games run at the same speed (or faster) than on Windows itself. The places where you see slowdown is typically where support is incomplete, possibly causing software fallbacks.

        • Well, DOD is slower under WINE. At least with the default settings of WINE. I have not researched the exact cause of the slowdown, so it could be any of the following:
          -The NVidia Linux drivers being inferior to the Windows ones (I'm running their closed source driver for Linux).
          -more overhead in the Xserver compared to the Windows DirectX API
          -overhead in WINE's translation from DirectX to OpenGL, including software fallbacks as you suggested.

          Obviously not all of those would be the fault of the WINE team, an
          • My guess here is that it's mostly going to be either the NVidia Linux drivers, or the DirectX-in-OpenGL implementation.

            The only games I've tried to get working under Wine lately are a small 2D MMO called Nexus TK, for which performance hardly matters (but it's nice to be able to force it into a window), and Warcraft III, which has some hidden OpenGL mode, and works flawlessly once you put it in that mode.

            For the most part, though, I have a few games that are worth booting into Windows for, and which I'll be
      • I'm going to guess that most of the performance hit here is in the DirectX implementation, though I'm not sure. Are recent OpenGL games slower under Wine?

        To take a much older example, Quake 3 Arena ran faster under Wine/Linux than it did under Windows 2000 (on the same machine), and the native Linux version was even faster than that. So any performance hit is really a particular implementation of Wine, combined with a particular app -- sometimes it's faster, sometimes it's slower, just like sometimes it wor
    • by pembo13 (770295)
      Simply going to the winehq site will give you most, if not all that information.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      - can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ?

      Yes, unless the installer tries to do something that wine doesn't support.

      - can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ?

      Yes. Wine keeps its own windows system directory and applications can put their junk anywhere on the virtual C drive.

      - what kind of programs won't work ? .NET ? ActiveX ? DirectX ?

      I tried to install a .NET program the other day and it failed at the very end with an error I didn't
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ACS Solver (1068112)
      From personal experience:

      - You can run a Windows installer, that's the normal way of installing software under Wine, in fact. Standard installers work fine most of the time.
      - You need to override some DLLs for some application - fortunately it's easily done through wineconfig, and the Wine App DB is helpful in specifying settings that improve the compatibility for a certain app. Generally, installers that want to put stuff into c:\windows aren't a problem as Wine maintains a virtual C: drive.
      - Some .NET app
      • by drspliff (652992)
        I've found the Photoshop support in the latest point releases to still have quite a few issues.

        Photoshop 7 is well supported and has been for a while.
        CS is well supported although there are a few quirks.
        CS2 works well enough to be usable, but activation is broken for numerous reasons (although a solution has been worked out).
        CS3 doesn't work at all.

        Considering I've spent a great deal of time and money on training and software, and regularly depend on the features of CS2 and CS3, only being able to use CS an
        • by edschurr (999028)
          Running Windows in a virtual machine and Photoshop CS3 on top of it might work. I have a dual-core Pentium D 2.8 Ghz and 4 GB of fast memory and am optimistic that I can get it running, well even, based on the anecdotes I've read. However I'm still comparing VMware, VirtualBox, Xen and QEMU and haven't tried anything yet.
          • by drspliff (652992)
            I've tried this and reguarly end up using Photoshop in VirtualBox and VMWare, but it's quite slow compared to Wine.
        • CS3 doesn't work at all.
          Windows users frequently have the same issue with CS3, so that's not saying much. ;)
    • by rts008 (812749)
      Best results for me with Kubuntu 7.10 and 8.04 have been to install WINE from the distro repository, then run wineconfig to *sort of like* get a combination of 'control panel' and 'device manager', set this up, then for example:
      I popped in an install cd for Fallout, navigated to the cd in Konqueror, right clicked on the 'setup.exe' file, selcted 'run with wine' and it was just like being on windows after that until I exited the finished install.
      To further the "Windows" experience, you can then go your appli
    • by mscdex (774392)
      As far as .NET support goes, I can attest that managed C++ (console) applications work for me under Wine as of the latest releases. This is important because it may be a long time before Mono is able to support managed C++ applications at all. But for pretty much all other cases, Mono is probably your better bet to get .NET code running. Especially with the recent announcement with regards to WinForms 2.0 support.
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      - can you run a windows installer and then run the installed program ?

      Integration is fairly good, for a single user. With the standard Ubuntu Wine package, you can double-click on EXEs to run them. Installers work fine, and at least on Kubuntu, they can install working shortcuts to your desktop, and the Windows start menu is under the K-menu, under "Wine" (so I can go K->Wine->Programs->Accessories->Notepad, for example).

      - can you do this also if the installer puts some dlls in the windows system directory ?

      Wine lives in ~/.wine, with a fake C drive at ~/.wine/drive_c (by default). So I don't really see any reason this wouldn't work -- the DLL woul

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Bambi Dee (611786)

        With the standard Ubuntu Wine package, you can double-click on EXEs to run them.

        This hasn't been working for a while now. Konqueror shows .EXEs as Windows Executables... fine. Wine Windows Emulator is that filetype's Preferred Application... fine. And they run just fine from the context menu, too! Just not with a double-click. Dumps this in the console (for example): "run-detectors: unable to find an interpreter for /mnt/windows/Programme/firefox/firefox.exe"... as though I'd tried to directly run just

        • by ch0ad (1127549)
          perhaps with kubuntu... but i am running ubuntu and just downloaded firefox; double clicking the download in ff's download manager launched the installer and so did double clicking the exe from the file manager.
        • I've got no idea what's causing your problems, or if Dolphin would be any better.

          I generally run installers from the commandline, but once installed, it even seems to keep track of things like WINEPREFIX -- and those "Start Menu" entries did work, last I tried.
          • by Bambi Dee (611786)
            I've not run any Windows "setup.exe" type things with this Wine installation yet (I have a lot of stuff on an existing Windows installation that runs ok with Wine without first installing it into ~/.wine/drive_c/...); it's Konqueror's refusal to run double-clicked .EXEs with the "wine" command that confuses me...
    • Most of the time i use WINE to run games and windows-only emulators. For serious work, I use linux or cross-platform apps.
    • by RichMan (8097)
      I run World of Warcraft.

      - installer runs
      - C:\Program_Files C:\.. all exist fake hierarchy
      - very little performance hit some things are faster
    • I run Photoshop and Guild Wars under Wine on UbuntuStudio.

      Guild Wars has no anti-alias under Wine, and consequently the performance is better than on Windows. I've seen a few graphical glitches, but they're nowhere near as bad as under Cedega.
  • It seems like incremental reporting would be useful here. If everyone stops sending reports starting at test #5, they can be reasonably sure that test #5 is crashing.
  • Several error msgs from windows,didn't send info. Should have for the heck of it. Said it uploaded test results. Completed with no desktop icons, background ok. Rebooted from task manager. Icons rearranged. Searched for new hardware. Sound drivers? Killed firefox. Had to download with IE and reinstall. Hope the test helped.
  • I'm wondering if it'll run The Sims 2.... That's the only thing that my girlfriend misses about Windows.

    Regardless, WINE is an amazing project.

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